The Church of God has always held a firm reign on members and what they should believe. Members were taught never to question, have doubt and express that doubt publicly, and to NEVER question the words of a minister or church leader. To do so was tantamount to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
Ordinary lay members were too uneducated in the Bible, church history, eschatology, hermeneutics, and other areas theological studies. Only men trained at the feet of Herbert Armstrong were capable of passing on "truths" ministers under them. Ministers were never encouraged to attend real theological institutions and learn proper techniques. The result of this is over 80 decades of men who have had the exact same information passed on to them as holy writ from the mouth or pen of Herbert Armstrong. This kind of thinking has breed men like Rod McNair, Almost ordained Bob Thiel, James Malm, and others who have set themselves up as the end all in spiritual wisdom. To doubt any of them is borderline blasphemy.
Thus, church members should always look upwards with reverence at the leadership of the church for spiritual truths. At no point in time should ANY member EVER take it upon themselves to "correct" or "save" the church! According to LCG, that is supposed to be Christ's job. He does the correcting, through the leaders.
Just the title alone of the Weekly Update is meant to instill fear into the LCG membership. If you dare to question, you are misguided and the church does not like that. Questions and criticism are "misguided" even though Christ might be waking you up.
Beware of Misguided Ideas
The Apostle Paul warned, “in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons” (1 Timothy 4:1-4) and that many will not listen to sound doctrine but will prefer to follow their own ideas (2 Timothy 3:1-6; 4:1-4). Paul also warned that critics from within and from outside the Church will try to divide congregations to gain a following (Acts 20:29-31). He pointed out that Satan will try various ways to mislead well-meaning people (2 Corinthians 2:11) who latch onto and begin to spread an idea—that has already been examined and rejected by the Church—in an attempt to influence others (2 Corinthians 11:4-15). While numerous ideas created problems among brethren in the early Church, Paul’s advice was to “Guard what was committed to your trust” (1 Timothy 6:20), “hold fast” to what you have been “taught” (Titus 1:9-11) and “avoid foolish disputes” (Titus 3:9; 1 Timothy 6:3-5). When questions arise over doctrine, the biblical example is to take the issue to the leaders of the Church for a decision (Acts 15:1-31). Nowhere do the Scriptures encourage individuals to take it on themselves to correct or “save” the Church. That is something that Jesus Christ will take care of in His time as He “builds” His Church (Matthew 16:18).Have a profitable Sabbath,Douglas S. Winnail
28 comments:
As the Mormons were taught, "Once the decision has been made, the thinking has been done." In other words, stop thinking, shut up and do what you are told.
If this is a recent posting for Winnail, is it an indicator that there are divisions deepening within the LCG over doctrinal issues?
Winnail's posting was September 8, 2017. Many of the people from LCG that contact me privately say there are deep divisions in Charlotte.
This is what occurs when there is a "corporation" or A "church" that must be protected. There seems to be little allowance for those who might be "weak in the faith", but rather a demand to conform and to conform quickly to what those leaders decide should be followed or practiced, and once again borders on, or jumps right into, salvation by works of some sort. (Sort that is determined by the leaders who must keep that corporation functioning). Pretty astounding that all these evangelists, etc., who are soooo well schooled in scripture and the Way, (supposedly), spend so much time figuring out budgets, insurance, building programs and so little time actually preaching that gospel to the world! All the time there is that example of the early church where the Apostles chose "deacons" to handle the physical things of the church in order to free them up to take that gospel message to those who had not heard. But apparently the "unwashed" who have not been ordained as preachers cannot be trusted to handle the holy thing!! (Then those ordained can't trust each other, but they all seek to protect that holy thing).
How does Winnail reconcile his citing of "hold fast to what you have been taught" with his inventing a divisive new understanding of the Falling Away?
The knives are out in Charlotte. The HQ ministers are, by and large, spoiled big babies who cannot get along with each other more than superficially, and certainly cannot treat each other with the same respect they demand from members. What they do understand is the law of the jungle. When one of them is demoted or sent away, the others win by default.
Watch to see who Weston ordains as evangelists. There is lots of envy and backbiting among the Pastor-rank ministers at HQ, more than one of whom is firmly convinced that he "should be" an evangelist. Weston's eventual choice (or choices) may say much about whether he is as political and carnal as Rod Meredith, or whether he is beholden to one faction or another, or whether he is trying to do what is right spiritually.
Doesn't matter. It's all man-made, anyway. One of those "emperor has no clothes" deals.
BB
Nowhere do the Scriptures encourage individuals to take it on themselves to correct or “save” the Church. That is something that Jesus Christ will take care of in His time as He “builds” His Church.
Well, didn't he try to save people from the Tkaches? Isn't that why people like him started their own church?
The IQ in these churches must be dropping; most people with brains have gotten out by now.
Divisions over what?
Doug Winnail wrote: "...The Apostle Paul warned, “in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons” (1 Timothy 4:1-4Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)) and that many will not listen to sound doctrine but will prefer to follow their own ideas..."
Doug thinks this is the latter times? And, yes, Doug believes and teaches a Mickey Mouse Millennium telling us Jesus Christ will soon return to reign on earth for 1,000 years! Well, this is a Mickey Mouse Latter Times Doug believes in also. Read the scriptures and see what happens worldwide after that MMMillennium he believes in! At least, after 1,000 years of something, we would be better off referring to that time as "latter times."
And not listen to sound doctrine? A Mickey Mouse Millennium is not sound doctrine!
Yes, Doug, Rod Meredith, modern day hirelings left their ministerial credentials behind in Pasadena a long time ago and FLED! What else could they do? They never really cared for those they left behind:
John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
Yes, Doug, the hirelings, did prefer to follow their own ideas! It was the hirelings, with help from another spirit, that enabled the sheep to be scattered. The leaders followed their own scatter-brain ideas to divide and conquer sheep. The hirelings formed all of their so-called churches of god (another spirit) and are today so divided...anything but united! what should the sheep do?
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Yes, mark and avoid them! Guess what the people are doing? And some think the xcogs will regather? Well, regather into what? Their Associations, organizations, groups look like a huge circus and in a confused state of thinking with all of their differing and bickering doctrines! Who is the author of confusion?
While they are driven by another spirit, they continue to preach their idea of Junk Food: another gospel. Well, they do demonstrate they know another Jesus...a Mickey Mouse one!
Doug says: "...When questions arise over doctrine, the biblical example is to take the issue to the leaders of the Church for a decision..."
Duh!!!!!! Those leaders continue to "mark" each other! Does Doug really think the sheep are that dumb?
Doug look around! If God's Church exists, it just may be someplace other than that United Association you once were a part of, and then fled to some "living" group. You and the other hirelings want the sheep to look to you, but you who strive to give us the impression that you are so smart, well, consider who God was going to be working with. Consider who was going to be the workmanship of God's hands!
1 Cor 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
Doug, why would God do such a thing as that? Is was for those like yourself and the other hirelings who think you have something to glory about, but God says:
:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Doug, you are basically telling us: "Be like ME! Think like ME!"
You and the man-made organization you are part of have nothing to glory over or about, but...
Time will tell...
John
'Christ will take care of it' and 'leave it in Gods hands' (and similar) is the stock answer that many abusive cults tell their members when they report minister/elder abuse. This includes ministers sexually abusing children, as many a Jehovah Witness dissident site points out.
Thankfully many took it to court, resulting in multi million dollar settlements.
Douglas says that 'Jesus Christ will take care of it in his own time.' That is not what is described in the first chapter of Revelation. The seven churches had their strengths and problems. God is not a human puppet master, but rather gives humans self responsibility. He a!lowed these churches to sin.
So no, Christ will not 'take care of it' in the sense Douglas implies. He knows full well that the ministers will keep (unimpeded by Christ) dominating members with their verbals threats, verbals bashings and verbally tearing members down.
Douglas's real message is 'be passive and resign yourself to the perks that the ministers give themselves. And be sure not to read Banned by HWA.'
I remember a minister of a little group I used to attend years ago say this: The only way a minister is a true minister, is if he has had his hands laid on him by HWA, or hands laid on by one who had by HWA, and so the lineage goes. I thought hmmm, this kind of sounds like the Catholic church. So here this little group is now teaching Catholic doctrine while they berate the Catholic church. Interesting the things these guys will justify in the name of so called claimed authority.
We laugh at some of the ways in which people try to establish their COG credentials today, Bob Thiel requesting annointing for fatigue and to his shock finding out that he has been annointed as a prophet, Dave Pack being mentored by HWA over a period of weeks or months as he picked up his wife who worked in that office, etc. HWA did the same thing. Baptized by a Baptist pastor who was later disgraced, HWA both was and was not ordained by or worked for COG-7 depending on how authority played into whatever was the current discussion. These credentials are all manufactured, and cannot in any way be verified.
The minute someone claims that one of their spiritual ancestors were ordained by the Waldenses, it all breaks down, because the way HWA's scholars used similar sounding words across different languages obscures the fact that the Waldenses wore sabbots as opposed to actually being sabbatarians. When one digs deeper, it's all bogus and disgraceful. Yet these idiots all claim absolute authority for themselves. A paraphrase of Dr. Winnail's message is: "Check your mind at the door!"
BB
Over and over again it happens with those who seek a "position of power"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rHuinnfVJo
I don't know if you have seen false prophet James Malm's blog yet, but he is claiming Doug Winnail wrote this because LCG members by incredible numbers are reading his blog and believing his teachings. I can tell you for a fact LCG does not give a rats ass about JamesMalm. Malm is about as irrelevant to LCG as Bob Thiel is. Malm is a liar.
Herbiebert was not baptized by a minister in the true church, so he was never converted. End of story.
I can tell you for a fact LCG does not give a rats ass about JamesMalm...
Who does?
I saw it. Malm and Thiel both think they are more significant than they are. Two wind bags filled with hot air.
These ACOG groups with all of the bitching, complaining and "mind control" is why after leaving that shit in 1997 I made a vow to myself and my husband that I would ONLY attend a sabbath keeping congregation that was independent from any denomination and free from any HWA nonsense. After years of searching we were thankful for the General Council of the Churches of God (Seventh Day) out of Boise, Idaho.
It may be a case if monkey-see, monkey-do. They know that LCG members frequently visit Banned, so pretend that they are also visiting their sites. Whatever the case may be, the major difference is that Banned tells the truth, and does not take tithes!
LOL,
BB
"Waldenses wore sabbots as opposed to actually being sabbatarians"
I read some of the Inquisition Transcripts from Toulouse.
Yep, the records state that for centuries they were being persecuted and wipped over the Alps for wearing slippers.................
Hahah.
On a more serious note. "The" Waldenses were probably not sabbattarians as a body. Although when the inquisitors rounded up entire villages for inquiry they often counted different sects amongst "infected" communities, a couple of Albigenzes, 2 or three visiting Waldensians and "those that keep sabbath like the jews".
The least trustworthy sources are those of the Franciscans since the Franciscans while initially persecuted by the Roman Clergy for their accussation of Roman oppulence, were later set up as a direct countermovement or philosophy against the Waldenses being increasingly popular amongst the poorer masses in rural areas.
nck
Rod Meredith would often get ideas from big-tithing wealthy members. It's only the "nobodies" who need to shut up and accept whatever the ministry is teaching.
I was in LCG for over a decade.
LCG teaches that you need to trust them, follow them, obey them just as you would trust/obey/follow the Lord. To do anything less puts your very salvation in peril (per LCG).
Anyone with half a brain can determine that this is classic cult brainwashing. They need members to believe it in order to maintain control and to get away with their abuses. Members tell themselves, "well we don't understand why they did such and such to so and so but they are God's servants on earth so there MUST be a reason". No. There's not a reason. It's just carnal, self-serving LCG ministers using their power to bully your friends and relatives. The less you question it, the easier it is for them to get away with it.
They do not represent our heavenly Father or His Son.
Nor does the Bible ever tell you to give unwavering faith and obedience to a man.
For people who claim to keep the entirety of the Bible, LCG members are often completely clueless.
Don't listen to Doug. He's just trying to preserve his power and control. Question everything. Prove everything. Look at the fruits of your leader's spirit. Don't listen to their manipulated numbers about growth, etc. Believe what you see. Not what you hear. There is no growth. LCG is not being "blessed". LCG headquarters puts a significant amount of energy into twisting and manipulating information so it looks better than it really is. Trust no one but God and please try to wake up.
LCG is not the Church of God.
"have a profitable sabbath". Yeah, well the only ones who have a 'profitable' anything are the men behind this Judaizing fake Christianity scam.
Winnail admonishes to hold fast to what the LCG sheep have been taught. St. Paul, according to his epistles, taught a lot about grace and justification. However, if the LCG sheep start talking or studying grace or justification, they are exploring the doctrines of demons, cording to Doug, since grace and justification are very minor footnotes in the voluminous records of the LCG teachings. The biblical topics of grace and justification have led to the liberation of many former COGers. Winnail does not want the LCG sheep to learn anything new about grace or justification because if the people knew the truth, he would soon be out of a job.
A member told me on multiple occasions that they loved talking to the minister because it was just like talking to God. I could only think if that was the case we are all screwed.
As for taking suggestions from anyone of a lower caste, the ministry would never sink that low. They forget the whole 'government' system that is lorded over everyone was not Moses' idea, but that of his father-in-law - suggestion which Moses followed.
And as for David, the epitome of top-down government, he took advice from a poor widow (II Sam 14). I wonder how many ministers listen to old ladies without feeling supremely superior?
And in the NT, when the HQ leadership was acting hypocritically, Peter stood right up to them - to their face! (Gal. 2:11-14), and there is no record of him being chastised for his defense of what was right. Is that how leadership works now?
These ministers who promote themselves as being God's representatives will eventually find out that they do not represent God and in fact blaspheme Him by their conduct. They will not be in the kingdom they preach.
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