It is hard to believe that we are entering year 8 with this blog dealing with the craziness of the One True Church. Has there ever been a church that is filled with some of the absolutely craziest leaders we could ever imagine? From self-appointed upstarts like Thiel and Malm who twist the bible to fit their perverted mindsets, to some of the most narcissistic leaders like Pack and Flurry. The lies flowing forth from these men get more astounding every day. 2018 promises to be even crazier as the days go by. Join us for the ride!
38 comments:
In 2018 I predict that Gerald Flurry and David Pack will both continue the hypocritical bull shit they spew from their neither region.
In 2018 I pray I can completely walk away from all thing ACOG and that my husband will at least be willing to consider that there are other options. He’s Armstrong born and raised so the brainwashing runs deep. It would be so great if he would stop making excuses for the cracks he refuses to fully acknowledge and stop for a moment to think, “if they’re wrong about these things, what else might they be wrong about?” That’s how it happened for me. One crack at a time. If we were free from m this unloving, grace-less tyrannical religion together it would be stupendous. Please help me in praying for liberation.
Congratulations Gary on your 8th year!
I am entering my 9th year as editor of the Painful Truth, and yes, it has been one hell of a ride! I am sure that Bob Thiel does not share our sediments!
in 2018 i predict that the admins of this blog will continually censor me even though i didnt make a "racist" comment; they do so because they are unable to argue against my points, so instead you may see my posts for a time, then the "this comment was removed by administrator" message...
although the anti cogers act in this sanctimonious self righteous way, at the end of the day they are just as hypocritical...
what say u, admin? why did you erase several of my posts?
MY PROPHETIC PREDICTION FOR 2018...
I predict that not a single one of the "Prophets" , "Leaders", or "Specially Called" will admit to be wrong about one thing!
So many people who are lifers in Armstrongism will be anticipating some sort of momentous breakthrough in 2018 for their groups into the anticipated prominence and the final countdown that the've bet their lives upon.
Any possible frenzy at this point has peaked, and is winding down, not only due to time and age, but also because the ministry has tried everything, and has frankly worn the darned thing out. Armstrongism's hook, HWA's picture of an end times and tribulation sold as product, and the possibility of his church as an all purpose solution, played best for the young family types of the '50s and '60s who had so much to lose if the HWAcaca hit the fan. Now, we live in times when the senior citizens who grew up in those times lay protectively upon younger adults during a mass shooting incident, telling them "I've already lived my life. You still have yours to live." Too bad they didn't feel the same way about laying the tax burden on the young ones, but that's another story.
What we've found in recent years is that so many of the people from the Armstrong movement have had their logic center permanently warped to the extent that when they leave, they simply buy into the next weird thing. Some "splinter surf", others hit the conspiracy theory trail, we've even seen a few become survivalists or join the militia scene. And then there are ones who treat HWA's prophecy mold as some sort of eternal cypher, in which if just the right values are plugged, everything suddenly opens up like a secret passage. Like the Adventists, some alter the original intent and main thrust and try to convince themselves and others that it was a spiritual thing that somehow actually was fulfilled, or somehow the overall riding spiritual principles translated into the physical, both paths appearing to support the Flurry mantra that "He was right!".
The coming year may be scary as we witness the dismantling of the fiscal and international geopolitical safety nets which for decades have prevented another great depression and World War III. Hopefully, relief is on the horizon with the mid-term elections. But, as John Trechak wrote many years ago, whatever happens has nothing to do with Armstrongism, just as earthquakes, forest fires and hurricanes have nothing to do with Armstrongism. That won't keep the last people holding the Armstrong flag from attempting to convince us all that it does. That is one area in which we can expect nothing to change in 2018.
BB
I am looking forward to another year of your blogs. Great job!
—Wes White
Poor, poor Adolf! Even when he suppresses his racism, his posts are offensive enough to be deleted!
Bummer, Dude!
BB, this is a little off topic, but here goes. I keep thinking about the phrase you often repeat: "HWA's prophecy mold."
I realize you are probably using the word in one of its most general meanings: a particular type or category. However, I keep musing about the implications of possible metaphors.
A possible metaphoric (though still fairly general) meaning is "matrix," the interconnected relations between a thing or idea and other objects or concepts in its context that form a framework fixing its place in the world. HWA enmeshed his prophesies in a web of interconnections among BI, Daniel, Revelation, history, and current events.
More concretely, a mold is a hollow item such as a butter mold or a bullet mold that forces material poured or squeezed into it to take a particular shape. So either warm paraffin or butter will come out of a butter mold looking exactly the same except for color. Melted pure lead or wheelweight alloy or zinc will all look pretty much alike when cooled and dropped from the mold. That metaphor implies that the user of the mold is determined to come up with a predetermined conclusion (shape) rather than follow the clues in the material itself. Similarly, a prophecy mold promotes proof-texting in Bible study and confirmation bias in interpreting history and current events to make sure they support the molder's points.
Maybe I've gone on about this too long. It's just that I enjoyed leading students to tease out multiple implications in texts. "Prophecy mold" seems particularly rich.
i predict that in 2018 one of you godless science types will reap the fruits of the kind of world you have helped create in ur own image in the past 30 years or so...
i understand that many of u are quite elderly; maybe some millennial will abuse you seeing as how we now live in a world that doesnt keep the Commandments or has respect for its elders...
i bet there is one among u that has to take care of a grand child cuz you raised ur own child to be free to do whatever they want...
or maybe a young stranger will be taking something of value from you today cuz you advocated the rejection of raising children in a Godly way decades ago, laying the foundation for that new normal today...
indeed ur culture of hating on God will be coming full circle in 2018...
Happy New Year....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKXM4YYV4YQ
yup, hypocrisy...censorship is rooted in the censor being offended by (and afraid of) they what would dare stand up to you...
nothing new under the sun, especially some person projecting their own racism on somebody by childishly referring to them as "adolf" without even providing proof of their contention...
why would you even bring him up? freudian slip? clearly you have "adolf" on the brain...
10:17: If adoption were ever on the horizon for my grandkids, I'd want them to have some advantages that I never had. So, I'd make sure they got adopted by a nice stable African American, Chicano, or Asian family so they'd have a good understanding of diversity and how it works in our modern world.
Censorship usually only happens around here if your ideas are total shit, with zero redeeming social value, and/or are grossly offensive to the real human beings. And, allowable posts have included occasional examples of the drivel written by one or two posters who have the IQ of a soil sample just so we're aware of the some of the people who became criminally insane as a result of their exposure to Armstrongism. It's another sad lesson from the Armstrong legacy.
BB
10:17
"i understand that many of u are quite elderly; maybe some millennial will abuse you seeing as how we now live in a world that doesnt keep the Commandments or has respect for its elders... "
Why are you so disappointed in the Millenial generation who are trying so hard to decrease the impact of how the previous generation has depleted the earth without giving back?
I see no evidence of a sudden increase in selfish behavior among the 20-30 age group as being different from a pattern. On the contrary. I see increased awareness of environmental impact, transitioning in to circular or cleaner energy etc.
I hope you will join their ranks in working for a better society that indeed would not replace connectivity with human relationships. Elderly should inform the younger generation about the differences while they tackle the challenges the former generation set for them.
nck
To anon @ January 1, 2018 at 7:28 AM,
Do you realize that Gary approved your comment?
It's not unusual for him to let through "comments of the kooky" to remind us of the COG stenchtabulous mindset.
To Connie,
I disagree, and DO think that some of the "Prophets" , "Leaders", or "Specially Called" will admit to being wrong.
The problem is, they'll only "admit" that they were wrong in understating how right, mighty, wonderful and amazingly inspired (and worthy of your $) they are!
From what I've seen, there's no one who claims to have a special relationship with with the Holy Spirit who isn't a jerk, no matter on which side of the COG/non-COG fence he or she resides.
What's ironic is that many people with sentiments similar to our 10:17 PM commenter- who bemoans a supposed loss of morals in our society- voted for President Pussygrabber, hoping He will save America.
That's a lot to deal with, Anon 703a.
I predict that in 2018 there will continue to be one standard for ministers and their families, and another for the ordinary tithe slaves.
LCG's David Meredith, cigar aficionado
This from the young man to whom Rod Meredith entrusted the management of LCG's social media effort, ahead of Charles Ogwyn and many other more qualified young people.
What's ironic is that many people with sentiments similar to our 10:17 PM commenter- who bemoans a supposed loss of morals in our society- voted for President Pussygrabber, hoping He will save America.
ACOG members deny or rationalize away the court testimony, never refuted, that their Apostle committed incest for a decade. If you can do that, you can easily rationalize away the crassness of a President who laughs about pussygrabbing.
all excuses made by people with closed minds; youve arrogantly made urselves arbiters of what is right and wrong, as if ur pov is more valid than someone else: the very definition of insolence and pride...
then u have the nerve to point the finger at those rogue ministers in the cog? u think cuz they use bible that makes you better than them when u do the exact same thing, hypocrites...
maybe you even think you will also be living for ever? you think the dead men that u quote are better than the dead men they quote? what make u so special? you do the very things you accuse them are doing...
9:09
A) originally acog members didn t vote
B) hwa operated in the wilsonian tradition, so I doubt he would have inspired regard for trump (besides the god given authority mantra)
C) you seem to be the first person ever on the internet to have seem the court papers. Please publish if so or shut up with your nonsense.
Nck
12:45 PM, start here:
HWA Incest Coverage
I'll save you some trouble. You will reply that HWA had his own reasons for failing to rebut Ramona's allegations of incest. You will reply that she either made it up, or believed lies told by GTA or by Beverly herself. However, if you care to investigate the testimony of a number of credible witnesses close to the events, follow the links to Ambassador Report and onward.
You know, in regards to B)...
I've noticed that despite not voting and what not, PCG literature used to (probably still does) hearken back to Ronald Reagan a lot.
Which struck me as funny since HWA once called Reagan and Carter "little incompetent men".
Have all the splinters relaxed a bit in that area or is that just random recall by me?
What kind of human beings would we be if we didn't seek out the best, most workable, and highest forms of knowledge and civilization and put them into play in our lives? Are you saying we should deliberately ignore that and go for something that is obviously less than, just to impress others with our open-mindedness? If you really had a voracious appetite for knowledge, would you attempt to get into honors courses in school, or go to the special ed class?
Your opinion and mine don't really matter in terms of the decisions as to whose material has the most value. The people who read here are constantly making value judgments, and the best stuff always has a way of floating to the top. The truth has a way of coming out. Ultimately, the majority isn't fooled. Open comment blogs are one of the purest forms of democracy.
You're just pissed because you are a kook and keep getting hit with rejection.
Well, duh!
In case my comment gets out of sequence (mobile vs desktop thingie), the kook I was trying to make see the light was 11:16
i see the truth once again strikes a nerve...out comes the damage control, justifiers and apologists...
do you realize that "gary" disapproved of several of my comments even though they werent racist? and i am sure he will justify them as simply offensive, but what is or not obviously is subjective...
yet frankly given the history of they what practise censorship, they typically censor that what they consider a threat, and that what they are unable to fight back against...
it is the nature of a cowardly insecure person whose pov is wrongheaded, and what cannot defend their pov against those who argue against them...
Well, I had started to watch the TV series "House of Cards", but then got disgusted over Kevin Spacey's history as a predator. But, This evening I checked out season 5 from the library and will just hold my nose and finish watching the series. In a sense, I guess it's like listening to music created by people who are known users of drugs. My thoughts are that most likely the people who continue to enjoy Armstrongism even though they are 75% sure of what HWA did to Dorothy simply compartmentalize the bad. Look at all the people who followed GTA, knowing that he was a serial adulterer.
These are all things that people should care about, but it's human nature to repress much of that, and for us to continue as we were. In a way, you'd think members would make the distinction that incest by a leader in the twentieth century is far worse than some comparatively milder paganism that doesn't even mean the same thing today as it did several thousand years ago. But the mindset learned in Armstrongism is not always rational.
BB
In the Faith Chapter of Hebrews 11 is mention of several people who had big moral failings. It is possible for a man to repent. Maybe Herbert Armstrong was guilty of incest, or maybe he wasn't. If he repented and turned it over to God, then he would be like the sinners named in the faith chapter.
As to the ACOGs, the problem has been that leaders have encouraged relationships with organizations rather than relationships with God. The people that have problems are the ones who have bought into this. People who die daily in their walk with God are undeterred by the goings-on of any organization. Such people don't have to have understanding of everything, nor an answer for all questions. They keep on keeping on by remembering who God is and what he can do.
RSK
Yes. Some of that literature is rather political than religiously identifiable.
HWA in the eighties was a huge fan of RR. Made sure that RR pictures on the PT cover were absolutely snappy. I guess it stemmed from their shared view on (a hearkening back to mythological times by the media team (its morning again in america) and moreso the view of a linear evolvement of history with a beginning and an ending. Which the KGB recognized as "unbending/uncompromising" therefore making rendering the arms race unsustainable for the Soviets.
2:27
Thanks, I am aware of the newspaper clippings as provided by the opposing legal team.
It is my opinion that people with a 100% stake in finishing the aocg movement should produce the primary legal papers on the divorce settlement. (if there is any deal or settlement as alluded to in the clipping, I give you that 5 million dollars is a hefty sum but in order to convince me I would need a legal statement about not speaking on certain topics for getting that amount) I don't think it is possible to compartmentalize such occurence. It's just that people have never been presented primary source for evidence.
I do find BB's comments interesting.
Seventies music has different meaning for millenials I noticed. Also on stage at Ambassador artists were performing their artistry while their personal lives might not have been all that dandy. People must have compartmentalized GTA's behavior or deemed his mistakes as preferable to other values.
Yes compartmentalization is studied in behavioral finance as well as a trait to be aware of.
nck
11.45 PM
Could have Herb repented? Had he repented, it would have showed in his writings. He would have tried to change the church culture of tyranny, which he did not. So the evidence is not there.
Repentance does not mean a wiping away of reality, as many imply. The prodigal son repented, but unlike the 'good' son, would have been plagued with mental, moral problems. This is because sin weakens people. This is discernable in the church. Members with the cleanest background, progress the best in their Christian walk.
King Solomons wives weakened him to the point of losing interest in repentance.
Repentance is over rated, and in my experience, a rarity.
Nck
The legal system is partial towards criminals. The very high standards that it applies to establish guilt, is not practical in every day life. Criminals by contrast, use the lowest standard in determining the guilt of others. Hence the 'accusation is a sentence' expression in the XCOGs.
To me, you are pushing a double standard, one for criminals and another for reasonable people.
By the reasonable standards that people use in everyday life, Herb is guilty, guilty, guilty. Your legalese can go eat cake.
Why do you think the movie character 'Dirty Harry' touched a chord?
3:16
You are quite right on a couple of things:
-thank you for recognizing the high standard in criminal law
-You are right on the double standard/ or rather different standard. "reasonable and fair" is legalese in civil law" . While we are discussing criminal law (with the higher standard as you say)
-"every day life" --- As in "Gesundes Volksempfinden?"
-Dirty Harry? Ah yes. Those nutcakes from the movie theater, going alone into factories with a pistol, without even signalling to available back up, while engaging ten criminals with machine guns. Ahah. All very practical indeed. And yes, appealing to Western and American philosophy and notions on individualism. (as an aside: yes western too, since in japan for instance the looser is sometimes considered the hero)
(and the individualism aswell, quite unlike your statement that comes close to the legalese of the lynching MOB, as accompanied by your chanting the word guilty 3 times, like the hysterical mob) Thank God for the legal system. Amen
nck
3:16
Hey Dirty Harry,
Since I am in the habit to award people on this blog who are right I submit some more information for you!
Just fast forward the video immediately toward the 3:26 point.
www.diffen.com/difference/Civil_Law_vs_Criminal_Law
nck
Nck
Yes, thank God for the legal system, the one that found 'Jack the ripper' O J Simpson not guilty. Where would we be without our legal system.
@ Gordon Feil:
"People who die daily in their walk with God are undeterred by the goings-on of any organization. Such people don't have to have understanding of everything, nor an answer for all questions. They keep on keeping on by remembering who God is and what he can do."
Thank you for that well-written summation!
11:01
A rather lengthy post did not make it through cyberspace.
I posted on the Simpson case last month on a different thread
To summarize my last post:
The Jury system is the expression of sovereignty and rule of the people by the people.
Peers get a chance to differ from "opinions."
This is in contrast and reaction to the Continental system where Judges have the final say on who's proven guilty or not.
It appears that in the Simpson Case the "peers" decided different to a lot of opinion because the case had turned into something symbolic. The lawyers had drawn the race card. Past hurts and symbolism from an entire group prevailed.
Was justice served. Perhaps not in the case itself. In the greater scheme of things who knows if this had some healing effect.
I guess in best cases jury serves as a kind of Jesus who understands our hurts, while a rule setting God would find the abstract mathematics of a case very easy to deal with.
In worst cases jury in the past served as a cop out for people in certain counties to evade heinous crimes while their c(k)lan bailed them out.
In the continental system, more trust is awarded to the scholarly judges who decide a complete case on the material submitted to them. This system also has its practical advantages and disadvantages.
Bottomline. We are dealing with human systems and human installed checks and balances on human emotions and our smaller and larger flaws. We have come some way from weighing witches or certain outcomes because "so and so, or this frenemie said so", or random decisions based on wobbly sources.
I hope the video explained some, while not negating that at times legal decisions might not be satisfactory.
nck
www.diffen.com/difference/Civil_Law_vs_Criminal_Law
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