United Church of God recently did a member survey on how effective members thought the church was doing in its ministry to them and the world.
One thing came back loud and clear. Poor speakers and unwelcoming meeting facilities were a major concern for members.
The ministry needs to improve in its speaking skills and in what they deliver. This has long been a complaint by COG members regardless of which splinter group they are in. COG ministers are NOT well trained in speaking and get their training from Spokesman Clubs where men were/are belittled and mocked about their speaking skills, appearance, and knowledge. It is the blind leading the blind. Instead of encouraging their men to join REAL organizations that teach public speaking, like Toastmaster International which Armstrongism regrettably tried to imitate.
The ministry in the COG is also NOT trained in real counseling techniques. Again, it is the blind leading the blind when it comes to counseling members. It is usually men who have been in the ministry a long time who think they know it all and bring along younger men to watch their amazing counseling skills and learn from them, thus bad techniques are passed on and on.
Besides the poor sermons, some members are embarrassed by their meeting locations and the overall experience their guests may have when visiting church.
Back to UCG's survey:
While members do have high confidence in their understanding around fundamental beliefs and
truths, they continue to be hesitant in directly promoting UCG.
Across all groups, the quality of speaking and amount of manpower remains a concern consistent with results from prior years. Many are unwilling to recommend contact with UCG because they do not believe it is their role, or they have concerns over what the guest will experience at services. Specifically, that components from the home office (website, literature, Beyond Today) are polished, but the local halls or the congregation itself are not as welcoming.
Most of all, respondents are consistently very positive about their local pastor (and wife) and the amount of work and service they provide to members. This is notably higher than in prior years.
Next Steps & Conclusion
While there were many positive comments, surveys by their nature highlight areas to explore and additional work to be done. This year, the biggest takeaways focus on five key aspects:
1. Invest in improving speaking at services. Whether sermonettes or sermons, develop programs around continuing to improve the content and delivery of messages.
“One of the greatest weaknesses of my congregation— and most congregations—is the quality and effectiveness of the weekly Sabbath messages. Training should be conducted or subsidized for all those given the responsibility to speak in order to help them develop the skills and tools to speak effectively and in line with basic princip[les] of learning and development, not just technically doctrinally correct messages. I believe this is key for the church to continue to grow and to properly feed not only those veterans in the church but the newly converted.”
2. Establish a consistent and minimum standard toward the quality of meeting halls. This is new this year, along with a desire to own meeting halls, but is perceived as being able to help local congregations thrive and grow.
3. Explore the balance of programs and resources devoted to Preaching the Gospel and Preparing a People. The respondents understand these are hard choices.
4. The engagement at services, whether that be rich, spiritual conversations or involving more of the membership in service. Especially beyond elements of speaking, there is a real desire for more members to reach out and check in on one another and make sure everyone feels included in fellowship and activities. Many desire an experience similar to this comment:
“We are a close-knit family. Eating a potluck meal together every week after services and prolonging the fellowshipping has truly contributed to our closeness. Some of us have formed special ‘study-buddy’ relationships which continually stirs up the spirit within us, just as it should. I am so grateful to have been called by God and to be a part of this congregation I am with!”
5. There is deep admiration for the service and work pastors and their wives do for the members. There is a need to perhaps adjust expectation on how much can be done with smaller overall membership and concern they are spread too thin.
• “Although my pastor has more on his plate than most people could handle, I think he does an excellent job. However, I do worry that he is asked to do too much.”
• “Our pastor is one of the most humble and serving people I have ever met! We are very, very blessed to have him and his wife with us!!”
The survey administration team would like to express its appreciation to all those who took the time to participate in the survey. Many of the insights and findings included actionable and helpful ideas and the data represents a statistically sound representation due to the efforts of those that contributed.
While one of the comments stated, “I feel overall that considering our budget and man-power situation, we are doing a superb job...it is an honor to be asked periodically as is the case here,” it is just as important to recognize everyone who shared their thoughts. Thank you.
54 comments:
“Many are unwilling to recommend contact with UCG because they do not believe it is their role, or they have concerns over what the guest will experience at services.”
Yes, it certainly is scary to think about what any guest would experience at a UCG meeting.
It is far too embarrassing and dangerous to take any friends or relatives to a cult full of such godless and wicked stalkers as the UCG has attracted. The political animals that got themselves set up as newly-credentialed, fake, UCG “ministers” do not help the matter at all. The shabby UCG meeting places are actually a fitting backdrop for what happens at them.
The UCG was bad enough before the big split of 2010. With the split off of COGWA, what was left of the UCG appears to have been abandoned to the unbelievers, weirdos, semi-retarded guys, malicious gossips, liars, slanderers, dirty old men, stupid and fat old women in pants with men's haircuts, perverts, stalkers, demons, etc.
The UCG is a complete disaster and will be a huge embarrassment to anyone who does not understand that it has become a playpen for unclean things, people, and spirits.
In the WCG things got worse and worse until believers were forced to leave in 1995.
In the UCG things got worse and worse until believers were forced to leave in 2010.
Anon 12:49 a fake troll trying to stir up trouble.
Ignore!
Cult leaders trying to convince people that they CARE?
Hahahahahahahahahhahaha
When I was in seminary (after graduating from AC and leaving the WCG) I attended a course on preaching. The instructor said that the quality of preaching in the U.S today is very poor. I've sat through religious services where, upon leaving, I asked myself, "What was the point of his message?" Too often the preacher simply strings together a long chain of religious expressions with no substance to the message. I call them cotton candy sermons, all air, no substance. So, UCG is not alone in having a poor level of preaching. How many sermons stand out in your mind? I recall one by GTA at Squaw Valley during the FOT. He played the song, What the World Needs Now is love Sweet Love. This was just before he was removed from his position because, apparently, he took the "love sweet love" to an inappropriate level. Though I don't recall the content of their messages, David Antion appeared to be a caring person, David Jon Hill was funny, Herman Hoeh was dreadfully boring and RCM was just overbearing and critical. As for HWA, the first time he spoke Friday evening in the gym, I was eager to hear him, in person. But, after he kept giving the same lesson from Genesis, well, it was awful.
Quite frankly when I hear a sermon in UCG I am bored out of my skull! It is the same thing I have heard over and over. Do any of them ever have an original concept? All one has to do is wait a year or so and the preacher will preach the exact same sermon over. Most are too lazy to be original and to think outside the box. Going to a UCG service is a dreadful experience any more.
components from the home office (website, literature, Beyond Today) are polished
This puts UCG far ahead of every other group except for PCG. PCG at least upholds professional standards in its literature, even though the literature is promoting a destructive mind control cult. LCG and COGWA materials are so repetitive, simplistic, and poorly presented that they couldn't even control the mind of someone trying to be brainwashed.
When I was in seminary (after graduating from AC and leaving the WCG) I attended a course on preaching. The instructor said that the quality of preaching in the U.S today is very poor. I've sat through religious services where, upon leaving, I asked myself, "What was the point of his message?" Too often the preacher simply strings together a long chain of religious expressions with no substance to the message. I call them cotton candy sermons, all air, no substance. So, UCG is not alone in having a poor level of preaching. How many sermons stand out in your mind? I recall one by GTA at Squaw Valley during the FOT. He played the song, What the World Needs Now is love Sweet Love. This was just before he was removed from his position because, apparently, he took the "love sweet love" to an inappropriate level. Though I don't recall the content of their messages, David Antion appeared to be a caring person, David Jon Hill was funny, Herman Hoeh was dreadfully boring and RCM was just overbearing and critical. As for HWA, the first time he spoke Friday evening in the gym, I was eager to hear him, in person. But, after he kept giving the same lesson from Genesis, well, it was awful.
12.49 PM
Why don't you tell us what you really think. Ha, ha, ha.
Sadly what you describe is what I experienced during my church attendance during the 1980s. I was constantly slandered and stalked by several members. A married woman followed me around like a dog and everyone pretended that nothing was wrong. Other single women avoided me because I was "owned" by this woman. Had I married in that congregation, I would have had two women at the altar saying "I do" and a threesome on my wedding night.
Anonymous at 1:26 PM said...“Anon 12:49 a fake troll trying to stir up trouble.”
Or, maybe just another very real victim of all the satanic abuse in the so-called COGs, who is simply telling it like it is in order to warn others. The true facts about these groups are very bad.
Anonymous at 1:45 PM said...“PCG at least upholds professional standards in its literature, even though the literature is promoting a destructive mind control cult.”
Examples of the PCG's professional standards in its literature:
Professional plagiarizing of the prophetic guess writings of Jules Dervaes.
Professional updating of the resultant “little book” even though it had supposedly been “delivered by a mighty angel.”
Professional editing and changing of HWA's old books and booklets.
Professional promotion of a drunken runt to all sorts of high offices and positions.
Professional cult propaganda of a satanic imposter cult.
Many examples of good, solid preaching are waiting for UCG (and other COG) speakers. They can listen and learn those skills for hours every day.
Trouble is, they're on Christian radio stations. And COG's in general don't want their members getting close to that.
Meeting hall appearance? Seriously? There are Torah keeping groups who meet in homes or have get togethers with others, staying in tents, eating around campfires, yet a lacking point is meeting hall appearance at UCG. How shallow some have become? Are we ALL too focused on the "material "? I fear yes.
The problem is a basic one that afflicts all cogs, they will not preach the gospel the way it is lid out in scripture. Either they are afraid of losing tithe paying members or they might offend someone. It would appears that no one cares in the religious community outside of the cogs what they think, say or do. They preach wishy washy bilge water and have no idea how to accomplish the commision that Christ gave his church to do.
I will commend ucg for at least having the intestinal fortitude to keep taking those surveys.On the other hand you have two other cogs living and cogwa that have permanent dictatorship from the top down. They would not want to hear what members are really thinking but are afraid to express opinion. The zeal has gone out of the church many have lost their first love turning ith services into nothing more than a happy hour without the booze.
What the UCG leaders and members really need to do is to STOP DOING EVIL all the time.
They need to STOP trying to find some other way to grow.
"UCG Members Tell Cincinnati That They Want Better Speakers And Subjects Preached On AND Better Quality Meeting Locations"
Fire the members, they are asking for too much.
• “Although my pastor has more on his plate than most people could handle, I think he does an excellent job. However, I do worry that he is asked to do too much.”
MY COMMENT - Pity the poor preacher! Oh boo hoo hoo! These ACOG ministers couldn't handle a real job in the real world if it were on their plates to handle! So these hirelings play "make believe church work" in their "make believe church world" with little on their plates than most people to handle - except for their meal ticket plates. Whatever happened to no work, no eat?
Richard
1:28/1:55
I recall a sermon after potluck back in ’10 or ’11 on Atonement and the minister’s topic was on Ezekiel. I can’t remember anything more than that and that’s because it was nothing but a waste of 2 hours as he droned on about some theories of his re the book of Ezekiel that went way over my head and I wasn’t alone! Another member noted I felt frustrated afterwards and told me not to worry about it since this fellow—who I hadn’t heard speak till that day—usually talks about abstract stuff. I honestly thought it would’ve been more constructive if I’d have gone home after lunch to study the Bible myself rather than listen to him. It made me feel like I was desecrating the holy day listening to his boring and impractical inanity.
Seriously folks, just WHO are the effective speakers in UCG? They are all like broken records and say the same damn thing all the time. Far too many are there just in it for the glory, their tax deductions, and their meal ticket from HQ. If these men had been men of integrity when they formed UCG they would have been a volunteer ministry instead of making a financial windfall for all of them.
The PCG is only interested in image.
4.04 PM
The UCG is less of a dictatorship only because their lawless members wouldn't have it any other way. They are pandering to their clientele.
The concern about meeting halls is noteworthy because UCG has been on a drive over the last several years to buy its own local church buildings. Southeast Missouri is one example. But it apparently isn't happening fast enough for some.
When I was a member of the WCG I remember the Pastor telling us when they saw the members dozing off or staring aimlessly in church - that that really meant the membership was hearing gospel truther - which meant that had the membership had been alert, it meant they were hearing heresy. So the pastor would know that he was on the right track as HWA had preached - getting back on track. Doesn't this type of church teaching tell you something?????
H.K.
Quality of messages is an issue among most of the COG groups to one degree or another. Many sermons and sermonettes are repetitive, tedious, or dry, depending on the speaker, while others seem to try to make a stab at entertaining the audience, but lack true substance or as was pointed out above, a clear point. We have an aging ministry as well as other speakers who seem to be bored at times with their own topics, and prone to giving the same sermon or parts of it over and over again, or meandering through the time, losing their train of thought, losing their place in their notes, etc. Some seem fond of setting up straw men to knock down, or just ranting about political topics and calling that a sermon/sermonette.
Rarely there might be a speaker who takes time to add some interest in the form of visual aids, maps, slides, power point, or other means to liven up his message and make it a little more interesting and easier to follow. Most of the time this isn't the case, and you are left with the talent of the speaker or lack thereof to deal with and endure.
Another issue is the lack of Biblical knowledge, or in some cases the lack of ability to communicate that knowledge in an interesting or understandable way that the average person is able to engage with and learn from. In a day when I can and do sit in the audience and periodically fact check the speaker, I have come away numerous times from the service disappointed because the speaker either didn't do his homework and is just regurgitating the party line, or I feel like the speaker may have done some research on the topic at hand but is trying to reason his way around the information and justify tradition or the party line anyway. Cherry picking or pulling scripture out of context doesn't cut it when someone has e-Sword, Bible Hub, Blue Letter Bible, and other online sources at their instant disposal. Assuming something is true without due diligence or resting on one's laurels, and the supposition that HWA or someone else already "proved" something so we today don't need to look into it any further doesn't do the trick either. If I answer to God, it's up to me to "prove" or fact check what I am being told, whether that be from some dated source, or a more current one.
Concerned Sister
That's not far from the intention of the rebels within the Ministry. Slaughter, trap, push out the ones who grassed them up.
No highly likely one of the ministerial elite who haunt this blog trying to make it look like UCG members.
They are twisted like that.
Blue letter bible oops. That well known iffy version.
What about speakers who don't believe anymore Concerned Sister?
Christianity is awash with modern day warnings of pastors who have become atheists but remain in their jobs.Yet the COG completely ignores this modern day plague.
Atheist pastors are on the rise. Men and women who preach but are empty voices. True belief in even the existence of God, is far from their hearts. They believe in Charles Darwin more than Jesus Christ. They don't believe in creation or even Jesus Christ being three days in the grave, nothing.
But it has affected the COG groups even UCG.
Their voices have become empty, they preach but God knows their hearts are far from Him.
Are people expected to think it has not eroded into the various COG groups. This survey results clearly show that it has.
Jesus Christ warmed of perilous times. Is it not perilous for sheep if their shepherd does not have the heart and mind of Jesus Christ, nor even believe in His return? "Concerned Sister"?
Boring sermons are the nature of Armstrongism. No exciting sermons that inspire the congregation to clap their hands, wave them in the air or shout, "praise Jesus" can't be allowed. Instead they have to listen to boring sermons that put them to sleep physically as well as mentally. Are boring sermons by design? Are the sermons used to put to sleep the critical thinking part of the brain so the members are more easily controlled?
A lot of the messages that I have heard over the years from several COG's emphasized the false and not the truth. Messages about paganism, evolution, worldly Christians, etc. are a waste of time. Are those the kind of subjects that Christ talked about?
It would be financially undoable to purchase or build meeting facilities for most congregations of the UCG because most congregations are smaller then the number needed to make it practical. What is the average size of each UCG congregation? 50?
I attended the Feast w/UCG many years ago on Jekyll Island, and found the sermons quite boring. There was no real "meat", just pablum.
There was well over a thousand attendees, as the conference center was packed, with people spilling out into the area outside the room.
I figured they kept the sermons milquetoast so as not to offend anyone. The truth has been known to chase people away.
Never attended a UCG service again.
If a pastor is working very hard, and is burdened by the workload, perhaps it is because the leaders are not willing to equip the saints for service as Eph 4 speaks of. Encouraging members to use their gifts and get involved in ministry was never promoted, as I recall, when I was in the WCG in the early 70's. To allow others to teach, counsel, etc. would mean that others would have some influence over others, which would be unacceptable. So, the preachers can pretend to be working hard and gain sympathy. If a pastor is working too hard, he isn't doing his job of equipping the saints. Every members should be viewed as a minister, in his or her own area of giftedness. Pastors are not there to minister TO the passive members, but to minister WITH them. I heard a sermon given by a basketball coach. He said that members of the church "didn't buy a ticket" to allow themselves to be sitting passively in the stands while a few superbly trained athletes are working very hard on the floor. Get out of the stands and into the game. But, we know that many pastors are insecure and don't want others to be viewed as having any skills for ministry.
This criticism supports a point I have been making. I have never attended a splinter group service but it sounds like the preaching is deficient across the board. This is why the "Jesus Returns Play" is so exciting and riveting to these people. But always with this "sermon as entertainment" approach, there is a built-in need for escalation. Each liturgical reenactment of "Jesus Returns" will need to exceed the previous play in some way. This will lead to all kinds of perfidy, borrowings from reality TV and probably some innovative heresies. And we will see, more and more, that splinter group leaders with skills in Millerite theater will come to dominate the Armstrongist scene.
To me, the ultimate problem with sermon giving in an organizational setting is that both pastor and member have faith restrictions and a story that has been settled upon outside of which one must not roam. It is why Paul had hissy fits over not going with the tale he weaved versus that of others. It is why he demanded "we all speak the same thing that there be no divisions amongst you." I Cor 1:10. That setting makes it impossible to teach what may actually be true instead of what simply are foregone beliefs. Beliefs are only that...beliefs. They hold no weight to what might actually be true.
I could give a very interesting sermon on the Birth Narratives of Jesus to a Church of God. It would be standard fair as to what we now understand about the why and wherefore of their inclusion in the Gospels and the many contradictions between them. The audience would pitch a fit.
I could give a sermon on the Apostle Paul's appearance as a challenger to Peter, James and John's version of Jesus. It would be accurate and real but the audience would pitch a fit.
I could give a fascinating sermon on the Gospels not being eyewitness accounts and how they came to be, how they were not written by the men whose names are affixed but anonymously at first and it would be true. The audience would pitch a fit.
I could give a sermon the the fact of evolution and the original intent of the Genesis creation story and its origins. It would be true. The audience would pitch a fit.
The COG ministry is stuck, as are ALL churches in their denominational spin. Step outside and you might hear, "We think you know a lot about Jesus, but we don't think you know Jesus" I did and the rest is history... :)
In short, the COG ministry is stuck making old wine in old wineskins seem new. To inject new wine into new wineskins works fine, but they have neither new wine nor new wineskins to put it in. Not allowed.
Marcus Lemonis, the CEO of Camping World, and creator of the business show "The Profit" sums up the success principles for ANY organization in the following three necessary concepts. You have to have the following to be successful...
1) PEOPLE -- You have to have people with talent, or be willing to train people to have the talent. Many of the brightest , innovative, progressive or younger thinking people of the COGs have been chased away from the COGs by the old staid HWA era mentalities, and the idea that 1967 is the benchmark for all things God.
2) PRODUCT - You have to have a good quality product that people need, want and can relate to. Having crappy service locations in Beer Halls, VFW halls, Masonic Lodges or Hotel rooms is part of having a bad product. Boring worn out Dwight Purple Hymnal songs, no guitars, no drums , no upbeat improved and modern christian music doesn't help in the product area. Sermons that are little more than "benchmarked" , no risk , basic "give every scripture from the concordance on a subject" are poor products too.
3) PROCESS - This often involves things like marketing, and how things are assembled. Talking head marketing on WGN at 3 in the morning is very obviously NOT working for any group. There is virtually no translation of this into attendance. The entire UCG only had 120 Baptisms last year, and at least 80 of those were children or relatives of members.
What UCG and other groups should do , is have their very best speakers record GOOD sermons, and then have them transcribed and distributed to the ministry. The local ministry can then add some of their own style to it, and minor edits to personalize it. Although many ministers are not too bad in terms of delivery, (tone, confidence etc) they seem to be very UNCREATIVE in producing content. Even Trump and Biden have speech writers, as do Hollywood actors. Get the most talented "content producers" to produce scripts. At the very least, ministers should be watching other preachers, and analyzing and copying those that captivate them! Lots of stuff online to review, or perhaps take cues from the masters, someone like Ron Dart, who has tons of material online to peruse.
Tonto, WCG used to have "speech writers" - and to some extent still might.
My WCG pastor in the mid-90s (now deceased) revealed the earth-shaking "Sabbath is voluntary" message that Joseph Tkach gave in Atlanta, Big Sandy and Pasadena at the end of 1994 was written largely by Herman Hoeh.
Ha! Tonto recommending UCG speakers to rip off (ahhem take cues) off Ron Dart's online sermons might not go as Tonto plans.
But anyone who was in CGI in 80's will appreciate and ponder the irony.
I recall Ron Darts remarks about UCG, 'UCG are anything but United' and 'Pastors in UCG keep inviting me to preach in their congregations, then when other Pastors find out the invite gets retracted. They cannot make their mind up.'
Then Ron Darts sermons about the differing forms of Church of God government including UCG's.
'They ran like headless chickens from one man at the top to many at the top.'
'Every form of Church government organisation is flawed'
And having content writers is not the answer. Although widely known about for years from WCG 'famous names' having ghost writers.
God moves in mysterious ways and i suspect quite a few brethren have suspected for years that 'Mr Smith' never wrote his own sermon, when 'Mr Jones' turned up and preached an identical one the Sabbath before.
You don't have to be a genius, to sense, when a man is rushing through a sermon like a steam train and reading his sermon notes like a telephone directory that he might not have actually wrote it.
Also UCG speakers listening to Ron Dart will only upset them too much as i remember Dart saying '90% of speakers shouldn't be speaking'
Ron Dart was far too straight talking for many.
To Oct 24, 1:31, was JWT as PG such a cripple that he couldn't write his keynote Dec '94 sermon, or his many thought-provoking Personals in WWN? I don't doubt that he was misadvised by Hoeh and the apostate threesome and more in his decision to relax the Sabbath commandment but don't paint him stupider than he really was. After all, how many today in the church are being deceived by their own families and friends into disobedient actions? They will be your witnesses in the day of Judgment!
As for UCG, haven't they learned anything from 1995 or 2010? JWT commissioned the building of church-owned halls just a few years before the massive collapse occurred. And UCG kept lying annually about "how successful" their ministerial conferences were just before they hemorrhaged. Stupid people, take care of your own people (and guests) before you buy them toys.
Lastly, how is that LCG can book 3 Feast sites in Ontario, Canada (in order to maintain social distancing, as if they weren't doing that already) while UCG with all their resources gets the knockout punch as far as their only site is concerned? What? Everyone said "no"? Utterly disgraceful. Even a puny church in Ontario with far fewer resources held a feast.
From what I can tell, Ron Dart jumped ship without God's permission, so he doesn't have my respect. Yes, he was a good speaker, but so what? Womanizer GTA was even better.
Anon 445 What is God's permission exactly?
If I recall correctly, Ron Dart left GTA's church claiming that he has health problems to deal with. This was right before the last GTA scandal hit the press. Did Ron Dart know what was going on, but turned a blind eye to protect his position? Who knows. The generation of leaders from the 60's on are dying off. Much like WW II veterans, it would be nice to get their stories before they died. How many insiders who prowled the fourth floor of the Hall of Administration are still around? I'd like to hear what they might have to say, you know, THE PLAIN TRUTH about the PLAIN TRUTH.
Yeah, well.
I was there when they were shooting "a single man", Everything was in sixties style, dress, cars and gay intercourse on the 4th floor.
It was my moment of finality, closure.
Nck
8.53 AM
What is God's permission?
A Christian is one who follows Christ, remember? Ron Dart didn't follow Christ, rather he followed his personal inclination.
9.41AM
How does starting your own church solve a health problem? It seems a childish excuse.
Anon 8:53
errr so Ron Darts in depth teaching series on Jesus Christ called Life of Christ is to be ignored.
Ron Dart did more to preach and teach Jesus than you have ever done.
1.48 PM
Ron got his bachelor's and master's degree from Ambassador college. This college was highly subsidized by the members tithes. So the church educated him, after which he jumped ship and joined womanizer Ted's church of God in 1978. He did teach about Christ, but not to the members that paid for his education.
October 23, 2020 at 11:16 PM asked... "Is it not perilous for sheep if their shepherd does not have the heart and mind of Jesus Christ, nor even believe in His return? "Concerned Sister"?"
True sheep will recognize that their Shepherd is Jesus Christ. Anyone else professing to be a shepherd representing Him are subject to examination and scrutiny. We are told by Jesus Himself of wheat and tares growing together, with the tares to be plucked out at harvest time. We are also warned repeatedly of false prophets, false teachers, etc. that we are supposed to watch out for. It isn't only those who don't believe in His return that might be the issue though. Most COG ministers at least purport to believe in His return. A bigger problem we have in the COG's however are people wanting to indulge in headline prophesy and falsely claiming to know dates, times, and other details of Christ's return, which has proven over and over again to simply be the speculation and babbling of men, and what I would consider false prophesy. Instead of repenting of this behavior, and calling out those who practice it, we as a movement have largely excused it, turned a blind eye to it, or justified it in the name of being a "watchman" or giving the world a "warning", etc. We see "prophesy" or "God's punishment" in every weather event, solar or lunar eclipse, earthquake, wild fire, drought, flood, act of war, political upheaval, or anything else we might grasp at in order to further our own narrative of events and timing, which most of the time don't end up meaning what we claim it means. Many COG people feed on this stuff and would rather focus on that then focusing on learning to exercise Godly character or learning to love and live in harmony with their fellow Christians.
Proclaiming the true gospel is one thing. Indulging in our own speculations or false narratives of what we think is going to happen, or what we think certain scriptures mean and then promoting those ideas as part of the gospel message we are supposed to be sharing is something else. In crying wolf over and over again we cheapen the name and message of Jesus Christ and we prove that we are just as guilty as any atheist of not taking Him seriously or truly believing in Him, because we seem to forget that we will each be held accountable for every idle word, and every false idea that we twist scripture to promote. And if we do not repent, we will be counted among those who bear false witness, or speak with lying tongues, which God hates.
People are not perfect, and people make mistakes. Growing in grace and knowledge is a process. The danger is stagnation, and the haughty and self righteous attitude that we have all the answers and therefore have earned the right to point fingers at everyone else, while refusing to address our own failings and issues as those who claim to follow Jesus Christ and represent Him to the rest of humanity. While the Bible does speak of scoffers and others who will not take seriously the message of Christ, perhaps we should ask ourselves if we have actually added to the problem through our own hypocrisy, false prophesy, and ungodly lack of love for each other?
Concerned Sister
Wasn't Ron Dart “Born to Lose”?
Didn't Ron Dart join in with GTA's rebellion against GTA's own father HWA? Didn't Ron Dart later rebel against GTA too and go off to try to start his own income stream?
Didn't Ron Dart lose and die in the end?
Evil hearts devise evil thoughts Anon 9:53.
Ronald L Dart was beloved by many brethren and Ministry across all Church of God groups, are you?
Anonymous at 1:01 PM said...“Evil hearts devise evil thoughts Anon 9:53. Ronald L Dart was beloved by many brethren and Ministry across all Church of God groups, are you?”
So, are you saying that it was Ron Dart's evil heart that devised the evil thoughts of rebelling against HWA and the WCG, and trying to attract his own money stream? That a few false brethren and fake ministers might have approved of his selfish rebellion is not surprising.
If you, too, were “born to lose,” then feel free to follow him. If you really believe in his rebellion, are you going to financially support it, or are you just going to praise it with your mouth. A lot of goofballs seem to think that every little rebel is so clever and charismatic, but don't actually want to hand over their money to the bum.
Who died "Anon 7:33" and made you Judge. Being so nice that keeps you going. Sometimes I wonder if the devil himself influences some of the comments on here. So much hate, bitterness and coldness.
Anonymous at 1:02 PM said...“Who died 'Anon 7:33' and made you Judge. Being so nice that keeps you going. Sometimes I wonder if the devil himself influences some of the comments on here. So much hate, bitterness and coldness.”
Question and Answer Session
Q: Who died?
A: Ron Dart died. “Born to Lose” and all that stuff.
Q: Who made you Judge?
A: Some people are simply called and chosen for such a task.
Q: Being so nice that keeps you going?
A: Yes, it is probably my extreme niceness that keeps me going.
Q: Does the devil himself influence some of the comments on here?
A: Yes, no doubt he sent you and your comments.
Q: So much hate, bitterness and coldness.
A: Yes, your hate, bitterness, and coldness toward HWA and the WCG has been noted.
Bitter much ? Keeping insults going on a post about UCG SURVEY RESULTS. I hope readers wonder why.
No-one who knows God the Father and Jesus Christ will ever be afraid of the likes of you and your pathetic accusing insults.
The Household of faith stand strong.
God bless all who put the UCG survey together.
Anonymous at 1:33 PM said...“Keeping insults going on a post about UCG SURVEY RESULTS. I hope readers wonder why.”
Yes, readers will definitely wonder why you keep your insults going on a post about the UCG, and why you keep on trying to resurrect that dead Ron Dart rebel. Your great frustration, anger, and bitterness have been noticed.
Concerned Sister was the one who mentioned Ron Dart.
Get your facts straight and while at it go learn the basic rules of UCG.
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