Demons are calling Dave Pack and setting fires around the world

Dave Pack says:

“So and so called and said he left a message a couple of days ago wanting to speak with a minister, has not heard anything yet. [Well, here’s why.] He thinks he is the Antichrist and it is urgent he speaks with someone.”

Now…to get help so he can shift the job to someone else? Or to send us a message? He did note in the 15 minutes that he had schizophrenia in the past; so that’s a tell-tale sign. But the person that was listening, politely interrupted him, said it sounded as if he needed to speak to a minister, and…we’ll have to talk to that woman, one of the ladies who answer the phone. I feel bad for the minister that took that call, but anyway, he said that he would speak to any minister.

So I mention that because one of the things you are seeing in the world…We’re going to come back to this in a different way in just a very few minutes…One of the things that you’re seeing in the world is more demon activity. You should get out of your head the idea that a significant increase, or an increase or even a significant increase of demon activity and the power of the devil will only come when he descends into Jerusalem. It’s been my experience and I knew this would happen and said so a number of months ago, before the devil shows ALL power and signs and lying wonders, you’re going to see him evident across the world.

After all, he is the spirit that works in the children of disobedience and he’s going to begin to do more and more before the big day in his mind, if you will. So we’re going to see more and more of those kinds of things. It’s no doubt why there is more wars, rumors of wars and commotions; why this terrible shooting that occurred in Washington on Wednesday that will change nothing. It didn’t even change the tone for the whole day; never mind that all of the tone of unity and, you know, kumbaya, that everybody was claiming to pursue, was gone by the next day entirely. You see?

So, the prince of the power of the air works on certain people and not just that guy. And when you see terrible fires…where they now estimate over 100 are going to die, when the first reports were only two, in that 27-story Grenfell Tower in London…and so many, many other things, you’re seeing the devil sort of flex his muscles.

Well, one of the ways he would do it with us is emails or phone calls like that one……

So periodically, these moments are helpful, kind of teaching moments I can talk to you about the kinds of things we are dealing with. Here’s kind of an inspiring one though, from a member who wrote something that may benefit all of us, kind of an uplifting, interesting view.

“While listening to your sermon last Sabbath, June 10^th, Part 78, you’re comments on fire provoked thought. I live in southern Arizona. [So I guess the brethren out there will know who I’m talking about.]

“Typically when people think of Arizona, they think desert, but not the area south of Tucson—[I know because my brother-in-law pastored it for two years.]—grasslands, cattle ranches, rocky terrain. We’ve had very little rain this year. It’s been very, very dry. We’ve had a VERY [all caps] high number of grassland fires. More than I can remember in any previous year. Some were (unintentionally) [It says in parentheses.] manmade, and some were the result of lightning.

“Many thousands of acres have been burned. Grazing for cattle, homes, barns [you know] destroyed. I don’t believe any lives have been lost. [That’s good.] As I drive past the recently blackened and ashy fields, I’m reminded how hot, intense and utterly destructive carbon combustion can be, and then just a few miles further down the road where there was a fire a few weeks ago, the grasses are pushing green shoots up through the scorched earth. Life is returning, and when we do get life-giving rain, the hills here will be as green here as they are in Ohio. Well, maybe not quite THAT green [All caps.] Fire purges the dead and the dross, life returns, water encourages growth. I so much more now appreciate biblical fire.”

LCG: Your Leaders Know What Is Best For You

The Church of God has always held a firm reign on members and what they should believe. Members were taught never to question, have doubt and express that doubt publicly, and to NEVER question the words of a minister or church leader.  To do so was tantamount to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Ordinary lay members were too uneducated in the Bible, church history, eschatology, hermeneutics, and other areas theological studies.  Only men trained at the feet of Herbert Armstrong were capable of passing on "truths" ministers under them. Ministers were never encouraged to attend real theological institutions and learn proper techniques.  The result of this is over 80 decades of men who have had the exact same information passed on to them as holy writ from the mouth or pen of Herbert Armstrong.  This kind of thinking has breed men like Rod McNair, Almost ordained Bob Thiel, James Malm, and others who have set themselves up as the end all in spiritual wisdom.  To doubt any of them is borderline blasphemy.

Thus, church members should always look upwards with reverence at the leadership of the church for spiritual truths.  At no point in time should ANY member EVER take it upon themselves to "correct" or "save" the church!  According to LCG, that is supposed to be Christ's job.  He does the correcting, through the leaders.

The question should be asked, What IF the leadership is so corrupt and graceless that Christ just might need to use a lay member to wake up the lazy, bloated, and self-important ministry? What happens then?  We all know that answer.  You will be kicked out and publicly humiliated from the pulpit, by the very same graceless, bloated, self-important ministers that need the correction.

Just the title alone of the Weekly Update is meant to instill fear into the LCG membership.  If you dare to question, you are misguided and the church does not like that. Questions and criticism are "misguided" even though Christ might be waking you up.

Beware of Misguided Ideas

The Apostle Paul warned, “in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons” (1 Timothy 4:1-4) and that many will not listen to sound doctrine but will prefer to follow their own ideas (2 Timothy 3:1-6; 4:1-4). Paul also warned that critics from within and from outside the Church will try to divide congregations to gain a following (Acts 20:29-31). He pointed out that Satan will try various ways to mislead well-meaning people (2 Corinthians 2:11) who latch onto and begin to spread an idea—that has already been examined and rejected by the Church—in an attempt to influence others (2 Corinthians 11:4-15). While numerous ideas created problems among brethren in the early Church, Paul’s advice was to “Guard what was committed to your trust” (1 Timothy 6:20), “hold fast” to what you have been “taught” (Titus 1:9-11) and “avoid foolish disputes” (Titus 3:9; 1 Timothy 6:3-5). When questions arise over doctrine, the biblical example is to take the issue to the leaders of the Church for a decision (Acts 15:1-31). Nowhere do the Scriptures encourage individuals to take it on themselves to correct or “save” the Church. That is something that Jesus Christ will take care of in His time as He “builds” His Church (Matthew 16:18).

Have a profitable Sabbath,

Douglas S. Winnail

"That "Only True Church" thing has been the bane of the Churches of God"

Reposting Dennis comment from the LCG-"We Are Not Wishy Washy" post.

That "Only True Church" thing has been the bane of the Churches of God as has "Government from the top down." The New Testament is a Testament to two true churches of God. The Jewish Christian one under Peter, James and John and the Gentile Pauline Church. The Jewish Christian interpretation is what we find in the COG except they try to make Paul one of them too which he isn't and fought hard against. The Gentile Pauline version is just about everything else in all their forms. Galatians 1-2 is a Pauline rant against the Jerusalem Apostles and an authentic letter of Paul. The Book of James is a Jewish Christian rant against Paul's concept of grace with no works found in Paul's also authentic Book of Romans.

The letters to the Seven Churches in Revelation were NEVER conceived as being types of authentic Churches of God 2000 years into the future. "Behold I come quickly" and "To show things which must shortly come to pass" for them back then indicate the failure of Revelation as a prophecy. It's a Jewish Book written to encourage Jewish Christians caught in the fall of Jerusalem . It failed to deliver and the Romans won. No Jesus returned to save them and it was not meant to extend one hour past the fall of the city and destruction of the Temple. Fundamentalist churches have spent the last 200 years making Revelation mean what it never meant and does not mean. 

Without the Book of Revelation the Churches of God would have no message and certainly no motivator like it to join them. Fear sells and it's all made up. Nothing in the Book of Revelation will come to pass as speculated. It was a second Daniel which was written to encourage the Jews to hang in there in the 160's BCE and they lost in the same way.to the Romans. 

I know the pull and power of the Book of Revelation as well as anyone . It barely made the cut into the New Testament Canon. But clearly its time passed and those who read it so dearly in the details will dismiss the opening and closing verses which clearly indicate something had gone terribly wrong with it being inspired or how it all will be. LIke the Apostle Paul, who after years of "soon" had to face the final curtain and wish everyone good luck on their own journey, the Book of Revelation was the swan song of the dying Jewish Church.

On top of that, no human beings know the future . It is not all planned out and all one has to do is read Art Mokarrow's. "God's Puzzle Solved" for the solution to this puzzle. There is no puzzle that needs solving . That makes Bible God a Trickster who is more interested in playing games than informing humans of whatever one thinks their incredible human potential is. 

It doesn't matter where you go to church or even if you do. There is a seat for every butt and a style for every personality. That's why we have so many denominations and while I realize no one ever says they know they attend the false church, the fight over who is the true church is equally as ludicrous and ill informed.

The Journal News of the Churches of God Issue 198 Now Online

The latest issue of The Journal is online.

This issue covers past history of the church and college with the sale of Big Sandy to Alert Academy.  Alert Academy is the brainchild of Bill Gothard who has been accused of sexual improprieties and other things.  Many class ALERT as a cult.  See:  Owners of Big Sandy Campus (ALERT Academy) Being Sued

There is an article about Vik Kubik and UCG members helping clean up after Hurricane Harvey.

There is a couple of small announcement about Joe Tkach retiring and his replacement, Greg Williams.

The article by Brian Knowles has some interesting tidbits about Herbert Armstrong, such as:

Herbert W. Armstrong was sitting at his desk reviewing Plain Truth copy with me. It was either 1978 or 1979. I was serving as managing editor of the Worldwide Church’s flag- ship publication. 

Mr. Armstrong took a personal interest in every word that appeared in it. He then elaborated on his discovery that he could detect similarities between himself and the pontiff: “Brian, I have reserved the setting of all doctrine to myself.”

By the mid-’70s Mr. Armstrong had a limited capacity to study Scriptures and even to read. 

He was running mostly on memory and momentum. 

His short-term recollection often failed him. On one occasion he denied from the pulpit that Wayne Cole, Robert Kuhn and I had been to see him in Tucson about the “STP,” the Systematic Theology Project. We had all gone together in Mr. Armstrong’s own plane, but guess who people believed.

On another occasion he denied having attended the Feast in Florida. That people were able to produce videotapes of his preaching there didn’t seem to phase him. 

Herbert Armstrong's denial from the pulpit that he knew nothing about the STP was a blatant lie.  Many of those papers went straight to his desk and he read them.   At this same time he was so mad at GTA that he would do anything to discredit him and this was his chance

Dave Havir has an article on prophecy and it will cause major butthurt for Almost-ordained Bob Thiel and Pharisee Malm:

People who are familiar with my writing and speaking are probably familiar with my approach to prophecy. 

I am interested in hearing the prophecy interpretations of people. 

I have no interest in hearing the prophecy interpretations of people who claim to speak for God with their dogmatic proclamations. 

At times I am willing to share my interpretations of prophecy, but I have learned to avoid the mistake of being a dogmatic proclaimer. Every dogmatic proclaimer I have heard (including those among the Church of God) has proven to earn the classification of a false prophet 

Alton Billingsley is back with another of his bat-shit crazy articles.   Apparently, the eclipse of 1918 was a sign of when Jesus started using  Herbert Armstrong. Also, the name Eugene, OR was prophetically significant for Herbert's rise to power.

The 1918 eclipse began in Bend, Oregon, very close to Eugene, Oregon, where Jesus Christ began using Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong in 1933 (Eugene = Good Birth). History reveals that year was the turning point in World War I, for Germany began losing the war against France, Britain and America. 

According to Billingsley, Hillary Clinton is still going to be elected and the eclipse of 2017 was a sign of the end times.

President Hillary Clinton (?)—She will be the 45th president (cf. Isaiah 3:12; Nahum 3:13). This adds up to the number NINE and has the meaning of divine judgment; the final president before being conquered by the Holy Roman Empire.
Foreboding of Doom
—As already noted, the recent total solar eclipse has the dreaded and terrible meaning of doom for Manasseh (Ezekiel 5:12; 7:5-9). It is truly a time of fasting and prayer. 

You can read Issue 198 here:  The Journal