Calculating the Date of the Messiah's Birth
For almost two millennia, Christians have celebrated the events of their Savior's life. To be clear, there are only two events in the life of Jesus of Nazareth which can be associated with a particular date on the calendar based on the scriptural evidence alone. They are his death just before Passover, and his resurrection which occurred on the following Sunday. Indeed, even in this instance, we find much to debate and haggle over! Moreover, Jesus himself only left instructions for his disciples to commemorate his death (the Eucharist). Even so, Christians have persisted in celebrating their Lord's birth, dedication, baptism, death, and resurrection.
There are a number of very good reasons for all of this. For Christians, the appearance and work of Jesus Christ is the most important occurrence in the history of humankind. For his disciples, his sacrifice for the sins of humankind means salvation and life. For them, his teachings and example underscore love, compassion, empathy, kindness, forgiveness, mercy, and peace. For Christians, Jesus is the fulfillment of the Hebrew Scriptures - the culmination of God's plans for all of us. In short, Jesus is everything to his followers, and anything associated with him is worthy of celebration and remembrance.
That this impulse to celebrate their Messiah has been present from the beginning of the movement is beyond all question. Two of the Gospel accounts (Matthew and Luke) contain elaborate narratives associated with his birth. The Gospel of John celebrates Christ's existence prior to his human birth and Divine nature. Three of the Gospel accounts (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) relate events surrounding his baptism, and all four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) have detailed accounts of the events surrounding his death and resurrection. In other words, the foundations for these celebrations of the life of Christ were laid by the authors of the canonical Gospels themselves!
We would also be remiss not to mention the fact that Christ himself said that he came to this earth to fulfill the Law and the Prophets of the Hebrew Bible! Indeed, the Gospels are literally full of passages from the Hebrew Bible which it is claimed that Jesus fulfilled. Moreover, in numerous of his epistles, Paul suggests that things in Torah pointed to Jesus Christ, and that he constituted the reality which they symbolically portrayed. And, finally, in the anonymously authored epistle to the Hebrews, Jesus is quite explicitly tied to the temple, priesthood, sacrificial system, and Sabbaths of the collection of writings known to us as the Old Testament.
Now, the rites of Baptism and the Eucharist are undoubtedly the oldest celebrations of the Christian Church (ekklesia). However, we know that the celebration of Christ's resurrection began almost immediately after that event. Indeed, in other posts on this blog, we have demonstrated that Christian worship on the first day of the week was well-entrenched by the conclusion of the First Century. Likewise, from the writings of a Christian Bishop named Hippolytus, we know that Christians had already begun giving serious consideration to fixing a date to celebrate Christ's birth.
According to the Biblical Archaeology Society, Hippolytus based his calculations on the widespread belief that God organized events throughout the cosmos to happen in conjunction with seasonal and celestial events. In this case, the calculation was that the date of Christ's conception had occurred on the vernal equinox of that year (March 25). Hence, nine months later would make December 25 the date of his birth! Moreover, as no one actually knew the precise date of Christ's birth by that time (early in the Third Century), the bishop's calculations seemed like a reasonable estimation to many within the Church (the Eastern Church made a similar calculation, but their starting point was in early April). At any rate, the date eventually caught on, and the rest is history.
Personally, I wish to make clear that I believe that it is completely appropriate to celebrate any and all of the events surrounding the life of Jesus of Nazareth. Moreover, I believe that Bishop Hippolytus of Rome's calculations regarding the date of Christ's birth were sincere and are fine (especially from the vantage point of longstanding tradition). Nevertheless, as I have already indicated here and elsewhere, I believe that Jesus was the fulfillment of Torah - including all things relative to the festivals which the ancient Israelites were commanded to keep.
Hence, while I agree with the presumption that God has organized significant events in "His" plans along a spiritual timeline, I now believe it is more likely that Christ's birth occurred sometime during the festival which portrayed him tabernacling in the flesh. The current celebrations are fine, and I participate in them. However, if we're taking an objective look at the available evidence, I would say that it is more likely that Jesus was born at the beginning of the Feast of Tabernacles/Booths/Temporary Dwellings. Anyway, that's my two cents.
31 comments:
There is no hard evidence that Jesus was a real person. All this speculation is based on biased and unreliable sources.
"They are his death just before Passover, and his resurrection which occurred on the following Sunday."
They are his death at Passover, and his resurrection which occurred on the following Sabbath evening.
There, I fixed it for you.
Thank you, but my statement didn't need to be fixed. Take a closer look at the pertinent passages of Scripture. When did he actually die? When did they get him into the ground? When was the wave sheaf offering presented? How did the Jews measure time? (Think, sundown to sundown)
There is evidence that Jesus was a real person, but you are absolutely right about this being speculative.
Lonnie Hendrix wrote, “The current celebrations are fine, and I participate in them. However, if we're taking an objective look at the available evidence, I would say that it is more likely that Jesus was born at the beginning of the Feast of Tabernacles/Booths/Temporary Dwellings.”
MY COMMENT – Agreed, Lonnie!
My recollection of the WCG explanation on this subject was that Jesus was probably born sometime in the fall because the shepherds were out in the fields tending their flocks, and that they wouldn’t be out in the fields during the winter time. Now, I don’t know if WCG explanation about the shepherds is true or not, but your statement of when you think Jesus was born is consistent with traditional WCG teaching of a fall birth.
I didn’t participate in the Christmas customs until long after I left R/WCG since the rest of my family who remained in the Church didn’t celebrate it. That changed when I became a father in my early 40s. In reference to Christmas and “worldly holidays”, I’ve had to ask myself which is worse: giving a child gifts at Christmas or terrorizing a child with false end time predictions that time is very short and that the world is about to end in 1972? Excerpted is an e-mail that I sent to a family member regarding giving my daughter Christmas gifts:
“…I give her gifts at Christmas. I do this because what will be remembered thirty years from now will not be the theological arguments against Christmas, but the fact that she didn’t get any Christmas gifts at all from her father. So, I give her gifts at Christmas – throw me in the lake of fire.”
I have had to discard almost everything in my mind that is sourced to Armstrongism and the Worldwide Church. I wouldn’t want my own daughter to think she’s different from other children – and excluded from activities her friends enjoy.
And why can’t Christians “Christianize” what was described to us in the WCG as a pagan holiday?
Richard
Richard,
Amen! Although on closer inspection, most of those "pagan" claims turned out to be duds too.
That's why I had to fix it for you.
Bullinger, in his Companion Bible Appendix 179, calculates that Christ was "begotten" on December 25 and born 280 days later on Ethanim 15 (Hebrew calendar) which was September 29, the first day of the feast of Tabernacles that year. A shocking commentary on this is, once I was reading an article written by Aloysius Fozdyke, an Australian Satanist insider and member of the Alpha Lodge of Australia and the International church of Satan, who was chiding and making fun of Christianity for getting the birth date of Christ wrong. The true date according to him, September 29! BTW, Fozdyke is not an atheist. He fully believes that both God and Jesus Christ are alive and well, but inferior to his god Satan.
Miller:
Nicely done. I would like to add not a point but a perspective.
The Hebrew holy days are rooted in the Torah whereas the Christian liturgical days are a part of the kerygma of the church. The kerygma of the church is the proclamation of the Gospel. The two types of observations are predicated differently. And I think that is why many Armstrongists have heartburn over Christian observances. They are looking for a model in the New Testament observances like what they see in the OT where the holy days are prescribed in the Torah. But in the New Testament there is a liberty and grace not found in the old. Paul speaks of people keeping different days as circumstances would suit them. That is a liberty that some cannot tolerate. It is a different mindset.
As for paganism, it is hard to get away from due to its ubiquity. Even when the Feast of Tabernacles, a harvest festival, was proclaimed in Israel there were pagan harvest feasts that were in parallel in surrounding nations. Harvest celebrations come at a certain time depending on hemisphere. Harvest celebration artifacts will tend to be similar. What is important is not the physical but the spiritual content.
Scout
There is at least one thing that I can concur with Miller:
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
Mishnah Menachot 10 (Koren - Steinsaltz) ... Once it grew dark, the court emissary says to those assembled: Did the sun set? The assembly says in response: Yes. The emissary repeats: Did the sun set? They again say: Yes. The court emissary next says to those assembled: Shall I reap the sheaves with this sickle? The assembly says in response: Yes. The emissary repeats: With this sickle? The assembly says: Yes. The court emissary then says to those assembled: Shall I place the gathered sheaves in this basket? The assembly says in response: Yes. The emissary repeats: In this basket? The assembly says: Yes...
Lev 23:11 And he shall elevate the sheaf [of firstfruits] before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall elevate it.
By rising on the first day of the Sabbaths (aka “first day of the week”) Jesus fulfilled firstfruits typology. The physical harvest began on the day after the Sabbath and so did the spiritual harvest.
My preference is that the earthquake on Friday afternoon, and the earthquake on Sunday morning ‘marked’ the death and resurrection of Jesus respectively.
What was advantageous in the year Christ died was that the first day of unleavened bread fell on a Sabbath. Those Jews who started the count to Pentecost on the day after the first day of unleavened bread, that is on the sixteenth, and those Jews who started the count after the Sabbath in Unleavened Bread both started the count on the same day. So that fifty days later both groups were together to observed Pentecost, the day of the sending of the holy spirit.
Lev 19:6 It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if aught remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire.
Lk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures TODAY AND TOMORROW, AND THE THIRD DAY I shall be perfected.
Lk 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
The “third day” is a Hebrew idiom for the day after the morrow. Christ was put to death on Friday (today), the ‘morrow’ was the Sabbath, and Sunday was the “third day”.
Jerusalem Talmud Shabbat 9:3: ‘R. Akiba fixed a Day for an onah, and a Night for an onah.' But the tradition is, that R. ELIAZAR BEN AZARIAH SAID, A DAY AND A NIGHT MAKE AN ONAH: AND A PART OF AN ONAH IS AS THE WHOLE. And a little after, R. Ismael computed a part of the onah for the whole."
From what R. Eliazar Ben Azariah, late first century early second century AD, said, “a day and a night”/ “onah”/24 hour period, had an idiomatic sense and this accords with the Bible. Compare “I will be there in a minute” - while a minute is technically 60 seconds no one really expects the wait will be 60 seconds. Along with 1 Samuel 30:11-13 and Est 4:16-5:1 it appears that “three days and three nights” was more idiomatic than literal.
I once watched a UCG presentation on the subject of the three days and nights. From what I remember they had six cubes three white and three black to represent the three day and three night. This implied that they didn’t understand the argument that is put forward for a Friday-Sunday death and resurrection. What they should have had, seeing that an ‘onah’ was a day and a night, that is one unit of time, was three cubes that were half white and half black.
The program was somewhat disingenuous in that they were interviewing people in the street about the conflict between the three days and nights and the Friday-Sunday death and resurrection. It would have better to have gone to a theological college with the conflict - but they might have heard something they wouldn’t want to hear.
Jesus Christ was born on October 13, 2 BC (Feast of Tabernacles). There was also Jesus Barabbas, whose name means "son of Abba," who was sent directly from heaven. He appeared to humanity in the flesh as a 30-year-old man and began His ministry on October 6, 29 AD (the Day of Atonement), marking the commencement of a Jubilee year. He was crucified on Friday, April 3, 33 AD (the 14th of Nisan), rested in the grave during a high/regular Sabbath (the 15th of Nisan), and resurrected on Sunday, April 5, 33 AD (the 16th of Nisan, the day of the wave sheaf offering).
During the 3.5 years of the first ministry to Judah, there were two figures named Jesus: Jesus Christ and Jesus Barabbas (Matthew 27:17). On several occasions, Jesus rebuked His disciples for referring to Him as Christ and warned them about a great deception that has persisted for nearly 2,000 years. He said, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in My name, saying, ‘I am Christ,’ and shall deceive many." The word "in" is translated from the Greek word "epi," which means "superimpose." Jesus was warning about those who would come and superimpose His name, misleading many to believe that He, Jesus, was the Christ. The world is currently primed to follow this false version of Jesus Christ, and this deception is nearing its final phase with the imminent arrival of a false Jesus Christ, who will appear alongside the unknown real Jesus Barabbas [son of Abba]. This event is expected to conclude the 3.5-year ministry aimed at confirming the covenant with the lost ten tribes.
John 5:43
I am come in my Father's name (Jesus Barabbas-son of Abba], and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name [Jesus Christ], him ye will receive.
9:25 By coincidence or design yesterday on the Sabbath I was reading up on Pentecost and the different ways it was counted back in the time of Christ and prior. I’m reading one book on it ATM. I came to the following conclusions:
1) The giving of the law on Pentecost is a Pharisee tradition that has no proof for it since for example the Israelites arrived at Mt Sinai on the 15th Sivan and the law was given three days later ie c. 17th. This is too late for Pentecost, which would more than likely have already passed.
2) The Sadducees who were in control of the Temple at the time of Christ kept the Aristocratic method to count Pentecost, which is what the early Church seemed to follow ie they counted from the day after the weekly Sabbath that fell during the FOUB not the annual Sabbath as the Pharisees (which always led to a Sivan 6 Pentecost). My question is since in years like 2025 when we have the 14th Nisan on Sabbath and 15th Nisan on Sunday and this has led to one group of Christians in the COGs counting from the 15th to Pentecost while another group counts from the 22nd to Pentecost. Do you have any evidence with all your material that supports how the early Church would have counted it back then in years like 2025 ie 15/1 or 22/1 as wavesheaf which would lead to an earlier or later Pentecost respectively?
"What was advantageous in the year Christ died was that the first day of unleavened bread fell on a Sabbath."
Actually, it fell on a Thursday. That's why Christ had to be buried quickly before the Sabbath (1st ULB), then the women rested on the Sabbath (weekly) before going to the tomb early on the first day of the week to properly prepare the body.
6:21 said: “Actually, it fell on a Thursday. That's why Christ had to be buried quickly before the Sabbath (1st ULB), then the women rested on the Sabbath (weekly) before going to the tomb early on the first day of the week to properly prepare the body.”
Nah His crucifixion was on Preparation day ie the sixth day of the week or Friday. The next day was the weekly Sabbath and also an annual Sabbath making that weekly Sabbath a “great” Sabbath. That’s why John wrote thus in 19:31 “The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,)…” If it was a week day ie not the weekly Sabbath there would have been no point for him to describe it as “that Sabbath day” he would have simply described it like “that day was a Sabbath.” Anyway just my opinion.
Hi 4:44
Unfortunately I do not have any evidence. But if you continue to look into it and find some I would like to hear about it. Below is something from Nehemia Gordon, unfortunately he does not provide any references:
Num 33:3a-ba1 And they will remove from Rameses in the first month, in the fifteenth day to the first month: on the morrow [mimahorat] of the passover [happesah] (SLT).
Jos 5:11 And they will eat from the grain [‘abuwr] of the land from the morrow [mimahorat] of the passover [happesah], unleavened [massot] and roasted [qaluii] in the self-same day. (LSV)
Lev 23:14a And you do not eat bread [lehem] and roasted grain [qalui] and full ears until this very day, until your bringing in the offering of your God (SLT).
"The third faction, the Sadducees, agreed with the Essenes that Shavuot must be counted from a weekly Sabbath, but disagreed as to which one. The Sadducees believed the 50-day count must begin on the weekly Sabbath that falls out during the seven-days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. According to their reckoning, the counting towards Shavuot could begin anywhere from the 15th to the 21st day of the month, depending on what day of the week the Feast of Unleavened Bread began. If Unleavened Bread began on a Sunday, the count would begin on the 15th day of the month. If Unleavened Bread began on a Saturday, the count would begin on the 16th day of the month, and so on. Based on this counting, Shavuot could fall out from the 4th to the 12th of the Third Hebrew Month. Karaite Jews have accepted the Sadducee reckoning as the only one to be consistent with the plain meaning of the biblical text" (Nehemia Gordon, The Truth About Shavuot, nehemiaswall.com/truth-shavuot, June 3, 2022).
Some other points to the thread.
For me non-atonement holy days are not annual sabbaths but sabbathons — the “on” is a diminutive.
No where in the OT are the spring holy days referred to as sabbaths or sabbathons. That they are sabbathons is implied through the principle of “gap-filling” — the fall holy days provided the designation while the spring holy days the definition, specifically Ex 12:16b — one may prepare meals on a sabbathon but not on a sabbath.
But if you follow the Pharisees’ definition, then the first day of unleavened bread is a sabbath.
For me the preferred date for the crucifixion was Friday April 7, AD 30. This implies that the beginning of the first half of Jesus’ prophetic week began in AD 26.
In my previous post I should have included 1 Cor 15:23; I have updated it with a couple of quotes, which may be of interest:
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:22b For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
"The firstfruits points us to the first sheaf of the harvest, which was brought to the temple and offered to God (Lev. 23:10f.); it consecrated the whole harvest. Moreover, firstfruits imply later fruits. Both thoughts are here. Christ was not the first to rise from the dead. Indeed, he had himself raised some. But they would die in due course. His resurrection was to a life that knows no death, and in that sense he was the first and the forerunner of all those who were to be in him; ‘the resurrection of Christ is a pledge and proof of the resurrection of his people' (Hodge)" (Leon Morris, 1 Corinthians, TNTC, p. 205).
Part 2
"... the main point of Paul's parallelism between Adam and Christ (as in Romans 5) is that, like Adam, Christ is the progenitor of a race, of a new humanity. The resurrection marks the beginning of this new creation: Jesus is ‘the first-born among many brethren' (Rom 8:29): ‘if any one is in Christ, a new creation!' (Cf. 2 Cor. 5:17)" (David Prior, 1 Corinthians, BST, pp. 267-68).
"It is important to recognize here the notion of representation. Adam stands as the representative of an entire group of people (all human beings), and what happened to him will happen to all those in that group — all human beings will die. Christ too stands as the representative of an entire group of people, but in this case it is not all human beings, but only those who have believed in him. Thus the "all" of v.22b is more limited that the "all" of v.22a. Paul's emphasis here is that the "all" who will be made alive are all those who are “in Christ." " (Verlyn D. Verbrugge, 1 Corinthians, EBC, rev. ed., Vol. 11, p. 396).
The “third day” idiom is so overwhelming in confirming the Friday-Sunday death and resurrection that I have provided a list of scriptures below.
My apologies to the person who doesn’t like machine-gunning of Scriptures - but it is about supporting the timing of the death and resurrection of the Savior:
Introducing the Hebrew “third day” idiom:
1Sa 20:5 And David said unto Jonathan, Behold, tomorrow is the new moon, and I should not fail to sit with the king at meat: but let me go, that I may hide myself in the field unto the third day at even.
1Sa 20:12a And Jonathan said unto David, O LORD God of Israel, when I have sounded my father about tomorrow any time, or the third day,
“third day. In the Hebrew idiom, this means the day after tomorrow...” (S. Goldman, revised by Ephraim Oratz, Samuel, Soncino Books of the Bible, p.122).
“Third day” idiom on the lips of Jesus:
Mt 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again THE THIRD DAY.
Mt 17:23 And they shall kill him, and THE THIRD DAY he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.
Mt 20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and THE THIRD DAY he shall rise again.
Mk 9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise THE THIRD DAY.
Mk 10:34 And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and THE THIRD DAY he shall rise again.
Lk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised THE THIRD DAY.
Lk 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and THE THIRD DAY he shall rise again.
Lk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead THE THIRD DAY:
“Third day” idiom on the lips of others:
Mt 27:63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
Mt 27:64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until THE THIRD DAY, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
Lk 24:7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and THE THIRD DAY rise again.
Lk 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today is THE THIRD DAY since these things were done.
Ac 10:40 Him God raised up THE THIRD DAY, and showed him openly;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again THE THIRD DAY according to the scriptures:
Part 3
“Third day” idiom in the Old Testament:
Ex 19:10 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes,
Ex 19:11 And be ready against THE THIRD DAY: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.
Lev 7:16 But if the sacrifice of his offering be a vow, or a voluntary offering, it shall be eaten the same day that he offereth his sacrifice: and on the morrow also the remainder of it shall be eaten:
Lev 7:17 But the remainder of the flesh of the sacrifice on THE THIRD DAY shall be burnt with fire.
Lev 19:6 It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if aught remain until THE THIRD DAY, it shall be burnt in the fire.
Hos 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in THE THIRD DAY he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
“Third day” idiom in the New Testament:
Lk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
Compare also
1Sa 30:12b for he had eaten no bread, nor drunk any water, three days and three nights. (AV).
1Sa 30:13 and my lord left me because I was sick THE third day. (SLT).
2Ch 10:5 And he said unto them, Come again unto me AFTER THREE DAYS. And the people departed.
yoke: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.
2Ch 10:12 So Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam ON THE THIRD DAY, as the king bade, saying, Come again to me on the third day.
Est 4:16aα Go collect together all the Jews being found in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and ye shall not eat and ye shall not drink THREE DAYS, NIGHT AND DAY
Est 5:1a Now it came to pass on THE THIRD DAY, that Esther put on her royal apparel, and stood in the inner court of the king's house, over against the king's house
Mk 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and AFTER THREE DAYS rise again.
Mk 9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise THE THIRD DAY.
Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mt 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again THE THIRD DAY.
Mt 27:63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, AFTER THREE DAYS I will rise again.
“Matthew is untroubled by what appears to us to be a discrepancy between after three days [27:63] and on the third day found in 16:21” (Douglas R. A. Hare, Matthew, Interpretation, p.142).
So 6:21, did Jesus rise on the “third day” or did he rise “after three days”.
Ummm, the first day of ULB is a Sabbath, an annual Sabbath, the high day that John refrenced. It fell on a Thursday that year.
That is why Jesus had to be buried quickly before the Sabbath, and how the women spend a day buying spices, etc. (Friday) and then rested on the Sabbath (weekly), before going to the tomb before sunrise on the first day of the week (Sunday) and found it empty.
Your assertion that Jesus was killed and buried on Friday, spends one day in the grave and is resurrected on Sunday doesn't really fit with the scriptures, does it?
Amen.
GD said:
Jesus Christ was born on October 13, 2 BC (Feast of Tabernacles). There was also Jesus Barabbas, whose name means "son of Abba," who was sent directly from heaven. He appeared to humanity in the flesh as a 30-year-old man and began His ministry on October 6, 29 AD (the Day of Atonement), marking the commencement of a Jubilee year. He was crucified on Friday, April 3, 33 AD (the 14th of Nisan), rested in the grave during a high/regular Sabbath (the 15th of Nisan), and resurrected on Sunday, April 5, 33 AD (the 16th of Nisan, the day of the wave sheaf offering).
During the 3.5 years of the first ministry to Judah, there were two figures named Jesus: Jesus Christ and Jesus Barabbas (Matthew 27:17). On several occasions, Jesus rebuked His disciples for referring to Him as Christ and warned them about a great deception that has persisted for nearly 2,000 years. He said, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in My name, saying, ‘I am Christ,’ and shall deceive many." The word "in" is translated from the Greek word "epi," which means "superimpose." Jesus was warning about those who would come and superimpose His name, misleading many to believe that He, Jesus, was the Christ. The world is currently primed to follow this false version of Jesus Christ, and this deception is nearing its final phase with the imminent arrival of a false Jesus Christ, who will appear alongside the unknown real Jesus Barabbas [son of Abba]. This event is expected to conclude the 3.5-year ministry aimed at confirming the covenant with the lost ten tribes.
John 5:43
I am come in my Father's name (Jesus Barabbas-son of Abba], and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name [Jesus Christ], him ye will receive.
Interesting theory, but if you’re going to rely on the NT gospels and other NT writings to support this theory then how do you explain those numerous passages in those same NT writings that support Jesus and His disciples believing and teaching He was the Messiah?
Anon @ 7:54
Great question! While a full answer would require much more context, here’s a brief response.
To begin exploring this, note that Jesus always rebuked anyone who called Him Christ because He did not identify Himself that way.
Matthew 16:20 (KJV)
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Mark 8:29-30 (NET)
He asked them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter answered him, “You are the Christ.”Then he warned them not to tell anyone about him.
Luke's account offers further context:
Luke 9:20-21
Then he said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter answered, “The Christ of God.” But he forcefully commanded them not to tell this to anyone.
Building on these examples, Jesus offers a thoughtful warning in Matthew 24:5: "For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray." In other words, many will come and superimpose the name of Jesus to claim He is the Christ, when He is not, thereby misleading many.
Additionally, we encounter a direct question posed by the high priest to Jesus: "Are you the Christ, the son of the Blessed?" (Mark 14:61).
Here is the correct translation of the answer from Jesus:
Mark 14:62
And Jesus said, "I am not (negating particle δὲ was not translated), and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven."
Here are a few questions to summarise this subject:
1. Was Jesus ever anointed as king of the Jews to say that He was officially "the Christ"? NO
Building on that,
2. Did Jesus warn of a deception that many would say He was the Christ? YES
Continuing,
3. Is the Kingdom the Jews are waiting for their Messiah to rule an Earthly one? YES
Similarly,
4. Was Jesus' kingdom an Earthly Kingdom? NO
Next,
5. Did Jesus claim to be the Son of the FATHER (ABBA) in heaven? YES
Finally,
6. Did Jesus claim to carry the FATHER'S name (ABBA)? YES
Once again, "I have come in my Father’s name [Jesus Barabbas-son of ABBA], and you do not accept me. If someone else comes in his own name [Jesus Christ], you will accept him" (John 5:43 NET).
Ask yourself which Jesus has been accepted by many?
Anon 6:21 & Anon 4:48
The phrase “three days and three nights” in Scripture is not meant to be taken literally. In Hebrew culture, inclusive reckoning was used: any part of a day was counted as a full day. For example, even a few minutes of a day were considered one whole day. Ignoring this principle would create contradictions in the Bible.
Jesus used various expressions about His death:
• “Three days and three nights” (Matthew 12:40)
• “After three days” (Mark 8:31)
• “In three days” (John 2:19)
• “The third day” (multiple times)
These are harmonised by understanding inclusive reckoning, the standard biblical method of counting time. In Luke 13:32-33, Jesus clarified: “Today, tomorrow, and the third day,” showing the third day follows tomorrow. Thus, the first day includes the starting point, the second day is the next full day, and the third day is the day after that.
Inclusive reckoning explains why these time references are consistent and avoids confusion. The Jewish Encyclopaedia confirms this principle: "A short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though, of the first day, only a few minutes after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day.” Vol. 4, p. 475.
This should leave COG members asking hard questions about the doctrine of when Jesus' ministry began, and when He was resurrected. Did HWA get it right and the offshoots?
The only Passover that fits the Biblical reckoning of counting “three days and three nights” in line with Jesus' season of ministering to Judah, is Friday, the 3rd of April 33 AD!
And it lines up with the fulfilment of prophecy centred on the Passover season in Leviticus 23, the foreshadowing of the fulfilment by Jesus:
1. Fourteenth day (14th of Nisan – Friday, 3rd of April 33 AD) – Slaying of the Passover lamb – Jesus crucified
2. Fifteenth day (15th of Nisan – Saturday 4th of April 33 AD) – Feast of Unleavened Bread – Jesus rested in the grave. It was also a regular Sabbath day and a high day (John 19:31). Jesus rested in the tomb on the Sabbath. Even in death, He obeyed the law!
3. Sixteenth day (16th of Nisan – Sunday, 5th of April 33 AD) – First fruits of harvest presented (wave sheaf offering). Jesus resurrected on the morning of the “third day” and ascended to the Father to fulfil the wave sheaf offering. The wave sheaf was offered on the “morrow after the Sabbath” (Lev 23:10-11). It was a regular Sabbath and a high day (again John 19:31). This is precisely what happened in 33 AD!
G. D. writes:
“The only Passover that fits the Biblical reckoning of counting “three days and three nights” in line with Jesus' season of ministering to Judah, is Friday, the 3rd of April 33 AD!”
I disagree. The date I prefer, as mentioned above, is April 7, AD 30. AD 27 is debatable, but it is too early.
“The result of this investigation ... is that the two most probable dates, astronomically and calendrically, are Friday, April 7, A.D. 30, and Friday, Apr 3, AD 33” (Jack Finegan, Handbook of Biblical Chronology, p. 364). Jack Finegan prefers the latter date.
G. D. writes:
“This event is expected to conclude the 3.5-year ministry aimed at confirming the covenant with the lost ten tribes.”
My two cents:
Da 9:27 And HE shall confirm the covenant [lit., "shall cause a covenant to be strong"] with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
Da 9:26b and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Who is the “He” of 9:27? The nearest antecedent is the “prince” of 9:26b.
It is suggested that the “prince” is the Antichrist. When the people of the prince attack Jerusalem there is around 3.5 years to the return of the Christ.
In the historical ‘type’ the people of the prince was led by “Apollonius (2 Macc 5:24)/“chief collector of tribute” (1 Macc 1:29).
The people of the prince [Antiochus] began the OT tribulation and the people of a future prince [the Antichrist] will begin the NT tribulation.
Da 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, AND TO ANOINT THE MOST HOLY [qodes qadasim].
At the end of the NT tribulation Christ will begin his second half week and 3.5 years later the seventy weeks will be fulfilled or nearly fulfilled depending on when 43:1-7a occurs. And then the Christ returns to heaven.
Eze 43:4 And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
Eze 43:6 And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
Eze 43:7a And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever,
Ezekiel 43, after the end of the second half of Christ’s prophetic week, is the counterpart to Acts 2, after the end of the first half of Christ’s prophetic week.
Anon 2:04 PM
Yes, the date of April 7, 30 AD is debatable, but the strongest evidence for the correct timing is the beginning of John's ministry.
Luke recorded the timing of the beginning of John’s ministry in Luke 3:1: -
• “Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judea…''.
There was a co-regency between Augustus and Tiberius to rule Rome, beginning in 12 AD. However, the official date of Tiberius's reign began on 17 September 14 AD, when he became Roman Emperor. The word "reign" in Luke 3:1 is the Greek word "hegemonia," used only in this verse. It means "chief command, rule, sovereignty"—referring to the sole, sovereign rule of a Roman emperor, not a co-regency.
The Roman denarius bearing the head of Tiberius was minted from September 14 AD onward, as documented by historical and archaeological records. Thus, the official 15th year of Tiberius's reign would be from 29 AD to 30 AD. Jack Finegan wrote about this in detail, devoting about fourteen pages to the subject (pages 329-343 of his chronology handbook). He shows that Tiberius reigned from August 19, A.D. 14, when Augustus Caesar died, through March 16, A.D. 37.
Under Roman law, the first year is called the year of succession, not a full year of rule. Roman historians like Tacitus and Suetonius confirm this (see Finegan, p. 340). This means Tiberius's reign is counted from A.D. 15. So, John the Baptist would have started his ministry in A.D. 29.
John was a Levite, and his ministry would have started at age 30 (Numbers 4:30). If John began his ministry in 29AD, the 15th year of Tiberius, then Jesus started His ministry six months later in the Fall of 29 AD, when he was about 30 years old (Luke 3:23), precisely on the Day of Atonemement when He read the scroll of Isaiah 61:1-2 (Luke 4:16-21). Jesus began His ministry in a Jubilee year (29 AD) and announced the fulfilment of the prophecy Isaiah recorded (Luke 4:21)!
In summary, John began his ministry around the Days of Unleavened Bread in 29 AD, in Tiberius Caesar's 15th year, at age 30. About six months later, Jesus began His ministry in the Fall of 29 AD at about age 30 (Luke 3:23). Adding 3.5 years of the first ministry of Jesus brings us to Spring 33 AD, when He was crucified on Passover, April 3rd.
I will answer the second part about Daniel 9:27 in a separate comment.
Thanks G.D for your reply.
I am not convinced, as one could expect: Jack Finegan wrote:
"In assessment of the bewildering variety of dates just assembled, it is obvious that the earliest dates of the regnal years of Tiberius by reckoning of his joint rule of the provinces with Augustus (probably beginning in the month of October in A.D. 12) as the initial point... For such a manner of reckoning there is possible evidence in Tertullian's Against Marcion where the author says in place (1.15) that "the Lord has been revealed since the twelfth year of Tiberius Caesar," and in another place (1.19): "In the fifteenth year of Tiberius, Christ Jesus vouchedsafed to come from heaven." It is possible that the dual and at first sight contradictory dating can be explained by supposing that the fifteenth years are counted from the time of the joint rule of the provinces, and the twelve years are full calendars after the death of Augustus..., both references therefore indicating the same year A.U.C. 779 = A.D. 26). Otherwise, however, as far as known ancient sources do not count Tiberius' own reign from what was only his joint rule with Augustus, so this manner of reckoning may be left out of further consideration in relation to Luke 3:1" (Jack Finegan, Handbook of Biblical Chronology, Revised Edition, p.337).
The issue here is not how others counted the beginning of reigns, but how did Luke?
Lk 3:2a during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas
Ac 4:6 And Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas,
"Luke adds a dating of peculiar importance to Jews, namely reference to the high-priesthood. Annas was high priest AD 6-15, when the Roman governor Gratus deposed him. Five of his sons became high priest in due course, and Caiaphas, who held the office AD 18-36, was his son-in-law. Luke uses the singular, which shows that he knew Caiaphas was actually in office, but that Annas still exercised great influence, perhaps even was regarded by many Jews as the true high priest (cf. Acts 4:6;...). It may be worth pointing out that when Jesus was arrested he was first brought to Annas (Jn. 18:13)" (Leon Morris, Luke, TNTC, pp.111-12).
" "We get nowhere by considering how Tiberius himself counted the years of his reign or how the years were generally counted. What matters is how Luke counted them." This Greijdanus ... believes that Luke was thinking of actual, not merely formal, years of reigns, as his reference to Annas-Caiphas indicates" (William Hendriksen, Luke, NTC, p.198).
"In Luke 3:1, 2 the analogy with the Annas-Caiaphas reference confirms the conclusion that Luke is thinking of the actual reign of Tiberius, which began with the latter's coregency, and that he is not thinking of Tiberius' sole rulership began at the time of the death of Tiberius" (S. Greijdanus, Konnentaar, Vol. I, p.140)" (William Hendriksen, Luke, NTC, p.198).
Can you confirm that Luke and Tiberius used the same reckoning?
I prefer, not without its difficulties, to see the count of the 483 beginning in 458-457 BC (with inclusive reckoning).
Anon 2:04
To continue, this is the second part, briefly explaining the 70-week prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27.
This prophecy presents a timeline that centres on the ministry of Jesus: it predicts the beginning of His ministry, the establishment of the New Covenant, His death, the subsequent destruction of Jerusalem, and the abomination of desolation that precedes His return to establish everlasting righteousness.
The 70-week prophecy in verse 24 focuses on Israel, Jerusalem, and the Messiah—not the antichrist. It speaks of 69 weeks to the start of Jesus’ 3.5-year ministry, the New Covenant, His crucifixion, the abomination of desolation, and Jesus’ return to establish God’s everlasting kingdom on earth.
Verse 27 is widely seen as controversial and is often attributed to the so-called antichrist. However, it actually refers to the Messiah as the primary subject. The Messiah confirms a covenant through His ministry (Mark 14:24), is "cut off" (crucified) mid-week [after 3.5 years], and fulfils the prophecy with His ultimate sacrifice, ending Old Testament sacrifices. Significantly, the Bible does not mention a covenant of the antichrist elsewhere, and doctrine cannot be built on a single verse.
A paraphrased explanation of Daniel 9:26b places the next event in the timeline after the Messiah is cut off: an invading prince destroys Jerusalem and the Temple. This is historically matched by the Roman army's conquest of Jerusalem and the Temple's destruction within a generation after Jesus' death.
That leaves us with the last 3.5 years still to be fulfilled. This is the Matthew 13 mustard seed kingdom, which Jesus explained in all the Matthew 13 parables, i.e., the mystery of the kingdom of God (Mark 4:11), when the gospel is preached to all nations (Matthew 24:14) during a time of persecution, "But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." (Matthew 10:23).
This is the same 3.5 years that are mentioned in the book of Revelation five times (Rev 11:2; 11:3; 12:6;12:14; 13:5), and it will be a cataclysmic battle between Satan, his two "witnesses" [king of the Holy Roman Empire & false prophet], versus Jesus and the two witnesses of Revelation 11.
Thanks G. D for sharing your understanding on the “seventy weeks”.
Of course I do not agree with your interpretation.
We could argue back and forth on the subject, but I would like to comment regarding “and fulfils the prophecy with His ultimate sacrifice, ending Old Testament sacrifices”.
For me there will be new covenant sacrifices for “purifying the flesh,” according to Old Testament Scriptures:
Jer 33:15 In those days, and at that time,
Jer 33:16 In those days
Jer 33:17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
Jer 33:18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.
Eze 20:40 For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of your oblations, with all your holy things.
Eze 20:41 I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen.
Looking at the Ezekielian Torah:
Some public sacrifices:
Eze 43:18 Then he said to me: Son of man, thus says the Lord GOD: These are the statutes for the altar when it is set up for sacrificing burnt offerings and splashing blood on it.
Eze 43:20 You shall take some of its blood and smear it on the four horns of the altar, and on the four corners of the ledge, and all around its rim. Thus you shall purify and purge it.
Eze 45:18 Thus says the Lord GOD: On the first day of the first month you shall take an unblemished young bull to purify the sanctuary.
Eze 45:19 The priest shall take some of the blood from the purification offering and smear it on the doorposts of the house, on the four corners of the ledge of the altar, and on the doorposts of the gates of the inner courtyard.
Eze 45:22 On that day the prince shall sacrifice, on his own behalf and on behalf of all the people of the land, a bull as a purification offering.
Eze 45:17 It shall be the duty of the prince to provide burnt offerings, grain offerings, and libations on feast days, new moons, and sabbaths, on all the festivals of the house of Israel. He shall provide the purification offering, grain offering, burnt offering, and communion offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel.
Eze 45:23 On each of the seven days of the feast he shall sacrifice, as a burnt offering to the LORD, seven bulls and seven rams without blemish, and as a purification offering he shall sacrifice one male goat each day.
Eze 46:13 Thou shalt daily prepare a burnt offering unto the LORD of a lamb of the first year without blemish: thou shalt prepare it every morning.
Private sacrifices:
Eze 44:27 on the day he [a Levitical priest] enters the inner court to serve in the sanctuary [after becoming ritual impure and going through the cleansing ritual], he shall present a purification offering for himself—oracle of the Lord GOD.
Eze 46:12 Now when the prince shall prepare a voluntary burnt offering or peace offerings voluntarily unto the LORD, one shall then open him the gate that looketh toward the east, and he shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, as he did on the sabbath day: then he shall go forth; and after his going forth one shall shut the gate.
Anon @ 8:15
The key to pinning down the year of reckoning in Luke's account lies in the word "reign" used to describe Tiberius's tenure. As explained already, it is Strong's Greek number G2231 and refers to the word "hēgemonia" (ἡγεμονία), which primarily denotes official rule or government. In the New Testament, it specifically refers to the official term or reign of a Roman emperor.
The Roman Senate formally granted Tiberius imperial rule on September 18, AD 14, after Augustus died on August 19, AD 14. While he previously shared powers, this date marks the official start of his reign.
Luke used a word for Tiberius's official reign, which began on September 18, AD 14. If he meant a co-regency, Luke would have used the Greek word συμβασιλεία (symbasileía) for joint kingship or co‑rule.
There are three other ways to prove Jesus began His ministry in the Fall of 29 AD. But that's for another time...
Anon @ 12:14
I appreciate your perspective on OT sacrifices. You’ve raised an interesting point about future sacrifices being restored. I have studied this subject extensively and will need to present it as an article for you to see the whole picture. At the right time, I will refer you to the article, as this forum is not sufficient for all the information.
Hi G.D
I will look forward to your perspective on the sacrifices.
I have a basic 83 page — text and graphics — article on the sacrificial system; which is entitled “God's Sacrificial Worship System — Old and New/Renewed Kingdom Covenants”.
I have also put together a 119 page Bible Study — text and graphics - on Ezekiel 45; and a 97 page study text and graphics on Ezekiel 46.
I also have a 47 page — text and graphics — study on Ezekiel’s altar; which works out as just under 9 pages per verse.
I have the feeling the above would be considered to pedantic for most people.
From first mentioned:
Why the Millennial Temple and Sacrifices? The same reason for the Old Testament Tabernacle and Sacrifices - the Presence of God:
... the tabernacle shall be sanctified by my glory... And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God. And they shall know that I am the LORD their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the LORD their God (Exodus 29:43, 45 & 46, AV).
Then the man brought me to the gate facing east, and I saw the glory of the God of Israel coming from the east. His voice was like the roar of rushing waters, and the land was radiant with his glory... The glory of the LORD entered the temple through the gate facing east ... I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever... (Ezekiel 43:1-7a, NIV & AV).
Zec 2:11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee...
Jesus Christ did “dwell” in the Tabernacle among the children of Israel (cp. Ex 29) and Jesus Christ will “dwell’ in the Millennial Temple among the children of Israel (Ezekiel 43) and the Gentiles - note the highlights.
Atonement and Fellowship in the Renewed Covenant
Eze 43:27 ... the priests shall make your burnt offerings [‘ola] upon the altar, and your fellowship offerings [selamim]; and I will accept you, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 40:39 ... tables ... to slay ... the sin offering [hatta’t] and the trespass offering [‘asam].
Eze 44:26a And after he is cleansed...
Eze 44:27 And ... goeth ... to minister in the sanctuary, he shall offer his purification offering [hatta’t] (AV).
It is observable from Ezekiel 40:39 and 44:26-27 that in the New Covenant sin and ritual impurity, respectively, “will continue to be a problem for the nation” (Daniel I. Block, The Book of Ezekiel Chapters 25-48, NICOT, p.659).
Dt 27:7 and you shall sacrifice [zebah] peace offerings [selamim] and shall eat there, and you shall rejoice before the LORD your God. (NASB 1977).
Eze 46:24 ... These are the kitchens where those who minister at the temple shall boil the sacrifice [zebah] of the people. (ESV).
It is inferred from Ezekiel 43:27 and 46:26 that the people will also “eat” and “rejoice before the Lord” in the New Covenant.
“As he had done through Moses ... through this prophet Yahweh reveals his magnanimous provision for forgiveness and fellowship with him” (Daniel I. Block, The Book of Ezekiel Chapters 25-48, NICOT, p.659).
Eze 45:17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths - at all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel. (NIV).
“The majority of dispensationalists have argued that the sacrifices are memorials to the sacrifice of Christ, with no atoning character. However, the idea that these are memorial sacrifices is no where apparent in Ezekiel, and it is specifically claimed by Ezekiel that these offerings will make atonement (45:15, 17, 20)” (Ian M. Duguid, Ezekiel, NIVAC, p.521).
Anon @ 6:39
Your research on the sacrifices is much more extensive than mine. But there are fundamental questions that must first be answered to understand the context of these sacrifices and the advent of the third temple.
Fundamental questions:
1. Who are the true Israelites?
2. Is Yahweh the Father, Jesus, or Satan?
Only when these two questions are answered correctly can the prophecies of the Bible be understood.
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