Bradford Schleifer, Edward Winkfield, Andrew Holecomb, James Habboush, Greg Kaidannek, and other new "FALSE" ministers, need to heed the bible above man! These men have their head stuck so far up Dave Packs ass they cannot see the light of day. They drank the kool-aid, they are GONE! Chaff tossed to and fro by the winds of FALSE DOCTRINE. They are the embodiment of the book of JUDE. WOLVES in sheep clothing. White Sepulchers, If i could i would implicate the names of all the others but there are so many new ministers in this revolving door that is RCG. The turn over rate for staff, membership and ministers is unlike anything i have ever seen. Im convinced Pack uses sorcery over these men or that they are being influenced by Packs demonic spirit.
Anybody with common damn sense could listen to a sermon from Pack's looney prophecies series and tell you it sounds like a chapters ripped straight outta harry potter. From humans having a glow and being able to fly on angels, to supernatural healing and killing people who disobey with your mouth. From living in a golden giant mansion on a hill in Jerusalem to being able to hear peoples thoughts, walking thru walls, escaping riots who try to kill you, traveling with the speed of thought, having power over people, and on and and on.
Pack has made sure that as he has elevated himself thru prophecy taking on new titles that he would be careful to tantalize the membership with perks they too could receive if they divested themselves of all they've earned their whole life and give it to him.
Sounds a lot like paying for salvation that catholics used to do. No BODY. I mean NOT A single person in RCG can explain to you the prophecy even if they had verbatim notes...Because it is so fouled up and tangled that it is truly the Mystery of Babylon that wacko packo speaks about other churches being.
RCG is much like the occult, they speak of supernatural wonders and miracles and weird stuff and are fixated on it to the degree SIMON MAGUS WAS TRYING TO PURCHASE the Holy Spirit.
Humble works in RCG is serving pack and working on his campus on your Sundays and helping his yes men with all their needs including house moves, shoveling, mowing lawns, volunteering selling stuff, nothing ever for the members who are suppose to have all things common with their ministers who ohh by the way lease the latest vehicles and wear the best suits and tell their wives not to speak when they ought not and most obey the man like Sarah did to Abraham calling him MASTER...
IF RCG is a foreshadow of God's Government which i believe IT IS NOT but these days I COULD BE WRONG, but if it is, i will make sure that i run and dive HEAD FIRST into the lake of fire because i cannot see the LOVE in this type of government and i cannot see free will respected.
RCG SAYS YOU HAVE FREE WILL BUT they try to control almost every aspect of your life, your hairstyle, whether or not you can have a beard, your family situation, marriage and dating, your clothes, how you even walk, ive gotten corrected for walking too slow i wasn't walking with enough purpose or fast enough, i was corrected for my lack of participation in helping in HQ.
I stopped helping bring food in for potlucks, singing in the choir and asked for a break from helping setup the halls on Fridays, setting up Saturdays and breaking down, and coming in again on Sundays to volunteer with moves or campus work because i was physically tired and had no time to rest and study on top of working in RCG 5 days a week, doing outside things for rcg including spokesman club...(another expense). It was too much, how could anyone spend time with family or talk too family? I was told that pulling back on all this would damage me spiritually and also make me to comfortable with not wanting to come back and help.
WHAT are you F%$^ing kidding me. I will never put my mental stability, physical body, emotions ever beneath me for the sake of a man who does not blink as he lambasts the staff as being stupid and green and unable to take care of a goldfish let alone a cat (his words). He made fun of one of his staff members because the staff member got a callus and asked another minister why he got that, so he ridiculed the guy in a staff meeting as having never worked hard enough in life to get a callus and had to ask someone about it because it was bleeding.
EXCUSE ME!!! in the LAODICEAN ERA not every had the stellar damn upbringing PACK had. We are not the Children of a puzzle makers and military men and encyclopedia owners and we are not the direct Descendant of King David. We are children born in single parent homes, whove been sexualized from an early age, abused, left for dead, never taught how to make our beds, handle our finances, taught to clean up after ourselves, know proper etiquette, we had devices put into our hands from an early age, when to shitty schools, fought to survive, ate off snap benefits, recipients of welfare, low income, inundated with this current culture, WE DID NOT HAVE THE STELLAR UPBRINGING, not everyone gets that PACK!
I could never see that man as the embodiment of a Christ who healed a man who laid rotting on the street unable to walk, or who fed the hungry did not feed himself first, who flipped the tables in the temples because the House of God was being boiled down to a house of merchandise, who explicitly said we are the temples of the holy spirit, stones of God, pillars, the salt of the earth, his workmanship, his clay, and on and on and on.
26 comments:
The man who composed that screed neglected to mention that he was one of the few who RECEIVED the tithes of RCG members, and thus took benefit from those people's suffering and sacrifice. You can see his privileged attitude in that he felt above the other members, refusing to do the acts of service that everyone else was expected to perform. No, not him, he was so tired from receiving the members' money that he sought private time that the members weren't allowed to have. What a jerk!
I've often wondered if Dave had a brief flirtation with "Bear" Owsley that nobody ever knew about. Except that he hallucinated and "expanded" his mind along the lines of HWA's theories instead of all the stuff in which the hippies indulged. It all ends up being equally crazy and unbalanced, and won't end well at all.
BB
Anon 10:01 What a load of self-righteous bullshit! While my husband did not write that, he very well could have. He spent years being browbeaten by Pack until he could not take it anymore. He never felt above the members and was always ready to give a helping hand until they wore him out. The "hours" people are expected to perform are edicts from a cult leader who abuses the brethren and employees horribly. There are a lot of good people there who think they are doing God's work, but are blinded by the outrageous lies of Pack. We finally left thanks to the encouragement and care that other top ministers who left before us showed us. We are free, finally. So go right ahead and kiss Packs ass like the current cabal of top ministers are, but no thanks from the rest of us.
11:08 AM, you don't understand, which is typical of low-level ministurd families. Anon 10:01 is not kissing Pack's ass. Anon 10:01 is pointing out that the HQ ministers don't see themselves as mere members. They see themselves as mini-Packs, and are enablers of pack rather than helpers of the members. The guy who wrote the original post, if he were the kind of good soul you describe your husband as being, could have quit his job and taken on a role as a member. Did he do that? NO! Once he wasn't happy as a ministerial HQ employee, he left. That speaks volumes about entitlement.
Anon 10:01 You think I took advantage of the brethrens tithes. The amount I got paid to work at HQ was beans. I left with shocking debt. My family paid my rent while I was employed at HQ. I ate bread and cheese some weeks living until I got my next paycheck. I left Ohio with multiple bank accounts overdrafted in the hundreds. Don't tell me I have a privileged attitude. You're ignorance blinds you. And everyone is entitled to private time. We are not robots we are humans beings who get tired. You're as dumb as a rock. Perhaps an RCG robot. I also paid tithes, second tithes, tithe of tithes and when I was no longer an employee I also paid third tithe. You speak like one without knowledge. Open your eyes, RCG takes advantage of employees and members alike. Stop paying your tithes and see how fast they would kick a member off to the curb even if you helped all the time. Another thing, all I wanted was personal time to study my Bible and recaps on sermons. But instead I got spiritual burnout. You're a fool!
Also consider that pack has lamented that he could not make the entire staff work Sundays but told us all that if he could he would command all staff to build the campus up on Sundays. For the time being members were not expected THEY WERE SHAMED into volunteering on the campus by leadership and other members alike who made them feel like not volunteering made you spiritually weak.
YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND that even pack has known he's been pushing the HQ staff above their capacity and underpaying them. Its not about the money i dont care about that i never did. But when pack says that there are two few doing too much you need to set the ignorance aside and know it is a reason why people cannot mature spiritually they are caught up in doing too many physical works that will not save you! IT WONT SAVE YOU, if the heart is not right.
Anon 10:01 for you to say i'm privileged is soooooo off get with the program! i come as one but speak as ten thousand, i am not the first to speak of these conditions of RCG im an echo of multple accounts that are corroborated, people thousands of miles apart saying the same thing. You cannot call that privilege. And according to David C. Pack any HQ EMPLOYEE WHO EARNS A PAYCHECK FROM MEMBERS TITHE HAS TO GO ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT TO EARN GOOD WORKS BECAUSE THAT EMPLOYEE HAS BEEN PAID FOR HIS HQ WORKS AND THAT IS HIS REWARD SO HE WOULD HAVE TO GO ABOVE THAT IN ORDER TO EARN GOOD WORKS IN THE SPIRITUAL SENSE.
SO if those are packs very own words, no one at HQ is technically mooching off of the members at all. They are being provided for the services they give to the members with their talent. FOOL!
For the RECORD noWHERE did i state i was a minister. NO WHERE. I WAS A MEMBER, turned HQ employee. LAID OFF because the banks put pressure on RCG finances, kicked to the curb....After everything. REMAINED a member after i left OHIO, CONTRUBUTED all of the my tithes. CONTINUED to Support RCG and help in my local congregation and left over the absurd failed prophecies. Get it straight!
I would disagree 100% with you concerning Bradford Schleifer, Edward Winkfield, Andrew Holecomb, James Habboush, Greg Kaidannek embodying the book of Jude or even wolves in sheep's clothing. I know each of them, and they are completely deceived. The cause of this is believing that government is everything, which only focuses the mind on following government i.e. Mr. Pack. So whatever they administer to the membership is only what they have heard from Mr. Pack. There is only one wolf in the RCG which is actually a pack of wolves housed in one man.
That you got out was a smart move. Now use that extra energy you have to work against the wolf pack and maybe you will save a soul.
Anon 12:14/1:00 PM gives us a good illustration of what it's like being close to Dave Pack. What's not clear is whether unhinged people gravitate toward Pack, or whether (as I suspect happens most often) the gullible and idealistic gravitate toward him, whereupon they are used, abused, bled dry, and then discarded if they don't slink away on their own.
Pack needs to change his name of his church to the RE-WHORED CHURCH OF GOD !
Anon 1 PM Thank you for sharing your experience within RCG. A few here believe that if you got a dime from the church in pay you are part of the problem or if you had doubts over time and took a dime from the church, you are also part of the problem. This is not how real life dilemmas work when one is torn between what seems a Biblically correct organization and yet seems run by fools, have abusive teachings or at least enforce Bronze Age thinking that mostly pisses people off and makes church membership a burden.
. While I could not abide Dave Pack or his delusional teachings for one minute because I know him personally and how ignorant of the background, history, origin , politic and intent of scripture not to mention science, he is, I was sincerely conflicted about WCG leadership and eventually the Bible itself while trying to figure out what to do. It was my life at the time and I had not signed up for all the Armstrong scandal and monkey business that came out as time went by. I as torn until I wasn't and then came the collapse, regret, depression and anxiety that had to be faced personally.
The process of divorce, in marriage or from an abusive church is messy and takes time. If some don't understand your emotional and physical dilemma in finally coming to grips with the mistake of following Dave Pack and RCG, I do and I thank you for sharing it. Ignore those who have not walked in your shoes or lived in your good intentions gone sour.
You did good and I am sure your heart was in the right place as long as it could be. Transitions can be messy, especially involving spiritual pursuits, family, friends and being dis-illusioned, which while painful, is a good thing, for one can't live an authentic life based in illusions. Dave is master of illusion and delusion.
Anonymous on July 2, 2019 at 1:23 PM said...“What's not clear is whether unhinged people gravitate toward Pack, or whether (as I suspect happens most often) the gullible and idealistic gravitate toward him, whereupon they are used, abused, bled dry, and then discarded if they don't slink away on their own.”
Perhaps it is a bit of both.
It looks like David Pack preyed on mostly sincere, decent, idealistic but gullible people from the Worldwide Church of God who were trying to hold on to the biblical truth that they had been taught by Herbert W. Armstrong. David Pack attracted them with his promise to restore everything that Herbert W. Armstrong had restored to the Worldwide Church of God by the time of his death on January 16, 1986. David Pack had criticized every other splinter group for departing from what HWA had taught, and had talked about wanting precision of doctrine.
If they did not know him from the past, how could anyone have known that David Pack would later go even crazier than any of the people that he had criticized? Remember that David Pack had written a booklet proving that Herbert W. Armstrong was the Elijah who was prophesied to “restore ALL things,” and another booklet proving that Jesus, and not Gerald Flurry, was the prophet referred to in Deuteronomy. Who would have guessed that David Pack would later delete these booklets so that he himself could be both the Elijah and That Prophet?
The problem with guys like David Pack is that you never really know for sure what all crazy ideas they will come up with in the future after you have wasted too much time, energy, and money supporting them to be able to admit easily that it was all a big mistake and that you got fooled by one of Satan's sneakier, dirtier, crueller scams. Rather than having supported the truth of God like people wanted to, they will have been tricked into supporting a raging false prophet and his satanic imposter cult.
Hopefully, any sincere, decent, idealistic victims of David Pack's will be able to overcome this catastrophe, rather than being utterly demoralized and destroyed by it like David Pack and Satan want them to be.
So.. The villain satan is responsible, but where’s God in this narrative? Or during all the splits? Or pediatric cancer, birth defects, etc.. Blame satan fine.. But where is your God who allows all this to happen?
If HWA restored the “truth” it’s the “truth” that you can fool some of the people all the time. A simple comparison of the life of Jesus compared to HWA should be all the evidence one needs that HWA did not live a life of humble servitude
I could write a book on the complete madness that is working for narcissist Dave. So, so much. One element was the incredible amount of times he would change his mind on things, and in whiplash form. And he wouldn't just change his mind like a normal person. Instead he would charge in like a giddy madman, call a bunch of men to hold court, sell us on the new idea, and then spend the rest of the day talking about it and wasting people's time. Of course we would all buy in to the idea and tell him how awesome it was, lest we wind up ridiculed, axed, without a job, church, future, etc. But then, a day or two later, he would charge in again, call court with the same men at different times, and blast his former idea as stupid (forgetting it was his idea in the first place), and then we'd all have to scramble to undo wheels out into motion. And on and on it would go.
And don't get me started on how everything having to do with Dave is the "biggest," "best," "most incredible ever," "record breaking," "historic," etc. Even mundane things like a basic lake, a new wall, or concrete. Nothing with him is ordinary.
Working with Dave is truly beyond words and comprehension unless you experience it firsthand for years on end. It's other wordly and mentally exhausting. I have never experienced anything like it and hope I never will.
And don't get me started on his endless lies, and how we had to cover for him and bend reality to his so called truth. Try to call him on his madness and that person would end up questioning his own memory and truth. Twighlight zone, truly. It's amazing people like me survived, got out, and can thrive in normal life.
And one last thing...Dave talked so much trash about his so called friends. He trashed everyone, EVERYONE, and multiple times. But then, hours later, could praise them to the moon.
To those who say, Why not just leave or stand up to him. Believe me, looking back now, I'd love to travel back in time with my current mindset and give him a huge piece of my mind. But at the time, and in a cultish mindset, it's not possible. Difficult to explain. But one must break through enormously thick walls in the mind to reach the point of exiting.
Anyway, some will slowly but surely come to their senses. And some will not. The law of averages and probability will rule the day there, as it does life in general. And don't bother praying for them, as they have plenty of evidence in front of their own eyes (no deity will hear anyway, but I digress). Fear and pride will keep some there until the very end. Sad, but that's life.
A simple comparison of the life of Jesus compared to HWA should be all the evidence one needs that HWA did not live a life of humble servitude
HWA died 33 years ago. Imagine a couple of writers in AD 63, deciding to write a biography of Jesus. They could add and subtract events and pretty much make up a narrative to fit their purpose, coming up with two very different pictures of Jesus. And yet, not too many people would be around to challenge their stories from any kind of firsthand experience, which means that the writers could get away with a lot of misrepresentation that suited their purpose.
Put plainly, we have no incontrovertible evidence that the "real Jesus," if even such a figure ever existed, was any less narcissistic and manipulative than HWA... or Dave Pack.
There must be many attending Dave's church who believe that they haven't qualified for the kingdom. Yet if they stay close to one of "Gods ministers," they will somehow, by association, be permitted into the kingdom. Something like religious groupies.
I guess we should all be grateful that he never gets prostate exams! Can’t imagine how he might babble on about that with his superlatives.
BB
Anonymous 640. Are you describing Dave Pack or Donald Trump? Those traits and behaviors simply singnal one is dealing with a Snake in a Suit.
I live with one who plays in Pack's sandbox. I do my best to keep the crap off of me.
The similarities are striking. Those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder all exhibit the same character traits, whether a politician, corporate executive, or religious guru. Glad I know how to spot such madmen now.
David Pack has missed his calling. He should have joined the NWO elite. He would fit right in.
Some "people" have an obsession with prostates and other low-life trash.
I can't take seriously any moral lessons from the guy who could expose Pack but does not.
5:15
"The similarities are striking. Those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder all exhibit the same character traits, whether a politician, corporate executive, or religious guru. Glad I know how to spot such madmen now."
This ^^^. There are so many mad-men, each wanting to possess their apparent kingdom and proclaim or 'teach' all 'truth.' Under many guises. Remember the fake humble tone of 'prove all things...'
Also helps to have learned better, to recognize misinformation and bold lies.
To the writer of this post: I am terribly sorry for the difficulties you experienced while being on staff. As one who was at HQ for 15 1/2 years, being on staff for 13 of them (about 1 1/2 years of the 13 I was technically a volunteer), I was able to witness and experience many wrongs. However, I hope that with time your anger and pain will cease. I also hope that you will find good in the lessons I am sure you learned, I hope that you know that when you sang in choir it did bring comfort and joy to the brethren who were sincerely there doing what they believe they should. Did you know that "set-up" used to be done by just one, and eventually two? When there became a team it was certainly helpful to those original men. I am not one who left "unscathed," but I do know that when we respond with anger and hatred toward all who are there, we just end up giving the "top most leader" more "proof" that those who leave "never had love or Truth in their hearts." I, too left with debt, but I know that many of the times I incurred that debt was by choice to go "above and beyond" to help my family and friends there. In fact the first time I ever overdrew on my account was because I had volunteered to bake for one of the events, and I was the ONLY person who was helping out in this way. My point is that despite the wounds you have, I hope that you do find healing and peace, and I hope you know that real people have been helped by each sacrifice you gave. I am in no way saying that the wrong treatment was right, but I do believe that true healing comes when we are honest about the good and the bad. I hope that your new path leads to peace and joy.
This blog obviously is just plain bitterness! Where are you from by the way?
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