"All Going to Burn", The Cult Next Door, 5 Feb 2025 [1:18:07] "In Ep.50: 'All Going to Burn,' we sit down with Seth Forrestier, a former fourth-generation member of the Worldwide Church of God & its offshoots. Seth shares his experiences growing up in these high-control gr…"(Audio links in comments)
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22 comments:
Seth is a very thoughtful and sincere young man, and I enjoyed this first part of the interview very much. The negativity of Armstrongism was articulated in a way that was very powerful. The present is ignored. It's all about the future. They never nurtured and encouraged. They always talked about you supporting them, and they actively discouraged any independent thinking or investigation. Can't wait to hear more.
I have known several members of the Forrestier family over the years. It's a sad life for some of them. The large family has in many ways been a cult within a cult, a phenomenon one finds occurring in several of the larger ACOGs, not just LCG. Life is hard enough for a lonely single person who gets caught up in an ACOG, but to be born into a cult within a cult is especially difficult, especially for someone seeking to find and exercise some autonomy. How interesting to find out that, instead of truly "breaking free", Seth has held on to much of his ACOG conditioning, but is now able to express it in a venue where he can be <a href="https://churchofgodnetwork.org/about-us/guest-contributors/>one of the controllers</a> instead of one of the controlled. Let's all wish him well!
Repaired link from above, leading to Seth's current ACOG project:
How interesting to find out that, instead of truly "breaking free", Seth has held on to much of his ACOG conditioning, but is now able to express it in a venue where he can be one of the controllers instead of one of the controlled.
He also said that living in the present is regarded as evil by these groups. Which is very convenience if one wants to minimize the harm inflicted on members. He said he was born in 1989, so I question calling him young.
It has been my experience that Seth is a seeker of truth. I have interacted with him on his blog and my own and have never felt like he had an agenda to control anyone. As for him being young, I guess it is all relative - he's the same age as my youngest daughter!
Looks like the link is still broken, pretty sure I was scrubbed off that site a long while ago.
There is one thing to remember in the aftermath of one's Armstrong or Ambassador experience. There was no baby in the bathwater! They even screwed us over in that department! Left us with the placenta!
BB
I looked [for the baby in the bathwater] for a long time.. I was certain there had to be SOME truth to it all. I've yet to find any, though I did find a lot of interesting origins that aren't at all divine.
Excellence and equality are opposites, eternal enemies.
Yes, Seth and BB, I remember speaking with a family member and saying that it is mainly bathwater. We both now recognize there was no baby at all.
What is the definition of a young person?
For instance, the UN defines youth as persons aged 15 to 24 years, but in some contexts, this age can range up to 35.
https://inee.org
Glad you're free, Seth. I come from a big family, and am a PK. All of my siblings except one have left the fold. I don't really worry about the one who is still part of one of the splinters, because he and my sister-in-law seem happy, well balanced, and are not in one of the extreme ACOGs. They have never been overbearing on the rest of us with their beliefs (they seem to have acquired some awesome social intelligence!) which is a very pleasant contrast with how our parents were when they were alive.
As Bob Weir sang in the immortal Grateful Dead classic (Truckin') "What a long, strange trip it's been!"
BB
There is no baby to look for as the entire edifice was constructed by Armstrong from a hotch splotch of ideas.
The 'work' was not real, nor were his prophecies, nor his allegations of being linked back over 2000 years to the apostles time by reason of sabbath.
It should have been thrown out many years ago, well before his passing, but he was also a great propagandist and managed to convince lots of people his 'mission'/messenger'' role was from God. Being all illusory there was nothing of substance no matter how hard one looked.
I don't know whether Mr. Forrestier will read this, but I would like to take this opportunity to thank him for his podcast and reassure him that, as each year goes on, the hold does weaken and a new spiritual foundation can be built. I was a third generation member, and I plowed the same furrow as Mr. Forrestier - Worldwide - then Global - then Living. It took God intervening in my life to change my circumstances so much that I was literally given no choice but to leave (I dread to think that, had this not happened, I would still be trapped in the spiritual wasteland of Living COG to this day). God then worked in my life to make it so that I could not go to any other COG when I left - I am sure, if this had not happened I would have ended up in the same situation as Mr. Forrestier and countless other people who leave one COG, and that is that they desperately search around immediately not for the truth or try to do any healing, but to find another COG which will be "better".
I spent the first 2-3 years feeling the worst I have ever felt. I felt completely empty, and I had no way of filling the void that seemed to be inside me as I knew what I had been conditioned to believe from birth was wrong in so many ways so that had to be discarded, but I had nothing new to fill that space with yet. Every time I thought "well, these things may not be true, but at least I know XYand Z are", I would study my bible and find out that even XYand Z were not true either. Each layer of belief and doctrine I went down, I found more lies, discrepancies and wrong assumptions. Slowly, I was down to the very last layer - the lowest foundation I could possibly go - "well, I now know all these things are untrue and have to be discarded, but I know that God is real". At first, I actually had foolishly thought I could build my new understanding and faith on the foundations of the COG but found I could not in any way. It was just a crumbling house of cards built upon layer and layer of falseness. And that was why I felt so empty, as I had to rip everything down and start again from the very first brick.
Over the next couple of years I built up my faith again bit-by-bit but I had to suffer the uncomfortable empty feeling until then. But I would not change a single moment of that dark time as I now, finally, for the first time in my life know what it is like to have a relationship with God and Jesus (not interpreted through a layer of carnal men who think they must be my mediator).
I wish Mr. Forrestier well, and hope time heals his wounds just as they are healing mine. Finding this podcast has been a real blessing and I am working my way through the episodes seeing so many similarities to my own experiences.
https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2025/02/here-in-present.html
Anon 1:13:53 PM PST
Thank you for your post. A refreshing reveal. It is similar to what I have experienced, with that of many others I am sure. It has certainly being mind expanding to leave the Armstrong fold. God I do not doubt, has being with me on this journey, through the ups and downs, of which there have being many. I do miss many of my old friends, some of whom I am still in contact with, and we retain our cordial friendships as back in the day. What is of note, is that all of them are no longer part of the Armstrong 'empire' lol. And they have no desire to return. I am saddened that some have remained entangled in its tentacles. Such is life. I have no regrets looking back. I believe my life has been enriched and I am grateful. And I acknowledge that this is not everyone's experience. I still observe Shabbat and the 'Holy Days' but know that it was the atoning work of Jesus Christ at Calvary that saved me. By 'grace' I have being saved.
*Fist-bump. Hit me up anytime you're in N East Texas. I'm easy to find.
The impression that I get from reading this blog over the years is that those contributors who grew up in the ‘church’ are the most traumatised by their experience in Armstrongism.
As one who did not grow up in the church, and allowing that people react differently to life experiences, my experience was overwhelming positive — I wouldn’t have missed it for the world.
I could have read about Armstrongism but to live and breath it takes one to another level.
I regard my experience as a stepping stone to a more refined understanding of Scripture. I now believe that the Crucifixion was on a Friday, the Resurrection on a Sunday, Heaven is the Reward of the Saints, Zedekiah was that the last person to sit on the throne of David and most importantly that Jesus is at the heart and centre of the Gospel of the good news of the reign of God - and without whom there can be no eschatological kingdom.
For me the baby would include the Sabbath and Holy Days as God’s appointed times for His worship.
”7.3.1 The Sabbatical Principle
“The festivals and other rituals are marked by the repeated appearance of the number seven. When the number itself does not occur, it is implied by the Sabbath root (sbt), or by a sevenfold pattern of literary structure...
“The seventh day of the week, the Sabbath had a special importance, and was the holy day par excellence. In Israel the regular repetition of the seven day cycle of the week, independent of any natural periodic cycle, was a central feature of its perception of time. It headed the list of appointed times in Leviticus 23 (v.3), and was the only law concerning the dimension of time in the decalogue (Exod 20:8-11). In the Priestly tradition, the motive for keeping the Sabbath is traced back to the rest of God at the conclusion of creation (Exod 20:11); 31:17; Gen 2:1-3). It stands outside the ordering of time based on the sun and moon (Gen 1:14).
“Although a regular seven day cycle was specific to Israel, the seven day period for a festival or other ritual was common in the Semitic world. It is attractive to suggest that seven has become a symbol of holiness in the dimension of time (cf. 4.3.2). The special significance of the Sabbath as a holy seventh day in Israel reinforces the association, and the number seven unifies the occasional rituals and the regular ones. It is appropriate that the liturgical calendar in Leviticus 23 is headed by the Sabbath, which is described in the same way as the other festival as a holy proclamation (qds mqr’, Lev 23:3). The major [non-Atonement] festivals days are also called sabbaton (sbtwn), probably a derived form of ‘Sabbath,’...
“7.3.2 The Sabbath
“The Sabbath does not have the significance in the cult that might be expected for a holy day... Yet the Sabbath is frequently called holy (qds, Exod 16:23; 31:15, 15; 35:2) and was to be sanctified (piel qds; by God...
“It was also, like the Passover, an institution rooted in the events before Sinai (Exod 16)... Although little information is given about how the Sabbath was to be observed positively, its most important feature was that no work is to be carried out during it, a secular rather than a cultic criterion...
Zec 2:10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
Zec 2:11a-bα And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, (AV).
“If holiness is a mark of the presence of God, then the general character of the Sabbath indicates that God dwells in the midst of his people on this day to a special degree. The command not to work stressed that Yahweh and not the earth or Israel’s efforts is the source of blessing and joy” (Phillip Peter Jenson, Graded Holiness - A Key to the Priestly Conception of the World, pp.192-97).
There is a lot of hate on here.
It depends on your degree of hate anon811 as to whether there is a “lot” of hate. Your comment is the closest thing to hateful and judgmental that I’ve read in these comments.
He, she, or it really didn't clarify the nature of the hate, did they? They left the source or direction nebulous. Hatred for error, scams, and false prophets or teachers and cruel, sociopathic, authoritarain leaders is a Godly type of hatred which we should all have! I love that kind of hatred, because it indicates that people are no longer deceived.
There is also a great deal of love here for the deceived. We hope above all things that they will wake up and join us some day.
Im not 8:11 but join you in what exactly ? Being two faced? The inner club of secrecy only the cool inner people join? Knowing the double meaning and being in the know?
What a time to be alive!
Yet you seem so confused yourself. The problem with 'righteous hatred' is it seeps into other areas, hatred of children becomes acceptable. A nasty huff or snort at this or that person is justified as they don't have your beliefs. A lie filled rumour or ten about this or that person is 'justified' as its all in the art of 'righteous hatred'. The workers at Autswitch thought they had justified 'righteous hatred' as they threw women and children and elderly in the gas chambers. So I'd be very careful gloating about your 'righteous hatred' it could come back to haunt you one day.
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