The Transcendence of God and the Ontological Nose

The Transcendence of God and the Ontological Nose

“He who planted the ear, does he not hear?

He who formed the eye, does he not see?”

Psalm 94:9

“God is spirit”

Words of Jesus, John 4:24

Consider the nose. We are all familiar with its form and function. It is a part of our respiratory system. With it we can smell flowers. But it also serves another less apparent purpose. It is evidence that God does not have a body.

God is an eternal spirit. This is his essence. Not only does he exist but he is the source of all existence, of all being. He is the creator. So everything that is, he made. He has never not existed. He is timeless. Without beginning and without end. Let us assume, for the sake of a thought experiment, that he has always had a nose. Not an acquired or created nose but a nose that is a part of his essential eternal nature. A timeless nose. At some point (this is awkward to state because God created time and is not in time), he had to ask himself “Why do I have this bodily projection with two passages in it? Why does it do the things that it does? I’ve just always had it.” The nose is ontologically co-existent with God. It is a complex piece of equipment. It has contouring and turbinates and little filtering hairs and all manner of built in capabilities. But the cosmos had not been created yet. Atmospheric gases had not been created yet. Proteins to form mucous had not been created yet. Atoms and molecules, for that matter, had not been created yet. Nor flowers to smell. God is Spirit so he had no need for these physical things. So the nose had no purpose. It had just been always there.

So one day god decided to make a man. And he decided to give the man this same bodily projection, this nose, and also give it a purpose. So God created atoms and gases and proteins. He made the man so he would require atmospheric gases to live. And gravity and metabolism and all manner of forces and principles to make the nose functional and purposeful. One might say that the entire creation was made to accommodate this nose. And God said to himself, “Now, this thing has meaning.” God gave the nose purpose and meaning but he always wondered why he had the nose in the first place.

This same scenario can be applied to the idea that God supposedly had a body as a part of his essence. What this scenario does is simply get the cart before the horse. The nose existed before it had any purpose. It categorizes God as created instead of creator. Critics might quickly reply that God had the nose because there was a spirit atmosphere and spirit gases and God breathed these spirit gases to survive. This means that God was contingent on something external to himself to stay alive. This is not a description of a necessary eternal spirit but of a created being. This is a mapping of the human condition onto God. It is a lèse-majesté. The idea that God is not dependent on a nose does not mean that God cannot “smell.” His sensory capabilities are infinite. He created odors and he knows everything about them, including how they would smell to the human nose. He just does not need a human nose to do this.

But what about Psalm 94:9? This is the kind of scripture that led Herbert W. Armstrong (HWA) to believe that God had a body. But it is human talk for humans to understand. What is technical for us in the created realm is allegory for God in the essential eternal realm. God does not have ears for the same reason he does not have a nose. He is not limited by waves propagated through a gaseous atmosphere that would strike a tympanum and activate hammer and anvil and be converted into the sensation of sound. We can be thankful that he is not limited by hearing as we know it because he would not be able to sort out the myriad of prayers directed to him every day. Those prayers would not even be transmitted across the vacuum of space. David used the term “hear” in Psalm 94 because that was what David understood and what would communicate to his readers. It is just an allegory for God’s actual absolute capability to sense and know all things. His ability to know transcends all physics and physiology based human sensory systems – hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling, seeing. Another way of saying this is that God is not dependent on his own creation.

I do not believe that Herbert W. Armstrong intended to diminish God by teaching erroneously that God has a body. I think he just took anthropomorphisms at face value and moved on. HWA has left us no carefully reasoned exegesis that deals with the issue of anthropomorphism. He never addressed the topic of why if God had a human-like body, it did not create crippling limitations for him as he sustained the cosmos. And the idea of an anthropomorphic God was never challenged by members of the WCG so as to lead to a review and revision of the topic. The idea just never received the attention that it deserved because of circumstance.

It is blatantly obvious that the human body was designed to function in an earthly environment - an environment that came into existence when God created the cosmos. Why would God possess in his eternal essence a body that is earth adapted before there was an earth? Was his body designed for some environment? Who then designed his body for that environment? And who designed the environment? Was there something external to God that was already in existence – an environment that required a nose? If that is true, then God is not the creator of all things. Someone else greater than God was in the picture. This line of argument is called reductio ad absurdum.

Submitted by Neo

Crackpot Prophet Says There Is No Other Church That Is FIlled With As Much Truth And Church History Than What He Has. Hysterical Laughing Ensues...

It's another sunny day in California and the Grover Beach Prophet Extraordinaire is beating his chest with his flailing wrists proclaiming to us all how magnificent he and his little group is. Never in the history of the entire world has there been a Church of God that is as glorious as his. 

Not since the original apostles walked the dusty Galaleeian hills has there been a church leader as our Great Bwana to Africa, the doubly-blessed, the self-appointed incarnation of Elijah and Elisha, the modern-day Joshua and Amos, the soon to be first Witless Witness who will be killed by the Great Beast of Europe Baron Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg in the streets of Jerusalem so we can all watch him be resurrected at the start of his armageddon. 

Once he lets 2/3 rd's of humanity die, he will immediately begin working with his creature called "christ" to set up the proper church government to rule the remaining heathens of the world. Both his "christ" and Herbert Armstrong will be his right-hand men in this planning process, though they will have to defer their power to him because he is so magnificent. 

But in the meantime, it is important for all true believers to understand which is the right Church of God to belong to and who that leader is.

Notice a way to tell which church is the correct one:

4 For the word of the Lord is right, And all His work is done in truth. (Psalms 33:4)

Only a church that does God’s work in truth would possibly be the one that God endorses. Jesus said that knowing the truth sets one free (John 8:32). 

 

While it is difficult to measure which church has the most truth, let me state that when it comes to church history and prophecy, that would have to be the Continuing Church of God in the 21st century. There are many links in the Statement of Beliefs of the Continuing Church of God. To see some more details on that consider Continuing History of the Church of God and The Laodicean Church Era (prophetic differences between CCOG and other COGs are summarized there). For longer versions and more details, there are numerous articles at the COGwriter.com and CCOG.org websites that go into more depth on matters of history, doctrine, and prophecy. 

The smooth talk and lies just roll off the tongue of this self-appointed false prophet! 

There is more truth about church history and prophecy at the COGwriter.com and CCOG websites than any other group that I am aware of. 

 

How can you know if that is actually true?

Well, we would recommend that you be like the Bereans of old:

10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. (Acts 17:10-11)

If you search the scriptures diligently you will find it IMPOSSIBLE to not follow Bwana Bob Thiel!  Yeah right, Buckwheat! Tell us another tall tale. Also, do NOT spend your time trying to disprove him, it would be impossible to do.

The Bereans did not know whether or not the Apostle Paul was who he claimed to be, but after hearing him, they thought he could be a teacher from God. They did not spend their time trying to disprove him, but searched the scriptures daily to verify that he was teaching the truth. That is what we in the the Continuing Church of God suggest you do today.

Did you know that one of the reasons Bwana Bob and his little band of Merry Men are so significant is that no one in the history of the church had real books with pages you can turn, such as his, and computers to search for information on? 

Of course, if you are willing to be like the Bereans of old, it will take more than five seconds to check if something is true. Particularly since the scriptures in the Bereans’ day were written on scrolls that had to be unrolled. You could not flip to a page in a book or do an electronic search in those days.

Or, watch the most amazing animated gospel messages that the world has ever seen! 

Anyway, with God’s help you can change as the Apostle Paul taught:

13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. (Philippians 4:13)

How? 

 

The New Testament teaches:

6 … “God resists the proud,

But gives grace to the humble.”

7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up. (James 4:6-10) 

 

Do not let pride get in the way. Do not be double-minded–do the right thing.

Proverbs teaches:

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,

And lean not on your own understanding;

6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,

And He shall direct your paths.

7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;

Fear the Lord and depart from evil.

8 It will be health to your flesh,

And strength to your bones. (Proverbs 3:5-8) 

 

You might not think you have any evil to depart from, but if according to the word of God, you are not a real Christian or a Laodicean one (Revelation 3:14-19), you do. 

You are not a real Christian if you follow Bwana Bob and are a member of the improperly named "continuing church of god". It is impossible to be one.  To remain in his group is to be just as spiritually sick as those who are in the Restored Church of God and the Philadephia Church of God. God desires his followers to be free, not bound up in some legalist claptrap personality cult of Armstrongism.

Apostle Pack and "Everything in Common"

 Acts 2:44-47 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the LORD added to their number daily those who were being saved.

I have no idea how "all things common" actually works and translates in Dave Pack's Restored Church of God. It seems a practice, however it plays out in reality, that is kept close to RCG's inner workings. I find nothing of it openly or publicly stated as part of one's RCG experience to come should they affiliate with RCG

But I do understand what it doesn't mean and how it played out in the early Church.   

Dave Pack has, in the past, made it clear that members putting aside any funds for their personal and future needs is showing a lack of faith. From  putting off  giving Dave ones' resources in their Will to a personal retirement, "We need that money NOW!" is more the course demanded by Apostle Pack.

But first, let's remind ourselves what Apostle Dave's over-all attitude about what and how a truly faithful member needs to understand about "sending it in".  No wonder once one has depleted all their assets for the sake of Dave's mistaken visions, they better believe in "All things common"  as they can't pull big triggers and "Send it in" more than once and then what?

Let the Deceiver and "worthless shepherd" speak for himself 

https://exitsupportnetwork.com/expose-of-clarion-call-the-time-is-now/#4

" Will you cling to your substance? …We don’t have many years. We have plans so big going on in this office that it would cause this room to rock and gyrate if you knew what was going on. We just need a lot of money and we need it post haste!"

"We used to have this idea in the church…We would all be asked to go gather all our resources, our assets, tap our savings account, drain the equity from our home, run our credit cards to the limit, maybe were weren’t going to have to pay them back, before we went to the place of safety. We’d cash in our IRA’s, our Pension Funds, cash our stocks; redeem our gold and silver and precious stones. We all talked about this. This was understood. And then we would give it to the church for the last big blast before the Work ended. Thousands, indeed tens of thousands believed that. I did and I taught it many a time....There’s one problem with it— it’s absolutely impossible. It’s not a believable concept and it’s simply unbiblical. It’s not possible... but nobody ever thought about why that’s simply false."

"If you hold those riches, I’m telling you, you trust in them! [chastising voice]…I am charged by God, reading this verse to charge all of you out there in the Work, in the church, who have assets. You have a home that’s paid off? [yelling] Go get a big chunk out of your home and put your money where your mouth is and send it here! And I’m not talking one, two, three thousand either! How about ten, twenty, thirty, fifty, a hundred thousand dollars— Go do it!! Woo hoo, Mr. Pack, you got serious! [mimicking voice] You haven’t heard anything yet— keep listening. [said with haughty attitude]"

" [Voice gets very stern] If you’re not “ready to distribute,” you’re not “willing to communicate” to Headquarters about it then obviously, you don’t care what God says! You have rejected the scriptural charge given! [Says with disgust] Have the courage to admit you don’t believe that God’s government is here. You don’t believe the flow of prophecy. But if you don’t believe the verse, then admit that you are not going to lay up store in time to come except in your earthly treasure house. Admit that. Now I want to summarize again. This is not a special offering after the fashion of the last three. This is announcing the last blast— the Clarion Call as it were, to finish the Work. Whether it’s 4, 5, 7 or 9 years to go, God knows. But what this is, is a sea change in thinking in effect in the 2000-year history of the church. It’s not a call to simply sacrifice from month to month by reducing your cable bill or turning your air conditioner off a little bit. This is liquidating assets. This is going to where you keep your earthly treasure, wherever it is and liquidating it! I have the authority to tell you to do it because I did it myself. I’ll reiterate that again. I have the moral and spiritual authority and ecclesiastical authority to tell you to do what I’ve already done!"

"Others may say that “I’m going to tap my 401K and I think I can get “X-amount.”…Now it may not be convenient to your life to give now. Some will say, “If I wait five more years until I retire I could do a little more, I could leave a little bit more for me.” Here’s what you should say: [shouting] The Work needs the funds now, not when I can maximize personal benefit and help the Work! Now there could be penalties. That’s life! It’s better that the Work gets 75% or 50% of something, as opposed to waiting 3, 5, 7, 10 years, or never getting it at all— but getting 100% of it— which could be 100% of nothing! One percent of something beats a 100% of nothing, or even getting it too late to do anything. “Well, I’ll lose to taxes.” Well, if you die, or all kinds of ways you can outlive the time left, waiting to save on taxes. But even if you die a couple of years before dying, there’s Probating the Will, and then we haven’t time to spend it. [Instructs them on giving some of it in 2007 and then more in 2008 for tax purposes.] Think big! Don’t just squander the money! Or pay penalties as you pull a 401K, or whatever, or other assets— don’t squander! Pull big triggers! Think big! A little bit of planning can help."

NOTE: A personal favorite quote I am sure his bankers and those of the members would like to know.

" [Speaking of Home Equity Lines] The worst that can happen, and I’m prepared for this— is that you run it all the way up, and then you have to amortize it in a term loan after 10 or 20 years. It requires some faith, but not a lot. Now you just have a second mortgage instead of an Equity Line. It’s converted into a term loan, paid over a period of 10 or 20 years, starting in 10 or 20 years. It’s what I’ve done. I’m prepared to do it. And then, frankly, we flee before most of it ever comes due. That’s just the way it is."

"Now let’s talk about Wills. Naming the Restored Church of God in your Will sometimes might cause an individual to think they’re doing the right thing. That’s good, that’s wonderful. But they feel comfortable that they’ve done their part. Think about it. How much faith does that require? The Church gets everything when you die and you don’t need it anymore? Where did you sacrifice anything?? Now again, that’s a nice thought. But all you’re saying is since you’re dead you don’t need anymore financial security. No faith. Get it now— When it requires faith. When you’re dead you don’t need it. We have people who have hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars— some even millions— they’re telling us they’re going to give us in Wills. We’re kind of put in a funny position when you think this through. Do we pray that people die so we can get it? We can’t do that! I’m going to get an inheritance from my uncle some day. I don’t pray that he dies— I can’t do that…Don’t put God in the position where you have to die, where He must say “I need that money” and you won’t turn loose of it now. If you named us in your Will, it could take months or years, particularly if there’s litigation before we have it. Think it through… [talks about the natural “cycle of death” bringing funds to the church]

(1:45:40) We live in a strange, different, final generation—final generation. Don’t look for excuses to hold on to your treasure! We don’t have the luxury of waiting years…Today, leaving everything in your Will doesn’t work!"

And then the all time clincher:

" If you send funds, or a great deal is sent collectively around the world, let’s be careful that we don’t grow a voice suddenly in how it should be spent…When you give, it belongs to God. It’s like tithes. You don’t come after you give and tell God and His servants how to spend it. The church (Note: Meaning "I") has to be the judge of how to do that."

As noted, I personally have no idea how "All things common" actually plays out in practice in RCG.  I seriously doubt that Apostle Pack has opened his home, his cupboards or bank account to the now needy brethren.  I really can't picture now needy brethren calling up others and asking if they can come over for dinner or borrow their car.  So others might be more able to comment on the mechanics of the teaching or expectation Dave has of the membership.

But I do know it is a "It won't be long now" practice and belief and was never meant as a way of life for the members as if the church was now what we might think of as Communist in it's outlook.  All things Common is was a short term practice, doomed to fail should the Second Coming go very long.  With Apostle Dave, Jesus, rather Christ's return has just been about a day, a week, a month away tops. 

• Friday September 18 in 2009
• Wednesday September 8 in 2010
• Wednesday September 28 in 2011
• Sunday September 16 in 2012
• Wednesday September 4 in 2013
• Wednesday September 24 in 2014
• Sunday September 13 in 2015
• Monday October 3 in 2016
• Thursday September 21 in 2017
• Monday September 10 in 2018
• Monday September 30 in 2019
• Saturday September 19 in 2020
• Tuesday September 7 in 2021

So how did "All things Common" play out in the early church as promoted in Acts 2?

It did not take long for the more wealthy Greeks who came into the church with the alleged masses to quickly no longer abide sharing their personal wealth with the indigent members to consume.  The longer Jesus Second Coming was put off, the more unwilling the temporary state of giving all grew increasingly unpopular if not impossible and waned.  I suppose if the Church was to ever receive any further support from the more affluent, they learned to accept that and not push the issue.  

All things Common is a direct function of Jesus coming back really really soon. No soon? No need to keep up all things common.  It is just that simple. 

Once the more wealthy Greeks infiltrated Paul's church, conflict arose over unequal distribution of charity and sharing . as "there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because THEIR widows were neglected in the daily ministrations."  I can see this murmuring quietly going on in the fearful of Apostle Pack even today. Of the seven chosen to address this problem, five were men with Greek names. 

So what we can see from this is that the "sharing all things common" was soon abandoned and that charity was limited to the needy widows and even to them insufficiently.  Secondly we learn that the distribution was allocated on racial grounds whether intentionally or just due to favoritism. And thirdly, Greek gentile converts only put up with this for a short time.  We don't hear of this practice again.  It died almost as quickly as it was born. 

As a side note, we see the example of Peter's nasty rebuke of Annanias and Sapphira, two church members, who said they would do one thing and give all they had in the sale of a property to the Church, but, in fact, held back a bit for themselves.  Bad move!

Ananias and Sapphira  Acts 5:

1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.

3Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

5When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

7About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?”

“Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”

9Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”

10At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

Couple of things.  I don't believe this actually happened. But perhaps the pressure to appear to share all things common was more than seeming not to.  So they opted for fudging a bit out of fear of taking care of themselves incase they needed some personal funds.  The truth would be eventually that they would but we don't hear of those stories in the scriptures just as we don't hear about couples who didn't marry because time was short and lived to regret listening to Paul on this or other issues relating to his idea that to be like him was better which it wasn't. 

Great fear probably came on all because they also were fudging the concept of "all things common".  

On the other hand, the tale may have no connection to all things common but rather is a joke the author of Acts, who was pro-Paul and anti-Peter was making.  Here we have the Great Peter, killing off two members for saying one thing, "we gave all" and doing another. "We held back" who HIMSELF said one thing, "I will not deny you Jesus" and did another, "Denied Jesus".  The point of the author being, "Follow Paul. Don't follow Peter".

But back to Apostle Dave.  You can't unring a bell.  If members gave all in the past and "sent it in", they certainly can't do it twice and yet Dave seems to think members have endless resources to send him year after year.  All things common, however it plays out in RCG, is doomed to fail as time goes on. That is not a lifestyle. It was a practice because Paul was sure that his Christ was coming soon, shortly and just around the corner. He was mistaken.  

When members finally figure out just how mistaken Apostle Dave Pack is, it will also fail. Perhaps this is why, to prevent this, Apostle Pack has to dangle the eternal carrot of "my math is right. It can't be any later than....."   

But it can and will be.  Dave has taken enough from his followers. It is past time for them to take care of themselves as this foolish shepherd  blathers about his cherry picking  and never before me understood journey through the scriptures as if he knew...which he has proven time and again he doesn't. 

Any comments on those who might actually know how this works or doesn't in RCG much welcomed.