The Living Church of God is marching forward into battle, getting its message across to the world in these perilous end times. They recently held several in-person presentations extolling their virtuous belief system to a deceived and hurting population. Out of a grand total population size of 1,354,628 to pull from, they attracted 88 people. That is a return rate of 0.00649625%. If we go by any past presentations of various COG groups, at least half to three-quarters of the people present were church members.
How, pray tell, can this possibly be seen as a profitable return rate for proclaiming a gospel message that they believe the world desperately needs to hear?
Last week, we held six in-person presentations in Grand Prairie, Alberta, Canada; Knoxville and Etowah, Tennessee; Hartford, Connecticut; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania; and Belfast, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom. These presentations drew a total of 88 guests.
The populations of the towns that LCG went into:
Grande Prairie, Alberta 70,385
Knoxville TN 198,722
Etowah, Tennessee 3,742
Hartford, Connecticut; 122,129
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 307,668
Belfast, Northern Ireland 348,000, wider metropolitan area 651,982
Grand total of people in the fields white for harvest: 1,354,628
The days of Church of God groups putting forth dynamic speakers like Herbert Armstrong and Garner Ted Armstrong are over. There are no men of that speaking caliber in any COG group today. People today start dozing off 10 minutes into a sermon or public lectures by these guys.
55 comments:
The fact that there are other entities who are vastly outperforming all of the ACOGs demonstrates that there can be success! So, something is terribly wrong either in the way the message is being crafted and delivered, or these guys have lost any attachment HWA might have had to the Zeitgeist!
I mean, Jeez-Louise! It's not as if all the people in these cities LCG approached read Banned! Maybe there are urban legends circulating about Armstrongites handing out booklets and magazines to homeless people instead of spare change so they can eat.
BB
I know, I know.......who cares? but as a retired odditor, no, auditor, I ran the numbers through Chromebook calculator...it's worse....0.0000516848072509.
Oh thee of little faith……..
Perhaps we need to breakdown these figures further.
How many ‘newbie’s attended each seminar, talk, whatever.
10 there, 25 there, none there, 6 there, 2 and 1/2 there lol, 12 there and so on……
Either way the glory days are gone done and dusted.
Folks don’t have to turn up now. We have the internet, so everything is at our fingertips. And that is Armstrongisms biggest stumbling block. As it exposes them openly and clearly. The good the bad and everything in between. But there are churches outperforming all of Armstrongism combined as BikerBob points out. And not tainted with the toxins of Herbies crumbling empire.
Tis a vert scary marching going on here
And what was Christ's success rate? He rebuked the cities of Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum in Matthew 11:20-24 for failing to repent despite witnessing many of His miracles and mighty works. The point is that God is a God of opportunity, and gave these people an opportunity to repent. Their blood was on their own heads for not responding. So the low figures given in this article does not necessarily equal failure in God's eyes.
That lower photo must be Herb giving his two trees sermon for the umpteenth time.
LCG is like most of the larger COG organizations. They are always concerned about it being a numbers game. They claim to have thousands more with them than they actually do (especially at the Feast). Does anyone really know how many active members they have? Several ministers have died and I haven't seen very many replaced. The membership is old and tired like most COG organizations.
As the Biker would say, they still have that old outdated model. Trying to use 20th century approaches in the 21st century paradigm. They themselves bankrupted armstrongism.
Tank
Until God calls you, there is nothing that can be said that will bring you into the Church. Man does not build a Church, God does.
The manipulation of numbers is a fascinating and informative thing. Consider the mysterious 10 percent.
Jesus said, "the poor you always have with you", John 12:8. In the USA, the estimated number of people for which poverty programs are directed is roughly 10% of the population, 33 million people by today's count.
Prior to the Great Society of 1964, 40 million people (20% of the population) were considered at or below the poverty level. In 1969 the numbers were 24 million / 12%, a reduction of 16 million / 8%.
When Obamacare was introduced in 2010, the number of people without health insurance was estimated at 16%. In 2016 it was 8.9%, a 7% reduction. It has been said that since its implementation, Obamacare has extended health care to approximate 20 million Americans, but at what cost?
The cost of these programs?
I ran a search on the cost of the Great Society and one estimate came back at a staggering cost of 22 trillion dollars, which I'm not sure is believable. 22 trillion spent to benefit 8% of the population?
Since Obamacare is ongoing, it's difficult to estimate its cost effectiveness. We know billions have been spent so far. It is estimated that the national debt due to government subsidies could grow by an additional 13 trillion in the next 10 years . . . to benefit 20 million people (up to now)??
How much benefit is our mysterious 10% actually receiving from these enormous sums being spent? My guess is 90% goes to administrative costs (and graft) and maybe 10% goes to the 10% (much in the same way some Churches of God operate).
Charity abuses are not that much different, although we do have a choice there. The CEO of the Red Cross today makes aprox. 700 thousand a year. The politician Elizabeth Dole was paid 500 plus thousand in the 1990's. And let's not forget the United Way scandals of the past, where their leadership stole and embezzled millions over the years.
When considering the numbers, would it not have been cheaper to give each one of the mysterious 10% a million dollars than to spend on programs that were/are clearly not cost effective (except for the politicians)? Don't misunderstood this, I'm not against helping the poor. I'm against those who help themselves at the expense of the poor, whether they be politician or church leader. Both will be judged the same.
Personally, I'm content with their continued failure, because I consider them to be a toxic, and spiritually damaging system.
There is one thing I fear right now, but I really believe the ACOGs will somehow miss, or blow the opportunity, so I'll share anyway. Charlie Kirk's final book is about the sabbath. It has not been published as of yet. I believe that when it hits the stores, it will create a huge amount of interest in the sabbath, with hordes of people wanting to learn more. If the ACOGs can't somehow figure out how to walk through an open door like that, then they're pretty much finished.
BB
Amen. And when God builds no man can stop him.
1 Samuel 8:14-18 ESV
He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive orchards and give them to his servants. He will take the tenth of your grain and of your vineyards and give it to his officers and to his servants. He will take your male servants and female servants and the best of your young men and your donkeys, and put them to his work. He will take the tenth of your flocks, and you shall be his slaves. And in that day you will cry out because of your king, whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.
LCG members need to consider that if their church really is the "biggest" then they aren't "a Philadelphia remnant" but instead are LAODICEA.
I know United did a short program after his (Kirk's) death, but I don't agree with their angle. Anyhow, they may get tangled up with the politics of it, the MAGA of it. What BT failed to mention is how Kirk should have never gotten into the politics of this world. But it is astounding that Kirk has/had more of a following than any ACOG leader in modern times. He might go down like a Waldo, Traske or John James to them. Good point BB.
Tank
Kirk's idea of Sabbath-keeping is that you use your Sabbath (and he says it can be any day, not just Saturday) as an actual day of rest, along with attending your regular church service on Sunday. Kirk's book will make it clear to readers that you aren't experiencing a "Sabbath rest" by spending an entire morning and/or afternoon driving to and from a two-hour religious service. Kirk's book will end up undermining rather than bolstering the ACOGs in their busy-beaver approach to the Sabbath.
I always got the impression from HWA's teaching that we would not know who was Philadelphian, and who was Laodicean (actually there is no such thing as church eras) until Philadelphia was taken to the place of safety. Literally, God would make His choices at that time!
So, all these accusations and counter-accusations of who is or isn't Laodicean are ridiculous. But, these are church groups firmly based on second-guessing God. No man is supposed to be able to know when Jesus will return, and people who just don't get the meaning of "judgment call" keep trying to figure it out by math!
BB
Hey BB, you raise a good point about the upcoming book potentially being an opportunity for the COGs. I will say even if the book drives interest in the sabbath leading people to the COGs, they still have a retention problem. Getting people in the door is only half the battle or less. The amount of creeps, pervs, and jerks (ministry and lay members) makes for some attrition. They will fumble, it’s just a question of when/where.
Personally, I don't want a "dynamic" speaker like Herbert Armstrong. These days you can get that from a Tony Robbins or a sports coach.
I want a speaker who preaches a message of substance from the word of God. Someone who faithfully speaks the words of the Chief Shepherd (and thus, the Father) and not their own words.
Herbert Armstrong brought people to his church, but did he bring people to worship God in spirit and in truth?
Perhaps all the splinters are Laodicean with a sprinkling of Philadelphians among them.
The paradox here is that if you THINK you "are a Philadelphian" this is almost always proof that you are NOT one. Philadelphians are humble and esteem others above themselves. It's Laodiceans who see themselves as being worthy of recognition for their spiritual status.
Once people come in: they begin to discover and ask where did these groups come from? What happened back here? What happened with this guy? What was that college? Why are then these other groups like us, but separate? Then they do some internet research. So yea it's retaining them.
Politically speaking, also the arson attack happened at Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro's house during the Jewish Passover this year also. But I guess this wouldn't make people keep the passover, perhaps because it's jewish and he's democrat.
The full fat faith movement on different young people observing the Sabbath, in the manner Charlie Kirk did, has being going on for about ten years. It has grown strength through social media influences like TikTok ha!, who show how they observe the 7th day Sabbath as a day of rest. Charlie Kirk is part of, or steadily influenced by, that movement.
There is currently a 'full fat faith' movement, their description not mine, that is occurring in the young. Many older COG ministry on both sides of the fences, seem oblivious to it. I think that is telling and testimony to God himself is really in charge and he makes fools of the arrogant, from all sides of the fences. The fact its being labelled "full fat faith movement" is as if God has a sense of humour and is laughing at the AC anorexic movement of the past.
.."actually there is no such thing as church eras."
The argument is that the churches in Revelation chapter three were not physically that far apart. So the big differences in their moral status doesn't make sense..
The only explanation for their differences is time. They must represent eras.
A couple more examples of the manipulation of numbers by the church is first of all, "the Little Flock". Along with the mother church, which splinter hasn't used that one in proving they were the true church of Scripture?
Another classic . . . GTA, when pressed to explain why he was not attracting a huge following, use to say, " how many converts did Noah have"???
When you stop to think about, both of these examples are brilliant! I can't stop laughing!
Well, BB, it appear that your premise is that men can draw others into The Church. That is clearly not true. While God could use Charlie's book to draw some into His Church, I suspect that the vast majority will simply be "hobbyists". They will learn some things and file them away, never truly acting on them. But then, they will be unable to act until The Father calls them.
Byker, your impression of HWA's teaching that we would not know who was Philadelphian, and who was Laodicean is absolutely correct. In HWA's failed 1972/1975 prophecy scenario, on the first week of January 1972 coinciding with the completion of the 2nd 19-year time cycle, the Philadelphian's were to be taken to Petra place of safety as the Germans were attacking (punishing) America. We were to pray that we were counted worthy to escape the Great Tribulation as Philadelphians. My vivid recollection was looking out my bedroom window at night during the first week of January 1972 to see if the Germans were attacking and whether I was counted worthy to escape the Great Tribulation.
Everything in Armstrongism that we see today including HWA wannabees, splinter ACOGs and "Philadelphians in the Laodicean era" was never preached by the WCG under HWA or by HWA himself. NEVER!
Richard
The inter-webs. That is the whole reason why Armstrongism can’t draw many people anymore. It’s too easy for them to do research. They can find the whole WCG/Armstrong story, which discredits them as a cult. But also, they can find information (yes, even supportive stuff) on the topics that interest them.
The latter one is the big change. Say I’m touched by an ACOG outreach about Israelite Identity. I start punching keys and find not only a bunch of other churches with very similar names putting out virtual copies of each other’s works on the subject, I also find unrelated sources advocating the theory. Back in my day, this would have required going to the library and doing a lot of research, with no guarantee I would find much. Thus, at the time it seemed like this was something (almost) unique to Armstrong(ism). Not anymore. I will click on Armstrongist stuff, but never seriously think of attending or even contributing any substantial amount. And if I do think about it, the inter-webs, tell me the story.
There is simply no reason to go Armstrongist.
My own case demonstrates this: By the time I realized there was an entire British/Anglo-Israelist subculture out there, I had already committed to WCG. I should’ve stopped and learned, but I didn’t. Had I known that and so much else from the beginning, I would never have attended an ACOG. Honestly, I probably would have ended up a Seventh Day Baptist believing Israelite Identity and probably doing the annuals.
I recently came across two people discussing Armstrong, HW and this topic on TruthSocial. I inserted into their discussion what Armstrong himself was really like, plus the 1960 article, “Should we listen to others?” They remain interested in this and related topics, but neither speaks at all glowing of him the way they had been. Success.
Too much information about Armstrongist topics, and too much information about Armstrongism.
“Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.” — Dan 12:4b NIV. A popular Armstrongist end-time verse. And the foretelling of Armstrongism’s biggest enemy.
BB, it appear that your premise is that men can draw others into The Church. That is clearly not true.
Some of the men who talk this way were obviously drawn into WCG by men. That doesn't mean they were drawn into The Church, just that they are men following men, and expect other men to follow them.
That's a great point Lee Walker. You know we all make mistakes and so do the orgs. And I was thinking about the family of that shooter in Utah, as they are mormons. As may know the mormons have a dirty history as well, and people can research their shortcomings as well. There are some divisions or sects, within them, but for the most part, there still remains a mother church and a few colleges that still remain to funnel in the young people. Not saying that that's my cup of tea, oops they don't drink tea.
Tank
I thought rock music would last forever. Musicians say that it died because every combination of notes, chords, and beats has already been done over the past 75 years. This happened to Jazz, before it, as well. Perhaps the same thing has happened to the Armstrong doctrines, theories, and life style. You know, time and date stamped. Taken as
far as it's going to go. Much of it debunked along the way.
This flies in the faces of people who saw it as eternal truth. Must be hard to accept.
Garner Ted Armstrong's Ineffective Babbling
In the 1970s, Herbert W. Armstrong was busy flying around the world in his private jet to meet with all sorts of world leaders. Meanwhile, HWA left his son Garner Ted Armstrong in charge of the Worldwide Church of God, and the WCG stopped growing.
After HWA openly kicked his own son GTA out of the WCG in 1978, the WCG began to grow again.
GTA went on to start his own tiny little rebel cults, first the little CGI and then, when GTA got forced out of even that one, the even smaller ICG, but they only attracted a small number of people from the WCG, never grew on their own, and never amounted to anything.
GTA's supposedly great babbling voice was greatly overrated by some people.
Ha! Keep telling yourself the Tkachite propaganda. CGI was one of the fastest growing COG groups. It bought it's own church land and buildings from the get go, which endures to this day. CGI and various branches survive.
Yet on your next post about Mystery of the Ages you go on to agree with a well known CGI doctrine, the qualification of apostles.
There was a great influx of new members just prior to GTAs removal in 1978. This coincided with the church loosening it's super Borg church culture. This is evident in spokesmen club photos showing all the men wearing those baggy dark blue suits, white shirts and neo military haircuts. No individuality was permitted. Resistance was futile. I was told that men were thrown out of church services for even having slight color in their shirts. After this mid 1970s influx, the numbers remained basically unchanged. There was only a trickle of new members.
11:45 I think it's a stretch to seriously compare the LCG's paltry seminar attendance figures with the "success rate" of the Chief Shepherd, the Messiah Himself. Jesus' mission wasn’t measured by crowd sizes or seminar turnouts — He was fulfilling the Father's will perfectly, offering salvation to the world, laying down His life, and founding the Church. The rebuke of Chorazin, Bethsaida and Capernaum (Mat 11:20–24) wasn’t about low attendance — it was about people witnessing literal miracles and still choosing to reject Him! That's a vastly different situation than low interest in a modern church seminar. And yes, God gives people opportunities — but we also need to be honest when something isn’t bearing fruit. The point of evaluating outreach efforts isn't to compare ourselves to Christ, but to ask whether we are being faithful stewards of the resources, time and gospel we've been entrusted with. Not every effort is a failure — but not every effort is above evaluation, either.
You raise valid concerns BP8 — especially re the staggering cost of poverty programs versus the actual help reaching those in need. And you're not alone in questioning whether the Great Society truly delivered on its promises. This article I read from American Vision dives into that issue, arguing these programs often created dependency rather than solving poverty (https://americanvision.org/24689/governments-create-poor-people/). It points out that poverty was already declining before the Great Society and after trillions spent, we’re still hovering around the same poverty rate with broken systems and families as unintended consequences.
Like you said, the issue isn’t helping the poor—it’s people helping themselves at the poor’s expense. Whether in politics or religion, that kind of exploitation deserves scrutiny.
3:02 “The argument is that the churches in Revelation chapter three were not physically that far apart. So the big differences in their moral status doesn't make sense..The only explanation for their differences is time. They must represent eras.”
On the contrary one of the strongest arguments against the “church eras” interpretation is the simple fact that churches—even those geographically close—can vary widely in spiritual condition, doctrine and practice all at the same time.
Paul wrote letters to churches that existed contemporaneously but were quite different in their challenges and spiritual states eg the Corinthian church (1 Cor) was struggling with divisions, immorality and doctrinal confusion, while the Philippian church (Philippians) was commended for unity, joy and strong faith, even though both churches existed in roughly the same era. This shows that spiritual health and challenges are not uniform even in the same time period.
Jesus also described how the seed (the Word of God) falls on different types of soil at the same time, producing varied results. This illustrates that people—and by extension churches—respond differently to God’s message simultaneously, not sequentially over eras.
In the first few centuries, churches across the Roman Empire exhibited a wide range of theological beliefs and practices simultaneously. For example, in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, some churches fought against Gnostic heresies, while others struggled with issues of moral laxity or persecution. The diversity among churches was significant even within relatively small geographical regions.
Then during the 16th century, some churches remained firmly Catholic, others became Lutheran, Calvinist or Anabaptist—all existing simultaneously but differing greatly in doctrine and practice. This illustrates that spiritual conditions and doctrinal stances are not necessarily sequential but can coexist.
And today, even within one city or neighborhood, you’ll find churches that are vibrant and faithful, alongside others that are lukewarm or compromised. The same cultural context, but very different spiritual outcomes. For example, many churches in the same metropolitan area may preach vastly different messages on issues like social justice, biblical authority and holiness.
The seven churches in Revelation 2–3 are no different. Their differing spiritual states reflect the natural diversity in any group of congregations existing at the same time, especially given their varied local circumstances, leadership and challenges. Geographic proximity doesn’t require uniformity, nor does spiritual or moral difference necessitate a timeline spanning centuries.
This understanding helps us take the letters as urgent, real messages to real churches, encouraging and correcting them as needed, rather than as symbolic representations of eras that were yet to come.
Only a trickle of new members after the 70s, 5:45? Wrong. I came in '82 and witnessed the growth until the decay in '93-'96. I used to wonder what happened to the old members in '82 because they weren't around at the heights of '89. Remember that WCG got up to 140,000 attendees at one point before the apostasy of '94-'95. I stayed til '96 but it was a dying church becoming unglued, trying to work up the "Jesus movement" in a decaying environment while members were leaving and becoming disaffected, disillusioned. You can't have growth without structure. The church isn't a charity or foundation or social group. And what most of you don't know is that the church was split up due to its sins.
As for church eras, what describes this era better than the materialistic Laodiceans who are full of themselves, can't see, and can't find a righteous garment to put on? (Rev 3:18) Not only that, the Philadelphians, the era before the downfall of the church, know that the hour of trial is coming upon the world (Rev 3:10) and are getting ready for it. And, btw, John wrote AFTER the hour of trial that took place from '66-70 AD.
The 140,000 was the feast of Tabernacles attendance which included non baptized family members. As has been debated on this site, the 140,000 is probably inflated by the non truthful ministry. Many think about 100,000 baptized members was the peak membership.
Shortly after HWA's death, we were told that we could attend the church services of other denominations rather than the WWCG. I had members describe to me their experiences in attending other groups. So the apostasy started before '94 to '95. The mask just came off around 1994.
Ronald Regans presidency ushered in a era of conservatism and focus on the family, which helped enormously WCG with Herbert's well produced television programmes highlighting similar themes.
So what Is clear is that Gerald Weston and the LCG do not permit mixed race marriage and they really become upset about it. Yet they readily, with full knowledge, permit adultery and fornication. Why is this? So what we have as a result is a church revolving door.
Yea, I remember when I was young in that organization and after I joined the minister said to me "by the way you cannot have a relationship with these women" because of my race. So basically you have these old dudes telling me who I can and cannot go with as a partner in life. So yea revolving door. I was glad to see minister Harold Way with his Asian wife a few times. Life is too short to be ofrced to be with somebody you don't really want to be with. A splinter group is already limited anyways, and then they want to limit you even more. Horrible men
Gerald Weston teaches that the ministers can do what they do, and God will back them up. This is the tail wagging the dog (spelled backward). The example he gives to "prove" that he is right is in when Moses married an Ethiopian woman. So although Weston and the LCG are against interracial marriage, Moses married a black woman, and God backed up Moses against Miriam and Aaron, as Gerald Weston would have it. Weston has said, "And remember this! Even if we Are wrong, God was angry with the People, Not Moses!" Well this is a serious twisting of what actually happened, and Weston is wrong. He is wrong, and all of those who do not agree with him but are too cowardly to speak up and take a stand for what is right. God was not angry with Miriam and Aaron and Israel about such a marriage. God became angry with the lot because they tried somewhat to userp his office. Weston and the LCg ministers have several crafty and deceptive ways of explaining away verses like James 3:1 and Ezekiel 34, and how these verses do not apply to the ministry. Well yess they do apply. Rod Meredith also taught this, and he would drag out the look out for God's government kind of thing when people dared to speak up to them about genuine concerns and situations in the church. Global and LCG.
Well yea 5:40. And if Moses was against God’s Law, well then he should have been punished for it, right. But he was NOT in violation of God’s Law. As God used him to write the Torah. Yea Meredith would do the same, as he would often put interracial marriage in the same sentence with homosexuality relationships, when one can produce life while the other cannot. It just gets to those older members not caring not looking out for the interest of others (Phil. 2:4) in this area. So some individuals who get offended by this (as they are causing the offense), will go elsewhere and perhaps they might do a wonderful work in some other group outside of the sphere of armstrongism. They basically still want segregation, adhering to a tribal form of Christianity grounded in the OT tribal system. So Weston a man in his 80s still doesn't get it, it's sad, but that's them.
10:52 Here we go again with Reagan this and Regan that. Reagan also ushered in that no fault divorce from California (so much for the family). Also in 1986, President Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to approximately 2.7 million undocumented immigrants (this was during HWA death). During his administration he Iran-Contra affair, and the crack cocaine epidemic are linked by the illegal funding of the anti-communist Contra rebels in Nicaragua, who trafficked cocaine with the CIA's knowledge into American inner cities. And this also destroyed families. Now fast forward to today, we have Trump is trying to find to get to the origin of the fentanyl crisis, but to no avail. He may have promoted those things you mentioned, but Satan was working behind the scenes. Reagan also gutted the unions.
Ooohhhh! 5:38/11:14. Play that funky music, white boy! Got to hear more of that funky music!
Nowadays, 1:45, young people know to go on the internet, and to learn about Zipporah (Moses' wife of color), or Asenath, Manasseh and Ephraim's Egyptian mommy. But I am sure that the ACOG ministers of today would still reprove and rebuke them! They refuse to repent of HWA's errors and sins, and do not want to be confused with the facts! How could a member called to be part of Armtrongism impeach or disbelieve such a source as "God's Apostle", "End times Elijah", "restorer of truth"? Why that would be..........wait for it......blasphemy!
11:00 yep, I mean that man has been gone for nearly forty years. And with an apostosy along with various splinter groups. They still want to hold on to it, as it is tied to their BI doctrine. I even heard a minister in LCG explain away the ethiopian wife of Moses (sad but true). They must hold true to Armstrongism all they way to the grave, that's what they have been taught. It also coincides with their internal republican christian nationalist belief system. You just have to forgive them move on, or if you are with them. Chew the meat and spit out the bone. Their boast is of the flesh, when we all pass away.
With the small sizes of the splinter congregations, there is a dating famine ongoing in many areas. I'm surprised some deep thinker has not come up with the idea of dating members of the so-called "Sardis" era of what they refer to as "God's True Church." I'm sure some old timers would laugh and make jokes about a "Zombie Apocalypse, though.
Seriously, in the wisdom of the Talmud, we read that Jews' first responsibility was to preserve life, even to the extent of eating unclean meats temporarily to survive. You'd think that ACOG leaders would lighten up on their non-Biblical restrictions against intermarrying amongst the gentile members of the church. If they are converted, all are one in Christ anyway. There might even be some nice surprises involved.
Remember, multiculturalism works just fine for everybody, except for the people who are hard-set against it and deliberately sabotage it.
Great points 3:37 multiculturalism somehow works on sports teams and musical groups to accomplish a goal. But it doesn't work when the leader or those in charge sabotoge the effort (could have had a Willie Mays or Roberto Clemente, or a Jimi Hendrix or Carlos Santana). I totally understand the OT and old covenant approach to the Israel, because God only dealt with Israel and one had to be literally grafted in. It's also interesting that God allowed Rahab to marry someone (Salmon)who ends up in the genealogy of Christ. They didn't go, "oh you're not an Israelite woman so you must not marry one of us", after helping the spies. And Christ line had to be for Judah, we get that. But you grow your church with young people. And at least HWA understood that with those colleges, but they are stuck in the past. And again, they could have possibly lost someone who was in their midst who was like a Hendrix, Clemente type spiritually, but they want to play that racially purity game.
Tank
Wow, Tank! I slept in late this morning, waking in the middle of a vivid dream, only to see these multiculturalism comments. The dream mixed several time frames, and put a couple of my past girlfriends from different eras both into the present, so each of them thought I was with them. I was going to be running in a marathon with the white one, (Little Dolly), and the black one (Mary) was on the organizing committee. Mary had a beautiful home, right out of the pages of one of the decorator magazines, and her BFF had told me she was going to ask me to move in with her. Little Dolly had left early for the race, and I was going to meet her at the starting line. And then, as I walked down to the site, with several othes who were running in the race, my ankles locked up and I realized I was not going to even make it to the starting line, let alone be able to run in the race. I woke up, wondering how I was going to resolve the dilemma, because the love I felt for each of these ladies was just as intense as it had been at the zenith of the relationships. Musta been the cranberry juice I drank right before going to bed.
BB
Great story BB
Spanish Castle Magic
Tank
Feast attendance peaked at 150.000 from 90.000....membership had grown from 55.000 to 100.000...so it doubled.
GTA's, CGI amounted to nothing and was never mentioned after. "back on the track" ... just as Jimmy Swaggart and tv hosts learned, charisma goes with the sins..
Nck
Post a Comment