As Bereans Did has a great article up about why they continue with their blog helping Christian escape the clutches of abusive ACOG leaders and ministers.
One of the things they mention is the "toxic culture of the Armstrong Churches of God. With hundreds of splinter groups now eating the church alive. Its astounding to watch as none of them ever take any accountability to the damage they are causing to members and to unity. It is always corrupt leaders in other groups that are the issue, instead of the core belief system common to them all, though embellished currently by several miscreants who claim they have an Elijah ministry.
Toxic Culture
Even you can't deny that the COGs have a toxic culture. Oh, not the COG that you attend, of course, just all the other ones. Rather than consider that the shared doctrines might be causing the dysfunction, you blame the guy(s) at the top of the other groups. Don't forget that they're ALL trying to imitate the same guy, and restore what he taught to some degree or another. Yes, even "so-called Christian" churches have struggles that are inevitable as long as men are in charge. But even ugly disagreements are handled with a level of discussion and grace that is unheard of in the COGs. It infuriates us to see you demeaned, slandered and cast aside, especially by lifelong "friends." We want better for you. On a Personal Note: Why We're Here
30 comments:
Since Elijah is to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, we can use this as a measuring stick for any claimed Elijahs.
None of the "Elijahs" is even trying to do this.
Of course, you only take the Bible literally when you like what it says.
I find the Church of God Seventh Day to be a very peaceful church, and non toxic. Although they had a split in the early 1930s, they reunited in 1949, and have remained solid ever since.
It is growing successfully and steadily, and has produced good fruit. Im afraid that those in the Armstrong Legacy and Ambassador College Legacy are operating under a type of curse. Again, examining the fruit is the surety test.
I have to chuckle. All this bombast about observing a day that commemorates a creation that is pure fiction, by a god that is a tribal god son of El supposedly the champion of a little group of Middle Easterners determined to cast themselves in the role of the "chosen people." You worship a figment of goat herders imagination and fight over who has the best fairy tale interpretation. Constantine highjacked the whole thing and threw in his composite made up savior and gave the world the Dark Ages and the mess we see now all around us.
TLA, with regret I must admit that HWA's heart was turned to his child Dorothy. Maybe we need a better measuring stick?
Examine Malachi 2. What has happened is what was prophesied in 2 Thessalonians 2 about a falling away.
What happened in the 1970's was the beginnings of what had happened after the death of HWA.
The ministers have "departed from the way". These ministers are the sons of levi, or HWA. Notice Malachi 2:4-7 of the assessment of "the messenger of the Lord" or HWA.
So yeah, today those of the ministry who have "departed from the way" which was PREPARED (Mal. 3:1)by the messenger of the Lord, are under a CURSE. Malachi 3:15 says those that "Work iniquity" is "set up".
Now when GTA AND OTHER MINISTERS left the WCG they created new organizations or "works", calling corporations the Church.
After the death of HWA, men on the advisory council of elders left and started their own organization- Global. The PCG and UCG did the same thing. They ALL did what GTA did, and called their organization the Church of God. The WCG membership was founded FIRST, and as the work grew the State required a corppration to be made in order to handlr large sums of monies and property.
Now what else do these COG groups and GTA have in common? They started an organization, and then went to STEAL AWAY MEMBERS of the Worldwide Church of God! The membership was not gained through their efforts. They had to steal sheep.
So according to the law of God, their work is a work of wickedness. God calls upon the ministry to REPENT and to go back to the lips of His messenger Herbert W Armstrong and back to the wife of their youth! The Church whom they were ordained in! Not the organization. (Which was taken over by non believers and under their control went defunct).
That is what Malachi 2 says! Gp back to what was taught!
And so while they are in rebellion against God, they are operating under a curse.
But the solution God says we must take for blessings, is something that is ridiculed and mocked. That is the solution my family presents to all of God's people. LET'S GET BACK 100% TO WHAT WAS TAUGHT! That will remove this rotteness, and will clean up the Church of God! Because right now, God has allowed evil men to wreck havok with His Church as a CURSE. That isn't what HWA wanted or caused. It is their rebellion against what was taught that has hurt many of people!
Samuel Kitchen said: “God calls upon the ministry to REPENT and to go back to the lips of His messenger Herbert W Armstrong...”
I’m sorry Samuel, but Herbert Armstrong was not God’s messenger. The Lord Jesus Christ is God’s messenger whom we are admonished to listen to (Matthew 17:5; Mark 9:7; Luke 9:35; John 10:27; 2 Peter 1:17-18) not anyone else.
Further, HWA’s eclectic theology is full of scriptural errors, which have never been corrected to this day. In some instances he corrected errors (eg Monday Pentecost) in others he apostatized from truth to grievous error (eg church government).
It’s because of the idolatry of HWA and his followers idolizing HWA or his words that all COGs from HWA are “cursed.” Just because a man-made organization calls itself “Church of God” doesn’t make it true anymore than a corporation calling itself “Federal” makes it a Federal government institution.
Samuel Kitchen on April 2, 2019 at 6:58 PM said...“Now what else do these COG groups and GTA have in common? They started an organization, and then went to STEAL AWAY MEMBERS of the Worldwide Church of God! The membership was not gained through their efforts. They had to steal sheep.”
Some of the splinter groups like to pretend that they have attracted the occasional brand new person who had never heard of HWA. Of course, the demons that sent the occasional weirdo their way have heard of HWA.
@Samuel Kitchen April 2, 2019 6.58 PM,
HWA himself departed from God re Monday Pentecost, D&R, Original teaching on Humam Nature, etc and became a friend to world leaders and embraced worldliness. Better stick to Church of God, Eternal for the Faith Once Delivered which was taught by HWA as inspired by God until he departed from the truth in early 1970s. The falling away is not departing from WCG but from the Truth as has been taught by HWA for 40 years (1934-1974).
What is really bad is the Toxic Culture of the anti-Armstrong Imposter Cults such as:
Screwy GTA's rebels:
CGI and ICG and related Born Losers
Apostates:
GCI (Joey Jr.'s ham-eating Sunday-keepers)
Little “Big” Messes:
UCG (Unbelievers Incorporated)
COGWA (A Worldly Association)
GCG and LCG (Rod's competitive frauds)
False Prophets:
PCG (Satan's fraud)
RCG (Ditto, plus extreme theft)
COG-PKG (Fiction)
CCG (Paganism)
Miscellaneous Rebels:
Malm's Shining Blight (Confusion)
Edwards' Serpent's News (Division)
etc.
eh...you take a few nutcases like Flurry & Pack and use them to try to discredit The Church....
it won't work.
Ain’t this just a weird kettle of fish?
Let’s go back to what HWA taught: Germans in 1972, and JC returns in 1975. Yeah, now there’s the ticket! We’ve simply halucinated everything that has happened since then. Has to be, because the Apostle was always right and pure as the driven snow.
BB
Samuel Kitchen said "let's get back 100% to what was taught."
Was taught?? Are we children who need to be 'taught?' No, we're adults. Adults 'prove all thing.' Adults follow Christ. Christ said "follow me" 23 times in the NT, and over 50 times if variations in wording is used.
It's church culture to view and treat members as literal children. It's murderously toxic.
Anon 9:12 PM said: "HWA himself departed from God re Monday Pentecost, D&R, Original teaching on Humam Nature, etc and became a friend to world leaders and embraced worldliness. Better stick to Church of God, Eternal for the Faith Once Delivered which was taught by HWA as inspired by God until he departed from the truth in early 1970s. The falling away is not departing from WCG but from the Truth as has been taught by HWA for 40 years (1934-1974)."
You're assuming HWA was completely correct doctrinally prior to 1974. And you're assuming HWA was the only one who taught "the Truth" prior to 1974. And you're assuming COGE is the only group teaching "the Truth" since 1974. In each case, however, you're sadly mistaken if you think this. Like God told Elijah the Tishbite when he assumed he was the only prophet left of God "I have left me 7000 in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him" (1 Kings 19:18). Don't assume God is limited to call and choose devoted followers of His Truth from places in society you think are acceptable according to your own limited experience. Remember even Moses--a member of Egyptian royalty and a criminal--was chosen by God to deliver His people Israel.
Sam you seem to think that what happened in the WCG was the prophesied falling away. The problem there is that people who followed William Miller could say the same after tge great disappoiny.
The SDA church has also had mass exits over the years, as did the Jehovahs Witnesses.
The Roman Catholic church could claim the same, a great falling away caused by Martin Luther.
You're just reading biblical events into the life and death of your idol.
You are wrong!
Kevin McMillen
Regarding Anonymous at 10:55,
Exactly as I stated and Banned quoted:
"Even you can't deny that the COGs have a toxic culture. Oh, not the COG that you attend, of course, just all the other ones. Rather than consider that the shared doctrines might be causing the dysfunction, you blame the guy(s) at the top of the other groups. Don't forget that they're ALL trying to imitate the same guy, and restore what he taught to some degree or another."
Folks, Exhibit A on display right here...
Samuel "Boots" Kitchen wrote:
Now what else do these COG groups and GTA have in common? They started an organization, and then went to STEAL AWAY MEMBERS of the Worldwide Church of God! The membership was not gained through their efforts. They had to steal sheep.
Yes. When Herbert Armstrong apostatized from the Church of God, Seventh Day, taking their members with him, he became a sheep-stealing THIEF and FRAUD who lacked the faith to let his radio program draw ALL his new recruits.
5:10am
Not only did Herbert lack the faith to draw new recruits, he lacked faith in the Holy Spirit completely and devised a cunning plan to keep people "faithful" to HIS WORK!
He had no desire to bring people to Christ, his desire was to get a group of financial followers to support his EGO!
The proof is in his own autobiography. He'd go out and do tent meetings, then he'd form a small local congregation that he'd place one man in charge of.
Later when that congregation quit sending tithes to Herbie, he'd claim they left the church, left the WORK. So he decided to build a college and train men who would be financially bound to HIS WORK who he would place in charge of each congregation.
This shows that his goal wasn't to lead people to Christ because if it was he'd have allowed the Holy Spirit to work in each individual.
Anyone who still believes that the sabbath, feasts, etc. are still to be kept really needs to forget the 50 odd years of Armstrongism and search for individuals prior who taught those things. The ones Herbie stole from. Like G.G. Rupert, or the church of Scotland as your historic base because HWA's perversion of what we believe to be truth shouldn't be relied upon.I
Kevin McMillen
Samuel Kitchen WANT'S TO LEAD YOU AWAY FROM CHRIST. HE DOES THE WORK OF SATAN!
"...the shared doctrines might be causing the dysfunction..."
no Martha, it's the perversion of the doctrines that cause the problem...much like the "As The Beraens Did" website does...
"When Herbert Armstrong apostatized from the Church of God, Seventh Day, taking their members with him, he became a sheep-stealing THIEF and FRAUD who lacked the faith to let his radio program draw ALL his new recruits."
actually, he separated from a group that could not accept truth...and like minded believers went with him...
What are you talking about? HWA didn't take members away from COG7thday. Only a handful attended his services, and the majority was from his personal tent meeting campaign, and radio program listeners. What bogus claims are you trying to pass?
Who is this Samuel Kitchen ? What is his goal? Who died and made his opinion the totality of truth ?
Kitchen is an apostate from the word of God and worships the word of Herbie. He also has stolen copyrighted works of Herbie and published them on a web site pretending to be the REAL Worldwide Church of God. He lies that he has permission to use Herbie's works under the "fair use" clauses that other apostate Armstrongites use in order to steal Herbie's works.
12.04 PM
Don't agree with you. Samuel Kitchen gives lines of reasoning. He uses persuasion rather than argument from authority.
Kitchen is an apostate from the word of God and worships the word of Herbie.
The best irony is that, in WCG, the Kitchens' local pastor would have disfellowshipped the whole family, and Church Administration would have backed the local pastor had the family complained to Pasadena. Herbie would have wagged his jowls and railed against the presumptuousness of the Kitchens.
Get out of the "Kitchens." Read the following.
http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/mike_ep/exam/exam.htm
There was a line from one of the old Manpower Reports, as reported in Ambassador Review, and it was just one of those memorable quotes that I've always remembered. "The sewage of X's activities are constantly flowing back to us." To me, although it originally described an AC student, that is perhaps one of the most eloquent descriptions of Armstrongism EVER! Its sewage has truly never stopped.
BB.
Anonymous Kevin McMillen, April 3, 2019 at 3:42 AM, said: "...Sam you seem to think that what happened in the WCG was the prophesied falling away. The problem there is that people who followed William Miller could say the same after tge great disappoiny.
The SDA church has also had mass exits over the years, as did the Jehovahs Witnesses.
The Roman Catholic church could claim the same, a great falling away caused by Martin Luther.
You're just reading biblical events into the life and death of your idol.
You are wrong!..."
******
And Sam is wrong for one other reason: a "Biblical-reason:"
Where is that "falling away" mentioned?
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" 2 Thess 2:3
Who is that "man of sin?" It appears that both events, a "falling away" and a revealing of the "man of sin" would occur at the same time...and not centuries apart!
Has Sam properly identified, revealed, that "man of sin" associated with that "falling away?"
Time will tell...
John
Samuel Kitchen,April 2, 2019 at 6:58 PM, concluded with saying: "...Examine Malachi 2. What has happened is what was prophesied in 2 Thessalonians 2 about a falling away......That is what Malachi 2 says! Gp back to what was taught! And so while they are in rebellion against God, they are operating under a curse. But the solution God says we must take for blessings, is something that is ridiculed and mocked. That is the solution my family presents to all of God's people. LET'S GET BACK 100% TO WHAT WAS TAUGHT! That will remove this rotteness, and will clean up the Church of God! Because right now, God has allowed evil men to wreck havok with His Church as a CURSE. That isn't what HWA wanted or caused. It is their rebellion against what was taught that has hurt many of people!
******
Sam, who is the "man of sin?"
When you bring up that "falling away," associated with it is the identity/revealing of the "man of sin." Who is that "man?" Scripture indicates both exist at the same time:
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" 2 Thess 2:3
Who is that "man of sin?"
Also, how do you know that God's Church isn't located elsewhere without all those problems, indicating curses, you mentioned?
Your family solution? "LET'S GET BACK 100% TO WHAT WAS TAUGHT!" And it appears to be back to HWA; however, HWA taught us Milk (e.g. law, holydays, clean/unclean meats, etc.) and lots of Junk Food (e.g. pick almost any prophecy he ever cited). Where's the "Beef?" The "strong meat?"
If God's Church, sealed Firstfruits, were to return to anything, it would not be to the words of HWA, but to the following:
"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 1:3
We've got 66 books of the Bible. Isn't that enough? Do we really need "Mystery of the Ages?" No!
God says not to have any other "gods" before Him...and that means not to worship Jesus Christ, or any man (e.g. HWA), for that matter; otherwise, wouldn't one's behavior/attitude be blasphemous?
You seem to think everyone else needs to repent of something? How about yourSELF?
Time will tell...
John
Or just one nutcase like HWA and that...oh wait, that does work, doesn’t it.
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