Almost-ordained and almost-arrested Bob Thiel has an article up by John Ritenbaugh about prophets. It is ironic that Ritenbaugh writes about prophets/false prophets in the church. Ritenbaugh was the prophetic guru of many in the Glendale/Pasadena are for many years. Everything the man talked about people salivated over, copied, taped and shipped all around the country. Ritenbaugh has ended up like all of the other false prophets in the church, an epic failure!
All of us desire to know the future so we can be prepared for it. We want to be in control of our destinies and not at the mercy of events. However, some have this desire so strongly that they set themselves up as channels through which the future is revealed.
Such people have misled many. Deuteronomy 18, along with chapter 13, warns against such people. Whether they are called diviners, charmers, spiritists, or channelers, using methods like reading tea leaves, casting lots, or conducting séances, they are to be seriously and carefully avoided because there is no godly reality to their prognostications. Those seeking to know are being misguided, putting themselves at the mercy of lying demons, or at the very least, imaginative men and women.
At other times, simply following a church tradition regarding a prophecy can also mislead a person. This occurs because someone in the past, sincerely believing he understood a particular prophecy, began preaching his belief, and many in his audience then believed without the resources to prove the interpretation wrong. Due to frequent repetition, it came to be accepted as truth.
It is important for us to understand that prophets were not merely temporary and occasional expedients God would turn to. They played a vital and continuing role in Israel, especially in those times before the Word of God was widely distributed. This is why God makes provision for them within the law. He shows in many places that those He appoints to the prophetic office will always preach the keeping of the commandments of God as evidence of the Source of their inspiration. They will teach the conservation of past truths even as they break new doctrinal ground.
They both forthtell – that is, proclaim a message truthfully, clearly, and authoritatively to those for whom it is intended – and they will on occasion, but not always, foretell – that is, predict events before they take place.
It is misleading to believe these verses in Deuteronomy 18 apply only to Christ. His is undoubtedly their ultimate application, but the promise and description applies to all true, God-ordained prophets. Notice some of the identifiers in these verses:1. God established the foundational pattern for the prophetic office in Moses (“like me”).
2. God will raise a prophet up from among the Israelitish people. Later biblical sources show he might be drawn and appointed from any of the tribes and from any occupation. In other words, he did not have to be a Levite.
3. He will perform the function of a mediator between God and men (verses 16-18).
4. He will stand apart from the system already installed. He will not be antagonistic to the system, but he may be very antagonistic to the sins of those within the system, especially the leadership.
5. God will directly appoint and separate him for his office. Thus, the thrust of his service as God’s representative is direct and authoritative. By contrast, the priest’s function flowed from man to God by means of sacrifice – far less direct and more appealing and pleading than demanding. The New Testament ministry combines elements of both, but parallels the prophet’s function more than the priest’s.
Simply and broadly, a prophet is one who is given a message by another of greater authority and speaks for him to those for whom the message is intended. Thus, Moses was God’s prophet, but Aaron was Moses’ prophet.
Without a doubt, when we hear the word “prophet,” we immediately think of the Old Testament. This is a natural reaction because that is where most of them appear in the Bible. Our memory instantaneously brings forth names like Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and David – all great men. However, without a doubt, the two greatest prophets of all time appear in the New Testament: John the Baptist and Jesus Christ. John the Baptist is the last and greatest under the Old Covenant, and Jesus Christ is the first and greatest of the New.John W. Ritenbaugh
(The Berean, September 18, 2016)
Ritenbaughs comments above did not sit too well with Almost-ordained and almost-arrested Bob Thiel. Ritenbaughs comments make Almost-ordained Thiel out to be a false prophet. That irritated Almost-arrested Thiel so much that he made this comment, referring to himself, of course:
...the reality is that most real Christians will NOT accept biblical criteria for prophets in this age.
Sadly, many people in the Church of God (COG) have trouble believing that God actually uses prophets or how He would use them today.
The Apostle Paul makes it clear that not all are prophets. Prophet is an office and prophets are to prophesy. Although the position of groups like LCG is that it has NO prophets (which is the case as I stopped attending late on 12/28/12), it should be noted that its then top leader had repeatedly taught in the past that God may consider Bob Thiel to be a prophet
Almost ordained Thiel still continues to lie that Rod Meredith called him a prophet. Meredith may have had tons of faults, but Meredith was not that naive or stupid to call Almost-arrested Thiel a prophet.
Almost ordained Thiel is so sure that he is a prophet that he has to quote Jesus where he states that prophets will be reviled and persecuted. Almost-ordained Thiel likes to pretend he is being reviled and persecuted by those of us here and by those in other COG's who laugh and mock him. Such a sad little man.
Jesus taught:
Why should a Church of God member ever trust any of the false prophets of Armstrongism? Every one of them have proven to be liars, including Almost-ordained Thiel.11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (Matthew 5:11-12)Contrary to scripture, most end time Christians do not heed the following from the Apostle Paul:
20 Despise not prophesyings. (1 Thessalonians 5:20, KJV)
20 Do not despise prophecies. (1 Thessalonians 5:20, NKJV
The Almost-ordained false prophet then precedes to make a list of 38 different items that he claims all of the other COG's are in error on. See it here.
The lying false prophet is now dragging United Church of God into the mix. Not only does he claim LCG claimed he was a prophet, but UCG did too! He claims that LCG and UCG recognized that all 38 of his points were 100% accurate.
The church has had false prophets in its midst from its very inception. The Pasadena headquarters
It should be noted that leaders in the Living Church of God and/or the United Church of God confirmed to me personally that I was biblically correct on essentially all the above points, despite the fact that their respective churches hold to several of the errors pointed out above. Those who rely too much on a compromised ministry (Ezekiel 34:7-10) to teach them prophecy that is not truly in accordance with scripture need to realize that according to Jesus’ words in Revelation 2 & 3 and Luke 21, only relatively few Christians will be protected from the hour of trial that will come upon the whole world (Revelation 3:10;
was filled with them. Hardly a week went by when a new prophet would appear at the Hall of Ad proclaiming some absurd prophecy. Hundreds, if not thousands made their way to Pasadena over the decades. Every one of them is long gone and forgotten. Some had died, some still write silliness and publish it, and others finally hung up their prophetic glasses and got on with life, still as deluded as ever. Others like Almost-ordained Thiel and the Church Pharisee James Malm set themselves up as godly men do a "work". All they do now is toot their own horn and make idiotic predictions and then lie that they never did when confronted.
17 comments:
Making fun of Thiel is almost like shooting ducks in a barrel. His ludicrous claims, I'd hope, is evident to most of us, except the few brain dead holdovers and the ever looking for a handout, Africans.
He's an easy target because of his outlandish teachings and stands in line with the other crazy's who claim some type of preeminence and Godly or Biblical hierarchy role.
I saw first hand the danger that men like Ritenbaugh bring to the equation, as someone who was in his organization for several years. The biggest thing I noticed, was how his own family, all but one who are still with him, believe that any and everything he says, has God's stamp of approval on it and he is infallible.
Then, to make matters worse, it can take 10, 20, 30 or more sermons to make his points, often even contradicting himself in a later sermon, to one he made earlier in the series.
His son, the ego-centric heir apparent, walks in the same framework and methodology, as does his son-in-law, who must read every word of a sermon and can make watching paint dry, an exciting alternative.
He hates when someone questions any part of something he says or preaches, telling them to just re-listen to a sermon, to make sense of some of his outlandish claims, refusing one on one interaction, right out of the WCG playbook of lording it over, rather than serving in humility.
The organization has very active revolving doors, as people come and go more often, once they realize it really is more of a family business, than a place of safe haven and true servant leadership. What's interesting about this, is the family really could care less, as they deem themselves such intellectual giants, that the little minions who can't seem to capture their vision, were never with the program to begin with.
In my opinion, men like JWR are much more dangerous than imbeciles like Thiel, simply for the very reason mentioned in the first paragraph of this blog. He states many things almost in an HWA rant, as though God has given him this very special calling to impart such knowledge and yet he has pretty much refuted many things that were ever taught in WCG.
This is probably good in some ways, except he just replaces it with even more outlandish claims and builds upon the reputation he held in Pasadena and Glendale. In his case, unlike Thiel, he has the past credentials, whether valid is obviously arguable, that Thiel has taken upon himself.
Thiel is a clown most can see, while Ritenbaugh is more like the carnival barker of old, making you wait outside the tent, behind all the mind numbing rhetoric, to eventually see what is being promised, wasn't worth the admission and cost.
As I recall, the name of Ritenbaugh's mini-cult is "Church of the Great God". Its main offices are in North Carolina. Sometime in the 1990's Ritenbaugh hired a minister out of WCG named Philip Shields. Shields is a known pedophile and was moved around from congregation to congregation by WCG leadership much like how pedophile Catholic priests were. To the best of my knowledge Shields is still a pastor in Ritenbaugh's cult with unfettered access to little boys.
This is another guy who wouldn't even be in the conversation if it were not for Banned. And, since splinter- surfing is pretty much the only growth option left to the ACOGs, maybe he'll get a little bump at Thiel's expense.
BB
Prophets and apostles ended with the end of the 12 apostles and Christ.
Hebrews 1 confirms that:
1God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
No one else can supersede this. Christ was 'that prophet' who gave all answers. The bible is closed.
If there were prophets and apostles their words would be scripture and scripture is closed today.
C'mon, somebody in the ACOG universe must have something to say about this:
Sep 23, 2017
http://rapturewatch.net/2017-watch
It's an over-exposed topic at this point, Ronco. We're to the point now where some dude comes home from a hard day's work at the office, and his kid probably says, "Hey, Dad, did you see where another nutjob has predicted the end of the world for next week?"
The only difference, as it relates to all of us here is that when someone from outside of the Armstrong sphere of influence makes such a prediction, it makes national or international news. When a splinter leader makes the same type forecast, nobody outside his group even knows about it.
So much for having the inside track, or successfully warning the world! Normal humans could no longer credibly do that. It'd need to be someone spiritual like the two witnesses, and I don't mean ACOG people who feel like their prayers have confirmed that they are the two witnesses. LOL!
BB
8:30
Interesting what is spawned by Portland Oregon.
What is worrysome is that American Fundamentalist believers in a linear beginning and end of human civilisation ALWAYS seem to have a finger on the nuclear button. (for instance this fellow or the by hwa much respected ronald reagan who was known for his belief in armageddon).
But perhaps it is better to have a christian fundamentalist have a firm belief in a real ENDING than an Indian President who believes in "regeneration after catastrophe."
Or an Iranian president awaiting the return of the Mahdi at Dabiq (northern Syria) when the armies of the west clash with those of the East.
These people scared the hell out of the atheist Communists who readily dismantled their nuclear empire when confronted with actual believers in an end game........
nck
I agree. The Greek of Hebrews 1 actually says "in the last of these days".....the days of there being prophets....not "in these last days". Any modern claim to prophethood is to be met with a big question mark.
3.49 PM
The 12 apostles plus Christ is 13.
The 11 sons of Jacob plus Josephs 2 sons gives the 13 tribes of Israel.
The 7 feast days plus the last great day gives 8
8 and 13 are both Fibonacci numbers.
The number 7 by contrast is a Lucas number. Lucas numbers are not are potent as Fibonacci numbers.
Many years ago when Ritenbaugh was the pastor in Hammond, IN, he stated in a sermon that if a mother came to his door on the Sabbath with her little boy in her arms having a broken leg and asked Ritenbaugh to take her to the hospital, he would have declined, telling her he keeps God's Sabbath.
I couldn't take it! I got up and walked out to the hallway and punched a cement pillar. I called him "Righteousbaugh" because he was obviously more holy that Jesus, who didn't get the program about the Sabbath and because Christ dared to heal people on the Sabbath day. Of course you know the Pharisees condemned Jesus for "doing good" which was considered work on the Sabbath. What an extreme nut case. He was shortly called back to Pasadena to keep an eye on him and later he left to create his tiny empire "Church of the Great God".
It's amazing how person preaching the Bible can be so blinded to the core theme of love and service.
And your point of Fibonacci numbers is...?
if he could only learn how to count to Pentecost when passover falls on the Sabbath....
Why that's just like some of the bad examples Jesus cited, of some of the "citizens" who passed by the man who had been beaten and robbed before the good Samaritan arrived on the scene!
I have to laugh. These ACOG leaders miss the very obvious examples of themselves in the Bible, and pretend to compare themselves with people whom they could not be like in a hundred years!
BB
We had a minister once, (the son of a big name in the WCG) who said that if he saw a notice of an Amber Alert, and the car was right in front of him, he would not call the police and report it.
He said that is the world's problem, not ours.
I pretty much wrote him off as a minister after that.
Hey Ronco,
Goodbye!
(or maybe see you tomorrow at a new dawn)
nck
Anon 9:01 AM,
You wrote: "...The 7 feast days plus the last great day gives 8..."
How did you figure that out? The 7 Feast days include your so-called Last Great Day. When I think of Last Great Day, I wonder: "What is the First Great Day?"
John 7:37 says: "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink."
I personally prefer to refer to that 7th annual Festival as the Great Last Day, or as the Bible elsewhere calls it: the Eighth Day (Lev 23:36, 39).
Now, if you prefer using the same words as taught by WCG, then you statement would have to be revised to say:
"The 6 feast days plus the last great day gives 7"
But, RSK asked you: "And your point of Fibonacci numbers is...?"
Well, now you no Fibonacci numbers...
John
P.S. I do like that Fibonacci sequence, b/c the numbers exist all over the place within God's creation. The sequence demonstrates a growth pattern...enough to encourage one to believe there just really be One Lawgiver after all!
Time will tell...
John
None of them keep God's actual Holydays as ordained by the sun and moon and Genesis 1. They NEVER read the Law in the solemn seventh year at the Feast of Tabernacles, even if it is the correct year, and they don't both to find out what year that sabbatic year is; it's not just ANY year; and new moons, since they aren't one of the six working days, not a sabbath, aren't kept either. What would God say to them all if they don't keep those? And then there's the international date line. What a mess. Just read the Book and do what it says. It needs no interpreter: God is the Revelator.
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