This is his sermon on church government that is already stirring up a stink.
Such pure unadulterated crap!
Salvation and some kind of Armstrongite "role" in the kingdom is not determined by how you lead today!
Your future role in God's Kingdom depends on how you lead today.
Learn how faithful, humble service now trains us
for authority to serve humanity with Jesus Christ forever.
29 comments:
The true face of UCG ministers, again. You come here to try an destroy God’s church!
Who's given Bob Dick a get out of jail free card? His GCE message was dire too.
You only need to see the GCE photos of Gary Antion's look at Pebworth to know.
A 30 year UCG anniversary with not one professional video produced showing any reasonable achievements. They could have shown the summer camps, the Feast of Tabernacles, local activities ect over the years. They've got all the technology and talent to do something but did nothing.
Has wisdom died on the streets like a Jack the ripper victim ? Does no-one tell the truth to the elites. Or more importantly is God not inspiring the truth to be told.
They've single handedly made Rick Shabi's popularity soar by undoubtedly making him the underdog and making themselves look like Oligarchs. Who's even capable of turning this around ?
What's the difficulty? It is standard ACOG teaching that Christ will reward saved Christians based on the character they develop. In fact, for Tim to point out that Christ will reward leaders who are humble servants rather than petty dictators could be taken as quite subversive. The only ones likely to be offended by this concept are the nasty little men who think their ordination gives them carte blanche to abuse and gaslight the brethren.
I listened to the entire message and personally did not find it anything but sincere, true to the scriptures on "he that is 'greatest' among you let him be your servant, and sincere. Tim seems a kind, intelligent and balanced speaker with experience of having grown up in the harsher days of WCG. I did not find it oppressive, authoritarian or "crap" in the least. I am actually a bit puzzled as to why it was seen as such.
Sometimes, maybe, we look too deeply, with too much baggage of our own into what others seem to say when they aren't saying that at all? Sometimes we assume there is something to fault when there actually is not in this case?
IMHO
Then why do this post in the first place ? Why allege it's already stirring up a stink? Who would know that ? Certainly NOT UCG members.
OOOHHH! We're subversives, and we're coming to get you! We have so much power that we could destroy a whole church! But, listen to my sermon that I'll never give this coming sabbath, and you'll hear me only toeing the line!
Praise be to Nero's Neptune! The Titanic sails at dawn!
Amen to this! (And that's something I rarely write here.)
The Bob Dick split sermon at GCE was far more "Armstrong-driven" - but to be fair, it was history-focused. This message is more future-focused.
Yet Rick Shabi was noticeable at this service by not being shown or mentioned at all. Apparently he worked out a settlement to return to JAX/ORL as Assistant Pastor-in-waiting.
I also viewed the whole sermon, and what struck me was that the word rights was absent. So if your minister is supposedly trying to "serve you," he can legitimately walk all over your rights. Meddling bullies are notorious for their "I was just trying to help" claim. How can even a well meaning minister not inadvertently violate members rights if they are not taught and listed by the ACOGs? America's articulated bill of rights (basically a restraint on government) are there for a reason. That Herb's splinters shun doing so is telling.
As the greatest lie Satan has much of the world believe that he doesn't exist, so is the deceptive lie that there isn't rebels from within who would stop at nothing to destroy everything UCG is trying to do and think they do God a service in that.
Who's deceived by the mockery? Who's intimidated the stalking ? Not I.
I listened to his sermon, too. It is another power from the top-down sermon portraying ministers masquerading as "servants" of the brethren. Since when has that ever been the case? Power corrupts, and we are expected to "submit" to that corruption so that we can be rulers when we are in the kingdom. That translates to: if you do not submit to the ministry then you will NOT be a ruler in the kingdom, if you even make it.
If we had men who were real servants, humble, not blatant hypocrites, and actually got their hands dirty doing real work, then most of us would gladly follow that man. Sadly, even in the UCG ministry, which claimed to do what was right when they split from WCG, they have never been able to do that.
My WCG parents served me real good. I was beaten daily, multiple times each day and as the church saw it "in the name of Jesus Christ".
When an ACOG leader claims he wishes to, serve you, run like hell!
I already knew that, 10:35. I first met people of your stereotype back in the 1970s. Church induced paranoia and a rigidly clenched jaw. You guys are all over the place. We got another guy around here like that. His name is Thiel. All paranoid about Satan's attacks, and then he goes and blinds himself to witch doctors. Now, those are some REAL rebels! Thanks for providing another example of ACOG culture. Luv to yuk it up each morning!
When an ACOG leader claims he wishes to, serve you, run like hell!
When an ACOG leader promises to serve you, remember the famous episode of The Twilight Zone: "To Serve Man".
My latest email from Craig White also brings up people having issues with this sermon.
I’m not sure these words have ever come out of my mouth, but here goes…I agree with Dennis and he’s 100% correct. :)
I don't like the way he pronounces the word authority. All other words are pronounced in casual tones except this one word. My first minister did this all the time. This is an example of 'loaded language' whereby additional meanings are heaped on a word or expression. This special pronunciation means that the ministers can do whatever they want, with the end justifying the means. Basically they are above the law. Member rights are non existent. His friendly demeanor is misleading.
Dennis just proved he's not one of the UCG outlaws here!
Yes, but "leading" touting 3 tithes and 7 holyday offerings? I think the UCG has "another Jesus" - 2Cor 11:4.
You don’t like the way he “pronounces” a word?!? Holy s*** do you need help.
"Sometimes, maybe, we look too deeply, with too much baggage of our own into what others seem to say.."
Dennis, there's a thing called church culture. It's often deliberately not printed and spoken out loud because the church leaders know that it often clashes with the bible and justice. They pretend that their moral compromises are common sense and the natural order of things. Posters here have experienced the abusive culture, and they know that it's still in place. Good luck to any minister in these groups who tries to survive without embracing their culture.
Agree wholeheartedly. In this modern times we have the deception of supposed Sabbath Ministry turning against their beliefs and actually being Sunday keeping church goers in real life.
Say it to my face hypocrite.
What happened to DennisCDhiel character not believing in the existence of God ? Who's fooling whom?
Tim points out that he's a long time member who grew up in the church, as if it's a virtue. Being a long time member means that the unspoken church rules have been internalized. Rather it's new members who at least initially perceive the evils in the church. If they stick around, they too will be acclimatized to the evils. An example of this is that on the day of Atonement, God performs a miracle to pick the goat representing Satan from the goat representing Christ. The counterfeit is so good that an outsider is needed to see the truth. This can be God, an outsider or a good self help book that spills the beans. This is why churches hate books on assertiveness with their list of rights.
38% of human communication is in the tone of voice. I would describe the pronouniation of "authority" and similar loaded language in the ACOGs as a combination of aristocratic and tone of importance/superiority. Others might describe it differently .
El Presidente de la Trump is an extreme example, but he's another one whose pronunciations are dog whistles. Those who are not of the Pavlovian mindset tend to pick up on it and to dislike it.
Also, if his dad was who I think he was, Tim had a lot to deal with as he grew up in the church. The church's perspectives were, uh, well..............
Dennis, I know Tim Pebworth and his wonderful wife personally. They were in the San Jose congregation when I attended UCG from 2009 to 2012. Tim and his wife met at Ambassador College and they both worked there. Tim told me some amazing stories about the waste and hypocritical opulence of Herbie and WCG. (The cashew budget was astounding. LOL) -- I know for a fact Tim is a sincere and decent man. He was a man I trusted with some very personal things going on with me at the time. He was kind, measured, wise, and a damn good father and husband. I enjoyed all our times together, even when it was just the three of us having dinner at his house. As far as the theology of what he preaches...I don't care. He's a good guy and a true "brother in Christ" to those who know him. People can disagree with his theology, but you cannot question the man's character and sincerity. If he gets some limelight, it is not because he seeks it. He is a hardworking, reliable fellow and I still consider him a friend to this day.
What he said was that Pebworth's sermon reflects UCG's belief in governance and ministerial behaviours - a very good sermon by him and also by Bob Dick. But there are some that are opposed to that and belong in the PCG.
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