Adult Sabbath School: The Unteachable Robert Thiel

 

This Posting is for Robert Thiel, only, 

as I am sure he will read it shortly.  

Whatever the context, you Robert, as head of God's one surviving True Church, keep taking Isaiah 28:10 out of it.

On August 31, 2020, you repeat, for the umpteenth time, your mistaken exegesis on how one is to study the Bible. In classic WCG mode, you once again make Isaiah 28:10 mean what it never meant.

Today, and once again, you perpetuate the error...

"The Bible Supports the View that It Tends to Literally Interpret Itself"

Notice what the prophet Isaiah taught:

Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message?…For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little”… But the word of the LORD was to them, “Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little,” (Isaiah 28:9,10, 13 NKJV)." Should you literally believe the Bible?

====================================================

In the past, you complained....

Dennis Diehl, and many others, have ignored and/or despised the following instructions as to how to understand doctrine: 

 

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (Isaiah 28:9-10,)" 

Apostate, former WCG minister, challenges COGwriter’s biblical interpretation methods: Which should you rely on? 

 

It is you, Bob, who ignoring the context and making this mean what it does not.

so once again...

How NOT to Study The Bible
(Or at least which scriptures not to use explaining how)
By The Apostate Former Minister

(Your label Bob)

 

 

Isa 28:10 (KJV) For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little. 

 

 

The above scriptures, very familiar to all COG ministers and members alike, have been misquoted, misused, and misunderstood for decades. Ministers of every denomination quote them when asked "just how should we study the Bible?" It is taken to mean that one studies the Bible line by line, topic by topic, skipping over here and then over there to find similar ideas and phrases that one can simply stitch together and come up with God's eternal truths on all things.

The modern term might be called "Proof Texting". Often it is simply the "hunt and peck" method to showing what you already want to be so is so.

In our common COG experience we have the Dave Packs, Gerald Flurry, Ron Weinland types, along with the bit players in the form of yourself, who employ this tiptoeing through the Bible, "here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept " and coming up with pure trash and self-righteous drivel instructing good men everywhere how to interpret scripture through their mistaken notions about them.

Dave Pack can wander all over the Bible, Old Testament and New and come up with his weird and strange ideas about himself as spoken of by the Prophet Haggai, like anyone ever heard of Haggai, and get members gyrating in their seats. You can spend all day making Bronze Age weather explanations the modern-day ones and tell us it is how God "tries" to get our attention. They all do by looking here a little and there a little, putting line upon line together, and coming up with weird and strange explanations galore.

...they and you are mistaken.

To begin with, Isaiah is written to the drunken priests of Ephraim. I know "context" is not a word most COG ministers are familiar with, but context is important. In verse 7 we see the priests and prophets are being chided, to say the least, for being drunk with beer and wine, whether actually, figuratively or both, befuddled and stumbling while they are seeing visions and making rather important decisions. Not exactly the way to go but with the Assyrians beating on the door, understandable.

 

 

⁷ And these also stagger from wine
    and reel from beer:
Priests and prophets stagger from beer
    and are befuddled with wine;
they reel from beer,
    they stagger when seeing visions,
    they stumble when rendering decisions.
⁸ All the tables are covered with vomit
    and there is not a spot without filth.



 

 

Not a very pleasant sight and the information they come up with is, to both Isaiah and Bible God, puke.

In reality, it is Isaiah mocking these fools with the following which has been taken as "here a little, there a little, line up line, precept upon precept" and how to study the Bible. Some commentators feel this is what the priests are saying to Isaiah for chiding them. They definitely are NOT having a discussion on how to study the scriptures!

9 “Who is it he (Isaiah to the Priests or they to him in scoffing) is trying to teach?

To whom is he explaining his message? to those just taken from the breast?

To children weaned from their milk,

10 For it is:
Do this, do that,
a rule for this, a rule for that[a];
a little here, a little there.”



 

Translation:

Who are you talking to? (Either Isaiah to the drunken priests or they to Isaiah ) Children? You sound like children. (Or Isaiah sounds like a child to them in "Who does he think he is?" mode)
blah, blah, blah, nah nah-nah nah nah, do this, do that, rules here, rules there. Always the rules!

Bible God is mocking these men and accusing them of baby talk. In context, to me and others, it seems more of Isaiah mocking them in their drunken state than they him but either way, it is not a treatise on how to study the Bible. It's an accusing blow out between Isaiah, Bible God, and the Priests with the Assyrians waiting in the wings.

In the original Hebrew, the phrase in Isaiah 28 verses 10 and 13 is: "sav lasav sav lasav, kav lakav kav lakav" It is pure gibberish and akin to our "la la la la" and "blah blah blah." It is a mocking tone imitating the drunken gibberish of the priests and prophets of Ephraim and Judah as Assyria knocks at the door to scrape them off the earth. It might also be that the drunken priests are mocking Isaiah as It is NOT a scripture one should use to teach how to study the Bible that's for SURE!

"You want baby talk? I, the Lord, will give YOU baby talk. Want to make more fun of Isaiah? Get ready for this..."

¹³ So then, the word of the Lord to them will become:
    Do this, do that,
    a rule for this, a rule for that;
    a little here, a little there—
so that as they go they will fall backward;
    they will be injured and snared and captured.

¹⁴ Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scoffers
    who rule this people in Jerusalem. 

 

Translation:

So then mister priest and prophet, you want to make fun of me for warning you? If that's the way you want to be then that's the way the Lord will teach you. Blah...blah...blah...nah nah nah nah nah...do this, do that. You like rules? I got rules! You will be over run by your enemies, you who rule Jerusalem. I will arrange for Assyria and the Babylonians to take you away.

(They would have no matter what, but Israel, being in the way between Africa and Europe, was always going to get overrun by someone. They spent a lot of their time trying to figure out why God was punishing them when in fact they just were in the way to the major nations seeking control as major nations are wont to do.)

 

So, there we have it. Short and simple. The next time you hear a Church of God Minister, Member or any devotee tell you that you study the Bible, "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little," just slap your head and explain it to them.

Isaiah 28:10, in CONTEXT, is Bible God/Isaiah mocking the drunken Priests of Israel (Ephraim) for issuing their rules to the people to "do this, do that" which sounds like baby talk and stupid, being drunk, while the enemies of Israel approach to take them away. It can also be viewed as the drunken priests scoffing at Isaiah first for warning them. Depends on the commentary. It cannot, however, be taken as the premier scripture on how to study the scriptures.

CONTEXT BOB.... It's not about how to study your Bible

Mysterious God

 

Southern CA Fires Are A Result Of Angy "god" Still Ticked Of About 1979

 

Armstrongism could not exist without its virulent, angry god just itching to destroy most of humanity. Unfortunately, that god is the most mentioned god in Armstrongism, except for the all-powerful Satan. 

This angry god was reinforced upon us weekly in sermons, magazine articles, and television broadcasts by Herbert Armstrong and his loyal band of Junior Gestapo agents. Members lived in fear of this god and yet were tantalized by the fact we were told we were to become little gods and godless and would be there to help hand out the punishments upon the backsliding reprobates of the sinful world.

It just frosts the butts of COG leaders and many members that the worldly people around have happier, more fruitful lives than they all do. It would be with great pleasure to see angry god come in power to wreak havoc upon the world.

The Church of God needs this to happen in order to "prove" their heretical teachings correct.

This brings us to that other self-appointed prophetic idiot, Gerald Flurry. He has this to say about the recent fires in Los Angeles and Altadena, CA.

Mile after mile of urban California is now embers and ash after the most ruinous fires in state history. Fierce winds up to 100 miles per hour ushered flames with breathtaking ferocity across roads, up hills and through neighborhoods, torching 10,000 buildings, killing at least 24 people, and leaving millions more tearfully coping with the losses. 

 

“[I]n recent days, many images of wildfire devastation coming over the newswires made the City of Angels look every bit like Hades: raging infernos, charred skeletal remains of homes, a smoke-filled amaranthine sky, weeping residents,” wrote James Hibberd for the Hollywood Reporter. “The frequency and intensity of fires statewide likewise feels new—seven of the eight largest California wildfires of all time have occurred in just the past four years” (January 8). 

 

That is fierce affliction! Why is this happening? What is the cause? There is a cause for this effect, and we must understand it.

The nation is cursed! Bob Thiel and Gerald's eyes glaze over in spiritual ecstasy at the mere thought!

Flurry continues:

With these recent fires, you will read biblical terms like Hades and apocalyptic to describe the scale of the devastation. But you have not heard any real discussion about God’s hand in these events. You will not read anything about how the Bible actually prophesies in dozens of passages of such terrible events! Over a hundred major Bible prophecies are unfolding in this end time! 

 

Yes, God foretells such curses, and He actually explains why we are being cursed! 

 

For years I have pinpointed a reason for California’s troubles that nobody else is talking about. You can read about it in those older articles I referenced. It may seem surprising, but I hope you will think seriously about it, because it truly is at the heart of what is happening in the Los Angeles area.

Did you know that one specific event in particular is what has led to these disastrous fires? It was the intervention of the State of California in the affairs of the corrupt Worldwide Church of God back in 1979.

Pasadena, California, is where Herbert W. Armstrong established the headquarters of the Worldwide Church of God (wcg) in the 1940s. He built that Church into a magnificent global work that helped millions of people through publications, television broadcasts, humanitarian projects and more, as well as local congregations all over the world. Because that was where he headquartered, his message reached California more than any place else on Earth. 

 

In 1979, the state of California launched a shocking, authoritarian and wholly unwarranted attack on Mr. Armstrong and the wcg. Guided by outrageously false allegations of financial mismanagement from disgruntled ex-ministers—despite financial and all other required records having been regularly and voluntarily filed—the state attorney general’s office took the extraordinary step of literally taking control of the Church. 

 

On January 3 of that year, they initiated a sudden armed assault on the headquarters facility. A receiver secretly appointed by the court tried to take over and operate God’s Church, seizing the Church’s assets, appropriating its income, and usurping all authority. This action utterly defied the United States Constitution, most egregiously the protection of freedom of religion. 

 

No evidence of wrongdoing by the Church was ever found. Thus, on Oct. 14, 1980, the attorney general dropped all charges and dismissed the case. Later, the appellate court ruled that the lawsuit was “without foundation.” 

 

California is the only state that ever attacked Mr. Armstrong and his work. But as Mr. Armstrong spoke out very forcefully, they were doing something much worse than that: They were attacking the living God! 

 

Old Six Pack loves to pretend that the Worldwide Church of God was a bastion of truth and upright behavior when the State came storming in. It was anything but that. Yet, Flurry and others turned this into an attack against God instead of a corrupt church.

He writes:

What a grave mistake it is to attack the living God! 

 

Is it possible that God is still cursing California because of the diabolical actions of those corrupt leaders? 

 

The late California Sen. Barbara Boxer said, “California has gone through too many tragedies and too frequently.” She was right! But why is that? Is it because the state attacked the living God? 

 

You can certainly verify that the state of California did attack God and the message of God. That was criminal, beginning to end, and a terrible sin! What happens to someone who attacks God Himself? What will God do about it? He will respond. “Vengeance is mine,” He says (Romans 12:19). 

 

This may not sound real to you—but it is reality!

Lord Six Pack claims that Herbert Armstrong. as Elijah, restored families and all things. Yet, Furry glosses over how dysfunctional Armstrong's own family was and how the church literally ripped families apart and destroyed relationships, much like he is doing today in their own cult with his appalling "no contact" ruling.

God promised to send a man in the spirit of Elijah the prophet right at the end of human history, in the days just before Jesus Christ’s return. That prophetic office was filled by Herbert W. Armstrong. That is how important he was! And he did a mighty work to build strong families: He established programs such as schools and summer camps; he provided spiritual instruction for both parents and children, including books like Why Marriage—Soon Obsolete? and The Missing Dimension in Sex (both available free upon request). Family was key to his entire 50-plus-year ministry.

In Matthew 17:10-11, Christ spoke of this same end-time Elijah, and said that he would “restore all things.” He established the true doctrines of the Bible in the Church of God, just as God prophesied he would. He was here, and now he has died and is gone.

Lord Six Pack continues blaming the ministry who rebelled against Herbert and the law of the Worldwide Church of God (note: This means YOU, Bob Thiel!). 

The prophecy of Malachi is a strong warning aimed at God’s own ministers who rebelled against Him. In these verses that conclude the book, God says, You must bring families together—physical families, and the Family of God, the way Mr. Armstrong did. If you fail, you will lose your salvation unless you wake up! The “curse” in Malachi 4:6 is the loss of eternal life! This is the strongest warning you could imagine! 

 

Oh, how our society needs strong families! But families are being broken apart more and more. God says that is a great sin. Surely you can see that a strong nation needs strong families. A nation without solid families is very weak. 

 

God’s Word teaches us how to build our families, if only we will listen. There is mind-staggering hope in that—and in the fact that very soon, God will be building the Family all over Earth!

Sadly, Armstrongism has destroyed more families than anyone dares to imagine.  Facebook, YouTube, Snapchat, TikTok, X, Reddit, and countless other groups are filled with horror stories of what Armstrongism has done to individuals and families. There is NOTHING godly about Armstrongism and its hundreds of splinter groups, particularly when it comes to some of the more malevolent degenerates littering the COG landscape today.

Incompetent government officials, a once-in-a-decade Santa Ana wind of up to 100 mph, a spark from a Southern CA Edison power lies, dry shrubbery, and happenstance led to this disaster (at least in Altadena). Stop blaming everything on the petty, pathetic, pissed off god of Armstrongism. That god will never be satisfied. Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack, and Bob Thiel are making sure of that.

 

New Video: From Worldwide Church of God Cult Kid to Atheist: Lisa’s Journey of Deconstruction and Healing

 

Welcome to the Apostate Sisters Interview Series! In this episode, we sit down with Lisa, a fellow survivor of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG), who shares her incredible journey of deconstruction, resilience, and self-discovery. Lisa's story begins as a freshman at Ambassador College when the 1994 doctrinal changes shook the foundation of the WCG and changed the trajectory of her life. From navigating other religious environments, earning a Master of Divinity, and working as a hospital chaplain, to ultimately embracing atheism while serving as a missionary, Lisa’s journey is a profound testament to living with integrity. In this candid and enlightening conversation, Lisa discusses: The impact of the WCG’s 1994 changes on her faith and identity. Her experiences as a hospital chaplain and the fascinating insight that religious delusions are universal in such cases. Deconstructing religion, gender, and god while reclaiming her voice. How her time as a missionary brought her to the realization that she no longer believed in god. Lisa is sassy, smart, and full of insights about the process of healing after a high-control religious environment. If you’ve ever questioned your faith, struggled with your beliefs, or sought to reclaim your own voice, this episode is a must-watch. 💬 Join the conversation! Share your thoughts and questions in the comments. 🎥 Subscribe to the Apostate Sisters for more survivor stories and healing journeys! Socials and Support Links: YouTube: /‪@ApostateSisters‬ Subscribe and Click that bell! Instagram:   / apostatesisters   Facebook:   / apostatesisters   TikTok:   / apostatesisters   BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/apostatesist... 🌟 Support Our Work: Patreon: https://bsky.app/profile/apostatesist... Supers now available on the channel! Give us a thanks!