Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
It has just been confirmed today that the Great Tribulation will NOT begin before 2026! Woo Hoo! Party time!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is such a relief to know that the crap will not be hitting the fan, at least for a few more years. So enjoy life, at least all of you unrepentant exCOG members and Laodiceans who aren't part of the one true church.
God's most holy, righteous, and littlest prophet, who was dreamed into being before the foundations of the world began to be created, is back today letting us know that we have a few more years left, BUT, if you are not part of his group you will never know when the tribulation begins! Oh, noes!!!!!!!!
Those who believe and understand what the Bible actually teaches realize that the Great Tribulation cannot begin before 2026.
Jesus gave a variety of signs/events that had to happen prior to the start of the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24. Not only have many not happened, a preceding event in Daniel 9:27 involving the confirmation of a seven-year deal still has not happened. Since it did not happen as of yet, this means that it is not possible for the Great Tribulation to begin for at least 3 1/2 years (half of a biblically-prophetic week).
He next writes this:
People who claim to be COG, like Ronald Weinland and the late James Malm, have repeatedly been in error as to timing as they have looked to their own understanding instead of what the Bible teaches.
This is pretty rich coming from a man who is just as big a liar as these two are/were!
Apparently, the rest of the COG's and the world will not know when the end times hit...despite the widespread death and destruction the church has been wishing upon the world for decades.
The Great Tribulation is coming, but it will not begin in 2022.
That being said, please understand that the COGs associated with the Sardis and Laodicean churches cannot possibly know when the Great Tribulation will begin unless they change.
The Great Bwana even attacks the CG7 Denver as being ignorant of the end times.
CG7-Denver, for one example, believes that most events in the Book of Revelation have already been fulfilled, so they are not officially looking for it. And the Laodicean churches have added extra, non-biblical events/requirements to precede the Great Tribulation, that are not necessary and hence those who believe them will NOT believe that the Great Tribulation will start until it is too late (see also The Laodicean Church Era).
CG7 Denver has a more successful ministry than Bob can ever dream of and has touched more lives than he ever will.
Then, in typical COG fashion, he goes on to list 51 points as to why everyone is wrong but him. Why is it that COG ministers feel the need to publish endless numbered lists and bullet points every time they speak? Even with his 51 points, he still can not stay on topic and bounces all over the place. On top of that, it is a list of 51 accusations he accuses other COG groups of not doing. Apparently, no one in the entire COG does anything right except for him.
Bwana Bob still is suffering major butt hurt with Living Church of God and United Church of God spewing him out and rejecting his corrections he lobed at both of them:
Yet, it should be noted that leaders in the Living Church of Godand/or the United Church of God have confirmed to me personally that I was biblically correct on basically all the above points, despite the fact that their respective churches hold to several of the errors pointed out above. Those who rely too much on a compromised ministry (Ezekiel 34:7-10) to teach them prophecy that is not truly in accordance with scripture need to realize that according to Jesus’ words in Revelation 2 & 3 and Luke 21, only relatively few Christians will be protected from the hour of trial that will come upon the whole world.
The entire COG movement has rejected Bwana Bob and that just frosts his self-righteous butt to no end.
Ever since “The Greatest Story Never Told! (Part 8)” given on December 12, 2015, David C. Pack has made it a doctrine of The Restored Church of God that “That Prophet” of Deuteronomy 18:18 and Acts 3:23 is Elijah the Prophet, not Jesus Christ as taught by Herbert W. Armstrong of The Worldwide Church of God. That had been a “bedrock” understanding about Jesus Christ for decades.
Being that David C. Pack had declared himself to be Elijah the Prophet eleven months earlier made this new teaching all the more convenient for him to be greater in importance to God than ever before. He was in the Bible more than he previously thought. It was the beginning of the floodgates opening.
Part 8 @ 06:49 Who is That Prophet of Deuteronomy 18? Two great questions immediately come up. Is he Christ or is he a man? And when is his commission carried out? Is he God or man? And when does he do what he’s supposed to do? Big question. Well, let’s go read in Acts 3, what it says. I’m gonna answer it in a way that is impossible to misunderstand.
And yet, Dave misunderstood it for the remaining 1 hour and 50 minutes. Then has continued to misunderstand for the next 6 years and 8 months…plus.
That logic never made sense to me because Jesus Christ was a man. If Dave was denying He was a man, then he is denying that God came in the flesh. Dave never went “all the way” there, but when he would dip his toes into that pool, I got incredibly uncomfortable.
It would have been such a simple question at the time, “Mr. Pack, isn’t Jesus Christ a man?” I guess either no minister at Headquarters asked him or he just “explained it away” without considering fully what he was saying.
This is a clip later in the message where he stated flatly that Elijah was That Prophet. See Audio: Part 8 Elijah That Prophet at end of this article.
This “new doctrine” took a sledgehammer to my spiritual foundation and rocked where I was as a Christian and what The Restored Church of God was doing as the place I had been “giving all” to. His “Ah shucks, it had to be someone” comments did not soften the cut I felt when I first heard this teaching.
This was the sermon that kept me tossing and turning three nights in a row. I had never been so spiritually disturbed. That teaching was wrong and not of God. I knew that.
But on the other hand, I was in God’s one true church. Mr. Pack was the one God chose to lead the Work of God until Jesus Christ returns.
I wondered:
How is it possible that Mr. Pack could be so utterly wrong about something so utterly important? It’s all throughout our literature. It’s in The World to Come broadcasts. Mr. Pack wrote an entire book about it to prove that Gerald Flurry of The Philadelphia Church of God was a false prophet. It is a title only for Jesus Christ. Acts 3 makes it so clear. And yet…
It was a surreal time. I did not hear anyone else make a comment about it. All the ministers were acting like “business as usual.” Co-workers did not seem to be in a haze of shock.
I must be the only one at Headquarters that has a problem with this. Maybe I’m not as close to God as I thought. Maybe I am not of the wise because “the wicked shall not understand.” Maybe I’m a tare. Maybe I don’t have enough faith. Maybe I don’t have God’s Spirit after all. Maybe the devil is tricking me. I better counsel with the ministry.
On that Wednesday morning, I counseled with the Headquarters Pastor at the time who was training another man I liked very much. They spent the next 90 minutes showing me from the Bible how Mr. Pack was correct in his teachings and I was just not looking at it the right way, but that is okay because it is a minister’s job to help guide the brethren.
I was a sheep and the two shepherds were going to help keep me from wandering off.
I came with my Bible, but also with Mr. Pack’s own literature. I only had the heart to read a few “mild” quotes from it. “That book is old understanding,” the minister said. I have to stay current with what God is revealing to His apostle now. It is part of a Christian’s journey. This is why Christianity is hard.
By the end of the session, they got me to see it their way. I hugged both of them, feeling relieved. But the moment I started walking down the hallway, the “wait a minute” questions started to pop in my head. “What about…” and “What about…” all the way to my truck in the parking lot. By the time I opened the door, I was already back to, “No. That’s not right. No way. Jesus Christ is That Prophet.” I could not shake it.
At this point, I was determined to do a deep study in my Bible when I got home. This was against the advice of the minister. He told me to “trust God’s government” and “do not study this any more.”
But, I knew I had to “Prove all things, hold fast that which is good.” That was a foundational verse for my entire Christian journey. I spent weeks going through my Bible and the RCG literature (before it was removed from every nook and cranny at Headquarters). I was driven to prove what was true. My intent was not to prove Mr. Pack wrong. But that did become the ultimate conclusion.
After much study, I proved it all the more powerfully that Jesus Christ is That Prophet. I still have those notes. At this point, I just had to “endure” the stab in my gut whenever Mr. Pack would bring it up. I began to listen to him more carefully than in the past and really hear what he is saying and how he is saying it.
If he is so wildly wrong about this teaching, what else is he wrong about?
The seed was planted. I became a David C. Pack skeptic. I never believed he was an apostle anyhow, I just “accepted” everyone said it. But this new way of thinking grew. I was deeply interested in critical thinking, prosecuting the truth, proving all things, and letting the Bible prove the Bible.
Eventually, I resigned from The Restored Church of God in March of 2021. And now I have a website. That has been an odd journey.
Due to all the whoppers Dave laid out in Part 381 this past Sabbath, something huge escaped my attention, which is probably fine since that article was more than long enough already.
There is a new big question on the table: Who is That Prophet now?
Follow the logic:
Jesus Christ was That Prophet Dave Pack becomes Elijah the Prophet That Prophet is actually Elijah the Prophet Dave Pack is then Elijah That Prophet Dave Pack now is NOT Elijah the Prophet Dave Pack cannot be That Prophet Ancient Elijah is still dead and cannot be That Prophet Who is That Prophet now? Dave throws a dart on his open Bible
Based on what was just declared on July 9, David C. Pack HAS to also do a major reversal on who That Prophet is. If Dave is not Elijah the Prophet, then he cannot be That Prophet. Since the ancient Elijah the Prophet is now one of the Two Witnesses who will need to be resurrected before he can start his commission, he cannot be That Prophet either. Can he?
Dave may squint and turn his head sideways at Deuteronomy 18 to make that also be about the Two Witnesses of Revelation, but since the word there is prophet—singular, he will really need to pull off some world-class Biblical Twister to sell that, even to Brad.
Here’s an idea. I have already declared I am a non-prophet/non-psychic, but allow me for a moment to channel Dave’s warped thinking into my brain. THUNK. Do not try this is at home. It is for demonstration purposes only.
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19
If I were Desperate Dave running on the hamster wheel in the third floor Executive Imaginarium with The Coffee Kid and Pepper Boy manning the projector, here is how I would do it:
First, look up each and every word in Strong’s Concordance. Then, remove all the words that those awful, incompetent translators added in to “cloud” what God was really saying. Read all the various other translations. Then examine what is being said and who it is being said to.
Eureka! I have the answer.
God was talking to Moses. God is telling him He is going to resurrect another prophet like him. That other prophet is Elijah. God was telling Moses that he was going to get a partner named Elijah. Since Elijah and Moses will be the Two Witnesses, they are like each other. Plus, Elijah was a great speaker and Moses was not, so logically, Elijah would be “the chief” of the two. Elijah is a type of Aaron going before Pharaoh, so of course what HE says will carry consequences to those who do not heed.
It makes perfect sense that God hid this in His word until the very end, right there in the Old Testament and we never saw it because it wasn’t time yet. No minister I ever talked to or even heard about ever read that verse and said That Prophet of Acts 3 was going to be working with Moses and that the Two Witnesses are right there in Deuteronomy 18. It’s impossible to misunderstand. Once you see it for what it is. This is the most electrifying knowledge I have ever been privileged to teach in my fifty-some-odd years of preaching. And you are the very first who get to hear it. Because you held on, brethren.
Yikes. I just wrote that. That is not a Dave quote, just in case you were wondering.
The long-standing Acts 3 distortion would still be in play regarding Elijah. Forget the fact Peter keeps bringing up Jesus Christ from beginning to the end of that chapter. Peter was just a fisherman, so what did he know? Dave has no problem repeating, “Peter got it wrong” anyhow.
Seriously, if Dave uses this angle to teach it to the church, that would be incredible. And he would owe me sixty bucks.
Could you imagine? God’s Apostle, who is also here “in the spirit and power of Elijah” draws the same conclusion as an antichrist? Except, I got here first. For the record, I found this answer inside 30 second just before noon on Monday, July 11, 2022.
If God reveals to Dave the same information I just found sitting with my laptop on my couch, what would that say about me from a biblical perspective? That is not a question for you or for me. That would be a question for Dave. We’ll jump off that bridge when we get to it.
Or…and I hope this is truly the case, Dave goes the other way and he announces that Jesus Christ really really really is That Prophet of Deuteronomy 18 and Acts 3 after all. They can take all that literature out of the trash bin and put it back onto the shelf.
I would feel very comfortable with that because it would be true.
But if he does this, it will yet be another reversal of a foundational teaching of The Restored Church of God that has been held on to for almost seven years. Talk about shaking the tree again with that one.
He surely won’t spend 1 hour and 57 minutes explaining how he is NOT That Prophet and that Jesus Christ is. I’m curious to see how much energy he actually devotes to dismantling his own erroneous teaching.
If Dave went this route and returned to “Jesus Christ is That Prophet” just as I asserted back in 2015, then I could imagine the counseling that Bradford G. Schleifer would give as I sat in his office.
“Well Marc, you didn’t exercise enough patience. You answered the matter before you heard it. See, God sorted it out just like Mr. Armstrong always used to say. You didn’t trust God’s government, His Church, His ministers, or me. You didn’t believe Mr. Pack was God’s apostle and this is the result. If only you had held on just a little longer…”
In another hairpin reversal of reversals, David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God declares he is NOT “Elijah the Prophet” in The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 381) given in Wadsworth Ohio on July 9, 2022.
Not to spoil the suspense, but here are the notable whoppers from this message:
·When God told Elijah in 1 Kings 19:18/Romans 11:2-5, “Yet have I left seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal” it was not a reference to people in the time of ancient Elijah, but is a future fulfillment by the members of RCG.
·The Two Witnesses are resurrected Moses and Elijah.
·Dave is not “Elijah the Prophet” but more a John the Baptist “Like-Elijah” figure.
·The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 16 is actually about the Day of the Lord to be fulfilled in the future.
·Math math math math math points to Tammuz 15 (Wednesday night to Thursday night) for the start of the 1335.
Man o man, where to start…
The beginning of the message was almost equally as disturbing as the content which followed.
@ 00:13 Well, I assured you there we we would not have another message. So much for so much for the Methodist doctrine of assurance. [Audience laughs]…The picture is exactly the same. Couple dramatic changes to our understanding, but the picture stays the same.
Why is that funny?
Mr. Pack told us there was nothing more to learn, but…ha ha ha.
Mr. Pack said Jesus Christ HAD to come last week, but…ha ha ha.
Mr. Pack said we had a “perfect picture” last time, but…ha ha ha.
Mr. Pack says we have reached the end, but…ha ha ha.
Mr. Pack says one thing and does another…ha ha ha.
The fact some in the audience laughed was actually bothersome to me. The man is stringing those people along and they seem to be just so okay with it. That feels a bit Twilight Zone-ish.
Listen to it yourself: see the sound file at the end of this post Open and Laughing at end of this post
Dave then reminded people that Tammuz 15 was still the day it all begins. Make sure to underline that Post-it Note still on your fridge.
Going to Romans 11 and 1 Kings 19, Dave explains how the “seven thousand knees which did not bow to Baal” are actually not in Elijah’s time, but in the future and those are the people in RCG.
Imagine this: Elijah is distraught and wants to die because he is all alone. God gets his attention with a “still, small voice” and tells him, “I have reserved 7000 knees that have not bowed to Baal, buuuuuut that is all about people who will live almost 3000 years from now. So yeah, I know I was supposed to comfort you and let you know you are not alone, but actually Elijah…you are alone.” In effect, God pulls a fast-one on one of His servants.
Then Dave went on to the topic of the Two Witnesses.
Over the past several years, he would “wonder out loud” during a sermon about who these men could be. For a while, he suggested it was Jeff and Kevin. But when they left RCG, then he mused at some point about it being The Coffee Kid and Pepper Boy. More jokingly, but still.
He has finally settled on a resurrected Moses and Elijah. But I would pencil and not ink that. They would have to die again in the streets of Jerusalem to be resurrected again a few days later.
Imagine this: You live in Old Testament times as God’s servant, full of faith knowing that when you are resurrected, you will inherit the Kingdom of God and receive your eternal reward.
Buuuuuut…
Instead, God says, “Hello, My most faithful servants. You died and are now alive again. I need to ask the both of you to work again this weekend which means both of you have to die again. Yeah. If you could just do that, that would be greaaaaaaaaaaat.”
How could you blame the ancient Elijah if he thought that this was strike-two? “First, I am actually alone. Second, I have to die again. Dare I ask what is going to be third?”
So, Dave reduces God to the same bait-and-switch tactics that he employs with new RCG members. Is that reasonable to you?
And now folks, for the main event:
@ 35:51 Well, there would be another person like John [the Baptist] who would come in that spirit and power. John didn’t do a single miracle. There would be another one similar to him who would be Elijah-like in a restorative way. But I am not Elijah the Prophet.I am only in the sense that the ancient John the Baptist came a little ahead of Christ. Would there be a modern man who’d come a little ahead of Christ, carry that name but he has his own name? He’s sorta like Moses, but carries the name of Elijah which is kind of an interesting thing in itself…
Dave must have gotten nostalgic for his childhood. He picked a daisy out of the garden and started plucking petals, “I’m Elijah. No I’m not. I’m Elijah. No I’m not. I’m Elijah. No I’m not.” Eventually he is going to run out of petals and get stuck with one choice at the buzzer.
But hold the phone. Since God is the one who calls men into an office, does Dave really have the authority to unProphet-ize himself? I thought it was God who revealed to Dave that he was Elijah That Prophet in the first place. Does this mean that God pulled the rug out from underneath Dave for the fun of it?
Is God laughing at Dave like Nelson from the Simpsons? “Ha ha. I said you were ‘Elijah in spirit and power’ not ‘Elijah the Prophet.’ Clean the wax out of your ears next time.”
Dave then went through the Bible for some time drawing comparisons to himself and John the Baptist.
@ 1:12:01 And now you know he [John the Baptist] wasn’t Elijah the Prophet. Andmaybe that’s why he did not one miracle. Now, I did a lot of things in the past, more miraculous things in the past. But of recent years because of my role, I don’t. I’ve anointed people that had been healed dramatically. And I’ve had I been the recipient of miracles. So, I think it’s an interesting parallel in that way.
The point being, John the Baptist did not do miracles and Dave does not do them any more. That will be important near the end.
@ 1:14:13 So, the ancient John [the Baptist] was a prophet who proceeded Christ but he knew that he was not actually Elijah. So, I am not Elijah the Prophet. Not now, not ever. Sort of a a type coming “in the spirit and power of Elijah.”Elijah, apparently was a was a pretty good speaker. John the Baptist was a bright and shining light. I hope to some degree in a small way, I’ve done that. 381 sermons, lo these many years. 44,000 minutes just in the series of preaching. So, you know, I don’t know when I became like Elijah the Prophet, but now I know I am not that man and we no longer have to spend five minutes talking about it.I’m the Seventh Messenger. Yes, I am the messenger who is sent “to prepare the way” right in the face of the Father and Son coming together in Malachi 3:1 before “the great and dreadful day of the Lord.”
Technically, Dave is still like-Elijah, just not Elijah the Prophet. Fine, Dave…we’ll play this your way. You are not a false prophet. You are a LIKE-False Prophet. You came “in the spirit and power of a false prophet.” Happy now?
@ 37:21 So, you’ve got something else to look forward to. I believe absolutely thisWednesday night you will meet Moses and Elijah.And then you’ll meet the rest of the prophets in a couple weeks after that. And believe me, I’m not I’m not done proving it.
He has not “proven” anything. It is just the same tired supposition, imagination, delusion, and desperation plucked from the pages of the Bible and out of the air after Dave brushes away the stars and birds floating about his head.
If you had put your money down on the table every time Dave said, “I believe XYZ is going to happen on XYZ,” you would be homeless by now. No car. No food. No clothes.
Near the end, Dave went exhaustively into how this coming Wednesday night (Tammuz 15) starting at sundown on July 13 to sundown July 14 is absolutely the start of the 1335 when the Kingdom of God arrives.
@ 1:16:17 So, let’s reduce everything to math and you’ll walk outta here and you will know based on numbers alone exactly when this is gonna happen.
Yikes. When Dave breaks out the calculator and a calendar, it never ends well for him.
If you are a masochist, you can hear it for yourself in all it’s easy-peezy glory: see audio clip “Part 381 Kingdom Math” at end of this post
Cutting to the chase: Tammuz 15 is the real deal. The millennium (1000 years) starts on Trumpets. You can count a bunch of things with a bunch of dates and you land on this coming Wednesday night at sundown until around dawn on Thursday morning or maybe at any point throughout the day until sundown Thursday night to start the whole shebang. Got it?
For those still interested, we are going to circle back around to the John the Baptist concept and reveal how Dave is not nearly as good at Daving as Brad is at Daving. I think Bradford G. Schleifer would have had a better run at blurring these concepts so the holes in Dave’s theory were not so gaping.
Dave is telling the audience everything they need to hear to prove if he truly is like-Elijah “in spirit and power” or not? The man tells you in his own words. He even uses the Bible to prove which is the answer. It is not only incredible, but plain.
Dave claims he is not a prophet. John the Baptist was a prophet. Dave says so at 1:14:13 quoted above. Jesus Christ agrees with this in Matthew and Luke.
John the Baptist heard the voice of God audibly and was told exactly what to do and when. Dave has admitted throughout the series he has never heard God speak to him.
According to Luke 1:17, John the Baptist came “in spirit and power of Elijah.” That word for power is dunamis. (Strong’s G1411 – From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself).
This has been hammered over and over in The Restored Church of God. We know what dunamis is. Miraculous power. Dave admitted that he no longer does anything “miraculous” at 1:12:01 quoted above. So, what “power” is Dave then referring to? Talking a lot? Insurance salesmen do that. Yelling a lot? Army sergeants do that.
I would love for some minister on the third floor on Monday who runs into Dave in the hallway to ask him flat out, “What power were you referring to?” It will be the last question they ever ask him, but the look on his face would be priceless.
Ask yourself: If Dave once had miraculous power, why would God take it away?
Is there an example somewhere in the Bible that could be a clue as to what happened? Yes. But it does not bode well for Dave. Do an e-Sword search in the Old Testament for a man named Saul.
Why would God remove His gift from His only living apostle on the face of the earth? Ponder that.
So, if Dave does not have dunamis, then what “spirit” do you suppose is moving him deeper into this Tammuz malarkey? Or to previously declare he WAS Elijah the Prophet? Is it the same spirit that caused John the Baptist to witness a dove descend from heaven and rest upon our Savior, Jesus Christ?
How many inside The Restored Church of God do you think caught all this?
How David C. Pack is NOT like John the Baptist:
1) John the Baptist was a prophet, Dave is not.
2) John the Baptist heard God speak to him, Dave has not.
3) John the Baptist was “in the dunamis of Elijah,” Dave is not.
4) John the Baptist kept his dunamis until death, Dave has not.
5) John the Baptist saw spirit, Dave has not.
Please remember that I did not say these things. David C. Pack said these things. The Bible says these things. I am merely reminding you of it.
Tammuz is a one way street. Dave has painted himself into a smaller and tighter corner with each message.
I know the “ministers” in RCG will call me (if they have not already) an antichrist. With this article, they will say I am also committing the unpardonable sin for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I was a tare amongst the wheat. I am beating my fellow servants. I am deceived. My work is of the devil. Woe unto me.
I humbly request they hold back on any judgment regarding this until Friday morning. Let God prove who is a liar and who is true. Amen to the Kingdom of God coming this week. Amen to the plan of God moving forward now. Amen to Jesus Christ returning to His people.
If I am wrong, I will be cast into a lake of fire. I accept that.
