The following was a comment left on the "Dave Pack's Pristine Record Of Perfect Failures" posting. I think deserves its own post because of how well it sums up how the COGhas reached the point it is at today..
The1950s were an exciting time to be alive. So many new products and trends were being launched. TVwas a new phenomenon, and very exciting. The cars had new powerful engines and two tone paint jobs were optional. Teenagers were being recognized as a separate demographic as opposed to being merely extensions of their parents. Music, movies, television and clothing styles reflected this. Rock music became the sound track for teenage life. Most families attended church, and there were points of connection between public schools and local community churches.
There was also something very new about Herbert W. Armstrong's amalgamation of doctrines and message. He began coming into his own when the FCC mandated that small local AM radio stations cease broadcasting at sunset each day, opening up frequencies for big 50,000 watt "clear channel" stations, and The World Tomorrow program was carried on some of these stations. How effective were these stations? Well, a teenager in Philadelphia, on a 6 transistor radio, could pick up WABC New York, WBZ Boston, WLS Chicago, or CKLW Windsor Ontario, from about 9:00 PM until he fell asleep on it. The "Radio" Church of God was aptly named. Members were largely scattered across the USA, and ministered to via radio. When we went to Texas for our first Feast of Tabernacles, held in the new corrugated steel building in 1958, it was the stuff dreams were made of. None of the kids at school had such an opportunity, and with over 5,000 people attending, most people of that era were not accustomed to gatherings of that size. In 1959, we flew.
Nobody at the time was preaching a message like HWA was. There was interest and rapid growth. We had no local churches in the East. A church in Pittsburgh was raised up, iirc, in 1959, followed later by New York City, but they were only viable for us for occasional trips, and the holy days. Without a local church, it really was not an organized thing for us, and we had no exposure to church government. As we started to be able to attend church more, and our parents met and spoke with the parents of children our ages, they began really zealously applying what was in the child rearing booklet, wrecking my whole concept of family, and we suddenly needed all manner of special exceptions at school, turning us pretty much into pariahs. One thing was definitely universal, and that was the belief that we'd be going to Petra in 1972, and Jesus would return in 1975. That's where Dave Pack learned his shtick. The only way in which he is different is that he doesn't just make one false prophecy and backpedal. He makes them repeatedly!
As 1975 approached, field ministers were requesting that some of the doctrines be reviewed. Divorce and remarriage beliefs had caused much hardship when viable families were split up. People were dying from ailments treatable by doctors. Loma Armstrong was one of them, her death being a profound shock to members. Farmers lost their farms due to keeping land sabbaths. And, it was looking like 1975 was going to be a nonevent. When it was, the ministers backpedaled and lied, saying the church had never set dates, but they had indeed done exactly that. Some of the more scholarly members began doing their own studies, which is what we should have all done at the beginning, instead of simply memorizing the materials in the Correspondence Course. Their research exposed huge problems with the doctrines.
There are probably people who see the sad state of the splinters today and wonder how the Armstrong empire got into its current mess. The Tkaches get blamed for so much, but the leaders of the splinters are most certainly responsible as well. Some ask what if Garner Ted had not been the spiritual equivalent of an Eddie Haskell. But, the seeds were sown by false prophecy, which failed, and apparently nobody has learned any lessons from that. The false prophecy may have fit the zeitgeist of 1955-1970. Time and date stamp of Armstrongism expired shortly thereafter.
26 comments:
Most ACOG members today have no concept of just how important Loma Armstrong was to the Radio Church of God. On the one hand, she was a fanatic and true believer, far more so than her husband. But on the other hand she was a sincere and loving person, again far more so than her husband. People understandably doubt whether Herbert believed a lot or a little of what he imposed on his church members, but nobody ever questioned the simplicity and fervor of Loma's belief. People often blame "the church" or HWA for her death, but I believe the truth is far sadder than that. She saw how, during the 1960s, her church had become a nest of cynical power-seeking men who thought it might be OK to have donuts and coffee on Atonement "because reasons" or who would (like her son GTA) openly brainstorm the prospect of cancelling the Feast of Tabernacles one year and daring to ask the members to send their entire second tithe to Headquarters. She and her church had extreme beliefs from the beginning, but it took a couple of decades for the Radio Church of God to grow into a full-scale destructive cult with wolves and deceivers in top roles. When God gave Loma the opportunity to die, I believe she had no desire to fight it.
I have heard the same said about Barbara Flurry. PCG was always extreme, from its beginning. But it was really only after Barbara Flurry died that the most blatant wolves and deceivers took control. While Mrs. Flurry was alive, it seemed like the top PCG men genuinely believed what they were teaching. She and Helen Amos, along with John Amos who died early in PCG, in 1993, formed a core of decency that kept Gerald in check. But after Mrs. Flurry's death in 2004, with the rise of new men and the corruption of some old ones, it became obvious that several of the top leaders did not believe or act on what they taught.
Loma Armstrong and Barbara Flurry influenced their husbands toward a "family" model of church government. Paternalistic and infantilizing, perhaps, but nevertheless a family. It was only after their deaths that their husbands fully embraced the Stalinist model of church government to replace the old family model, with church members reduced to being replaceable pawns on a chessboard instead of being seen as beloved children.
Thanks for giving my comment the extra exposure of a headliner.
Everyone acknowledges that prophecy was HWA's "hook", the thing that drew people into his church. Once that failed, despite all efforts to mute the results of the failure, even their varied attempts with new hooks, the handwriting was on the wall. All that any of us have is our credibility. Reality is that HWA lost his in 1975. Dave Pack, and Gerald Flurry should take note of that. Bob Thiel, the prophet who never prophesies, obviously does know it, although he loses credibility just by calling himself a prophet!
And it's even worse: Bob Thiel calling himself the ONLY prophet today.
Virtually 100% of the stuff HWA added to the COG 7th Day base that he started with, has turned out to either "not work" or was false.
BTW - HWA did NOT invent the idea of keeping Holy Days, as several in the pre HWA era kept those in COG 7. HWA's church government ideas, US/BC , prophecy interpretations, financial abuses, TOP DOWN church govt, all have proven to be "off".
GTA as Eddie Haskell? No! He was more of a Hunter Biden or Eric Trump, milking his father's name for a career even while dirtying his father's name.
You may be right, 12:00.
Here's another thing to think about. With all that has been exposed about HWA's flawed research techniques, his reliance upon questionable sources such as Hislop and Velikovski, his explanation of gaps or conflicts utilizing conspiracy theories when he had no evidence, and his blatant usage of proof texting, how did he somehow get past bias confirmation when doing his intense 6 month study in the Portland Library?
Are we actually supposed to believe that he was objective and overcame his biases to arrive at the proper conclusions in that library, and then somehow lapsed into questionable research techniques for the rest of his life? To hear him tell it, he had been dead set against Loma's crazy ideas, and his intention was to prove her wrong. You really can't have stronger bias than that, but he did a 180 on his entire line of thinking.
But then, for the rest of his life, and the lives of his researchers, they were very disingenuous in their research, setting aside evidence that countered their conclusions, pulling quotes from context to make them say the opposite of what the authors intended, using quotes of quotes of quotes rather than going back to the primary sources, and shouting down and disfellowshipping people who had caught them.
I have a difficult time believing his methodology changed. Such methods run very deep! His later methods, which we now know, call into question every bit of research in which he was ever involved.
This is about as easy to answer as it is falling off of a horse.
25But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
And so it has been amongst all of the ministry. They exercise dominion over one another, and the children of God. When you do not follow the instructions of the master, the plan will always fall apart.
False prophecy did not kill Herbert. It was the Web. After all, false prophecy has been going on since the OT was written. Take the book of Daniel for example.
Correct Truth 4:03,
They have the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes (by by J. H. Allen)
The name, Nicolaitanes, is a compound word which is composed of three Greek words. Nikos is defined as "a conquest; victory; triumph; the conquered; and by implication, dominancy over the defeated." Another transferred name in which this term is used is "Nicopolis," i.e., Niko - conquest; polis city. Hence, the city of conquest, or city of victory.
The second term used in the name under consideration is "laos," -- people, another use of which is Nicolas, which is transferred and is composed of Nikoslaos and means one who is "victorious over the people," Thus, in the name Laodiceans, we have laos -- "people" and dice judgment, or vengeance, i.e., the people of my judgment, or of my vengeance. Also the Greek word la(ic)os means "laymen," of which laos is the root and stem, which selfsame word, with the "o" short contracted to "i", to which root and stem the plural definite article ton is joined to form laiton -- is a Greek phrase meaning "the laity."
The third and last word entering into the construction of the proper name Nicolaitanes is ton, in which omega, the long "o", is contracted into long "a", thus making the word "tan" which is the genitive case plural in all the genders of the definite article the.
Nicolaitanes, the full meaning of which, in its native tongue and in its ecclesiastical setting, is that the bishops and prelates of the Church have gained a triumphal victory or conquest over the laiton -- the laity -- until they have been compelled to submit to the arbitrary dominion of men who have become that thing which God hates: "Lords over God's heritage."
In the book of the revelation of Jesus Christ, it is both "the deeds" and "the doctrine" of those in the two "churches" specified (Revelation 2:6, 15). The Lord demands repentance on the part of those who hold and practice these things and He threatens drastic punishment if they do not obey Him:
"Dirtying his father's name?!" HWA dirtied his own name years before GTA ever came on the scene. His drinking, his incesting of Dorothy, his financial shenanigans were well known to some COG 7th Day members back in the 30's and 40's. As far as GTA doing his father dirt, Herbert allowed him to run riot for years, until his misconduct could no longer be hushed up.
4.03
Exactly. HWA ran his church like North Korea. It was The Church of Borg. Members were stripped of their adulthood and treated like literal children. Most contemporary churches do the same, but HWA knew that such narcissistic devaluation and lording it over the flock is unbiblical. Members were robbed of their ability to mature, and as to be expected, the church collapsed on his death.
Herb's basic problem was that he chose to follow the SDA and COG7 etc, rather than God.
Herb's boasting to his friends and family that he will be number three in the kingdom is laughable.
The main problem is some of their ministers. PCG and RCG is full of them. Others are a lot better such as CGI and CGG.
But even UCG has its dictators and one of them with a horror track record is Darris McNeely. Anyone with knowledge of what he has done please post here so that we can report him to the authorities.
This post's question is as much out of touch as Dave Pack.
The never was an Armstrong empire, not really. Only corruption, weak men's ego's, vanity and mafia style bullying pushed an 'royal' agenda. As soon as the money dried up so did the 'empire'.
Garner Ted was too weak and spolit to be able to sacrifice his weak character for the benefit of the church as a whole. Garner Ted followed with great flourish the steady walk towards apostasy during the 80s and 90s.
The Armstrongs Herbert and Garner Ted's life experience during the great depression era formed and haunted them both in life.
Correct 4:03,
They have the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes (by by J. H. Allen)
The name, Nicolaitanes, is a compound word which is composed of three Greek words. Nikos is defined as "a conquest; victory; triumph; the conquered; and by implication, dominancy over the defeated." Another transferred name in which this term is used is "Nicopolis," i.e., Niko - conquest; polis city. Hence, the city of conquest, or city of victory.
The second term used in the name under consideration is "laos," -- people, another use of which is Nicolas, which is transferred and is composed of Nikoslaos and means one who is "victorious over the people," Thus, in the name Laodiceans, we have laos -- "people" and dice judgment, or vengeance, i.e., the people of my judgment, or of my vengeance. Also the Greek word la(ic)os means "laymen," of which laos is the root and stem, which selfsame word, with the "o" short contracted to "i", to which root and stem the plural definite article ton is joined to form laiton -- is a Greek phrase meaning "the laity."
The third and last word entering into the construction of the proper name Nicolaitanes is ton, in which omega, the long "o", is contracted into long "a", thus making the word "tan" which is the genitive case plural in all the genders of the definite article the.
Nicolaitanes, the full meaning of which, in its native tongue and in its ecclesiastical setting, is that the bishops and prelates of the Church have gained a triumphal victory or conquest over the laiton -- the laity -- until they have been compelled to submit to the arbitrary dominion of men who have become that thing which God hates: "Lords over God's heritage."
In the book of the revelation of Jesus Christ, it is both "the deeds" and "the doctrine" of those in the two "churches" specified (Revelation 2:6, 15). The Lord demands repentance on the part of those who hold and practice these things and He threatens drastic punishment if they do not obey Him:
That is a lot of speculation based on a single term!
"The (sic) never was an Armstrong Empire, not really."
I don't know then, what you would call a global operation with three opulent colleges, a layer of government with laws kept by its participants, officials with rank and authority, including an emperor/ambassador who met with high ranking officials of other kingdoms and nations, a financial system based on the collection of de facto taxes, its own culture, including elements of music, art, and attire, its own media, a guiding philosophy, and provisions for dealing with citizens who rejected or broke the laws.
What element of an empire is missing?
Dave Pack has largely imitated the empire building techniques of HWA, badly exaggerating some of the worst aspects, but his operation is more similar to a banana republic colony than an actual empire. I also liken RCG to one of the 'baby Bells" which emerged following the break up of the Bell Telephone monopoly. Obviously, there is and was corruption in both WCG and RCG, but that is found in every human government throughout the history of mankind.
The question is not coo coo for Cocoa Puffs like Dave Pack. Not even close.
Nicholas means "Victory OF the people", not "one who is 'victorious over the people'".
I guess next year is 30 years after "The Christmas Eve Sermon"?
I'm original commentator. No the was never an Armstrong empire. God did not allow it to go on.
Too many baby boomers look back with rose tinted glasses at what ORDINARY workers TITHES TO GOD paid for. Many ordinary little people gave far more finances than required by God.
Herbert Armstrong was a evangelist who's experience in the great depression came back to ruin an "empire". His love of opulence and high society.
Did Herbert not think God himself would bring the orgy of corruption to a HALT? Maybe Garner Ted knew no different, he'd lived in opulence far longer than the tough 1930s.
I believe God is also bringing yo a HALT the milder corruption of today's ministry across all cog splinter groups.
Worldwide was really doomed to failure because it was really built on the idolization of HWA & the exaltation of certain personalities in leadership. There were really no checks & balances plus HWA was incredibly selfish and had no regard for the lay membership. Christ was de-emphasized and somehow it became focused on a FALSE gospel on the "Government of God" and church government.
And that church government went into so many branches and splinters. So much for church government.
The is not enough sheeple for the overlords to dominate successfully anymore. God has cut the easy supply off. God has also scattered the sheep which is a protection for the sheep in itself.
Desperate times for corrupt dominating ones, only going to get more desperate. All that is left is mindless gossip which is a shadow of the dominance AC one once had over the members.
God is good. He's bringing his sheep to only look to him.
The WCG fell victim to the lack of succession planning. When HWA I died, there was no HWA II to take his place. HWA I kept succession planning out of the picture. You had Waterhouse saying he would not die as long as the Work had to be done. That kind of thing.
With no HWA II, it was inevitable that fracture would occur after the death of HWA I. And fracture creates political divisions and destroys economies of scale. Had there been an HWA II, we would probably be seeing business as usual now. But autocrats cannot see themselves ever being replaced and consequently regard succession planning as a palace revolution. And some even, whose name I will not mention, if they cannot be Leader for Life, want to destroy that government that legally rejects them. I think HWA I probably anticipated that the WCG would fragment after his death. This should have placed impetus behind the grooming of an HWA II but it did not. Go figure.
Krischan
But your theory leaves out the fact many members found Herbert's ego had run away with itself. Only fresh newbies would worship Herbert at the AC alter.
Krischan
That's like like saying that the only problem with the former Soviet Union was that that they didn't groom a Stalin 2, Stalin 3, Stalin 4 etc.
Your comment says heaps about your character.
Err, perhaps the Nazis should have groomed a Hitler 2, Hitler 3 etc.
HWA groomed his son. As an AC student in the '60s, I heard excerpts from early tapes of the World Tomorrow program made by GTA, and some of the students who preceded him in their arrival at Ambassador College. Rod Meredith was one of those so entrusted, but memory of the others has faded with time. GTA's voice on those tapes was nothing like the deep authoritative professional broadcaster's voice for which we knew him. The tapes told the tale. GTA had obviously worked very hard on his voice and presentation, while Rod and the others still sounded the same. GTA's voice was just as signature as Jeff Beck or Jimmie Page's guitar playing. Instantly recognizable.
HWA needed GTA. The public face which GTA displayed in church circles indicated that HWA had been very successful in cloning himself. I categorically disagree with HWA on nearly everything. But, if we can all place ourselves inside of his head during the late 1960s and 1970s, we begin to see the mountain of problems with which he was confronted. His wife, a lifelong inspiration and source of wisdom, died. Those words have been said many times to describe their relationship, but anyone who saw them taking walks on the AC Pasadena campus in the early evenings, still holding hands as senior citizens, realized that the relationship they shared was real.
At this same time, or shortly thereafter, HWA began to understand that his surviving son, the one whom he had carefully groomed as his successor, was living a dual lifestyle. A lifestyle that plainly violated the qualifications of a bishop enumerated by Paul to Timothy. This had such far-reaching implications that HWA at first sat on it for a while, then took punitive action, and then reinstated his son only to find out that he had offended once again, quite flagrantly. In the end, the events, peeling like the layers of an onion, took out his only viable successor.
It was also becoming very obvious at that time that the conditions which would lead to HWA's prophetic scenario for 1972-75 were not emerging. Nothing like them, in fact. This took out the hook of his ministry, the very thing that made listeners and readers fear for their physical and eternal lives, and therefore turn to his church, dedicating their lives and finances to the only solution that he depicted as possible.
Some have said that HWA left his own church. But what we can know is that he was an older man, no longer in his prime, who withdrew into a role as ambassador without portfolio (My, how he always fixated on certain words), and into a marriage which would once have been forbidden to his members, not to mention his divorce, All became terminal at that point. His drive, his explosive temper, and the plan and players he had set up had been the only things controlling and sustaining the empire.
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