1 O come, O come, Immanuel,
and ransom captive Israel
that mourns in lonely exile here
until the Son of God appear.
Refrain:
Rejoice! Rejoice! Immanuel
shall come to you, O Israel.
2 O come, O Wisdom from on high,
who ordered all things mightily;
to us the path of knowledge show
and teach us in its ways to go. Refrain
3 O come, O come, great Lord of might,
who to your tribes on Sinai's height
in ancient times did give the law
in cloud and majesty and awe. Refrain
4 O come, O Branch of Jesse's stem,
unto your own and rescue them!
From depths of hell your people save,
and give them victory o'er the grave. Refrain
5 O come, O Key of David, come
and open wide our heavenly home.
Make safe for us the heavenward road
and bar the way to death's abode. Refrain
6 O come, O Bright and Morning Star,
and bring us comfort from afar!
Dispel the shadows of the night
and turn our darkness into light. Refrain
7 O come, O King of nations, bind
in one the hearts of all mankind.
Bid all our sad divisions cease
and be yourself our King of Peace. Refrain
Psalter Hymnal (Gray)
18 comments:
The Jews SINNED big-time, so God divorced them. Then he set up the Christian church to replace the race based (i.e. racist) OT church with a totally new people, a new covenant, and a new institution. Even worse, the Jews REJECTED Jesus. The CHURCH is now the chosen people (not the Jews). Yet many "Christians" seem to think the Jews are still the chosen people. In doing so, they rejecting their own place in God's plan. The stupidity is beyond belief. Only brain-washing can explain it.
Anonymous 6:51
You’re not serious are you? You’re just spoofing us, right? You’re a troll stirring up a little Christmas trouble right? Are you a lurking anti-Semite?
You need to read Romans 11. How could you have missed Romans 11? Paul starts like this:
“I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew…”
The NT church has not replaced the Jews. We are the wild olive branches that have been grafted onto the Jewish tree. Gentiles, on the road to salvation, become spiritual Jews. And Jesus said:
“You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.”
Scout
to 6:51 on the 24th. You are suggesting that "Replacement" theology is correct but it is wrong. The Church did not replace Israel... their future is still in the plans of God the Father.The Jews are still important to God and helped by Him.
I am NOT rejecting my place in God's plan. You logic is flawed. You are limiting God; He has the capacity to care for the Church and the current non-religious Jews. Many of them will turn to him later with great weeping and repentance.
Physical Jews cannot be spiritual Jews unless they become Christians. That's because the church replaced the physical Jews as the chosen people.
Salvation is only for the SPIRITUAL Jews. I.e. Christians.
There are some obviously good things on this website that point out the evil of Herbert Armstrong and his church and all the offshoots that are like that if not in all points, but in numerous ways that are wrong according to what the scriptures say and mean.
Switching to xmas which is obviously known from even a scholarly standpoint to be created from other non-biblical religions is like these forms of Armstrongism and that is stupid is as stupid does.
This site should continue to expose the evil of Armstrong and the offshoots. However, rejecting the truth that is in scripture because Armstrong taught it and so everything ever said by that organization and the offshoots that actually do understand some things correctly makes no sense whatsoever.
There is no way that anyone can prove that the seventh day Sabbath has been done away with in scripture. There is no feeling that makes non-scriptural beliefs true and there’s not going to be. It is simply true because you can read the Bible from front to back and see that it has never been changed.
The Catholic Church admits that it changed it on its own and tells protestants. All you have to do is search the nternet for The Christian Sabbath (1893) from
The Catholic Mirror Publishers. This is way before Herbie’s so called ministry.
Armstrong’s wrong teaching and wrong doing is like Lonnie / Miller, who believes love your neighbor as yourself as all encompassing and takes care of everything, but he still will not address the fact that two men, for instance, involved in a same-sex relationship are not loving each other as themselves as instructed by scripture. Ole Lonnie will not do this simply because if the directives related to intimate relationships are accepted as being true, that intimate relationships are only for certain people, then that automatically makes what he says about love your neighbor as yourself being all encompassing when it comes to directions for humans in relation to other humans wrong. He does not want to add other things that are true so he ignores the conundrum with comments that he has expressed his feelings on same sexual relationships before. Any logical person knows that that attitude won’t cut it because feelings do not matter. What matters is what the creator of the universe directs humans to do.
Unfortunately, stupid stuff like xmas is what this site ends up promoting because they reject everything that Armstrong ever said. Armstrong did understand some things correctly from the scripture. That being said, that does not mean that they actually practiced it correctly or that offshoots do now. In fact, they do not in many cases.
That does not make the world (e. g. stupid stuff - first day of the week couple of hours and celebrations like xmas and easter) any better.
Again, it is another example of stupid is as stupid does.
NO2HWA, why don’t you push response against the evil wrongdoing of the Armstrong ism assemblies and at the same time, do the same thing with stupid things that catholics and protestants do as well as non-religious people who promote things like same-sex relationships.
Anon 6:51:30 PM PST
Oh dear, listen bro, don’t know what you are smoking but get rid of it. Whatever it is, it has clouded ya ability to think. Seriously I think ya just taking the mickey out of us all and those Xmas wines have taken effect. Talk about brainwashing and stupidity. Which of the Armstrong offspring do you belong to?
Did Jesus not say to his disciples that they did not choose him but he chose them? So Christians are CHOSEN. He did not choose the Rabbis.
You want to be one of the called, and CHOSEN, and faithful. Isn't that what it says? Was he referring to unconverted Jews? Hell no. They must convert to CHRIST (Christianity) to be CHOSEN (the chosen ones) in this era (after His coming 2000 year ago).
10.35 states all we need do is ''.. search the internet for The Christian Sabbath (1893) from The Catholic Mirror Publishers.
This is an article which advocates sabbath keeping and it goes back to Mt Sinai ( Genesis too) to begin to build the polemic. It states:
''With the example of the Israelites before our eyes to-day, there is no historical fact better established than that referred to, viz : that the chosen people of God, the guardians of the Old Testament, the living representatives of the only Divine religion hitherto, had for a period of 1490 years anterior to Christianity, pre¬ served by weekly practice the living tradition of the correct interpretation of the special day of the week, Saturday, to be kept “holy to the Lord, which tradition they have extended by their practice to an additional period of 1893 years more, thus covering the full extent of the Christian dispensation''. (Having stated the event at Sinai was AM 2514).
All one has to do is to extend ones reading to works of Jewish scholars who inform us how the laws the given to Adam made no requirement for Man to sanctify the day - This God did on His own; then we are informed regarding Noah and Abraham likewise the laws then made no requirement of sabbath keeping.
They Jewish scholars show how sabbath it is not mentioned within any of these earlier laws prior to Mt Sinai.
What becomes a commandment is most carefully considered in the Jewish teachings - examining context and words most carefully. This is how they derive the 613 commandments applicable to Jews.
Jews teach the Sabbath was given through Moses to the Israelite people. Sabbath as a law came into existence at Mt Sinai. It was a sign of the covenant between God and those Israelite people, including circumcision.
Unsurprisingly, Jews who became believers in the early church kept sabbath.
The 1893 article presents no more than one would read from any number of similar advocates.
Not sure what to make of the statement ''This is way before Herbie’s so called ministry.''- it's as if this gives the arguments special authority? Yes, sabbath arguments were around well before Armstrong.
Anonymous 9:44 wrote, "Physical Jews cannot be spiritual Jews unless they become Christians. That's because the church replaced the physical Jews as the chosen people."
Jews do not have to become "spiritual Jews." They are already Jews. They must only become spiritual.
Gentiles have to become spiritual Jews. They must be grafted into the olive tree. Jews do not need to be grafted into the olive tree. They are already there. Paul said the following to the Gentiles:
"...remember that you were at that time without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world."
The Jews were not strangers to the covenants of promise as the Gentiles were. Jews have not been replaced by Gentiles who are now spiritual Jews.
As far as being Chosen is concerned, all Christians were elect in Christ before the foundation of the Cosmos. But the process for Gentiles is different from the process for Jews.
Scout
Anonymous 10:35 wrote, “Switching to xmas which is obviously known from even a scholarly standpoint to be created from other non-biblical religions is like these forms of Armstrongism and that is stupid is as stupid does.”
For me, the fact that Christmas does not carry forward the pagan belief or spiritual content of some of its ancient sources makes it an acceptable Christian holiday. I now observe Christmas and I assure that nothing of the ancient pagan yule ceremony has seeped into my celebration. I don’t pour wine on a yule log, bless it and then burn it in honor of the lengthening days of the returning sun.
I used to attend a WCG congregation where a group of people did not wear wedding rings. Wedding rings are of ancient pre-Christian origin. Their earliest use was around 4800 BC in Egypt. But I don’t know of anyone now who uses the rings as an invocation of ancient Egyptian animism.
On the other hand, if you are not convinced that Christmas and wedding rings are all right, I believe you should avoid involvement with this customs. But I also believe that you do not have the right to impose your personal views on others.
Scout
Jesus said he was the vine and his followers (Christians) were the branches. That stuff about grafting Christians in to a Jewish tree just shows that the Bible has some nonsense in it. Chock it up to another scientific error in the Bible.
People who are against "imposing" their personal views on others should follow their own rhetoric and stop writing about religion.
Yeah, except for the fact that we're kind of a self-help or support group here, helping each other deal with and recover from a deadly, toxic cult. If you don't like that, perhaps this is not the discussion group for you.
Anonymous 5:35 wrote, "People who are against "imposing" their personal views on others should follow their own rhetoric and stop writing about religion."
I believe there is nothing wrong with debate and analysis on theological topics. Midrash is a long tradition among Jewish scholars. Christian theologians engage one another in rational debate all the time. Iron sharpens iron. By "imposition" I mean an gratuitous and ad hominem declaration that lacks logical foundation. An example is the writer here who seems to have a predilection for calling others "stupid." That is someone to blatantly impose a belief rather than logically debate a belief. I know that flawed approach is popular in the USA now because of the influence of "you know who" but it doesn't fly with me.
Scout
Scout
People can believe that they can do whatever they want regarding the sabbath, as is being promoted in the comments of this thread. People’s opinions and proofs such as comments by Jews are simply that.
None of that changes what is clearly stated in the scriptures about the sabbath along with the other commandments that aren’t going away until heaven and earth pass and all has been fulfilled which no matter how you put it or try to explain it has not happened yet.
If people want to observe xmas, they can believe that they are worshiping the creator just like some who believe they are worshiping when they engage in their belief and go to church, etc.even though they engage in same-sex relationships.
It is clearly evident here that they will not provide specific references in scripture to show things like how the seventh day sabbath has been dismissed. They do not because they cannot because it did not happen and it was not stated that it happened. Additionally, they cannot provide information on how one can understand that he has to love his neighbor as himself, but not engage in same-sex relationships unless that command still counts, which then makes the other ones count. All they can do is make comments about what the Jews or others said and then take phrases or sentences in the scriptures and bend them to make whatever they want it to be.
Instead of taking what the scripture says and then showing that it has been changed by groups who say that they changed it and who have influenced others, which is the easiest most logical simplest way of doing it, they come up with whatever excuse they want Something else to be true even though it’s not and won’t be as stated previously.
They can keep on saying it, but it keeps on proving stupid is as stupid does. And so it goes from the stupid of incorrect Armstrong to the stupid of mainstream, so-called christianity.
Anonymous 7:34 wrote, “None of that changes what is clearly stated in the scriptures about the sabbath along with the other commandments that aren’t going away until heaven and earth pass and all has been fulfilled which no matter how you put it or try to explain it has not happened yet.”
If you can receive it.
Jesus attached to this statement the clause, “till all be fulfilled.” When was that? It happened right away because the sacrifices were dropped with the Crucifixion of Jesus. Jesus cited all of the Law and all of the Prophets in Matthew 5:18. At the time he spoke these words, the sacrifices were still in force. And, yet, after the Crucifixion, they passed away because his sacrifice replaced them. Christians and Armstrongists alike would agree with this. From this we know that all was fulfilled at the Crucifixion. The Cosmos changed. And the Old Covenant was replaced by the New Covenant.
In the course of giving us the Law of Christ in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said repeatedly, “Ye have heard that it was said . . . but I say unto you.” This indicates that he was actively changing the law and heaven and earth had not passed away. Jesus stated in Luke:
“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.”
This gives us a different sense of what he was talking about when he spoke of heaven and earth passing. Jesus states here explicitly that the Torah and the prophets were in force until John the Baptist. But their passing was not easy. I believe this is hyperbolic language.
The Sabbath, like Circumcision, still exists in the New Covenant. For Christians, Jesus is our Sabbath not the physical seventh day. And Christians rest from sin in Jesus everyday not just the seventh. The seventh day in the Old Covenant was only a foreshadow of Jesus.
Scout
Let's face it. This blog has always annoyed those who still believe in Herbert W. Armstrong, and always will. And, of course, the Armstrongites' "Replacement Theology" is to believe that HWA somehow represents, or represented God.
BB
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