The Grand Garden where Jesus will walk with Dave pondering his third coming.
Recall that at the Feast last year Dave proclaimed the church only had six months to go until Christ would return to Wadsworth. That was sermon part 144. He said then it was his last sermon. But of course, he hasn't stopped since.
As the winter went on and the prophecy drew close, HQ ministers flattered their leader stating God had saved the best revelations for last. Reports are the congregants were required to stay up all night before Passover, awaiting Jesus.
What happened? Nothing. Pack became a false prophet, again.
He pushed his false prophecy off to Pentecost. But again, it failed.
Last Feast, in the same sermon, Dave implored his sheep "
"Release Your Assets to God! Sell all as you are waiting for the Lord. Even if the Work has no time to use it. Won't change my salary. Won't build any more buildings. But it'll help you! Probably won't help us. But it'll help you! God's looking at your heart."
But wait...bait and switch. Behold just unveiled Dave's puny grand garden. How much do you think this cost? $250,000? $500,000?
Sell all, brethren, even if the Work has no time to use it...
From an anonymous source
48 comments:
Every time I see this building I think how ungracious and unappealing it is to the eye. It looks like it has been flipped upside down, much like what Dave has done to the lives of his members. One thing you had to hand Herbert Armstrong was that he had good taste in architecture and had a vision. He was not afraid to stretch the boundaries in modern design. Dave' campus looks like a jumbled bunch of square boxes randomly plopped down in a field amidst some half-ass gardens between a gas belching freeway and a Giant Eagle box store.
If you will double click on the first picture you will notice an odd thing about the Grand Garden and the stream to the left. There is not a bench in sight. This garden is not to be used by the lovely brethren that paid for this testament to excess but it is for the exclusive visual use of God's most favorite prophet Dave, as he stares out his office windows thinking his "jesus" will soon be walking these hallowed grounds.
Like the saying goes, "Fine houses don't make for fine people" and it definitely applies here with Pack's architecture and landscaping. Sure it might look beautiful from afar, but upon closer inspection you'll learn the merits of another wise saying, "Don't judge a book by it's cover," and figure out why the property owners aren't the kind of lovely, neighborly, fine, "salt of the earth" people you think they would be going by their surrounds.
NO2HWA said: "If you will double click on the first picture you will notice an odd thing about the Grand Garden and the stream to the left. There is not a bench in sight..."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I can make out a couple of circular tables and bench seats (see https://imgur.com/36cMQg2).
Has no-one in Armstrongism ever pondered or understood the meaning of "reliablity" as it relates to prophets or prophecy? People base their lives on what these charlatans tell them, and suffer letdown after letdown for literally decades! In fact the only things that are predictable and reliable are the letdowns. At least when my parents first got hoodwinked, documents about HWA and his prophecies from the thirties and forties were simply unavailable, so they could be excused for finding HWA credible. These regular failures by every purveyor of Armstrongism from 1975 on have left cult members fooled not once (shame on you), not twice (shame on me), but dozens of times.
I believe that ACOG members have a sick need or compulsion for the end times to happen in their lifetimes in order to feel fulfillment in their existence. One might call them apocalypse-enthusiasts. Seriously, staying up all night long, waiting for Jesus to return? That's right out of the William Miller playbook. Also, it happened several times to Ron Weinland's people. Somehow, I never thought Dave Pack was that stupid.
BB
Let's get this clear, Packs heart desires a supernatural being to inhabit his Headquarters.
He wants to welcome it and have it dwelling there. To wander around his vivid white, extra widepaved grid garden.
Meanwhile Pack will claim it's Jesus Christ in complete
opposition to scripture.
This is very dangerous to put it mildly and it makes one wonder if these biblically illiterate men are dabbling in the occult.
And already under the influence of supernatural wicked beings.
Can anyone cite any scriptural examples of God's prophets giving disinformation to God's people? David Pack's people have had huge red flags waved right in their faces, and seemingly manage to ignore them.
Dave Pack's architectural vision for his campus is to incorporate aspects from the three former Ambassador Colleges into the design. He feels that he has done that with the addition of the grand garden.
I just watched their latest video and once again, the RCG has made another public display to posture their headquarter campus as a means to recruit members. There is no difference from what the RCG is doing than what a man or woman does by posturing themselves with revealing dress to attract a sexual partner.
Dave Pack's ploy to use his most beautiful and striking campus as a means to commit spiritual fornication with the populace is right there with the coming Great Whore in Rev. 17:2 who postures herself before kings and makes drunk the inhabitants of earth with the wine of her fornication. She also is arrayed beautifully in scarlet and purple and gilded with gold precious stones and pearls.
Dave's previous statement that the greater meaning of the campus was for a place for the Son of Man to return to and that tied to that was turning over to him (DCP) all your assets in a "pay to play" (his words) has now faded into the background. What is now left is what was intended to be left. An enriched obsessed idol with a backdrop and a marketing ploy of you too can walk (fornicate) with him on his idyllic grounds. But that comes with a steep price, for she is the most expensive lady in the COG sphere.
His ministers must know by now that Dave is royally screwing his members. They are selling their souls to the devil by staying with this church. This reminds me of Bart Simpson selling his soul to the devil for $5.
"Release Your Assets to God! Sell all as you are waiting for the Lord. Even if the Work has no time to use it. Won't change my salary. Won't build any more buildings. But it'll help you! Probably won't help us. But it'll help you! God's looking at your heart."
What a strange thing to say. How many times can an RCG member "send it in"? I think we all know that no God doesn't really need money so "release your assets to God" really means to release them to Dave. What a motivator "Even if the work has no time to use it" is. My first response would be that if you doubt you'll have time to use it, I don't need send it as I know I do have time to use it.
"Won't change my salary. Won't build any more buildings" sounds like an admission that his salary and buildings have been a source of controversy as in "Why do we make ourselves poor so you can live rich and why are "we" building a campus with such a "time is short" scenario? I recall watching HWA build the Auditorium in '71 thinking as a kid fresh out of the Presbyterian Church "I don't think these folk really believe Jesus is coming next year if they are building this."
It sounds to me like Dave is buckling to criticism both within and without but still has to pay the bills for what he already has done.
"But It'll help you. God looks on the heart" is just the magical promise that God loves a cheerful giver so if you want the windows of heaven opened to you, send it in again. God is watching YOU. I think common sense dictates that it won't help anyone at all to respond to this with resources.
What a muddled comment to say the least yet underneath it seems to be a Dave that is a bit concerned about monies spent on that which may not be producing much of a need for it all and certainly not the expected income from copying the dazzle and dance of Herbert W. Armstrong. We live in an age where the concept of wealthy ministries, personal jets, beautiful homes and glitzy televangelism and the scandals that follow have made people more, not less skeptical about organized religion, which may be the ultimate oxymoron.
" I think we all know that no God doesn't really need money so "release your assets to God"
Should read:
"I think we all know that no God really needs money...." Or shouldn't at least being a God and all :)
The large windows in Dave's compounds is a dream for stalker types.
I've noticed this on many modern McMansions for sale on the internet. To me, they are ridiculously open, making them ideal for critical, stalking family members.
Byker Bob notes:
"I believe that ACOG members have a sick need or compulsion for the end times to happen in their lifetimes in order to feel fulfillment in their existence. One might call them apocalypse-enthusiasts."
Excellent observation and pretty much a bottom line view of why these folk pay, pray, obey and stay. It is the fear of death and what is going to happen to me that motivates our religious needs in the short time we have on the planet. We all tend to be in denial about our mortality and in the Churches of God leadership and members we see this expressed in all the misinformation and mistaken notions about time being short and "we who are alive and remain shall be changed." It's nicer to be changed than to die and wait as if one even would know they are waiting after death. They don't of course.
In reality, just as the Apostle Paul and all the early apostles who were so adamant on "the hour now is," and the immediate future being "things which must shortly come to pass", died like everyone else has and will. Paul had to eat his prophetic crow and end up fighting a good fight and keeping his views intact though death came calling before Jesus returned. That will happen to all these men today. Get old (if they are lucky), No Jesus and die.
Depending on how you view the Gospels, even Jesus was mistaken, church apologetics notwithstanding.
Life is short, even when long. One of the lessons I learned always looking ahead instead of living in the present time we actually have is to never postpone joy. RCG and PCG types have mastered the art of living in an illusion of their personal future based on the delusions of those who lead them down the path to regret. Most COG members caught up in prophetic "poppycock" ( Always wanted to use that word. Dave copied it from HWA and when he said it in his ignorant series on Creationism vs Evolution, it reflected his mentor who was the only other person in my life I heard use the word :)
All that to say, we seek religious solace because of our fear of death and the need to know now what is going to happen to us. This fear can be taken advantage of by religion and its leaders and while many are sincere in it, too many know how to play the game offering false hope and peace of mind which will have to be abandoned and reality faced down the road in life.
What Church of God leader ever said "when I die..."? None, because time is always short.
Prediction addiction, extortion, fraud and whatever else he can get away with. It only works because members allow it and they don't have the courage or thought processes to just LEAVE.
The reason there are no benches in this area is that Pack does not like to look out his windows while he is at work and see employees sitting around. He expects employees to be working as long as he is around. After work hours the property is kind of off limits. Church members cannot just stroll onto the property and take a walk like they used to do in Pasadena. Nothing infuriates him more than to look out his window and see a gardener standing around take a 5-minute break, even when it is a hot miserable Ohio day.
It's a true millennial setting, don't you know. Children's bikes have been known to be confiscated if they dare lean their bikes against trees in the woods.
Underground Video Found of Davey singing "Tip Toe Thru The Tulips" at the Grand Opening of the garden!....
https://youtu.be/zcSlcNfThUA
(Copy link, and then paste into browser)
Adding Hyperlink in Blog's comment :
Use the following HTML code into the comment box
➜ First go to the Blogger Blog where you want to Add a comment with a Hyperlink.
➜ Click on the Comment Box to enter your comment.
➜ Now to put your link as Hyperlink, use the HTML code given below -
Abezworld
Just for you Tonto
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=axTkHw4I&id=4F0D20329D46DA440C60A6B54FD5223CDB2BEF84&thid=OIP.axTkHw4IHrs8PEhS-5Es3QHaIe&mediaurl=http%3A%2F%2Fuppedlife.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F12%2Ffunny-celebrity-pictures-cult-leaders.jpg%3Fw%3D520&exph=563&expw=492&q=cult+followers+humorous&simid=608014123660742046&selectedindex=0&ajaxhist=0&vt=4&eim=1,2,6&sim=11
I LOVE YOU, YOU LOVE ME, SEND ME ALL OF YOUR MONEY
1844 redux.
Every Armstrongist should remember that date. Every building built by Armstrongists should have this date embossed over the front door. Every "college" should have a course on 1844.
Byker Bob: Armstrongists are not the only ones to succumb to the titillation of the imminent End of the Age. Look at the "Left Behind" series avidly consumed by evangelicals.
Let me mention again that failed prophecy is a clichéd theme among Armstrongist preachers. But David Koresh was able to bring about a fulfillment through manipulation of circumstances. With a score of 1, Vernon holds the dismal record. (I feel I have been guilty of great oversight. I just learned that the Jehovah's Witness Church has almost identical beliefs to Armstrongism if one sets aside the science fiction of British Israelism. Apparently, Russell was influenced by an Adventist in his development of JW beliefs.)
Continuing 7:51am. Sorry. Here's the code, add your link between the " " and your title between the < > then just add a > at the end after the last a.
AbezworldOr you can just go here.
"Almost identical", I think not!!! What? Just because they don't believe in going to heaven immediately after death or annihilation rather than a burning forever in hell? Their reasons for not keeping holidays isn't exactly the same either.
Herbie did get the "second chance" idea from Russell but the JW's threw that out not long after his death. Though there is a small remnant of Russell followers caled the Bible Student movement that still hold to much of Russell.
Russell
Also, the Adventist movement and the SDA church are not the same thing though the SDA church, cog7th day, JW, etc. etc. came from the Adventist movement.
What will Dave do when Non-California Weather hits?
* A Hailstorm could wipe the gardens out in 15 minutes.
* A Tornado could level a path right through those gardens.
* An early freeze could bring an early doom to the gardens.
* Drought is an increasing threat in dry years/cycles.
* Ohio Thunderstorms could produce straight-line winds of 80 to 100 MPH.
* Windstorms could flatten the gardens in the fall.
* Lightning could blast a hole easily and radiate electrical burns throughout.
* Frost, frost, and more frost from mid-October through Mid-May. That's only 5 months of Garden-Time.
* Searing, unrelenting heat is a major threat.
* Torrential thunderstorm rains could damage the gardens.
The easy answer to these questions is simple: Insurance. Yet that is even more expense (and even more work for his gardening contractors/slaves/members) for his "estate", and could be far more than anticipated in cost depending on the brutality of Ohio weather. The upkeep could be his downfall.
“Reports are the congregants were required to stay up all night before Passover, awaiting Jesus.”
David C. Pack changes what had been taught in the past.
In the Worldwide Church of God under Herbert W. Armstrong the thinking was that God's annual festivals pictured God's great plan of salvation. Jesus was crucified on Passover, the Holy Spirit came on Pentecost, and Jesus would probably return on the Day of Trumpets.
Paul had the eschatology right but the timeline wrong.
Further, my view is that most read Matthew 24 incorrectly. Many conflate two sets of events: 1) The events of 70 AD and 2) the return of Christ. This makes Christ's return seem to be right after 70 AD. The scripture does not say that. The sequence given is correct but the absolute time scale is not present.
DD: "Depending on how you view the Gospels, even Jesus was mistaken, church apologetics notwithstanding."
Jesus was not mistaken. Later in this passage (v. 36) he stated that nobody knows the time of his coming but the Father. Not even the Son.
With the passage of time we have come to know that the 70 AD events and the Return are widely separated.
Klepto-Dave Pack-of-lies: Born to rant and rave, and yell and spit, and lie and steal, like a raging demoniac.
Can any of you nitwits explain what a french formal (legalistic) garden has to do with HWA's vision as portrayed and expressed by the Ambassador Italian Renaissance gardens. (re Garrett Eckbo)
They are as far apart as is strict formal legalism from the expression of the soaring of mans spirit through aspiration. (Theme of the multiple award winning design of the ambassador gardens)
It is my great pleasure that no2hea recognized that difference instinctively. Although I have a hunch he knows what I speak of from a professional or experienced viewpoint.
I'm sorry if non or some of you never experienced the lofty ideals as expressed by architecture and design.
The interpretation of the design is however important and goes deeper than, it is nice, beautiful or, I do or don't like it.
Nck
Dennis said:-
“Most COG members caught up in prophetic "poppycock" ( Always wanted to use that word. Dave copied it from HWA… who was the only other person in my life I heard use the word :)”
I have occasionally heard the word poppycock, but never until today checked it’s actual meaning:-
“Poppycock means nonsense, rubbish, something that is ridiculous or nonsensical. Poppycock comes to us from Dutch immigrants to America who brought with them the word 'pappekak', which reputedly means soft dung. As one may imagine, the term lost its original dung meaning in its transformation into the word poppycock. Little did the ladies of the Victorian Era realize that the innocent word, poppycock, had such improper origins.”
Wonder if Dave knows, or cares, what the expression meant? More likely, if HWA used it, it must be OK, and should be used whenever possible!
But nck, most of us don’t like it because of what it represents or symbolizes. An intangible such as that has nothing to do with aesthetic value.
People back East are well accustomed to allowing for the region’s severe weather as they plan their landscaping. Even In the Southwest, there is summer and winter foliage, and it’s actually more expensive to do two sets of landscaping in the Southwest than it is to just let everything die for the winter in the North when it’s covered with snow and nobody sees it anyway. That’s not to say that the upkeep of Pack’s campus is inexpensive.
Regarding seats in the garden, there are actually four seats around the central circular flower bed, that is right in the middle of the garden.
They can be faintly seen in the first picture, and clearly seen in the second photo - where everyone is standing around, except for one woman who had the cheek to actually sit on one of the seats.
It is unknown if she was forcibly removed from the premises immediately after this photo!
6:37 is right about Pack getting angry with people standing around when he looks out his 4th-floor window. I have seen him get raging mad at catching standing around. The guys working on the grounds have suffered is wrath many times.
A picture and a story.
If you look closely at the first picture and focus your attention on the grass do you notice anything?
On my first visit there, I asked the building and grounds manager what was going on with the grass? If you noticed, there is patchy discoloration in the grasses in different places throughout. The GM informed me that the lighter green shaded grass was unintended and the result of birds. All of the grass that they purchased via sod or planted were of a dark colored variety. I asked him what they were going to do about it, and he said they had contracted with a lawn care company to spray and fertilize the grasses but it wasn't working and they were going to continue using the company to see if they could get some results. I found that explanation very eye opening considering the church had just had Dale Schurter write the book World Crises in Agriculture which castigated world agricultural practices that relied upon chemical fertilizers, sprays and pesticides, and right there at ground zero, they were trying to chemical fertilize and spray the way to perfect colored grass.
In an ironic twist to the looked down upon Wadsworth populace, their unkempt grasses combined with native birds ingesting the seeds, the birds have then in-flight defecated upon the perfect gated church compound forever staining the view of the most important man in Christendom.
Poor Mr. Pack, having not converted one Wadsworth resident to the fact of "who I am" and having failed now on three occasions to deliver the Son of Man to the community of Wadsworth, he now has the realization that every time he looks out his window, he knows his gate has kept the unclean residents from entering his property but the gate has failed completely to keep out the unclean grasses of the greater community.
If they know he is watching them, they should drop trow and “moon” him.
What is the point of this garden? Since the time to flee is imminent, was it just another trick of Dave to spend money on himself? Church members and the public will not be allowed to use it, other than on Saturdays when the HQ congregation meets. The fine folk from the Giant Eagle will never be able to use it. It is just another useless con game by a mentally ill COG leader.
Someone should rent a large sign for Saturday services saying something like "false prophets predictions don't come true"... Then the bible verse from Deut.
And put it right outside the compound for the folks showing up for services.
“A vast library of literature, cutting edge web sites, initial staff and ministry, headquarters campus, buildings, immense infrastructure of all kinds and more;
an amazing campus, so stunning, so visually beautiful as to stagger the imagination has been built. This truly magnificent campus is almost complete- at just
under a 100 acres, its central features parallel Pasadena and Big Sandy with even some reminders of Bricket Wood: it can comfortably handle over 100 more employees
immediately…
An extraordinary video filmed last Fall introduces what will soon be everyone’s headquarters- as gorgeous as the campus was then, it has advanced far beyond what
the video reveals. The last polish phase should be done in a couple months; any final buildings would come later.”
Sorry Dr. Bob, your crooked bookcases and crappy curtains are no match to the Glorious Campus (conveniently located next to Giant Eagle) in Wadsworth.
NEO June 30, 2019 at 8:22 AM said: "...I just learned that the Jehovah's Witness Church has almost identical beliefs to Armstrongism if one sets aside the science fiction of British Israelism. Apparently, Russell was influenced by an Adventist in his development of JW beliefs."
Anonymous June 30, 2019 at 8:58 AM said: "'Almost identical', I think not!!! What? Just because they don't believe in going to heaven immediately after death or annihilation rather than a burning forever in hell? Their reasons for not keeping holidays isn't exactly the same either. Herbie did get the 'second chance' idea from Russell but the JW's threw that out not long after his death. Though there is a small remnant of Russell followers caled the Bible Student movement that still hold to much of Russell. Also, the Adventist movement and the SDA church are not the same thing though the SDA church, cog7th day, JW, etc. etc. came from the Adventist movement."
I recall reading in the final issue of "The Journal: News of the Churches of God" a few years back a good article by J. Phillip Arnold (pages 24-32) in which he traced the origins of 2 distinctive teachings of Armstrongism 1) the “fair chance,” “future probation” or “wider hope” doctrine (as Arnold refers to it on p. 24) and 2) that the saved become members of the “God family” doctrine. Both, Arnold agues, can be traced back to Charles T. Russell, the founder of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who taught such before HWA was even born.
Like many have said before everything HWA taught was plagiarized from other Christian writers and/or groups (whom he rarely if ever credited) but, he would never have you believe that since, according to him God revealed everything he taught to him personally!
2:59
That's my point.
The intangible of Dave's garden represent a different mindset and culture from the Ambassador garden, through the aesthetics and values as captured by Eckbo.
My comment was about what the different styles actually represent. Not what it might personally mean to any of us.
I do not think you believe Beyonce's artistic "language" as expressed through dance and other props at a super bowl performance is "just a coincidence." Artists are very aware what they subliminally and directly want to get across.
So are architects or designers.
What does a prophet intend signalling the gardens of the rigid french formal style of the sun king, who centralized all power at court?
Nck
Has anyone ever considered the origins of the title HWA used for his position in the WCG?
I was wondering this the other day since in Commonwealth countries there is the position held by the British monarch's representative referred to as Governor-General. Since HWA admired all things British I wondered if he devised the title "Pastor-General" for himself based on the British title "Governor-General" as used in the British Commonwealth?
In my research I just came across an article stating the title the apostle Peter refers to our Lord Jesus Christ in 1 Peter 5:4 as "Chief Shepherd" could be translated as "Pastor General." It's possible, therefore, that HWA devised his title from 1 Peter 5:4.
If true I find it objectionable that HWA could be so presumptuous to assume a title of Jesus Christ for himself! We all know that HWA took on other scriptural titles for himself as well, but an actual title of Jesus Christ?! So he would point the finger at Catholic clergy and even the Catholic Pope for calling themselves "Father" or "Pope" and yet HWA, himself saw nothing wrong in taking a title reserved for the true head of God's Church for himself! And now others like Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry follow in his sacrilegious footsteps it beggars belief!
Oh give it a rest QuesterUK your hypocrisy is poppycock. When you look out of UCG headquarters what do you see ?
When council reports say you were too busy to complete jobs is that meaning too busy on here ?
To illustrate my two previous points further.
(There is plenty of material on Eckbo's ideas of the expression of social values into design, for the interested.)
I do not believe it is coincidence that the pictures also generated a discussion on "benches" in the garden.
The central axis of Dave's garden is aimed to impress and highlight the central ADMINISTRATION building. It is signalling the subjugation of nature under law.
Ambassador gardens in Pasadena was more a mix with MODERNIST ideas, signalling the hope for a better society over the former. It signalled the virtues of the REPUBLIC (the modern romans). Therefore it had the TEMPLE as the focal point, not the administration building.
Moreover within Ambassador gardens was expressed the idea of EDUCATION. I get the impression that Dave's garden expresses the idea of ADMINISTRATION.
Now. Some will say. Oh well, that is all fine and dandy this story about the architects. But these type of projects do not see the light without carefull consideration with the patrons of such projects.
Others might say. Oh well, wasn't it a streak of luck that HWA found these cheap derelict Italian style houses in an outskirt of Los Angeles to found his college. Then again I will add and respond that the original visualisation of Ambassador College was at either Lake Lugano or Lake Geneva, with especially the Italian location signalling the virtues of the Renaissance (rebirth) and the Roman (american) Republic and the place of man in the universe.
The Lake Lugano location was liked because its air of education and internationalism. The Lake Geneva location was liked because of its air of diplomacy and (internationalism) globalism. Of course Pasadena was chosen and the European location for Ambassador would be located on an estate that was developed by a man who had made his fortune with the simplest and plaines of products that was sold and needed by everyone in the entire globe encompassing empire. After Ambassador that location was acquired as yet another training center for another Globe encompassing Empire.
The central overriding theme however would be Education for another world.
Somehow somewhere, this theme was overtaken by Administration for another world. But not yet when the original masterplan of the Ambassador gardens was visualized and executed.
nck
Also from a birds eyes view.
The initials of the roads encompassing the Ambassador gardens at Pasadena spell GODS.
While the roads encompassing Dave's garden spell Ha Ha.
The garden walkways at the central axis in front of the ambassador auditorium have round shapes surrounding the "Aspiration" Egret statue.
The garden walkways at the central axis in front of Dave's Administration building shape in swastikas.
nck
In the flyby Dave stands out like an alien compared to the crowd. Knowing him I suspect he may have challenges with acromegaly, a growth hormone issue, with classic symptoms and traits.
NCK WROTE-"The initials of the roads encompassing the Ambassador gardens at Pasadena spell GODS."
OR the streets could have spelled... Del Mar, Orange, Green, St. John St.
D.O.G.S !!!
Questeruk,
Since you like the word "poppycock", here's another for you:
codswallop
You're welcome.
the new Jesus-Landing-Pad in front of the Admin Bldg looks really Gauche
Prince Poppycock
Teenagers could have so much fun with some well-placed "stink" bombs on the RCG campus! These are available at any fine magic or novelty store in an atea near you.
BB
Post a Comment