Dennis muses on..."Please Apostle Pack...Please Take Me Back!" 35 Irrefutable Ways to Attract a Brain Dead Ministry

Dennis muses on..... 

"Please Apostle Pack...Please Take Me Back!"

35 Irrefutable Ways to Attract a Brain Dead Ministry 

An Open Letter To All Splinter Ministers

Special Announcement #22 July 2013

By Dave Pack 

Important Questionnaire

A crucial series of questions present themselves before every shepherd of any rank. As you read, think hard—very, very hard!—about your original calling to serve in one or more offices under the sure guidance and direction of Christ as Head of His Church. Ask yourself each difficult question today’s circumstances require you to answer. Do not permit yourself to look away from hard realities now confronting all of God’s ­people.

In every age of His Church, Christ’s sheep have needed shepherds. Those with special leadership training and experience from the past will be held accountable in a greater way than all others (Jms. 3:1-2). Dereliction of duty by those “to whom much was given” will mean that “much will be required” of them some day (Luke 12:48). Take a deep breath and think of yourself standing before the “judgment seat” of Christ (II Cor. 5:10). You will be FORCED to give answers to HIM then if you are unwilling to demand them of YOURSELF ­now.

The millions constituting the physical remnant of modern Israel returning from captivity are foretold to come “weeping and loathing themselves” for having rejected God’s Way (Jer. 50:4-5; Ezek. 6:8-9). What about the spiritual remnant, who once knew that Way, but largely left it? Will/does this describe you? Read the above verses, and then read the following questions slowly, carefully and prayerfully. They are the biggest way that the ministry should “consider their ways.” Consider writing out the answers:

(1) Retirement—Mr. Armstrong taught that retirement is not an option for a true minister.

• Did you retire? If so, when, and why did you think yourself an exception?

(2) Non-Career—Mr. Armstrong taught that “going non-career” is not an option for a true minister.

• Did you do this? If so, why did you think yourself an exception?

(3) Established Doctrine and Tradition

• In what doctrines or traditions do you believe Mr. Armstrong “got it wrong”? (Include all areas—bespecific.)

(4) Did you actively resist false doctrine in your ministry?—or give safe sermons where you disagreed? (Be specific.)

• During the liberal years of the 1970s?
• In the WCG in the late 1980s and early 90s?
• In your splinter or splinters?

(5) On each doctrine where you came to agree with God’s enemies—either Joe Tkach, those who assisted his destruction or your splinter leader—why did you agree?

(6) Why should you still be considered for the ministry in God’s Church?

• Why should God’s flock ever again be entrusted to your care?
• Are you prepared to re-win brethren’s trust, including brethren now here whom you will likely also pastor? What about re-winning the trust of Headquarters?

(7) Did you actively pursue where God’s Truth, Church, Work, College and Government were found?

• If not, why not? Be specific.
• If so, how hard? Be specific.

(8) Have you read or viewed any of our Splinter Explanation Packet material?

• What items? Ÿ Did you at any time hear my “30 Reasons” sermons of 1993 and 1994? (Parts 1, 2 or 3?)

(9) Do you now believe again that Christ works solely through one unified organization?

(10) In light of government(s) you followed, how do you see God’s government today?

(11) Have you returned to believing that Mr. Armstrong was the final Zerubbabel?

(12) Have you returned to believing that truth only enters the Church through apostles as Mr. Armstrong said so often?

(13) Do you believe I Corinthians 12:18 applies to you with no qualifications added?

(14) Do you believe there can be exceptions to I Corinthians 1:10 and 13—regarding members or ministers in the Church?

(15) Are you willing to temporarily or permanently become an associate pastor?

(16) Are you willing to be excluded from the ministry until you requalify?

(17) Are you familiar with the new teachings that God has added to His Church on top of what Mr. Armstrong taught?

• Which ones?—and do you agree?

(18) If your ordination(s) is(are) invalid, are you interested in being re-trained for Christ’s true ministry?

(19) Do you believe ministers should be able to voice opinions to others about:

• Where Headquarters is “wrong”?
• What Mr. Armstrong taught/said/did “wrong”?
• What Mr. Pack teaches/says/does “wrong”?
• Where your boss is “wrong” or harsh, etc.?
• Where you disagree doctrinally?

(20) Do you consider yourself as having been (rate yourself from 5 being best to 0 being worst):

• Weak
• Cowardly
• Slothful
• Covetous
• Confused
• Compromising
• Foolish
• Political (And did you ever “run for office” in a splinter?)
• Heretical
• Deceitful
• Easily deceived
• Betrayed your calling

(21) Why did you lose the ability to “discern good from evil” (Heb. 5:13-14)?—and for so long?

(22) What do you consider to be your ministerial rank?

Ÿ Evangelist Ÿ Pastor Ÿ Preaching Elder Ÿ Local Elder Ÿ Local Church Elder Ÿ “Elder” Ÿ Ministerial Assistant

(23) Are you prepared to dedicate the rest of your life to serving God’s flock and fixing completely the horrific mess you helped cause in so many lives?

(24) In light of how you once saw Mr. Armstrong, do you still recognize the fruits of a true apostle when you see one?

• If you say yes, why did you follow Joe Tkach until he destroyed everything?

(25) Describe your spiritual condition today. (Also, rate your temperature from 0-10, with 10 the highest.)

(26) What 5 biggest lessons did you learn from and since the apostasy? (In order of importance.)

(27) How many times did you fast for 24 hours (or more) before answering these questions?

(28) How many times have you prayed over Psalm 51 on your knees?

(29) Having now long abandoned many doctrines you said you would never leave, how would you convince Headquarters that this time you “mean it” if you intend to now “hold fast” (Rev. 3:11)?

(30) What have been your pastoral actions during the troubles of recent weeks and months?

(31) Are you prepared to spend a full year (or more) catching up with all you must unlearn, relearn, and learnnew?

(32) What personal responsibility do you feel for the deplorable condition into which God’s people have sunk?

(33) How would you prove that you are still Spirit-led?—or were ever Spirit-led?

(34) What date did you leave the WCG, and why did you remain beyond May 1995, if this is the case?

(35) What did you do after reading the article “God’s People Back Together—SOON!”?

In due course, you will be asked to fill out a questionnaire that looks very similar to this list.

*No answers that are blank, “I’m not sure” or short responses will then be permitted.

*All wives should answer the questions, including every point applicable. (Some are obviously to be skipped.)

*Aware of recent history, and the lies and deceit of so many men and leaders, DO NOT LIE TO YOURSELF!

*You are encouraged not to discuss or in any way share your answers with anyone other than God and your spouse.

Your Leaders

If you want your ministry to continue, think carefully about the men you currently support. To pooh-pooh this announcement is to risk your calling. Think it through. The leaders of your organization cannot give you eternal life. They will soon be unable to even continue your employment as a pastor or associate pastor. I will reference in the final two announcements how God will deal with certain leaders. As we leave Haggai for other books and passages, the prophecy is about to grow MUCH more serious.

Be careful you do not write me off as another “prophecy kook.” I am not a prophet and have never claimed to be. The fruits of my office show it to be different. With the passing of years, most ministers have grown confused about even some of the very biggest points of prophecy. Almost all have grown even worse with the details. Be careful you do not quickly dismiss a complex prophecy, one you are no longer equipped to readilygrasp. Just think about how you probably could not even remember that Mr. Armstrong was the Zerubbabel of Haggai and Zechariah 4—never mind WHAT THIS MEANT.

Some or many ministers may be torn over these announcements, wondering if I could be right. Haggai is a book in your Bible! His prophecy WILL soon come to pass. No other explanation of it fits—and none but Gerald Flurry is even offering an explanation. (When has that man gotten ANYTHING about prophecy right?)

Your leaders once claimed to be searching for God’s servant. One was sent! Yet humanly I am no more special than any of you. God’s pattern of government starts with ONE LEADER. You once believed this. You also once professed to know an apostle when you saw one—meaning by the fruits. Just like you did not ask to become a minister of Jesus Christ, I did not ask for my responsibilities. Who would? But God’s flock is before us, along with the greatest Work the world has ever seen.

Will you rise to the challenge?

You may soon find yourself pastoring larger or much larger numbers of brethren after reunification. God’s Church will again enjoy more and larger congregations around the world. This means greater service and greater reward—for you and those you serve. Do not jeopardize this!

Dave Pack Can't Afford To Pay His Ministers

The Leadership Chart
for the
Restored Church of God

Money has always been an issue in the Church of God.  There never seemed to be enough.  Leaders were constantly begging or guilt-tripping the members into sending in all they had to keep the "work" going and the leadership in their high lifestyles.  This is the case for Dave Pack, isolated on his Wadsworth compound as membership and income dwindle down, as he struggles to make payroll.

After producing the most superfantabulous web site the world has ever seen, Pack next dumped millions of dollar into building a physical plant that is unmatched in the entire world or at least in Ohio.  Nothing compares, nothing is as magnificent or is as beautiful as the Wadsworth compound that sits between a gas fume belching freeway and a huge big box cement wasteland.

All of that beauty, the mismanagement of money, and dwindling tithe base is sinking Dave's awesome dreams.  Pack is struggling to pay the few remaining ministers he has. Only those in the upper echelons, HQ employees or are intermarried into the cult leadership families are getting full salary.  The further down the hierarchy you are the less money you make, if at all,

If Dave Pack would learn to keep his narcissistic mouth shut and stop making such exaggerated claims he might be able to retain his members.  Nearly Jailed Bob Elisha Elijah Amos Thiel should take the warning to heart.

Exit and Support  has this letter up:

May 23, 2016
Dave Pack is pressed for money, as he still is not paying lower ministers for their full time work. At most, he is paying half pay. Many ministers are working for no pay. I do know that he has lost a big chunk of members by now claiming to be the "Elijah." Anyone, who takes time to check out HWA, especially if they followed him, just won't buy it. --Impacted by RCG

Living Church of God: A Series Of Unfortunate Events

Living Church of God has had a rough patch lately with one mishap after another.  While this has been a long term problem in the LCG, it has been pronounced over the last few weeks, leading many to ponder whether God is displeased with the church and its leaders.

An LCG  source reports:

Two Sabbaths ago, Rand Milach (Kansas City pastor and member of the COE) passed out during his sermon as if he were being struck down. That same Sabbath Mrs. Byersdorfer, wife of another LCG minister fell at Sabbath services and fractured her hip. Last Sabbath, Bruce Tyler (head of LCG's work in Europe, Australia and Asia) had a major stroke and is not expected to recover. (Tyler has since died) Then a couple of days ago Scott Winnail (son of Doug Winnail, LCG headquarters minister) fell and broke one of his legs in 3 places. All of this on top of LCG member from Paris dying on her flight to Egypt.

Mishaps happen every day in life, but when one thing after another happens in church leadership members start taking notice.  Many are asking, "How could God be letting this happens to his "True Church?" Many members know first hand how dysfunctional the church has become over the last few years as Rod Meredith ages and how he has lost the capacity to make sound leadership decisions.

This dissatisfaction has carried over into the ministry and church leadership too. In the past the ministry got up at the following Sabbath service after the COE meetings and reported on the "best COE meeting ever" and that the "COE has never been more unified." That has not been the case this time around.  One individual remarked that the COE was a compete mess.   One COE member said that the the COE was NOT unified and another said that there were a lot of "issues" right now.

The COE meeting that took place in Charlotte a couple of weeks ago was a total disaster as tensions mount over doctrinal changes and budget cuts due to LCG's failing income. Normally after a COE meeting, the ministers talk about how unified and wonderful everything was. This time, there were no comments from the pulpit. 

Things have become so dysfunctional that members and ministers are leaving LCG congregations.  There have been several ministers of late that have left LCG and taken their members with them.  This has been confirmed by more than one person.  The Charlotte Boy's are keeping a tight lid on this.  They are concerned that if word leaked out about these defections that it would cause more division in the lay membership.  Roland Lequoc's defection is just the tip of the iceberg.

The disunity of the ministry and membership of the LCG is having huge ramifications right now.  Reports of coming doctrinal changes, possible church mergers, the appointment of rules enforcer extraordinaire as Meredith's successor, issues with financial abuse and waste in the Charlotte offices, the purchase of new luxury homes for the useless Living Church of God "university", and Rod Meredith's rapid mental/physical health decline, are creating a coming hurricane of upheaval.

Persecuted Bob Elijah Elisha Amos Thiel "Nearly" Jailed

Jailed French Adventists 1917

Its so comforting to know that God's most important Church of God leader in these last days was nearly jailed for his refusal to work on Saturdays.   Elijah Amos Thiel has added this little tidbit to his roster of "Why I Am The Most Logical Choice To Be A Church of God Leader EVVVVVVER" profiles.

We have double blessings, double anointing, double dreams, various prophet monikers, and other delusional self describing fantasies.  Now we can add "Nearly Jailed" to the list.

I personally was nearly jailed (while working for the government) and threatened with job loss throughout my earlier careers, because I kept the Sabbath.  As it turned out I was not jailed nor fired, but there still is a risk for many.

"Nearly" Jailed Bob Elisha Elijah Amos Thiel is reacting to an article published in COG7's magazine Bible Advocate on  Keeping the Sabbath and Keeping Your Job

What title is left for Nearly Jailed Elisha Elijah Amos Thiel to take?  One of the two witnesses? Since he claims to be a god in training he might as wells add "God" to his title.

Mark Armstrong Weekly Melt Down...You Won't Find Him Riding In A Gay Parade!

Mark Armstrong is following in his daddy and grand-daddy's shoes.  The world is going to hell in a hand basket and its his duty to wake every one up.

The entire country's falling apart and he's not able to say the things he wants to say.

If you don't despise the authors of our Constitution; hate our national history; root for the eradication of our traditions; support an unlimited and unlawful influx of foreigners from central America, the Middle East and northern Africa; agree with the socialist mandate of Obamacare; believe in man-made global warming and unlimited spending on “green energy”; support the "right" to same-sex homo-mony; and agree with whatever the first black president says or does, then you're a bigot, racist homo-phobe. This stance of "liberal progressivism" has been pretty clear for some years now, and has been one of the subjects covered in numerous monthly letters, weekly updates and articles.

Before Mark spouts his nonsense about racism and bigotry, he had better examine his own worthless thoughts and imaginations and especially those of his daddy that he just cannot ever seem to imitate.

This organization was founded by Garner Ted Armstrong to educate, to witness and warn our peoples of the curses for having turned away from God and His laws; if you're waiting for us to hop aboard the anti-American bandwagon and ride down Broadway in the "gay" parade, it may come as a surprise, but you've come to the wrong place.

A Child Speaks: By Former COG Minister

A Child Speaks by John O

Here is an excerpt from a blog entry on The Painful Truth site by John O (a former WCG minister).  It is typical of what went on in many families in the Church of God.  Remember, this is the church with all "the truth once restored."

April 20th. Two men arrived at our house this evening. I don’t like them. They’re not happy people like we remember mom and dad once were. They are stern and cold. These men are not loving. They tell mom and dad to send us to our rooms. Mom and dad obey and then talk to these men alone for about an hour.

April 25th. It’s a Saturday and Becky and I wanted to go play today, but dad said no. Mom said to go get dressed in our best clothes because we were going to a meeting that was ordered by God. We go to the meeting and listen to some men yelling at us. We’re no good, they say, we’re sinners and need to go to God to get forgiven. They alone will tell us how. I’d rather be playing. What’s tithing?

May 16th. Dad said that we’re taking these services of God too lightly. We’re old enough, he said, to listen to the speakers who are anointed of God. We can finally learn something from these men about how evil our lives had been, and how we are now learning not to be pagans. What is an apostle?

September 12th. Tonight we listened upstairs as dad told mom that their bills were getting too high. He said that tithing and offerings came first, but after all that was paid, there was little left for anything else except food. He said he owed a month’s mortgage on the house. He’s going to sell mom’s car so he can continue to tithe.

September 25th. We were sent to bed at seven o’clock at exactly the time when those two ministers came to the front door. I still don’t like them. Becky and I listened, as always, and we heard a lot of yelling from the men. Dad answered a couple of times quietly and mom said nothing. They needed his finance statement, they said, with a list of all the money he spent every week. Then they said that they would show dad and mom how to tithe properly. What does “carnal” mean?

October 15th. Today a woman, called a realtor, came to our home and looked around. We heard dad tell mom that the only way we could reconcile with God is to sell the house, and with the little profit remaining, send in that money to church headquarters to pay for back tithes owing. We are going to lose our home. I don’t think I like this God.

December 13th. We’ve now started to live in a small, cheap apartment. It’s not all that clean. I don’t like our neighbors because they’re always picking fights with us. Becky and I share a bedroom. Mom and dad are fighting. Becky is crying. I am hurting.

Read the entire story here:  A Child Speaks

Patriarchy in UCG Not Happy With Women Writing Biblically Based Articles

UCG has been letting women write articles for blogs and their main web site for some time now.  Some men in the church have been highly offended with this over the years and now it has reached a boiling point. How dare women write articles based upon bible teachings!  Men are only allowed to do that!

Chairman Webber welcomed those that joined the gallery for this discussion. He welcomed the media department and the women who came in to hear this session. Mr. Webber mentioned concerns had been raised in the Media and Communications Committee (MCC) regarding the role of women writers dealing with certain biblical subjects. His desire with the Council’s approval was to keep this in open session. 

Rex Sexton led the discussion as the chairman of the (MCC). There have been articles written by women in our official UCG publications (Beyond Today and United News) and that have appeared in our blogs (unofficial) on specific subjects that have been raised as whether being appropriate for women to address. The question was asked if there were any written policies for what kind of articles can be written. Currently there are no specific policies written up. One of the Council’s responsibilities is to have oversight and write policies when questions and needs arise. Input was already received from the media department, and Mr. Sexton thanked them for it.

Its a fact that there are many women in the Church of God who are better educated and understand scripture than many of the men.  This does not sit well with some of the men who feel that no woman should ever tell them what to believe.

Peter Eddington, operation manager of Media and Communications Services, mentioned the August 1999 Council report under the media section that was discussed by the Council. It was a non-issue for there to be women writers. Mr. Sexton asked if the substance of the content had changed over the years since then. Mr. Eddington said since 1999 we now have more women writers, and one of the reasons is because the media department wants more ways to relate women to women in our writings.

Robin Webber then enters the fray:

Chairman Webber desired to establish focus of what was being discussed. We are discussing the role of women in media, so we are looking at what might women do with our understanding of Scripture. We are not talking about women ministers or preachers or getting up now to give messages in services. We understand there is a structure in the Church that has been recognized through the ages, so we are not going there. We all agree with that. Now we are dealing with comments by Paul about women being silent in the Church. How does that apply to teaching through writing? Culture needs to responsibly move forward, and we have to look at the context of the Scriptures. What was the apostle Paul addressing, and why was he saying it? If we use our heads and hearts and trust the administration with monitoring, the one article that came to our attention on repentance was dealing with the heart and the approach. It wasn’t dynamically preaching to the world to repent. We need to use wisdom. He was concerned that we need to take our time with this. A year or two ago we had a policy on the role of women in the Church that was not complete in tone and emphasis, so we withdrew that paper. We need to be very careful about the policies we might possibly create.

Don Ward then weighs in with at lest a slightly more enlightened point of view

Don Ward advised that we be circumspect with what commentaries might be used and their rendering interpretations towards explaining the culture of Paul’s day. He advised some interpretations convey that Paul didn’t really mean what he said because of the culture of that particular time. We see the culture has shifted as a result of the Industrial Revolution and many other things that have come to pass. Dr. Ward does not see the Word of God shifting with the culture. Dr. Ward read from 1 Timothy:2:11-12 (KJV). The Bible does give clear instruction why Paul wrote that, and it wasn’t based on the culture of the day. The question is not if they can teach. Women teach in Sabbath school. Titus 2 gives clear instruction that the older women are to instruct the younger women. 

Mr. Bradford raised the questions we need to be asking ourselves are: 1) What are the unique reasons that women do not preach at church and, 2) Do the same principles apply in writing corrective articles? 

Then to backpedal and blame the woman who wrote the article, Rainer Salomaa  says it could have all "been a mistake or poorly written", all of which ignores the fact that a MAN approved the article to be printed in the first place.

Rainer Salomaa was asked if he had any comments. Mr. Salomaa said nothing really jumps out at him that has been a problem. Regarding the article in question there shouldn’t be hours and hours of time put into policy for one article. The article could have just been a mistake. It could have been stated better perhaps. He would just trust those in that position to monitor it. He’s not sure there needs to be a Council-driven policy. He then asked if they could get the input from some of the women in the audience. Robin Webber agreed that he was going to do that. He asked for a few comments from the women or media department in the audience. 

Then Beverly Kubik dared to rock the boat and asked some pointed questions:

Beverly Kubik asked if there was a well done study paper on the verses brought up today about women not speaking at church, because if you take these verses literally then women have to put gags in their mouth when they enter the building. She asked if there was a study paper and said we should have that when addressing this topic. Robin Webber agreed that there are many commentaries on this, and they could be put together. Mrs. Kubik said she would like to see an unbiased study into those scriptures. 

She went on to comment that we encourage discussion of the sermon after service and, if we take those verses literally then women can’t talk about the sermon after services. She didn’t feel that interpretation of those verses make sense with the context of rest of the entire Bible. When Christ came He showed more respect to women than had been in the culture prior to that. She asked why that was. She asked why some women are called “prominent women.” Why were they prominent, and what were they doing in the churches there? She feels we are so fearful of anything that comes near preaching for women, yet we have no problem with women singing scriptural words. She would like to understand why these lines are being drawn, and she wants to know what is right or isn’t right. She isn’t trying to promote any idea over another. 

It will be interesting to see if the men can do what is right.  But this is the UCG after all.

You can read the entire March 2016 report here.