For anyone who says idolatry is not present in the Armstrong Churches of God, there is this:
You will read in the seventh chapter of the book of Mark, Jesus saying " Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."(verse 7)
When we refuse to throw aside what Christ taught through Mr. Herbert W Armstrong, and admonish you our brethren to never compromise nor depart from these teachings, are we teaching for doctrine the commandments of men? Is what was taught by Mr. Armstrong, who is the apostle of Jesus Christ, of MEN and not of God?
Continue what Christ is saying, "For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men...And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.(verses 8-9)
Ask yourselves this! If you put what Mr. Armstrong taught into action, and OBEY it, are you throwing aside the commandments of God to OBEY Mr. Armstrong?
Go to God's Word and prove this! What does God say? Do the people of God obey the voice of God's servant? See Isaiah 50:10.
Does a servant of God ever preach contrary to what God has said through previous servants? NO!!!!
Now, would you be OBEYING GOD and putting God's Word into ACTION if you were to stay faithful and true, and never compromise what the servant of God had given them from God? YES YOU WOULD!
What did Mr. Armstrong teach that would lead you into disobedience TOWARDS God? Nothing!
Now, if rejecting what the servant of God teaches from God is in fact rejecting God as the Bible says ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS CONTRARY AND DIFFERENT IS A TRADITION OF MEN!!!!!
If Mr. Armstrong says DON'T, anyone who says DO is not in league with the servant of Jesus Christ, therefore is NOT WITH CHRIST!
People accuse us of holding to traditions of men, but they accuse us falsely and they themselves are guilty of what they accuse.
Yes many are DUPED and are worshipping Christ IN VAIN. They call themselves a member of the Church of God, and they say they are worshipping Christ, but it is ALL IN VAIN. Very few people understand the real truth!
God's way makes sense! And why would God work through His servant, and teach the Church one way then throw it all away after his death and then teach another way?
That is a way of SATAN! DON'T BE DECEIVED ANY LONGER! Samuel Kitchen
28 comments:
I'll post an article about this. Too much for the comment thread. There is a lot to say, and I can't wait to say it.
I would like to know what did HWA say directly contrary to God's law?
Even the simplest study of the Biblical Feast of Tabernacles will show HWA to have been preaching against Jesus the Christ.
When Christ entered Jerusalem, the people greeted Him by waving palm fronds -- the same item from which they made their Feast of Tabernacles booths.
HWA was eager to make money off his people, however, so he taught them to abandon this memorial of Christ, and instead to spend money on resort hotels so his RCG/WCG could get a cut of the profits in the form of free rooms and other benefits for the ministry.
Show me how to wave a resort hotel at Christ, and I will acknowledge HWA's Feast of Tabernacles as inspired of God. Otherwise, it is proof that HWA DUPED his SUCKERS to LINE HIS OWN POCKETS with money that belonged to the BRETHREN and to their GOD.
To which I'm reminded of : 2Cor11:13 to wit-For such are false apostles, deceitful workers
transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. v14-And NO wonder! For Satan transforms himself into an angel of light. V15-Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers transform
themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. So...
no great surprise here, eh?
And talk about the "kettles calling the pots"... black!!!??
To which I'm reminded of : 2Cor11:13 to wit-For such are false apostles, deceitful workers
transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. v14-And NO wonder! For Satan transforms himself into an angel of light. V15-Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers transform
themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. So...
no great surprise here, eh?
And talk about the "kettles calling the pots"... black!!!??
This seems almost like a 'made up statement', except I lived not too far from this for years, but for the last 2-3 decades I have come to see things differently and more clearly I am certain. I'm pretty sure that the scriptures somewhere states something to the effect that it is the Holy spirit that will lead the followers of Christ into all truth …. not any particular man or group of people. I think it was Paul, (although perhaps one of the other writers), who described himself as a helper of YOUR faith --- not a director of or in command of. Also it seems to me that all writers of the NT pointed the readers and followers to Jesus and not to themselves or to their 'leader'. Look, if HWA was the 'one' all should look to, then the Bible is pretty much irrelevant. Of what value is it when all truth comes through any self proclaimed leader? HWA had some good stuff, some great teachings and understandings, (most of which seem to have come from COG7), but he introduced other things that were wrong and are still wrong, even though some treat him as if he were infallible. Faith and belief should be in Jesus and not in any man even if what he teaches is correct.
“Continue what Christ is saying, 'For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men...And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.(verses 8-9)'”
Notice that Jesus gave as an example of this one of the Ten Commandments that said to honor your parents, which some had found a way to neglect.
Another example is religious types rejecting one of the Ten Commandments that says to remember the Sabbath day, which many now neglect in order to observe their own Sunday tradition instead.
6.04 PM
I remind you that HWAs church was totalitarian. Church members were treated as children without individual rights. Herb used the 'dog whistle' of 'government is everything' to convey this to the ministers and elders. He also used the 'dog whistle' of 'beware of the evil of self esteem' to signal the acceptance of verbal murder to enable minister jackboots on members necks. Herb was a word smith, so he carefully choose his words to avoid legal liability. Herb grew up in era of Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin. He chose to follow these men rather than Christ. Mussolini's words of 'all within the state, non outside the state, non against the state' perfectly describes church culture. For example, I leave you with HWAs statist 'give way.' By contrast, the bible uses the words 'one another' 59 times. For example:
Love one another
Accept one another
Have equal concern for each other
Greet one another
Serve one another
Forgive each other
Submit to one another
Admonish one another
Encourage each other etc
Relationships are two way, not one way. It's built into peoples DNA. Herb rejected this and chose to follow Stalin, Hitler and Mao. Why he even had the men in the 1960s all wear dark blue suits, similar to the Mao suit of that time. Have a look of the church group photos of that time period for confirmation.
When it came to core issues, Herb did not follow the Bible. He was very much a Pharisee.
PS, a Christian is one who follows Christ directly. No middlemen church leaders or ministers are required. Herb and his ACOGs still reject this to this day. They hijack this by claiming that blindly following the church is following Christ. The veil in the holy of holies splitting in two on Christ's death says otherwise.
HWA got more right than he did wrong...the things he got wrong are for us to catch and correct.
unfortunately most of the ministry of today's churches are so wrapped up in HWA that they don't, or won't, see the errors and correct them...among the individual members, however, are those who will make corrections.....maybe that's part of the test.
those that protest the loudest against HWA are the ones that teach against the commandments anyway, so let them shout...it will do them no good.
Samuel Kitchen has proven time and time again that his god is HWA.
He even has his own shrines to Herbie.
https://m.facebook.com/SamuelWKitchen
https://m.facebook.com/wwcgarchivescom/?refid=17
http://wwcg-archives.com
Sad, very sad!
Kevin McMillen
There has to be some kind of mental illness at play in the Kitchen mind.
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2013/09/samuel-kitchen-you-armstrong-haters-are.html
Samuel proclaims HWA as the truth, yet Jesus says otherwise:
Jhn 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
HWA got more right than he did wrong...the things he got wrong are for us to catch and correct.
By stating that HWA got some stuff wrong, you are rejecting HWA's own claim, and had you made such an assertion while HWA was alive you would have been hounded out of his church. So, why even worry about what HWA taught?
Armstrongism is based on the premise that Herbert W. Armstrong was God's Apostle, the end time Elijah. Once one has convinced oneself of this, it covers all of the apparent inaccuracies within the system, and all else one could normally perceive that would tend to work as defense mechanisms or for self-preservation and well-being. It becomes the ultimate proof for everything, and the eventual infallibility of the group.
BB
Armstrongism denied any accountability to be given to the people it was supposedly "serving". Brethren were consistently told that they did not have recourse about ANYTHING, and that they should rely on God to fix it.
Well, perhaps this is truth. The WCG no longer exists, and what remains of Armstrongism, is a tiny remnant of failing, impotent, infighting that is dying out rapidly.
The problem (well one of the many problems) with Armstrongism is the incorrect understanding that apostle is a title. It merely means sent. Paul, in his letters isn't telling everyone his title though that's the way most translations make it seem.
They say "Paul, an Apostle of Jesus Christ" when in reality all that he's saying is "Paul, sent by Jesus Christ". Armstrongism even perverts the meaning of ordain, the Greek merely means select.
I often have fun ordaining people as an Apostle when I merely select someone to go out and get a pizza. I'm merely selecting (ordaining) someone and sending (apostle) them to get the pizza.
Armstrongism is so hung up on government that it has clouded any common sense that they might have once had.I
They made church government an idol! It's evil!!!!
Kevin McMillen
My point is this.
Take what Herbert W Armstrong preached and taught, and with the Word of God prove it out. Using the Word of God as our foundation, and authority.
Then ask yourself this: If you applied the things taught, would you have to throw away the commandments of God to do so? The answer is an astounding NO!
What Herbert W Armstrong taught, is not the traditions of men which pits you against the Commandments of God, and serves as a replacement for the Commandments of God.
Many teachings and doctrines being taught today by churches are expected to be obeyed in replacement to the commandments of God.
That is what is different with what Herbert W Armstrong taught.
Now, if such teachings are so melded, and in reality the same, that if such instruction is obeyed and put into action in our lives is an ACTION towards RIGHTEOUSNESS, then we can CONCLUDE that disobedience and rejection and halting of this instruction is an ACTION towards wickedness.
Would we dishonor God by rejecting His servant? Would we be rejecting God if we rejected His apostle, or reject what the apostle has taught?
If so, then we have an answer.
And that is what is founded on the Word of God. It is that authority I rest upon.
If Herbert W Armstrong taught exactly what the Bible teaches, and the Bible is Jesus Christ in print, and I believe God's Word, and my life is founded on God's authority, and I submit to His Word, then Herbert W Armstrong is spiritually my brother in Jesus Christ. He is a member of the same body that I belong to, the spiritual body of Jesus Christ.
And since he speaks that same Word of Christ, I will believe him knowing where the message comes from. Not from man but Christ!
Now, what you are saying is against anyone who believes that the Word of God is the supreme authority, and that Herbert W Armstrong is the servant of God. You come, with claims of authority and expectations that people will uphold you and listen and believe you. But the Bible is not your foundation. So the brick wall you keep hitting is God Almighty and His Word. So you attack His servant, because after all he is a fallible human being. But no matter how much you attack the flesh, the Spirit of God is ETERNAL and God and His Son Jesus Christ is ETERNAL. Herbert W Armstrong will be made as God is God, Spirit, a member of the God Family. Along with the Saints of God, Jesus Christ will return. HWA will be there. No matter how much you squirm at the thought.
Sam,
The bible is NOT the word of Goad.
Would we dishonor God by rejecting His servant? Would we be rejecting God if we rejected His apostle, or reject what the apostle has taught?
The above assumption is that HWA was His apostle. HWA was a false prophet. See what the Bible says of false prophets. Do not follow them. He went to a library and took information from others and combined them together. If his incest had been found out by the authorities he would have spent his life in prison.
Samuel Kitchen
"And since he speaks the same Word of Christ.."
The complaint is that he did not. You keep ignoring the elephant in the room. Life is not just being physically alive. Rather it's exercising certain responsibilities. That is the meaning of the parable of the talents. People for instance, are punished by being denied these responsibilities. That's what a prison sentence means.
HWA installed the church culture of the ministers stealing all of members responsibilities. Just like prisoners, members were robbed of self responsibility. Hand in hand with this is the ministers constantly feeding members spiritual milk. HWA two tree sermons is a excellent example of this. HWA deliberately did not feed the sheep.
It's because of such core sins of commission and omission that HWA is revered by so many twits. He put lipstick on a pig and deceived thousands that it was Gods way.
You are right in claiming that I squirm at the thought of him being in the kingdom. It would be worse than any pop corn slasher movie. Thankfully that nightmare scenario will not eventuate.
I just hope everyone is praying for Mick Jagger. According to Rolling Stone, he’s going in for heart surgery (valve repair). The Stones have given all of us so many hours of happiness through their recordings and concerts. Musicians are really special people!
BB
It's hard for me to hear Kitchens actually believe that HWA is consistent with Scripture. He got tithing wrong, he messed up the meaning of atonement. he was corrupted in his personal behavior and allowed sin in his organization. He allowed arrogance and hubris and claimed can better use an arrogant man than a humble or unsure man (Moses anyone?). He missed on many prophesies and included individuals now dead in some prophesies. He changed doctrines at some point; was having Pentecost on Monday outside God's law? He said those that didn't give additional offerings for college building would go to Lake of Fire (campus sold buildings destroyed).
he deceived church members and lived an extravagant lifestyle.
I can keep going, church hierarchy was wrong. Denying the Holy Spirit in others was wrong. etc.
He lied about what some churches believe; he set up straw men to be knocked down rather than give a real argument.
He disrupted families and set spouses at odds with one another.
Sorry, Samuel Kitchens. I just cannot understand how you can make your claim.
BB
Mick Jagger lived a hedonistic life. There is no way I would pray for such a person.
HWA was a pedophile and an alcoholic. What is your point?
Did you ever pray for HWA who also led a hedonistic lifestyle?
BB
Byker, I have an aversion to praying for Mick.
(It's not because of the Stones' "Their Satanic Majesties Request" album, or songs like "Sympathy For The Devil")
It's because I live two blocks from a Catholic church, and every year when they have their outdoor carnival-type fundraiser, my wife can't sleep when they are blasting "Brown Sugar" at 11PM.
At those times I 'give her shelter' in the basement by setting up a bed there so she can get some sleep on those evenings.
Besides, I fail to see how Jagger (who has the finest health care available to him) needs prayers more than the many millions of people (who don't have the finest health care available to them).
HWA was appointed by Jesus Christ to be his latter day apostle to prepare the way before the second coming just like John the Baptist was appointed to prepare the way before the first coming. We know this because HWA told us so...LOL
The bible is the word of God. We know this because the bible tells us so...LOL
People just assume foundational things like this out of thin air, and then they assume those assumptions were warranted, when they never were. They never question. And then they assume a lot of other stupid things based upon those. Faith is a vice, not a virtue.
BB
For the sake of peaceful stability, the bible instructs Christians to pray for world leaders. Like many others, I believed HWA qualified for this category.
Otherwise, it's you reap what you sow. Commonly called justice.
BTW, have you noticed the price of Mick Jaggers concerts? Or what they sell for on EBay? There's no charity in the pricing.
10.01 AM
Faith is a vice, not a virtue.
It depends on your definition of faith. The only way to make big money in investing, is to exercise faith. That is, buy when your emotions tell you to sell, and sell when your emotions tell you to buy. Generally speaking, of course.
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