Why is it so important to some COG leaders that Jesus MUST be a hyper-masculine man? Apparently it's more important for him to be a "man's man" that it is to follow any of his teachings.
Rod Meredith has ranted for decades about how Jesus was a "man's man." Rod's "jesus" was a buff, hard working, carpenter who liked to sweat manly sweat.
Surprisingly the quote below is NOT from Meredith, it's from the hyperventalating scaremongers at ItstimeCOG.
Chris was a MAN'S MAN, not some weak whining milk sop.
He was a carpenter, a tradesman, a physically strong healthy man who said what He meant and meant what He said.
The kind of guy that would sit with anyone and have a chat and share some wine over a good meal or have a few beer with the guys.
There are places in the bible that describe Him doing that very thing.
His first recorded miracle was when He made some wine at a wedding, so obviously he wasn't and isn't against the use of alcohol but all things in moderation.This "man's man" that Meredith and others claim to follow was also the very man that all the MEN that were present at the crucifixion turned their back upon. Who was there for Jesus? The women!
The men didn’t get it. They betrayed, abandoned and hung him on a cross. Yet while he was there, who stayed with him? The women. They got it. They stayed at the cross. They returned to the tomb, and as a result, were the first to see the risen Christ. The crucifixion and resurrection stories do not have a “masculine feel.” Indeed, the whole life of Christ is decidedly opposed to the masculine norms of his day.
Well, Luke 8:1-3 adds even more depth to the women’s support:
Soon afterward, Jesus traveled through the cities and villages, preaching and proclaiming the good news of God’s kingdom. The Twelve were with him, along with some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses. Among them were Mary Magdalene (from whom seven demons had been thrown out), Joanna (the wife of Herod’s servant Chuza), Susanna, and many others who provided for them out of their resources.
The women didn’t just support Jesus at the cross. They essentially bankrolled his and his disciples’ ministry. Whatever shape Christianity has, it wouldn’t have had any at all if not for the support provided by Christ’s faithful female disciples. From the Disoriented, Reoriented blogHere we have the women supporting Jesus while the men cowered on the sidelines, just as most of the men leading various COG's today ignore the man. Malm, Thiel, Meredith and others worship the law and elevate it to a higher level than any thing Jesus ever said or did. They all find Jesus embarrassing.
29 comments:
Men and sweat. Two of Meredith's favorite topics.
They find Christ embarrassing? Could it be something that He said? Hmm, let me think, what could it be?
Cheers TradingGuy
At the first or second F of Tabernacles for the new Global Church of God, Mr Meredith talked about women and this very thing---that they were there for Christ when others were not.
He said he always suspected that women would have a higher place in the kingdom than men.
He said he was always in awe of women's humble attitude and warned the men not to take advantage of that.
I never forgot that talk.
At the first or second F of Tabernacles for the new Global Church of God, Mr Meredith talked about women and this very thing---that they were there for Christ when others were not.
He said he always suspected that women would have a higher place in the kingdom than men.
He said he was always in awe of women's humble attitude and warned the men not to take advantage of that.
He got that from Sheryl. Sheryl also threatened to leave him several times and embarrass him so badly he would lose his church, so he would often do what she told him to do, even putting him on the Board in Global toward the end, where she ruled over hundreds of male ministers. Sheryl even got Rod to preach the "upgrade" that women would have "female personalities" as spirit beings and that men would have "male personalities" as spirit beings.
I don't think any woman has ever excited Rod as much as his little bear cub wrestling partner Jimmy Mallett did.
The women were there for Christ, unlike the men, because it was safe for them to be there. It was not safe for the men to be there. People are reading into the account something that doesn't exist. Sorry, these were not Wonderwomen.
And rich. Don't forget "The Real Jesus" was well built and well off.
Manly man Dave Pack is supported by women as well. Well, baptized ones at least who have "the say"
Dave teaches...
(1:43) Wives, you can be independent in this. You have half the worth in whatever is there in your house. I'm officially telling all of you, read verses 17, 18, 19 and focus on it. Wives you have an independent voice. Legally you have half the funds. What are you going to do about it? "
Well unless she is not baptized. Then she is a mere Gentile and hubby can over ride her ignorant and disagreeing ass.
Dave also teaches...
"Husbands, your wife, [speaks as if quoting] "Well, my wife isn't in the church. She doesn't want me to do it." You know what? [starts raising his voice] Tell her, "You don't have a voice, woman." She might say, "Well, I disagree" and she might fight ya, but, well then, that's what happens...Your wife doesn't agree that you don't eat ham, doesn't agree that you believe God isn't a Trinity, doesn't agree that you keep the Sabbath, or it could be other way around. Well, what does she agree with?"
David C Pack--The Claribell Call. I mean Clarion.
Manly men can do anything they want! Nicey, nicey men, not so much.
"(1:43) Wives, you can be independent in this. You have half the worth in whatever is there in your house. I'm officially telling all of you, read verses 17, 18, 19 and focus on it. Wives you have an independent voice. Legally you have half the funds. What are you going to do about it?"
He is a very inconsistent and a weak patriarchal figurehead, isn't he? He'll play the Church Lady if he has to, in order for him to get what he wants and that includes being the victim too. As for the secular wives, all they have to do is go to a lawyer, or even better, a feminist-driven government official. Dave and his church of demasculinated men could end up in court if they even try to practice their patriarchy in America. Feminists would have a real-world example, and he would be toast! Dave Pack wants to be seen as a manly man but he is not. He needs to command others to see him that way.
"DO NOT WALK ME! I command you to throw that ball over the plate!"
ding-ding-dingaling
DBP
Morning "drive time" radio has always been interesting. One station I listened to had had a segment called "A Thought for the Day". One of those thoughts that stuck with me was: "Don't be what you isn't. Just be what you is. 'Cause if you's what you isn't, you isn't what you is!"
(Ssshhhh, I know!) Old Armstrongism would have rejected or corrected that statement, based both on grammar, and content. However, what we define as masculine behavior occurs in nature on a sliding scale. More, and less. That would seem to indicate that however it occurs in you, is appropriate to you. If you attempt to correct it, it becomes an act, or something that is not you. The more you put it on, the more likely you are to face severe challenges, and perhaps end up in a fight. It exists and works within the Armstrong ministry, in the military, and other authoritarian structures, because the collective supports those authorized to exercise it.
Personally, I've found it best applied in such a manner where people know that potentially I could do great damage, but deliberately restrain myself and soften up for general consumption. We humans are usually most effective in areas where people realize that we speak from our abundance.
Every single post that mentions TRADE from here on out will be deleted. I am sick of every conversation being hijacked. If you don't like that then you don't need to be posting here. I am no about the numbers game for readers. Its getting pathetic at the idiotic posts lately. Grow up or leave.
Thanks Gary!
Awesome! My original goal was to counter every post that contained the unmentionable word until you know who became exasperated, but I soon realized that I would need to quit my job, stop eating, sleeping, and bathing, and even cut down on my prayer and Bible study time just to keep up with him! Can we all say "obsessive-compulsive spammer"? He sure built up a mess of impacted waste material during his rampage!
Cheers, The Enema Guy.
One should ask oneself. What would Diego do?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3788645/Sex-mad-tortoise-saves-species-extinction-100-year-old-Galapagos-giant-credited-rebuilding-population-single-handed.html
nck
On Dennis' polling thread, a number of people were quick to tell Dennis he should get his own blog. I think He-Who-Cannot-Be-Named needs to get his own blog if he wants to keep riding his that hobby horse. This is what James Malm did. I can't say much good about James Malm, but at least he got himself a soapbox of his own.
Get your own ShinyLightBlog, Guy!
Cheers!
The "Ultimate BANNED Trade Deal"...
In exchange for your repetitive obnoxious posting about trade, I offer you being BANNED from BANNED! ;-)
It's good to get a range of points of view, even (or especially) far-out ones. They stimulate us to re-evaluate our own ideas and adjust them, or at least express them more clearly. We might not have realized it at the time, but we had already derived all the good there was to be derived from TradingGuy after maybe his third comment. After ten, his habit of banging his only drum in his monotonous rhythm got more and more tedious, except when he said something so stunningly wrong that it numbed us, like the time he claimed HWA's hyper-capitalism was communistic.
Therefore I salute NO2HWA for banning him. He no longer functioned as a stimulant, but as an irritant.
The Armstrongist .1% need to consider something obvious: According to the New Testament, Jesus' day job was tradesman -- a carpenter? A stone mason? A builder? It matters not because such a career required structural visualization. He wasn't a lawyer, a scribe, an historian or a host of other two dimensional careers. He was able to reason in 3, 4 or more dimensions, as opposed the very flat reasoning planes of Pharisees, ministers and / or theologians.
If we were to accept this premise, then Jesus would be in a league above and beyond the thinking of the Armstrongist .1% -- the Apostles, Evangelists, 'Prophets' and others of that ilk. He would be able to relate to the common man (and woman) and thoroughly understand their lives, while people like Roderick Meredith, David Pack, Gerald Flurry and all the others of their ilk would be clueless as to the nature of God, Jesus, the Universe and STEM majors.
They would be so pathetically devoid of talent that they would have nothing at all to offer someone with someone who did have the talent and they would be deemed extremely deficient companions for those who would live for all eternity. Jesus would find them boring and they would find Jesus completely incomprehensible.
So those like Meredith shouldn't worry so much about how heterosexually masculine testosterone poisoned Jesus was, but should be very highly concerned that Jesus simply has absolutely, positively no use for them, particularly if they are so anti-science: Companionship with the anti-science crowd -- particularly those who don't understand one thing about DNA would be painfully, excruciatingly boring and unproductive.
It's not like Jesus needs a whole lot of salesmen, lawyers, historians and theologians for all eternity around him, particularly if they are incredibly narcissistic and full of themselves with extreme hubris.
The .1% are well positioned to be on the outside desperate to get into the Kingdom without a clue how to do so.
And don't you suppose that Roderick Meredith desperately wants Jesus to be in his image?
incredibly narcissistic and full of themselves with extreme hubris
"...let your light so shine before men..." doesn't seem to fit with the COGleader mindset.
Well Jesus certainly was not a sissy nor did He look like the common depictions we see.
Jesus was not the effeminate looking man that most images reveal Him as. He was a carpenter and carpenters in those days not only worked with wood, they worked with stones. They had no power tools of course so the wood had to be cut by using hand tools and great physical labor which must have took long, tedious hours to work with. The wood was not like what we see today; two by fours or four by sixes. They worked with large timbers of roughhewn wood. These timbers had to be cut down by hand and they had to be sawed down into workable sections. They had to be debarked and sanded. And carpenters in those days worked with stone more than they did wooden beams. And these stones were just not simple stepping stones or mortar bricks but more like boulders and these boulders had to be chiseled and cut down to size. Every bit of the carpenters work was extremely labor intensive and so we should realize that Jesus had to have been a big, strong man with great physical strength, yet He kept this strength under control in what is a good description of meekness: Strength under control. Jesus was a man’s man and may have had the body of a heavy construction worker. He must have been an imposing physical specimen.
Well, that, and the next line "that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father who is in heaven".
There are personalities who are so great, so multi-faceted, so all encompassing, that many people from many diverse backgrounds and personalities are able to draw on them, to be inspired by them. Jesus' purpose was not limited to connectivity with hyper-masculine men, as if that were the critical ideal. He had the keys to, and the universality to be able to reach and speak to people from a wide variety of personalities, backgrounds, and experience. In other words, nearly anyone from any walk of life can relate to Jesus! That seems to be intentional from the spirit which inspired the words of the New Testament.
For those devoid of "structural visualization", would CRISPR be their salvation then BlackOpsMikey?
DBP
I'd never heard of this group before.
Interesting to see on its home page that it's predicting a "massive earthquake" will ruin North America October 11-12 - right around Atonement. More reason than ever to fast...
4:31
I enjoyed "the real Jesus" too, a great read.
However your narrative is completely lifted from that book and that book is completely concocted. (and partly written by a practicing jew) It was taken out of print almost immediately by hwa. Most would suggest it was because of the troubles with gta. But I would state the entire Jesus presented was far too human too jewish for the "christian" hwa.
Probably people referred to the scholar Jesus scoffing by the trade of his father. The scholar Jesus obviously integrated many existing religions into one.
Many people have asked where Jesus was for the 25 years that are not mentioned in the bible.
Well If you would truly walk in the footsteps of Jesus you would notice that Nazareth is situated next to one or three CAPITAL CITIES of the ROMAN EMPIRE in JUDEA. A crossroad of the empire with people coming there from all over and from ALL religions of the east, hugely sophisticated with center of law and synagogues.
This city does not even get one mention in the bible. I'll mention it here. Sephoris.
Jesus was just getting an education in one of the most sophisticated cities located next to his birthplace and that is the answer as to why he was able to make an impression on 70 year old guys who had been studying all of their lives and discussing (greek philosophy) in the main hub of his country. Jerusalem. Oh yes, prince Jesus had an education.
nck
"They had no power tools..."
I have gotten back into woodworking and decided I will not use any powertools. Tough at first, but so much more rewarding. After fine tuning your planes, handplaning feels like oil painting.
Comment was made: "...Malm, Thiel, Meredith and others worship the law and elevate it to a higher level than any thing Jesus ever said or did. They all find Jesus embarrassing..."
Why that embarrassment? What means it? It has to do with Malm, Thiel, Meredith striving to establish their own righteousness; it is called self-righteousness. Or, as the apostle Paul wrote:
Phil 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
:9 And be found in him, not having MINE OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, which is OF THE LAW, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
It is best to have the righteousness of God by faith, but only God can give that.
So, what is that righteousness of Malm, Thiel, Meredith/others worth?
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
That's it: filthy rags! Now, we know Meredith is about to fade as a leaf. Well, Malm and Thiel will probably follow Meredith (I don't want to be a false prophet)...and me too! It's been appointed once that we all experience death.
But, why that embarrassment to Jesus Christ?
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whose righteousness will exceed them scribes/Pharisees? Think about Moses, who was not allowed to cross the Jordan River to go over into the western portion of the promised land for smacking some rock! What hope does Malm, Thiel, Meredith have with their righteousness?
In reality, who amongst us can say that we perfectly ever kept even one Sabbath day for all 24 hours, all 1440 minutes, in our entire life?
Does it really mean zeal is that important in our lives? Malm thinks so, but...
"For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge." Romans 10:2
One should never "... worship the law and elevate it to a higher level," especially when one isn't perfectly keeping it themselves. Shame on them (Malm, Thiel, Meredith/others) expecting so much more of us ... and they don't even measure up to what they expect of us!
What is God ultimately going to do about all of this? Paul knew!
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them..." 2 Corinthians 5:19
I sure am thankful God will take care of all of that reconciling, and...someday Malm, Thiel, Meredith and others will also be thankful in lieu of looking so much to SELF, as if they could somehow magically qualify and just do it all themsSELVES.
Jesus Christ is not embarrassed about what His Father will accomplish.
Time will tell...
John
CRISPR would be one approach.
Of course, there is the perspective that there will be door-openers in the Kingdom.
Perhaps it's like 'Brave New World' where everyone has a place depending upon their genetics.
It's just that one would not think that Jesus would spend much time with the door-openers. It would be frustrating for Christ to explain the structure of subatomic particles and have people like Meredith keep saying, "Huh?" as opposed to people asking intelligent questions about the relationship of quarks to the spectrum of subatomic particles and why the decay rate varies between isotopes. After all, the New Testament says Christ created everything that God the Father designed, so he'd be gratified with those who have a bit of understanding and interest in what he's done and how he's done it.
Some people see the time were living in deterioating into 1984, but I think it will be more like Huxley's Brave New World. Where instead of "the things we hate, will destroy us" but rather "the things we love, will destroy us"
It takes a sentient being to ask or look for the answers to those kind of questions, and not that the answers are even needed. Even those people who are as a dumb as rocks are still much more than rocks.
DBP
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