When you read the United Church of God web site and the members updates you will never see a more unified Church of God in existence.
We value the current period of peace in the Church and need to constantly remind ourselves it is only in this environment we can have of the growth and forward movement we all desire United News May/June
Viktor Kubik wrote May 5: “Several of our home office ministers visited local congregations. We have received several reports about how encouraging this has been to the brethren as well as our pastors. We had cut back on these visits because of cost, but realize that they are valuable for the Church, just as were the apostle Paul’s visits in his time to ‘see how the brethren are doing’. Church of God NewsThe cotton candy is all fluffy and sweet, except in Canada were Bob Berendt's North Battleford, Saskatchewan congregation that he is over, ruptured in a split with 1/3 of the congregations leaving with lay pastor Boyd Yahn. While the North Battleford congregation is not large, its just the tip of the iceberg on the discontent that so many in Canada feel with Bob Berendt and the UCG hierarchy.
Berendt stirred a up a stink a few weeks ago when he said that that Moses made a few marks on the clay tablets and that much of Jewish history was oral tradition. This has sent the diehard legalists in to a frenzy. How dare he say that much of the Bible we have was oral tradition that was passed down over the centuries. According to the legalists God spoke every single word in the Bible that we have today and to say otherwise casts a dark shadow upon the laws they bow down to and worship. It is a well documented fact that most of the stories that were had written in the scriptures were of oral tradition. Berendt sermon link.
The legalists who worship the law and the tablets get pushed over the edge by this. The law trumps everything.
33 comments:
As a member of the UCG I as many others are concerned that the UCG maybe heading for major doctrinal changes similar to the 1995 changes in the WCG. There are rumors going around that changes are coming soon that would change the UCG into a mainstream Christian church.
All this splintering is the result of master-slave thinking that dominates the COG splinters, Everyone wants to be the master, and no one wants to be the slave. Hence the 'slaves' break away from the fold, start their own church, only to have new 'masters' arise in their midst. So the process repeats itself. Now if the churches embraced trade,,..
Cheers TradingGuy.
There were apparently only 36 people in that congregation to begin with. So a whopping "one third" left, that means just 12 people. Three families will be meeting in a living room. You really can't call this a "movement" or a "trend".
It is very unlikely that the UCG is going to mess with a big stone like Sabbath or Pork or the like. If they are becoming more progressive in administration, prophetic speculation, ministerial authority, understanding grace and the like, then this is a good thing for them, not a negative as the first poster stated above. I have friends in the UCG and I hope that they move forward in becoming a more enlightened group.
What's this?!
Reading this blog a few months ago there was someone who posted here assuring us that the UCG was strong, totally backed by God Himself, and that the UCG was experiencing wonderful growth.
Is it possible that we shouldn't believe all we hear from cult members?
Is it possible that their noggins are too enamored with "HQ's and members' rumors", rendering what they posit here to be dross?
"As a member of the UCG I as many others are concerned that the UCG maybe heading for major doctrinal changes similar to the 1995 changes in the WCG. There are rumors going around that changes are coming soon that would change the UCG into a mainstream Christian church."
What? Haven't you been paying attention as the UCG council members have "debunked" this over and over again, just like Joe Jr. & Co. did, for like, 9 whole years before admitting that they'd been lying through their teeth the entire time for the sake of $$$$? Surely there will be NO doctrinal changes. Besides, these are just baseless rumors being spread by those evil COGWA people. Evil COGWA people are evil.
"Berendt stirred a up a stink a few weeks ago when he said that that Moses made a few marks on the clay tablets and that much of Jewish history was oral tradition. This has sent the diehard legalists in to a frenzy. How dare he say that much of the Bible we have was oral tradition that was passed down over the centuries. According to the legalists God spoke every single word in the Bible that we have today and to say otherwise casts a dark shadow upon the laws they bow down to and worship. It is a well documented fact that most of the stories that were had written in the scriptures were of oral tradition."
What? How dare these ministers start quoting facts that scholars have known for only 300 years already! That's it, I'm leaving! lol
Robert Berendt seemed like a decent man who really cared about other people and wanted to help them. He was a real minister in the Worldwide Church who went with the United Church. His downfall appears to be that he does not recognize the prevalence and seriousness of sin. This has led to some tragic consequences both in his own family and in his congregations. He has been deliberately lied to and deceived by many wicked and malicious people. Consequently, this well-meaning man has in a very real sense become the servant of the wicked, tricked into doing their bidding for them. His misguided attempts to help and please what are in fact wicked and malicious people (thinking that he was “standing in the gap” for them) have seriously hindered his ability to help any decent people who needed his help. He is from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
The Saskatchewan, Canada congregations have been plagued for a number of years by a political animal called Bruce Bird. This vulture swooped into the Global Church after it was up and running and tried to take over one of its Saskatchewan congregations. Bruce Bird was a godless Dodo who raised godless children. He happily announced in Global church services from the pulpit when his children married completely outside of the Church of God, but after he ended up out of the Global/Living Church, he went to the United Church, pretended to be concerned that his children had married completely outside of the Church of God, and badgered Berendt into “credentialing” him as a “minister” in the United Church. Bruce Bird was never a real minister and never will be. He is just another one of those godless, unconverted, power-hungry, political animals who used the breakup of the Worldwide Church as an opportunity to become a “minister” even though he was never qualified or fit to be one. His main purpose seemed to be to get rid of any decent people and bring other unconverted and malicious people into the Global Church, and now into the United Church, such as one old loser from the casinos that he tries to bring with him everywhere he goes.
Header cartoon states:-
"I abolished outdated oppressive laws thousands of years old and liberated people from them. Why aren't you doing the same thing?"
Discounting tithing of any kind and circumcision of male infants, can anyone tell me which COG's are demanding continual daily burnt sacrifices and other such physical ordinances? Those things that were "contrary to us". (AKJ Col2:14)
cheers
ralph.f
Anonymous at 3:29 AM said...
“As a member of the UCG I as many others are concerned that the UCG maybe heading for major doctrinal changes similar to the 1995 changes in the WCG. There are rumors going around that changes are coming soon that would change the UCG into a mainstream Christian church.”
There is no need to wait for an official announcement, like the WCG's writeup in its January 1995 Worldwide News newspaper that everything has been changed. Any doctrinal changes that anyone wants are already effectively there in the UCG for anyone who wants them. Look around and notice all the godlessness and confusion that already exists in the UCG. Each person already does as they please, breaking whatever laws of man or of God that they feel like. In the UCG, each person has already been permitted to run wild and out of control, each in their own time, and at their own pace, and in their own direction. Instead of trying to force everyone to change in exactly the same way and at exactly the same time like the WCG's sudden January 1995 Tkach apostasy tried, the individual UCG members/attendees are becoming totally godless on their own. Why publicly announce it?
Topic tail cartoon:-
"Come to me, all ye who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rules!" to live by that will ensure a happy and normal life, without fear. Rules such as driving on the right hand side of the road so that you are not likely to be killed or injured in a head on collision. Rules such as not hating anyone that might lead to you murdering them which could then result in you losing your own life, especially in states such as Alabama, Florida, Georgia and others.
There are a few other rules but you can search them out for yourself, they are readily obtainable and you'll find it simple to adjust to them.
cheers
ralph.f
The truth is that unless the UCG becomes mainstream it will continue to slowly fade away. Armstrongism is a shrinking religion.
Ralf, do your homework. It is not a sin to hate evil people. The book of Psalms mentions this several times. Consider that evil people have a negative self image that includes self hatred. This is involuntary, that is, from God.
And who are the people that say don't hate? Why evil people if course. Surprise, surprise.
Ralf, hate might lead to murder? Well so might anger. So should we ban anger as well. People listen to sermons for decades, read umpteen church articles for decades, and yet are morally confused. It's all Kenneth Copeland religious mumbo jumbo slop. And the ministers claim that their sermons are like manna from heaven. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha.
Ralph, if Jesus broke a traffic law, would you give him a ticket?
DBP
"Any doctrinal changes that anyone wants are already effectively there in the UCG for anyone who wants them. Look around and notice all the godlessness and confusion that already exists in the UCG. Each person already does as they please, breaking whatever laws of man or of God that they feel like. In the UCG, each person has already been permitted to run wild and out of control, each in their own time, and at their own pace, and in their own direction"
Interesting. Your observation about UCG is exactly my observation about COGWA since I started attending a COGWA congregation 2 years ago. COGWA is no better....in some way they are much, much worse.
9.21 PM There were many people running wild and out of control, when I attended services in the 1980s. I would describe these as a large minority. They pulled their punches when we had a reasonable minister, but the gloves came off when we had a evil minister. To these people, church was the happy hunting ground, all these victims in one place at the same time. They were like a hungry dog in a butcher shop.
It's heart warming to think that God will not allow these people into the kingdom.
Anon said, "The truth is that unless the UCG becomes mainstream it will continue to slowly fade away. Armstrongism is a shrinking religion."
Isn't mainstream Christianity also a shrinking religion? The number of former church members, referred to as "dones" (as in "I'm done with organized religion") has grown dramatically. The "dones" haven't given up on Christianity, but on "the church."
on May 9, 2016 at 7:27 PM
anonymous wrote:-
"It is not a sin to hate evil people. The book of Psalms mentions this several times."
Where? And what do you consider to be 'evil'?
also:
"....evil people have a negative self image that includes self hatred. This is involuntary, that is, from God."
How so?
also:
"And who are the people that say don't hate? Why evil people if course. Surprise, surprise."
Huh?? It was Jesus who said:-
"Mat_5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat_5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, (do not hate them) bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (AKJ - italics mine)
Are you suggesting Jesus was/is evil? Maybe you should do some homework.
on May 9, 2016 at 7:36 PM
anonymous wrote:-
"....hate might lead to murder? Well so might anger."
Maybe it could, if you let it get beyond control, however:
"Eph_4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath(AKJ)
also:
"So should we ban anger as well."
What a great idea!! Unfortunately or otherwise, people are people, if you get my drift.
also:
"People listen to sermons for decades, read umpteen church articles for decades, and yet are morally confused."
So true, yet so few go personally to the source of such material. Surely there they will find a totally different story. I'm convinced that too many people accept the unquestioned opinions of others instead of forming their own.
cheers
ralph.f
on May 9, 2016 at 9:18 PM
DBP wrote:-
"....if Jesus broke a traffic law, would you give him a ticket?"
A simple rhetorical question to which there is no answer. Something along the lines of:-
"What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?"
cheers
ralph.f
ps. see:-
"Tit_3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,"
and
"Heb_13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." (AKJ)
However, be cautious as to whom you submit!
Ralf, there you again. You waste your time on the sacred name thingy, instead of studying your bible. The Greek work 'obey' that is used in Hebrew 13.17 obey them... appears only once in the new testament, yet the word 'obey' appears 26 times in the new testament. Why would the holy spirit inspire this unique word, if only to have it translated 'obey.' Hence this translation is incorrect. Considering the possible meanings of this word, the correct translation is 'be persuaded by the example of your teachers.'
I find it hard to believe this to be a honest mistake. It seems like someone didn't believe that the bible gave enough power to the priests, hence this rigged translation. It's like the work Ekklesia being mis-translated church rather than congregation. And how the ministry love to hit church members over the head with this verse, rubbing in their bogus lording authority.
If Christ broke a traffic law, would I give Him a ticket? Why if course not. I would instead ask Him if he could make me 20 years younger.
Ralf, you have the e-sword biblical program, so punch in the word hate in the search feature. God hates evil people. Don't play stupid, look up the scriptures.
"....if Jesus broke a traffic law, would you give him a ticket?"
Ralph said, a simple rhetorical question to which there is no answer.
I have one.
Jesus is not bound by man's law.
But, we all are bound by the laws of the Universe.
DBP
"However, be cautious as to whom you submit!"
True.
on May 10, 2016 at 9:01 AM
anonymous wrote:-
"....you have the e-sword biblical program, so punch in the word hate in the search feature. God hates evil people. Don't play stupid, look up the scriptures."
I have and I did and can't find what you suggest. Can you point me to at least one scripture?
cheers
ralph.f
on May 10, 2016 at 11:51 AM
DBP wrote:-
"I have one.
Jesus is not bound by man's law.
But, we all are bound by the laws of the Universe."
Is that a yes or a no? LOL
(MAT17:24-27)
cheers
ralph.f
on May 10, 2016 at 8:52 AM
anonymous wrote:-
" The Greek work 'obey' that is used in Hebrew 13.17 obey them... appears only once in the new testament,..."
Strong's
G3982
πείθω
peithō
pi'-tho
A primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty): - agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.
see also Phi_2:12, Phi_2:29; 1Th_5:12-13; 2Th_3:14; 1Ti_5:17 - for more than one derivative.
also
"Hence this translation is incorrect."
"this rigged translation."
and are you saying that yours is? Do you read and speak Greek?
also
"Considering the possible meanings of this word, the correct translation is 'be persuaded by the example of your teachers"
Why? Hebrew is not Greek nor, conversely, Greek - Hebrew.
cheers
ralph.f
ps. Looking back over all that I think I need to ask-"Just what is the difference?"
That is, between obey and "be persuaded by your teachers".
From Meriam-Webster
Main Entry:obey
Pronunciation:*-*b*, *-
Function:verb
Inflected Form:obeyed ; obey£ing
Etymology:Middle English obeien, from Old French obeir, from Latin oboedire, from ob- toward + -oedire (akin to audire to hear)— more at OB-, AUDIBLE
Date:14th century
transitive senses
1 : to follow the commands or guidance of
(ie."be persuaded by your teachers") insert mine.
2 : to conform to or comply with *obey an order* *falling objects obey the laws of physics*
intransitive senses : to behave obediently
–obey£er noun
Let me quote from a book on abusive Christianity. I am hesitant to give the name, since it also describes evil ploys.
"The second Greek word for "obey" is peitho, which means to "persuade, to win over," and in the passive and middle voices, "to be persuaded, to listen to." Again, this is not our modern understanding of "obey." In another place, peitho is translated "obey" in Hebrew 13:17 "obey your leaders and submit to their authority." (I could only find two versions that insert the word "authority," the New International and the J.B. Phillips; it is not found in the Greek texts, which can cause more confusion.) Here, "obey" means "to listen to your leaders and if they win you by persuasion then yield to this advice." This is much different than the sense of "absolute obedience," that is often poured into this passage.
The third Greek word peitharcheo, most closely resembles our modern English understanding of "obey." It is only used four times in the New Testament. It appears in Acts 5:29 "but Peter and the Apostles answered and said "we must obey God rather than men." In the Vines dictionary, peitharcheo is translated, "to obey one in authority." You will find this term in Titus 3:1 "put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers , to obey magistrates, to be ready to do every good work." Here again, "obey" is qualified: we obey to be ready for only good works! The context implies that we don't obey magistrates when they ask us to do something evil or against our conscious."
to anonymous
of May 11, 2016 at 8:45 AM
Are you responding to my post of May 10, 2016 at 6:04 PM?
Without real names ans references it can be hard to tell. In any case I don't understand your drift. I don't think I suggested we should "....obey magistrates when they ask us to do something evil". "....or against our conscious." Maybe 'against our conscience' could be debatable but I can't suggest any examples.
cheers
ralph.f
Your gut feeling is correct. You are wise to be concerned. They are changing things it's in your face in the ucg congregation where I am. Deacons and so called long standing brethren where openly ordering leaven meals on the 1st hh day of UB this year. They are changing it could be as soon as feast of Trumpets.
There is not 36 people in that congregation. There are less than 20. Probably 12 is a good day. And many of them drive in for an hour or so just like in the WCG hayday when there were 150 (on a good day) in that congregation. The larger number is probably the maximum they had ever with the most visitors.
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