Dale Schurter: "I Have Strayed From The Truth," "I Have Washed My Mind"

Never underestimate the power of these blogs.  As much as we are hated by many of the diehard Armstrognites, they are regular readers here and elsewhere.  I guess they love to be titillated, or they silently admit that their news sources are not as good as ours.

On January 14th, I published the comments of a reader here as a blog post, Dale Schurter: The Master of Flip Flopping (Updated)   It has went viral through many COG networks and has landed at the feet of Davie Pack and  Dale Schurter.  You may have noticed the week long absence of posts from Schurter during his reeducation process when Davie got wind of his many heretical beliefs.

Today Schurter and RCG's PR machine had to answer some of those accusations.  His comments are very telling of the cult mentality he has jumped ship into.

He starts off by laying blame at UCG's feet for his actions. He claims he was not following "true church government" and that he sinned by sharing his papers with his congregations on various topics.  Ministers only write papers on subjects that are dear to them. Schurter is being disingenuous by trying to pass the buck.

Those in the United Church of God understand that this group allows, or encourages, local ministers to present “study papers” and include input from local members before sending them on “up the ladder.” I personally have worked on several research, study projects, and would sometimes share the study with the local congregations I pastored. The idea was for brethren to be like the Bereans, who “searched the scriptures daily, whether these things were so,” and to give feed-back and input, etc. It was always my intent to help broaden and deepen our understanding of a doctrine (if doctrine were indeed involved). While well-intentioned, I now realize this was wrong.

Obviously Schurter has had to deal with the wrath of Pack on the various weird beliefs that he had when he jumped ship to RCG.  Schurter has had to "repent" of his grievous and erroneous beliefs that have watered down church doctrines

Without church government as we understood was restored to God’s True Church through Mr. Armstrong, this type of confusion occurred. And, yes, through anointing my eyes with more oil and eye-salve, I found that I had some repenting to do…and I have; and as I continue to see more clearly, I continue to restore the full truth in my life, lifestyle and teachings. This includes repenting of my slow changing and watering down of church doctrine, traditions and practices because I had lost sight of how---through which office---doctrine is placed into God’s Church.

Schurter goes on to say he had to "wash out his mind" in order to fit in to Dave Pack's off the wall  beliefs. Washing ones mind sounds a whole lot better than saying "brainwashing."  It is quit obvious that we are all first hand witnesses to a real brain washing by Davie Pack and what it does to his followers.

While the “modern” approach appeals to the typical twenty-first century, democracy-oriented mind, it is wrong---and the fruits make this plain. Just this practice makes it impossible to follow Paul’s exhortation in I Corinthians 1:10: “Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” This is the environment that I realized I had to come out of, after learning many hurtful lessons from inside it. And I have had to wash out of my mind the approach used there---so different from what God established and used through Mr. Armstrong’s tenure as Apostle and Pastor General of the Church of God. Mr. Armstrong’s---and the Bible’s---approach, and this washing is an ongoing process.

Through Dave Pack's miraculous, mind boggling inspiration, Schurter has had to admit he has "strayed" from truth.

Some of what has been reported of my past beliefs is true. Thus, I found I had strayed, although unintentionally, from truths in a number of areas. I realized from scripture that one cannot be “partially” in a Laodicean era condition, we are either Laodicean or we are not.

One of the things we nailed him on was his widely know belief in the "sacred names" malarkey.  Many Armstrongites have gravitated to this legalistic belief system.  Schurter was one of them, no matter how much he wants to gloss it over.  Too many people have heard him talk about it.

For example, I developed an incorrect focus on the Hebrew names of God. I did not intend to be part of any “sacred names” movement (and I never taught that it is “evil” to say “God” or “Jesus Christ”). Our Father’s and Savior’s names are pronounced differently in many different languages, including English, Spanish, Italian, German, Hebrew, etc. However, I often over-emphasized the Hebrew to the point of creating a potential stumbling block. I firmly believe that we should speak God’s names in our native languages…wherever we live around the world. Those who make Hebrew names a point of contention become self-righteous and divisive. This can be seen among some groups that make the “sacred names” their sole identity. 

 The next thing we had reported on him was his belief in a "young earth."  This did not sit well with Davie and as a result, Schurter has had to repent of that understanding and return to what Pack believes and HWA taught.

I had also moved toward the idea of a “young earth,” based on certain Bible translations. I had a certain line of reasoning driving my thinking. I had forgotten that Mr. Armstrong was settled in his mind on this by explaining the time “gap” between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2, and re-confirmed it in his final book, Mystery of the Ages. 

Next he calls those who made claims about new moons and other astrological events are lairs. I guess Dale seems to forget that there are countless people that have heard him talk about this.

This said, some of what has been presented regarding my past is either misrepresentation or pure fiction. I did study new moons from the agricultural perspective, as astronomical events related to growing seasons, and the way to mark the beginning of a month, years, etc., using God’s calendar. Most of this stems from when I was asked by Mr. Armstrong to lead the agricultural department at Big Sandy. But I never advocated new moons as holy days for the church to observe, as some have proposed. And, I also continue to believe and teach that the Sabbath begins and ends at sunset, not at any other time. Recent reports to the contrary in order to discredit me (and RCG) are simply invention, or perhaps the intent of what was spoken/heard was communicated poorly, not understood correctly, or both.

Schurter writes:

Many of you may believe that, “in your own way,” you are holding to what you learned from God through Mr. Armstrong. But I have learned how far one can drift from his teachings, traditions, and example and not realize it!

No where in his entire letter did Schurter mention following Jesus.  It is all about following Dave Pack as he follows the teachings of Herbert Armstrong.  You have to look far and in between to find Dave Pack talking much about Jesus too.  It's all law, all the time.  But have no fear, Schurter is just like Hebrew prophets and leaders.  They were sinful men used by God and he (Schurter) is a sinful many being used by God.  Through Dave's almighty instructions he has come to see the error of his ways and has repented.

I am encouraged when I recall that mistakes made by Moses, King David, and others are recorded in Scripture for our learning---and that, because of their repentance, they still will receive great reward in God’s kingdom. It is good to again be in the Government of God. Again, the good fruits of The Work He is accomplishing through the leadership of the Pastor General of the Restored Church of God, Mr. David Pack and his support team, is both encouraging and inspiring. On a more personal note, I have heard Mr. Pack say, just as Mr. Armstrong often said both publicly and privately, “I have made mistakes in the past for which I have repented and also, when proven wrong, I changed and corrected the error.” Good example.

Dave Pack has used this heretical beliefs of Schurter as a tool for reeducation and publicity.  Schurter says he has repented and had his eyes anointed.  Lo and behold, Pack as a booklet on that same topic!

Brethren and friends, if my public admissions, needing to anoint my eyes, repent and change will help others to do the same, this would be a rewarding joy. I do urge you to seek God’s help to anoint your eyes. You will find Mr. Pack’s book, “Anoint Your Eyes – Christ’s Warning to His People,” contains all of the scriptures to recognize where one stands, and how to go about the anointing.

Schurter signs off by letting you know that other ministers who are "chomping at the bit to write about their exodus from pagan, filthy UCG into the glorious light of the Restored Church of God.  Besides, these men will need to write as Schurter continues his reeducation at the feet of Apostle Pack.

Please understand that I am deluged with emails and calls, and that other RCG ministers who were formerly in UCG (and some in other splinters) will be writing posts for the next period of time. It was always the plan to include other voices on this website (as outlined in “About This Website”). These men are “chomping at the bit” to add support to what I have written over the last week and a half.

Not once has Schurter mentioned he was following Jesus.  That alone tells a whole lot about what a fool Schurter has turned into.  Maybe I should not have said that, now we will get to see a flurry of posts from Schurter and other defecting Ministers all talking about how they are following Jesus.

Why anyone in their right mind would continue to follow this man now is beyond belief.  Members of UCG know exactly what this man was like, what he believed and taught.  Even though he was widely liked, they know exactly what he taught no matter how much he denies it.  Now he has done a 180 degree turn and seen the light; in one of Amstrongism's more aberrant cults.  Since he made such a dramatic turn around and has now repented of countless beliefs, what is there to make us want to believe him now? The mind washing and reeducation in Restored Church of God must be mighty powerful.  Especially since it has been revealed that RCG only has 2,100 members.

To read Schurter's entire letter click here:   The Choice God’s People Face

COGer Teaching Other COGers about Cults

Church of God-Speaking to the Remnant

I guess it takes one to recognize one.  The only trouble is that cult recognition usually happens when a person leaves an Armstrongite splinter cult and their eyes are opened at the abuses they have just left behind.  It is worse when it is an Armstrongite who sees these things and then justifies it all by remaining in their respective splinter cult thinking their group has none of these traits.  Then there is also the group that claims that the early Christians and the Catholic Church was originally considered a cult therefore COGs are in good company..

So now we have another group in Armstrongism who thinks they have all the answers. Of course this is another Church of God like all the others. Just like all the other splinter cutls, its all about the law.  Law, law, law, hardly anyting about Jesus but tons of crap about the law.

This one is another Church of God but has attached Remnant to it's name: Church of God-Speaking to the Remnant.  Why do all these splinter cults think they are something special?  Remnant?  Really? REALLY?

Like in true Armstrongite blinded to reality in the church,  they have to start off bashing all the web sites and blogs that point out the foibles of Armstrongism.  This person has listed all the different character traits of those who expose Armstrongism. For all of you that expose the crap of Armstrongsm you are suffering from one of the following:

Sadly, many who know anything about the true “Worldwide Church of God” have gotten their information off of websites or out of books by people who no longer even believe in God. Many of these misfits were told to leave the Church because they abused their wife, practiced homosexuality, taught false doctrine, etc. After refusing to admit their sins and become clean in God's eyes, they instead chose the path of sin and began to make false accusations against the true Church. Anger consumes them! “For their heart studieth destruction, and their lips talk of mischief.” [Proverbs 24:2] 

Then he goes on to uses HWA's favorite method of reasoning: "Don't believe me, believe the Bible."   We have all seen how well that has worked out! 

Most of the hateful information found on these websites and books is arrogant jargon. They make claims that all true members of the Church are “evil”, “confused”, “lost”, etc. The fact is, these people should be testing all claims based on what the Bible says, not what any man says. I challenge all people who visit this website and read my articles to test it all against the Word of God. The fact is, these people just do not want to live the Christian life. Thats okay but why so much anger against the truth? This should not surprise us. These types killed almost all the apostles and hung Jesus from a stake. Making a clean break from false worship may not be very fun. Jesus warned that one's relatives may oppose such a course. But if we are called of God this should make no difference in our decision. [Matthew 10:32-37] If we truly love God we will run to Him. We will throw away all of our false doctrines and cherish the TRUTH!

This much he got right.  After Herb died hundreds of splinter cutls were formed.  Just a a few are: LCG, PCG, RCG, GCG, CBCG, UCG, COGWA, CGG etc.

It is true that after the first latter day apostle's death many broke away from the true Worldwide Church of God and started cults. Many of these groups have leaders who use scare tactics, power tactics and even pay people to help them control others. This also should not surprise the true Christian. The apostle Paul from the Bible warned: “For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock

His qualifications for cults are as follows. Most of these are truly irrelevant. 

Cults Have False Apostles and Prophets: False groups teach false doctrines and their leaders have some sort of egomaniac problem. Instead of putting God, His Law and His Word first they seem to stress importance in themselves.

Cults Try to Control: Another aspect of cults is the fact that they use fear to try and control their people. Now we must remember that there is such a thing as “healthy fear”. We should be afraid of those trying to hurt us...Just because true Christians do these things does not, from a Biblical standpoint, make them “cult” members. God leaves it up to you, the individual to make the choice. No true Christian is commanded to control you or some how force you into believing the TRUTH. But cults do indeed try and use psychological tactics and sometimes physical tactics to do just that....

How You Live Your Life Matters: You have a choice in these Last Days...days of confusion and spiritual battle, to make a choice about your future. You can live a happy future or a miserable one. No man can make that choice for you. No cult leader, no denomination, no “spiritual” teacher. You must make the ultimate choice. How you live your life does not just effect you and others...IT EFFECTS GOD.

Fault Finders & Accusers of the Brethren: For those who have the true Gospel be prepared for hard times! We [true Christians] have the TRUTH, not “a truth”. When we fail sometimes to live up to the truth we find many around us begin to swarm in like flies to begin the “breaking down” process. These are nothing but demonic attacks to try and discourage you and make you turn from God's truth. Just because a Christian fails sometimes to live a perfect life it does not change the fact that Saturday is Sabbath, Jesus is Lord, and His one true church is the one and only Worldwide Church of God....There are many instances in the Bible where the people would judge the messenger instead of the message. This happened with the prophets. King David murdered, worshiped false idols and many other sins he committed but through him God wrote part of the Bible. King David wrote many beautiful Psalms. When we look at the type of people Jesus chose to be His apostles we see some sinful men. But no matter who God ultimately chooses God continues to tell them to not give up, to continue to try and follow His commandments no matter what anybody else says.   

He never touches on the dangerous aspects of cults and how they damage the person mentally, spiritually and physically.  Instead it is just superficial fluff.  If he exposed the falsehoods, lies, the mental manipulation, the physical abuse and spiritual abuse he would have to condemn his own splinter cult. But no, it is better to keep one's head in the sand with their butt in the air as they continue to make asses of themselves.

"Gentile Idiots," "Nincompoops," and Pretend Jews: A COG Wallet Drainer

 The Good News About Herbert W Armstrong

Just when you thought Armstrongites could not get any crazier along comes another one out of the woodwork.  This one comes to us based out of the Philippines.  When you read through it you have to ask, is this for real or is it a parody?  It is just so off base that it could be parody, especially when it starts talking about "Sweet young things" donating money.  :-)  Though, it is just crazy enough to attract COG members over to it!

This site claims to have been aorund since 2000.  This one is unique above all others though because they claim to be neither Christian or Messianic Jews.  They despise Messianic Jews as frauds and the same for Christians.  Like any true Armstrongite splinter cult they know all. They are the ONE and ONLY "congregation" that follows the truth of Jesus that is wrapped up in all the useless laws of Judaism.  This should appeal to the hardliner Armstrongites that try as hard as they can to be Jewish while worshiping HWA's teachings.

On September 10, 2000, Adonai Eloheinu placed in the possession of Rav Yeshua Ed a book written by J.R. Church titled ‘Hidden Prophecies in the Psalms.’ Rav Yeshua is able to decode the Sefer Tehillim better than Mr. J.R. Church on account of the prayer he asked face to face before Rabbi Yeshua that his eyes could see clearly. There are many authors of prophetic books who wrote of things they did not fully understand like Michael Drosnin of The Bible Code 2. Some people are given understanding and knowledge that many people do not have.

The New Jerusalem congregation started as a religious organization with the Key of David in its possession already. The Key of David is a key that helps us understand biblical prophecies and their fulfillments in the latter days of mankind.

I wonder if Gerald Flurry knows about this?  Two crackpot Armstrongites both claiming to have The Key Of David.  Only in Armstrongism!

Remember this. When you worship, worship God like what the Orthodox Jewish people are doing. Flee Christianity. Set yourself free from Messianic Judaism now. Worship God not in the same way that the born-again Christian group are doing. Even though they believe, God will not welcome them in the coming Kingdom of God.

 For instance the Jewish rabbis have confused all of the believers in Jesus Christ as Notzarim or Christians and Catholics alike. They think of all the believers as Roman Catholic Church members.  Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Christians worship God in the spirit of rebellion and idolatry. Therefore, it must be Jesus who taught the Christian people to do what they are doing in the past and in this present time, they conclude.

The New Jerusalem congregation is not a Christian congregation. Only idiot (sic) believes the words ‘congregation’ and ‘church’ are different from each other. If your group is sporting the word ‘church’ you must be Christian or if you are a congregation, you are Jewish. 

The Kingdom of God is Jewish. And so are we in Kahal Yerushalayim Hachadasha (The New Jerusalem Congregation in Hebrew).

You only convert once with us.

 Then to appeal to a small segment of Armstrongism they get into the sacred names crap:

Rabbi Yeshua Bar El heads and leads the New Jerusalem congregation in a way the people on earth would not be able to comprehend. The righteous and knowledgeable people on earth know that this Yeshua is the son of Miriam and Yosef way back on his birth at 5 BCE.

Yeshua Ed is the Hebrew name of the administrator of the New Jerusalem congregation. The title ‘rav’ means a teacher. The Hebrew word ‘rabbi’ explicitly means ‘my teacher’ or ‘my master.’ In the New Jerusalem congregation we only have one master and that is Rabbi Yeshua Bar El a.k.a. Yeshua Ben Yosef veMiryam.

We have two entities in the New Jerusalem congregation with the Hebrew name of Yeshua. Yahshua is not the name of Jesus Christ in Hebrew even if it seems the same. But once you learned Hebrew language you will realize Jehovah is not the correct pronunciation of YHVH. Yahweh is not also the proper pronunciation of the name of God in its transliterated form. Only the uncircumcised Gentile idiots and nincompoops of this world use the names of Yahshua, Jehovah, Yehovah and Yahweh as the names of the G-d they worship. (emphasis mine)

Since their leader uses the name "Yeshua" in his title he is referred to as "Jesus". Only true truth is revealed through this lunatic.  Again, this should really appeal to the Armstrongites.....

However, I do have to hand it to them for being "different" from the other COG's.  This one uses Katy Perry videos in their web pages......The Seven Churches    Now all we need is Rod Meredith to start using "Pet Shop  Boys" on his web site......oh wait, that's too obvious....

If you are a believer in Jesus the Promised Messiah of Israel, what generation among the seven Churches do you belong to?

 Are you a Philadelphian or a Laodicean?

 Are you an Ephesians or a Smyrnians?

You will now know the truth about the seven Churches of God.

 You need to register so you can access the true interpretation of the seven letters of Jesus to the seven Churches. But the creation of account in our website is not accessible to the public at this point. I am not in my best mood at this time. Account shall be created personally by Admin for a donation of $ 10.00 to our Paypal account.

 Otherwise, you wait until I finish writing the little book of Revelation.

 So if you want to access articles concerning the content of the Book of Revelation, contact us after you have sent your ten dollar donation. Give us your email account and we will register your e-mail address for an account in this website.

 A young and beautiful thing can get a free registration here. The dead and dying can also get a free registration. Simply send us your picture and we will register you personally. If we owe you money or any thing, you are entitled also for a free registration. But consider our debt paid.

 The Two Witnesses are also entitled for a free registration.

 If you donate, $ 5,000.00 to our Paypal account you can consider this website yours. Your name is going to be in the by-line of all the articles that will be created starting from the date of your donation.

 Shalom Aleichem to all who would land in this page!

They do have one rather LARGE character trait that sets them apart from the rest of Armstrongism. This should really make Gerald Flurry and Meredith boiling mad that they never thought of it.  They have a link on their web page for people to send in "Offerings for Sin".    Maybe our Yahooists can join up and tell us the details!  :-)

That is what the little orange (yellow?) button is. It is a test that only the true Philadelphians can pass. A $100.00 donation means you are ready to enter the gate of righteousness where only the righteous can enter in. Please send us a note stating the amount of your sin offering for we want to know who you are. It is like, we will go through hell and high water to bring you people to the place of safety we know as Eretz Yisrael—at the border.

Entertaining, to say the least!  All power to the Nincompoops!

Dennis on Weinland: "Oh Ye Of Little Faith?"

Oh Ye Of Little Faith?

Last weekend I had the rare Saturday afternoon off from the spa where I work in therapeutic massage.  Januaries are like that.  So I tuned into Ron Weinland's sermon to hear what Witness One had to say.  Ron , as we know, is one of the very true Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 and Pastor Only of the Preparing for the Kingdom of God Church of God. 

I'm am writing this to those of you from Ron's congregation or who follow him as if he really was who he thinks he is....but is not.  

I would have hoped that most would have learned by now to question their minister when he claims to see himself written of and spoken of in the pages of the Bible.  I mean really, what's the chance?  I suppose believing such things goes back to when we got "Waterhoused" over who and what everyone from HWA to GTA to Joseph Tkach were in the pages of the Bible and the mind of God, but look back and see how well that went.  

If HWA brought the hearts of the father's to the children and the children to the father's," etc, I guess I don't see it.  If Joseph Tkach was a "Weaver" then all i got from that is that he used lousy material, mixed his fabrics and it all fell apart as a very inferior garment.  What i mean is that if you look at what was supposed to be what, it was not and still isn't.'  Personally, if I have to be under a Ron Weinland, Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry type in the Kingdom...well,  can I just have a log home in the mountains and be left alone?

Ron thinks that holding back your money over the next few months, "just in case," is a total lack of faith.  Those of you who do this, congratulations, it is a total exercise in common sense and proper care of yourself and your family.  Don't quit your day job as they say.  

Somehow, Ron had found out that some of his very own congregation were holding back on their offerings and funds that he would really like to get his hands on "just in case Jesus doesn't return " in May of this year. (2012)  I expect that a year or so from now, this article will seem prophetic, but I spare you.  Don't confuse prophecy for Common Sense.

He chided you for your lack of faith.  I think he must of said, "incredible" in there somewhere because that is what Ron always says when he simply can't understand why others do or don't do what he does or doesn't do.  

But we have to talk...

Please don't put all your hopes, dreams , faith and resources into Ron's opinion, and it is just an opinion, of what the immediate future holds for you. No God is going to chide you for your caution.  "Prove all things.." remember?

 I listened to Ron totally misuse the original context and meaning of the Book of Daniel to motivate you to see the error of your ways on this putting all your eggs into one basket thing.  Ron does not really know the historical context , setting of or even the actual time and peoples to whom the Book of Daniel was written, so of course he can't get it right to begin with.  But please, please, do your own homework and draw your own conclusions.  

Anyone can be a Bible reader.  When you read the Bible like a newspaper, which you should not do, you can come up with all sorts of hope that "time is short," "the day is far spent," or it is time to reveal things "which must shortly come to pass."  Ron never notices that ALL those verses were addressed to people 2000 years ago who just knew the end of the age was upon them and Jesus would soon return.   From our perspective, we now know that they were wrong.  How badly it hurt them, their families and resources we don't know.  The Bible never really tells us the rest of those kinds of stories.  I always wish Paul had not just told us what a loser he was ("The things that I should not do I do and the things I should do I don't," but what exactly he did or did not do that made him such.  But alas, I know the trick.  I'm a bad person, I do bad things but don't ask for specifics.  We'd probably all feel better if Paul had told us specifically how he was just like us.

 Ron, like most, read the New Testament as if it was written yesterday to all of you today, but that would be wrong wouldn't it?  Ministers get around that by fooling you about the idea of "types."  Remember when Ron was wrong about a date or event awhile back that you all had been earnestly looking for and when he had to finally speak up about his failure, HE BLAMED YOU!   I remember him saying something to the effect that "You people took it all wrong.  I didn't mean it was physical, I meant it was spiiiiiiritual.....incredible."   Evidently most of you bought it as you are still there waiting for the next shoe to drop. 

I prophecy ahead of time you will hear, "God is giving us more time," or "Who knew God had even MORE to reveal to me!   I never know until we get to that time where God talks to me and tells me more!!!"   Of course, Ron is full of bullshit on this, but it's a great technique and keeps you in your seats doesn't it...

I don't question (maybe one should) Ron's sincerity, perspectives, motives or way he filters his world both Biblical and currently, but I do question his common sense and wisdom.  Do you?  You do realize that every prediction about the imminent return of Jesus, every date set, every expectation expressed, sermon given, shortly, soon and almost ever expressed on this topic over the past 2000 years has been 100% wrong 100% of the time don't you?  What's the chance a real Deity is talking to Ron and will get it right this time.

I will spare you from the entire argument that Jesus is not coming back at all and all of the Bible including the New Testament is past history but that is terribly hard for us all, me included to accept.  Even in the New Testament after the Apostle Paul had told the married to be as they weren't and those that were not married to forget about dating and marriage at that point, (hmmm, sounds familiar?), we find Paul was dead wrong. 


Real people listened to Paul, adjusted their lives accordingly and ended up with nothing to show for it but less funds and broken relationships.  Of course, Paul never said, "I apologize,"  "I meant well,"  "I thought that voice in my head and light in my eyes that spoke to me was real but I guess not,'" or anything like that.  He turned on the church and accused them of being "scoffers who asked where was this coming of Jesus we keep hearing about."  Please stop and realize that to Paul these people of common sense were scoffers, but in fact, they were right.  Time was not proving to be short nor was the day shown to be far spent.  Life went on, Paul said basically, "oh well, I fought a great fight. It was fun while it lasted.  I kept the faith.  I came up with and I know there is laid up for ME a crown of righteous which I guess you get too maybe someday...gotta go."

I know you will have a hard time with this, but from all we can see and read in the New Testament,  the Apostle Paul, Peter, James, John, all the Elders, all the opening prayer givers, all the closing prayer givers, Deacons , Deaconesses, False prophets and false apostles and yes....even Jesus as presented to us in the Gospels was wrong about the arrival of that Kingdom and just how soon it would be upon them.  "We shall not all sleep but we shall be changed, " for them and every prophecy haunted minister and church since has turned into "We shall all sleep...deal with it."

I am speaking to you with a sincere heart.  I suppose in some way, I am ministering to you in a really weird way from what you have always thought of what ministers do.  Actually I am no longer a minister but go with me on this concept.  :)  

PLEASE DO NOT LET RON WEINLAND CHIDE YOU FOR YOUR LACK OF FAITH IN HIS OPINIONS

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT THE WAY HE SEES AND FILTERS THE BIBLE THROUGH HIS BRAIN IS HIS OPINION

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU ARE TO 'PROVE ALL THINGS' THEN YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT RON IS IN TOUCH WITH GOD NOR GOD WITH HIM IN ANY REAL WAY THAT CAN BE PROVEN

PLEASE REALIZE THAT ANY REAL GOD IS NOT OUT TO TRICK OR DECEIVE YOU AND THAT THESE THEOLOGICAL DISASTERS IN THE MAKING IS MERELY DUE TO THE LACK OF WISDOM AND COMMON SENSE OF YOUR PASTOR

PLEASE GIVE IF YOU MUST.  IF THAT IS WHERE YOUR TREASURE IS THEN LET YOUR HEART FOLLOW, BUT PLEASE USE YOUR OWN COMMON SENSE AND PROVIDE FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR OWN "JUST IN CASE."  JUST IN CASE IS NOT A SIN.  IT IS BEING RESPONSIBLE.  YOU KNOW...'IF A MAN PROVIDES NOT FOR HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD HE IS LESS THAN AN INFIDEL.." OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

LEARN TO SAY DIRECTLY TO MR. WEINLAND, SHOULD THE NEED ARISE, "PLEASE MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS ON HOW I PERCEIVE MY FAMILY RESPONSIBILITIES SHOULD THIS REALLY BE THE END OF THE AGE OR REALLY NOT."

PLEASE FIND A WAY TO DISCONNECT THE RING IN YOUR NOSE THAT RON HAS THE LEAD FIRMLY ATTACHED TO.  FOLLOW IF YOU MUST BUT FOLLOW ON YOUR OWN TERMS.  RON CAN NEVER PROVE TO YOU THAT HIS WAYS ALONE ARE GOD'S WAYS OR THAT YOUR CAUTION IS UNBIBLICAL OR A TOTAL LACK OF FAITH.  REMEMBER, RON IS ACTUALLY ASKING YOU TO HAVE FAITH IN HIM WHILE HE MAKES IT SOUND LIKE YOU ARE DENYING YOUR FAITH IN GOD.  APPLES AND ORANGES...

Well, I think you get the point.  I promise that if the real Jesus really really returns on Pentecost of this year and you really really are the only true church and Ron was truly truly God's faithful witness of two, I will write a humble letter off apology and recognition of this as being so.  I'll renounce my own insights over the years and sit quietly in church and never never want to be a deacon, elder or minister ever I promise.  I'll just give what I have not got, or should not give and call it even.

Well, I guess this is the Forrest Gump moment.   And that's all I want to say about that.....

 
Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

The Church of God Wikipedia Propaganda Machine

Silenced has a call to action in regards to the mountains of erroneous material that fills up many Wikipedia entries that pertain to the hundreds of Churches of God and Armstrongism.  Many have fairly accurate information in them, while others look like they have been written by the PR officers of the various splinter cults.  The biggest offenders are (which should not be a huge shock):

Radio Church of God/Worldwide Church of God


United Church of God




Philadelphia Church of God


Living Church of God


Terry Ratzmann


Roderick C. Meredith
Silenced writes:: Wow. Just…wow. Did he write this himself?


This includes one that is missing and SHOULD be written: Ron Weinland

Armstrongism has always done a white wash on its self over the decades.  In its eyes it has done no wrong, committed no evil, and has been the most glorious resurrection of the True Church in 1,900 years. The truth is, in many cases, that the Church of God has blatantly lied about it's history.  It has attempted to cover up murders, suicides, huge legal challenges, rapes, wife swapping, child molestations, stalkings,  embezzlement and more.  If you can name an evil present in the world it most likely can be found existing in Armstrongism.  One person some years ago even accused he Church of genocide with is vile medical prohibitions.  How many thousands have died over the decades because of church leaders deliberately banning medical intervention? 

It's time these liars be held accountable on Wikipedia!

So if any of you want to join the Wiki Truth Squad contact Silenced for more information

Happy 26th!

Dennis On: ""For God So Loved the World...." A very sincere question to consider

"For God So Loved the World...."

A very sincere question to consider

I would like to seriously and sincerely reopen a question I have had for years about the teaching that God gave his only son, Jesus, as a sacrifice for us.  I believe this audience would be able to draw on scores of scriptures to this effect so I will not reproduce them here.  

What I would like to ask, and sincerely so, is "In what way is Jesus death a real death and in what way did God give his son?"

I know our initial reaction is "on the cross" or "he turned his back on Jesus and abandoned him at death," or "Jesus gave his life for us..."  etc.  But in what way? From my perspective, it was not in anyway I can identify with as a human and the "loss" God suffered is not like any loss I have seen in the faces of parents who lost real children in death.

My personal problem with the concept is that from all accounts, well most, Jesus knew he would die but also that he would return better than ever in a mere three days and not in the flesh, but back at the right hand of God.  In what way is that a sacrifice?  Every sacrifice that died in the entire Bible stayed dead.  Jesus merely appears as a sacrifice but in a way that is not really like all the so called '"types."  Jesus death was not like human death.  It was almost like a play that has a really good ending once we get to the end.  It seems more like going through the motions but not really the emotions.

Now granted, it is no fun to die at a young age, but hundreds of thousands and millions have done it before and since Jesus.  But they are all dead and gone.  I can't imagine any grief lasting long if the families and friends of those who have died would have had to wait a mere three days to get them back better than ever. I can't even imagine any of those who died being all that upset if the knew, as Jesus and God evidently did that they would be back shortly better than ever.  That's not dying.  That's stepping out for a bit and coming right back.  That is not what humans call death nor parents who have lost a child, a tragedy that eats their soul up for the rest of their lives. 

God the Father knew, evidently, what his plan was and could bring his "only begotten son that he gave  back quickly.  I can't do that.  No parent of any children I have buried can do that .  How can this be said to be the most amazing parental sacrifice in the history of the world?  I can see if  the figure of Jesus STAYED DEAD and was not himself ever to be part of the coming Kingdom.  Now that would be a sacrifice on the part of both Jesus and God the Father.  But this mere "weekend inconvenience," seems to fall far short of that?  I ask sincerely for an answer.

In what way would God have agonized over Jesus death if it was merely a short weekend event from which God would easily recover the life of his son?

In what way is this the most amazing sacrifice of all time?  (Thousands of humans have been crucified, skinned alive , boiled alive and burned to death which would seem far more hideous than any six hour death on a cross.)  I have my doubts about Jesus being "marred above any other," as well but will leave that for another time. Death on the cross is generally a days long event where no burial is afforded the criminal and the body is left to fall off the cross to be eaten by dogs.  Jesus had the burial of a King with little of the humiliation that would normally accompany such events.  I'm sure many would have said in his day that "Jesus got off easy. He died really quickly."  

I have recalled how this question came to me when a client told me she lost her only child in an accident.  After telling me how little help her church had been trying to encourage her with, "God won't give you more than you can bare," "at least you have other children," (She didn't) or "At least you will see her again in heaven," the Pastor himself made the mistake of his theological career.  He told her that "well, God lost his only child too."  

"Uh oh.." I remember thinking.  He sure stepped into that.  I asked what she said and she assured me that she screamed "NO!" at the minister and then said,  "Jesus seems to have known he would die and come back in three days. God knew He was going to resurrect him in a mere three days better than ever.  My daughter is still dead!  A real sacrifice should stay dead.  Jesus death was merely a weekend inconvenience for both Jesus and His Father."

Ugh....I just listened and thought that she , in her grief and clarity, had hit on something so deeply disturbing to me that I later wrote about it.  I asked what the minister said and she said he just looked at her and said NOTHING.  Probably the best think he could have done under the circumstances.

It is a sincere observation and it has raised a deeply troubling but sincere question in myself since then.  

So in sincerity I ask,  In what way did God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son....?  How was it the most amazing sacrifice of all time?  Should not a real sacrifice stay dead?  And why would Jesus actual death which quickly was remedied by a better than ever resurrection be considered some kind of substitution for ours?

I simply have no answer for this observation and if I were still a minister and this was thrown in my face while someone was grieving the real loss of a child, would have nothing to say but,  "that's a good question.  I don't know."

 
Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

Dale Schurter: The Master of Flip Flopping (Updated)

A reader commented on the  "The Dale Schurter Propaganda/Resignation Letter":

We had him for a pastor for awhile in UCG. Dale flip flops in his beliefs in unbelievable rapid fashion. In this letter he uses the names God and Jesus Christ. Last I knew in UCG he was using the " Sacred Names"....and admonishing UCG members they should be doing the same (to the point of members getting very upset with him). He had come to believe that using the names God and Jesus Christ was very evil. Now it seems he is using them quite frequently.

Also, the last I knew, Dale believed in keeping the new moons. And had some very different ideas than HWA about what will happen when Christ returns....like the bride will go to heaven (the sea of glass) and live there for awhile...I forget all the details, but it was radically different from what HWA taught.

He also claimed to know (via Ron Wyatt propaganda) to know where the Ark of the Covenant was (in a cave under Golgotha with Christ's blood on it), not to mention, where Noah's ark was, Sodom and Gomorrah (he even brought some sulfur smelling rock to church and in his sermon invited people to come up later to smell it...claiming it was authentic rock from Sodom & Gomorrah). Plus the true crossing of the Red Sea site by the Israelites, plus more. And also, the Sabbath doesn't begin and end at sunset...it begins before sunset (unspecified time) and ends after sunset (again unspecified time).

Oh, I could go on and on....oh yes, he also claimed to believe that members should have input and that he believed in a team effort...not the old top down stuff.

So now fast forward just 6 years or so and now he is claiming to believe in everything that HWA taught. RCG has it all just right and is God's only true church on earth. Yet it was UCG that tolerated Dale's "different" beliefs, and didn't boot him out on his behind.

So my question is: has Dale now changed his beliefs back to what HWA taught (has Dale now gotten "back on track"?) or does he still hold to some of the beliefs he was teaching in UCG (one week instead of sermon we had to watch a Ron Wyatt tape)? If he has reversed a lot of what he was teaching....I guess he will be OK in RCG. If he hasn't...and is "just pretending" to put a good face on to the Packman...then trouble is ahead for Dale because I do not think RCG will tolerate his beliefs for long...after they finish using him as a propaganda tool.

Added 1/15/12    

According to Dave, the earth is millions of years old. According to Dale its 6000.      Is the Earth 6,000 Years Old?

So "Mr. Dinosaurs lived with man" is already at odds with his new guru.

Dennis On: "Getting Back On Track"

"...among other things, and some have again committed to “get back on track.”

 

Not Again!

 

 

"Maybe we should reconsider this route?"

 

If we have heard it once, we have heard it a thousand times.  "God has put his work back on track!"   It used to be "we are in the gun lap," but evidently there were so many gun laps, they all ran out of bullets. 

 

What did that mean?

 

Back in the day it always meant that HWA had been spending so much time flying around the world preaching the Non-Gospel of the Soon But Not Real Soon Kingdom of God to world leaders , that when he got back for a few days, he found out the mice had been playing. 

 

Mouse play could have been anything to a drop in income while he was gone to publishing an article or a PT cover that was less than pleasing and for sure was done without his permission.  Often times he probably had given permission but simply forgot.  And so after the appropriate sermon blasting everyone for "not getting it,"  the Church was put back on track and the appropriate member was sent out declaring it to be so. 

 

The Church got put back on track in 1968, 69, 70 ,71, 72,73,74,75,76,77,78----all way up to 1986 when it derailed again because the Engineer had died while the train, now on another right track was speeding ahead throttle up knowing that his end was near and unwilling to admit it or ask someone to take his place.  One of the conductors had spent a lifetime telling all the passengers that the Engineer could not die and would live until the train pulled into the station, but that was just rail road talk. 

 

Pretty quickly though, a new Engineer put himself as far as we can tell into the cab as all the conductors once again put the train back on the tracks.  Or at least back on tracks because these were different tracks than previous tracks.  Very often in the past, the impression was given that the train was always put back on the same right tracks as God and Jesus, I mean Christ, would have done if they were actually here helping with the heavy lifting.  But often, while close, it was at best a parallel track yet a little more right of center than the last.  Derailments were generally blamed on falling off the tracks on the left side. 

 

At any rate, it did not take long to see that the new Engineer, a Mr. Weaver, was unlike any Engineer WCG had ever had.  These can't be the same tracks as all the others we suspected.  He really had little training as an Engineer as far as one could tell and was prone, as was the original WCG Engineer towards nepotism putting close relatives and friends in charge of the train, the station , the conductors and all the passengers who wanted to be on the train on the right track.  I think they even took over concessions as far as I can tell. 

 

However, it was not long before it was obvious this Engineer was on Jesus Drugs and the train plowed into a miracle caused by Jesus, who was quite different from the Christ of WCG.  Well they said it was a miracle, but I say it was one of those abutments that announce this track is going no where and one has reached the end of the line.  I think you are supposed to stop when you see that coming up, or even be smart enough to know the route being taken actually ends up ahead and slowing down would be in order. Not being there in the first place would be even better.  But alas, no one on the train seemed to understand this or at least assumed the Engineer would know this and stop in time.  Wishful thinking evidently. 

 

When the train, Engineered by Mr. Weaver hit the end of the line, ugh...bodies everywhere.  The momentum took the wreckage clear into the little town of Evangelical where it burst into the flames of the Holy Spirit.  Conductors and passengers alike, who survived crawled out and off to join new railroads and work on safer and more predictable trains.  Some even started their own railroads and put those trains back on the right tracks all over again. 

 

It wasn't long before we could see dozens and then hundreds of separate trains each with their own unique passengers, crews and Engineers lined up, one behind the other, yet all on the same "right track."  What a site.  Have you ever seen a train behind another one on the same track try to pass the one ahead of it?  Not pretty and certainly not easy!   I guess when you are in a line anyone of them can claim to be at the head of the line and the one ahead is really at the end of the line, it's just that you caught up with it.

 

Pretty soon there were hundreds of right tracks all part of the one true railroad and lead by the one true Engineer barreling down the right track.  New stations sprang up all over the country and then the world, all claiming to be the true and right railroad and back on the true and right tracks.  Problem is, they all forbid their passengers from ever riding or even reading the brochures of the other trains on the right tracks and surely never even thinking of riding on their same but different true but false railroads not driven by God's chosen Engineer.  

 

Soon we had competing one true railroads all on track.  There were the PCG, RCG, LCG, UCG , GCI, and dozens more railroads, all back on the same right track yet denying that each other really were.  We had "That Engineer," "And yes brethren, I am an Engineer," and even "We are the Two Engineers," of all things.  I was concerned that two engineers on the same train would cause conflicts, but was relieved to see that the one engineer never spoke and really didn't know how to run a train on the right track anyway.  Anyway, we also have, "Presiding Engineers," and "Engineers for life. " He runs the GCI line but doesn't seem to have much of a route. 

 

I tell you, all these trains back on the same right track makes me nervous.  Sometimes conductors from one true train on track jumps track and lands on the same right track again but different.  I can't figure that one out.  They say the last true right track train was true but is now less true and on a track but maybe not THE track.  I don't know.  Some say that some railroads pay conductors better than others and, of course, that is the real reason for jumping trains. 

 

Anyway, sometimes it crosses my mind that all these Engineers blowing their own whistles and stoking their own fires really aren't back on the right track after all.  I think they are on a track, but the right one?....not sure.  Well, pretty sure they aren't actually.  No, positive!  I think you can put a train back on the same WRONG track and just think you are on the right one....until you see that bumper thing at the end of a dead end staring you in the face and you going way too fast to slow down, much less stop and avoid yet another train wreck with casualties.

 

Personally,  I don't ride trains anymore because I am leery of the tracks.  None of these companies seem to do much maintenance or educate their conductors on how to take care of the passengers.  You know, "Jones pays the freight, give Jones what he wants,' as the old original Engineer used to say.  Shoot, their engineers haven't even gone to a real engineer school it turns out nor have they learned the many nuances of engineering.  They know nothing of the origins of real railroads or what constitutes right tracks much less how to get back on them when you drive recklessly and plow into reality.  Sometimes I think they even have the wrong book or at least read the directions half drunk.  Maybe they just filter out the stuff that they don't understand and make what they think they do mean more than it does. 

 

Anyway, once again, a conductor on one of the older new true railroads has jumped on to and even newer and truer one, even before the other once crashes.  He's sending passengers on all sorts of sorta true railroads and trains new schedules and wants to meet them at the station, the true station anytime they have time.  We'll see.

 

But, while the claim is made that once again, the true train has now been put back on the true tracks and the most true conductor and Engineer will meet you at track 29,  I have my doubts.  I have never understood how the passengers that survive can crawl from one wreck after the other and still sit on the latest train as if there never was a wreck or OK there was, but God put me on this track and damn it, I'm riding this train into glory!  Passengers are the biggest enigma to me.  They buy a ticket.  Step over the bodies, find a new train and let any glib talking, railroad reading , Engineer come lately take them along for the ride on tracks that have already proved less than safe and reliable.  Go figure.

 

Oh well.  Pardon me boys, is that the cat who ate your new shoes?  Ok, sorry, couldn't resist.  Personally I think you can be put back on the wrong tracks and never even suspect it the whole time you are on the train going nowhere.

 

 

 

Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

 

Dave Pack: "Freedom of the Press Is Not God's Way"

In looking through Pack's screed on being persecuted by the unjust he has this little tid-bit about the Internet and the press which now hold him accountable for his lies.

The arrival of the Internet, coupled with a long-time American institution, has forever changed communication and the “rules” within the Church of God. Let me explain.

Together, these changed everything. When disruptions now occur in the Church, everybody has a “story” to tell. The Internet provides them with a vehicle to do this. And dirtmongers are only too eager to help them. When Daniel said, “knowledge shall be increased” in the end time, he could not have remotely understood how the computer would play such a large role in this.

Freedom of the Press

Compounding the problem, America and other countries practice the principle of “freedom of the press.” While this has never been God’s way, it is certainly the American and modern way. The American Bill of Rights ensures that the flow of “information”—good or bad, right or wrong—can never stop. Therefore, Americans (and citizens of nearly every Western nation) consider access to information not just a privilege but a right. They could not imagine life without all of the various written materials that are made available through this freedom—and the Freedom of Information Act has allowed them to access vast additional amounts of once inaccessible material!

The attitude that people are entitled to complete “openness” from all institutions of government has been absorbed into the splinters. An expectation has developed that visiting certain websites, or reading “church culture” newspapers, is how to get the real story. Now, “investigative reporters” take it upon themselves to “just report the news” happening in the splinters. They view themselves as neutral or acting on God’s behalf, while distributing every conceivable kind of garbage, filth, muck, sewage, dirt and trash landing on their desks!

Obviously, these “journalists” are not dirtmongers in their own eyes. They see themselves as merely performing an “information service.” But they function much like the National Enquirer, The Star or other supermarket tabloids, so popular today. The difference is that they do this on behalf of the many splinters, assuring themselves that God is pleased with their efforts. Actually, these “journalists” directly serve the “god of this world,” who loves gossip, talebearing, slander, bad news, discord, division and every other form of human disagreement. While God hates these things, the devil and human nature feast on them. But try to tell them God hates what they are doing.

Additionally, most of these “information services” link their websites and newspapers. One “service” may specialize in muck, while another specializes in dirt. Still another in sewage, while yet another features trash and garbage. But since they all “cross-pollinate,” one need only stumble onto one source to find a veritable treasure trove of every vile thing under the sun—instantly available!

You must come to see that, in a host of ways, these sources have rejected Christ’s most basic teachings, and have departed from even the fringes of marginal true Christianity. (From Should Accusers Be Answered?)

The only people I know on the fringe are the legalistic splinter cults of Armstrongism who promote worthless legalistic mumbo-jumbo that enslaves.  They follow a weak, impotent little god who is powerless.