Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Alex is seems made in Dave's image but does a bang up job talking about his experience with Dave and conclusions drawn. Right out the gate, the curtains match and he keeps his hands on the table. Good job! I suspect, if he wants, he can be Dave's member sucking nemesis.
And David Pack's response to this: "they call me a false prophet, Greg Kaidannek, Brian Kaidannek and (Alex Groen?) are the three evil shepherds who will die consumed by fire this FOT (2020)".
That is Dave's reply to anyone calling him a false prophet. Remember, this man has said repeatedly that anyone who has challenged him has either died or become severely ill. Dave has also declared that he will in the start of this any-day now kingdom erase from the world 7 million gentiles and 2.5 million Israeli Jews who he already has determined are enemies of Jesus Christ.
So is there anything to fear about Dave Pack or is it as easy as Alex put it in this video to not fear Dave and leave? The easy answer to that question isn't all that easy for many of the members of the RCG.
If we are told in Jude to have compassion and make a difference for some and others we are to save with fear pulling them out of the fire there has to be a question asked. That question is; how did the church member(s) get themselves into the fire that they need saved from and just what is this fire?
Those two answers are easy with Dave Pack as the commanding central hub of information that has to be followed completely because "your life depends upon it". Dave Pack constitutes all that what apostasy entails. Jesus Christ says no man knows the day of hour of his return and Dave Pack repeatedly says he knows the day and hour. Jesus Christ says that he came so that they may have life, Dave Pack says that your total allegiance unto him is the only way to have and get life. It is understood by many that Jesus Christ is That Prophet of Deuteronomy and Dave Pack has said that he is That Prophet that the "world needs to hearken unto". Dave Pack claims that he is the rod (twig) out of the root of Jesse of Isaiah 11 and verses 2-5 pertain unto himself. Poor Jesus can only be the little branch and powerless as well.
Dave Pack's greatest apostasy teaching is his demand for "Common" teaching. This is the ultimate "way of Cain" spoken of in Jude 11. The "way of Cain" before he became a murderer was to present an offering of the works of his hands to gain acceptance before the Lord, when from the beginning it was the blood of a lamb that was required. So Dave Pack commands that a procession of people with their arms filled with the work of their hands ("all that you have") must come before him with what he has termed "Christ's price" (their life possessions) to be accepted before God and get eternal life.
So for some, the betrayal of Christ and his blood was 30 pieces of silver, for another it is houses, stocks, bonds, husbands or wives, gold, silver and cash to betray the blood of Christ.
Dave Pack, a false prophet - all yeah! Dave Pack, a great anti-Christ - yes! Dave Pack a grand apostate leading many into apostasy - I see fire everywhere!
Alex is right about Dave Pack: it is hard to recognize a false prophet.
It’s a bit like recognizing a serial killer.. You can’t. That friendly guy living next door, the same guy helping you every so often with stuff like neighbors do, turned out to keep three women in his basement as slaves and the police found eight bodies buried in his back yard.
Evil has his way to disguise itself. But your gut feeling, your instinct, never lies. Because at some point when you see that person, looking at his eyes, you’ll find yourself thinking ‘This feels weird’. You’ll get this uncomfortable feeling.
When you look at Dave Pack’s eyes (and do that! Freeze a video of one of his sermons and enlarge the pic so you can see Dave’s eyes), you will get that same skin crawling feeling: something is really, really wrong!
Former RCG HQ “minister” Alex Groen tries to make it sound like Dave Pack and the RCG were very good at the start, but that they later went bad at some point.
In actual fact, Dave Pack was a nasty tyrant who chewed out, and chewed through, the RCG HQ employees from the very start of his RCG.
In his March 2021 sermon, former RCG HQ “minister” Alex Groen now seems to think that the splintered UCG splinter group is doing a big work on NewsMax.
Yeah, why no more "World to Come" television series? Why build a million-dollar television studio and then shutter it?
For that matter why no more "World Tomorrow" television series? Because it failed that's why. So if Armstrongism is a proven failed money-pit, how insane is it to try a 'rinse & repeat'?
I agree Dennis C Diehl about Alex seemingly been made in Dave's image. The pattern usually is the upstart destroys his leader, pointing out all the ex leaders crimes. Then fast forward a few years and the upstart becomes the new leader ends up worse than the old one.
RCG has always had a revolving door. I saw the evidence of DCP being a power hungry COG leader early on. By 2004 I left. It was much easier to leave RCG, than PCG or WCG. Glad to have escaped them all. The TRUTH shall set you free! All 3 organizations had very little of it.
Former RCG HQ “minister” Alex Groen tries to make it sound like Dave Pack and the RCG were very good at the start, but that they later went bad at some point.
Like so many of these guys, Groen believes that RCG was great when it ordained and hired him. He cannot see that his own ordination and employment were tools Pack used to make RCG an instrument of deceiving and enslaving people.
This hits home for Pack, Flurry and even applies to Herbert Armstrong himself. All elevated themself and crowned themselves as apostles & prophets. They have been greedy and stole tithes to build themselves palaces to their own glory, all the while been shown as being false by their own failed prophecies. They lay grievous burdens on the lay membership and just really do not care about the destruction they cause by their actions.
In his March 2021 sermon, former RCG HQ “minister” Alex Groen tried to make it sound like there were many people getting miraculously healed, or partially healed, in Dave Pack's RCG cult in the earlier years. This sounded interesting. Read more below for some historical perspective on this claim.
Miraculous Protection and Healings in the Restored Church of Pack?
After a tragic shooting in the Living Church of Rod, David C. Pack gave a sermon in which he claimed that the people in his own Restored Church (RCG) would not have such bad things happen to them because they would be in a "circle of protection." He had also claimed that there were many miracles occurring in the RCG, such as demons being cast out, and people being healed of all sorts of things. This made the RCG sound like the one true church where God was working.
Therefore, it was a bit surprising to hear David Pack give a sermon called At the Red Sea, in which he explained that his wife had cancer and that her condition was "absolutely grave." Shortly after, in an even more surprising letter dated July 26, 2007 and called Special Letter Regarding Mrs. Shirley Pack, the self-appointed apostle David Pack announced the death of his wife Shirley M. Pack on Sunday July 22, 2007. She was only 62 years old, and had helped tremendously with typing out all the literature that the RCG had produced. Even in the letter announcing the death of his wife, David Pack wrote that, "We have had many dramatic healings in The Restored Church of God, and all of you regularly hear of them." Strangely, it just did not work out the way one would have expected it to for Shirley, with her being so close to the self-appointed apostle and the center of the "circle of protection" and all that.
Only 19 days after the death of David Pack's wife Shirley, a heavy steel soccer goal weighing approximately 500 pounds fell from a height of about eight feet onto the right side of the face of David Pack's second son Robert Pack, giving him a catastrophic injury. While Robert did survive, some might have expected a little bit more help from the "circle of protection." In fact, some people might fear that the "circle" is actually more like a target marked on the ground, and might want to step outside of the "circle" before a piano falls on them from far above.
On May 4, 2008 David C. Pack married his second wife, Vernia I. Anstey.
People should not be totally surprised if the RCG does not protect them either, or help them to get healed either.
In his March 2021 sermon, former RCG HQ “minister” Alex Groen tried to make it sound like he is not interested in anyone's money, and said that people should save their tithes. Of course, such an expressed lack of interest in other people's money can always change in the future.
While the suggestion that people should save up their tithes might sound right and good, it can be extremely dangerous and discouraging in actual practice. Considering the totally satanic fraud that RCG members have poured their time and energy and money into over the past many years, it seems highly likely that they might just fall for yet another satanic fraud to hand their tithes over to in the future. After all, some people have now financially supported both of Satan's very worst false prophets, Gerald Flurry and David Pack.
Those who thought that they sincerely wanted to support the truth of God but somehow ended up being deceived and tricked into supporting Satan's very worst false prophets could find this fact to be rather difficult and painful to acknowledge. All of their frantic rushing around in circles over the years to end up doing nothing but evil in the end did not really help anyone. In fact, it harmed everyone. Something went strangely very wrong.
The fact that Alex Groen claimed to have looked around at other groups since leaving the RCG and thought that an utterly godless cult like the UCG was doing a big work does not bode well for his future choices. Just because slave-labor cults like the PCG and RCG do not work out well does not mean that utterly godless, lackadaisical cults like the UCG are the answer.
If a former RCG HQ “minister” like Alex Groen who was on the GETTING side of things had a rough time leaving the RCG and ended up “homeless” for 5.5 months and living in hotels, imagine how rough it must be for the little RCG members who were on the GIVING side of things and ended up destitute.
Just so happy and relieved for Alex that he found the courage to leave this money making industry/cult and I pray firstly, that it was not just due to a temper tantrum but to true conviction. Secondly, he now needs to come to realise that his relationship, belief and eventual salvation does not rely on a church but totally on his belief and relationship with his Creator. Of course, belonging to a group or church gives one extra strength, fellowship and an easier knowledge but will not actually alone be your salvation. Alex needs to have the confidence now to step away from all the splinters (no matter what good they seem to be doing - they are cults from the Armstrong cult.) He would continue to be taught very incorrectly just as the RCG splinter did and does. He needs to humble himself and start learning from the ground up - especially if Armstrong's et al warped Gospel is all that he knows. We left RCG after experiencing years swinging between doubt and conviction, so know how difficult the final steps are - but wha joy we have found in doing so and what satisfaction in finding the right way to salvation.
18 comments:
Best COG sermonette ever!
He had the guts to walk away from what he knew was wrong, regardless of financial loss and hardship he and his family faced.
Alex is seems made in Dave's image but does a bang up job talking about his experience with Dave and conclusions drawn. Right out the gate, the curtains match and he keeps his hands on the table. Good job! I suspect, if he wants, he can be Dave's member sucking nemesis.
And David Pack's response to this: "they call me a false prophet, Greg Kaidannek, Brian Kaidannek and (Alex Groen?) are the three evil shepherds who will die consumed by fire this FOT (2020)".
That is Dave's reply to anyone calling him a false prophet. Remember, this man has said repeatedly that anyone who has challenged him has either died or become severely ill. Dave has also declared that he will in the start of this any-day now kingdom erase from the world 7 million gentiles and 2.5 million Israeli Jews who he already has determined are enemies of Jesus Christ.
So is there anything to fear about Dave Pack or is it as easy as Alex put it in this video to not fear Dave and leave? The easy answer to that question isn't all that easy for many of the members of the RCG.
If we are told in Jude to have compassion and make a difference for some and others we are to save with fear pulling them out of the fire there has to be a question asked. That question is; how did the church member(s) get themselves into the fire that they need saved from and just what is this fire?
Those two answers are easy with Dave Pack as the commanding central hub of information that has to be followed completely because "your life depends upon it". Dave Pack constitutes all that what apostasy entails. Jesus Christ says no man knows the day of hour of his return and Dave Pack repeatedly says he knows the day and hour. Jesus Christ says that he came so that they may have life, Dave Pack says that your total allegiance unto him is the only way to have and get life. It is understood by many that Jesus Christ is That Prophet of Deuteronomy and Dave Pack has said that he is That Prophet that the "world needs to hearken unto". Dave Pack claims that he is the rod (twig) out of the root of Jesse of Isaiah 11 and verses 2-5 pertain unto himself. Poor Jesus can only be the little branch and powerless as well.
Dave Pack's greatest apostasy teaching is his demand for "Common" teaching. This is the ultimate "way of Cain" spoken of in Jude 11. The "way of Cain" before he became a murderer was to present an offering of the works of his hands to gain acceptance before the Lord, when from the beginning it was the blood of a lamb that was required. So Dave Pack commands that a procession of people with their arms filled with the work of their hands ("all that you have") must come before him with what he has termed "Christ's price" (their life possessions) to be accepted before God and get eternal life.
So for some, the betrayal of Christ and his blood was 30 pieces of silver, for another it is houses, stocks, bonds, husbands or wives, gold, silver and cash to betray the blood of Christ.
Dave Pack, a false prophet - all yeah! Dave Pack, a great anti-Christ - yes! Dave Pack a grand apostate leading many into apostasy - I see fire everywhere!
Alex is right about Dave Pack: it is hard to recognize a false prophet.
It’s a bit like recognizing a serial killer.. You can’t. That friendly guy living next door, the same guy helping you every so often with stuff like neighbors do, turned out to keep three women in his basement as slaves and the police found eight bodies buried in his back yard.
Evil has his way to disguise itself. But your gut feeling, your instinct, never lies. Because at some point when you see that person, looking at his eyes, you’ll find yourself thinking ‘This feels weird’. You’ll get this uncomfortable feeling.
When you look at Dave Pack’s eyes (and do that! Freeze a video of one of his sermons and enlarge the pic so you can see Dave’s eyes), you will get that same skin crawling feeling: something is really, really wrong!
Date that Dave Pack founded his RCG cult: May 1999.
Dave Pack's first Big Wrong Date Guess: August 31, 2013.
Date on Alex Groen's sermon after leaving the RCG cult: March 25, 2021.
It sounds like Alex Groen left the RCG cult over 6 months ago after having been in the RCG cult for 12 years.
It looks like everyone in the RCG cult should have started to smarten up over 7 years ago.
Former RCG HQ “minister” Alex Groen tries to make it sound like Dave Pack and the RCG were very good at the start, but that they later went bad at some point.
In actual fact, Dave Pack was a nasty tyrant who chewed out, and chewed through, the RCG HQ employees from the very start of his RCG.
In his March 2021 sermon, former RCG HQ “minister” Alex Groen now seems to think that the splintered UCG splinter group is doing a big work on NewsMax.
Actually, that DOOR got SHUT.
Yeah, why no more "World to Come" television series? Why build a million-dollar television studio and then shutter it?
For that matter why no more "World Tomorrow" television series? Because it failed that's why. So if Armstrongism is a proven failed money-pit, how insane is it to try a 'rinse & repeat'?
I agree Dennis C Diehl about Alex seemingly been made in Dave's image.
The pattern usually is the upstart destroys his leader, pointing out all the ex leaders crimes. Then fast forward a few years and the upstart becomes the new leader ends up worse than the old one.
RCG has always had a revolving door. I saw the evidence of DCP being a power hungry COG leader early on. By 2004 I left. It was much easier to leave RCG, than PCG or WCG. Glad to have escaped them all. The TRUTH shall set you free! All 3 organizations had very little of it.
Former RCG HQ “minister” Alex Groen tries to make it sound like Dave Pack and the RCG were very good at the start, but that they later went bad at some point.
Like so many of these guys, Groen believes that RCG was great when it ordained and hired him. He cannot see that his own ordination and employment were tools Pack used to make RCG an instrument of deceiving and enslaving people.
This hits home for Pack, Flurry and even applies to Herbert Armstrong himself. All elevated themself and crowned themselves as apostles & prophets. They have been greedy and stole tithes to build themselves palaces to their own glory, all the while been shown as being false by their own failed prophecies. They lay grievous burdens on the lay membership and just really do not care about the destruction they cause by their actions.
In his March 2021 sermon, former RCG HQ “minister” Alex Groen tried to make it sound like there were many people getting miraculously healed, or partially healed, in Dave Pack's RCG cult in the earlier years. This sounded interesting. Read more below for some historical perspective on this claim.
Miraculous Protection and Healings in the Restored Church of Pack?
After a tragic shooting in the Living Church of Rod, David C. Pack gave a sermon in which he claimed that the people in his own Restored Church (RCG) would not have such bad things happen to them because they would be in a "circle of protection." He had also claimed that there were many miracles occurring in the RCG, such as demons being cast out, and people being healed of all sorts of things. This made the RCG sound like the one true church where God was working.
Therefore, it was a bit surprising to hear David Pack give a sermon called At the Red Sea, in which he explained that his wife had cancer and that her condition was "absolutely grave." Shortly after, in an even more surprising letter dated July 26, 2007 and called Special Letter Regarding Mrs. Shirley Pack, the self-appointed apostle David Pack announced the death of his wife Shirley M. Pack on Sunday July 22, 2007. She was only 62 years old, and had helped tremendously with typing out all the literature that the RCG had produced. Even in the letter announcing the death of his wife, David Pack wrote that, "We have had many dramatic healings in The Restored Church of God, and all of you regularly hear of them." Strangely, it just did not work out the way one would have expected it to for Shirley, with her being so close to the self-appointed apostle and the center of the "circle of protection" and all that.
Only 19 days after the death of David Pack's wife Shirley, a heavy steel soccer goal weighing approximately 500 pounds fell from a height of about eight feet onto the right side of the face of David Pack's second son Robert Pack, giving him a catastrophic injury. While Robert did survive, some might have expected a little bit more help from the "circle of protection." In fact, some people might fear that the "circle" is actually more like a target marked on the ground, and might want to step outside of the "circle" before a piano falls on them from far above.
On May 4, 2008 David C. Pack married his second wife, Vernia I. Anstey.
People should not be totally surprised if the RCG does not protect them either, or help them to get healed either.
THE MISUSE OF TITHE MONEY
In his March 2021 sermon, former RCG HQ “minister” Alex Groen tried to make it sound like he is not interested in anyone's money, and said that people should save their tithes. Of course, such an expressed lack of interest in other people's money can always change in the future.
While the suggestion that people should save up their tithes might sound right and good, it can be extremely dangerous and discouraging in actual practice. Considering the totally satanic fraud that RCG members have poured their time and energy and money into over the past many years, it seems highly likely that they might just fall for yet another satanic fraud to hand their tithes over to in the future. After all, some people have now financially supported both of Satan's very worst false prophets, Gerald Flurry and David Pack.
Those who thought that they sincerely wanted to support the truth of God but somehow ended up being deceived and tricked into supporting Satan's very worst false prophets could find this fact to be rather difficult and painful to acknowledge. All of their frantic rushing around in circles over the years to end up doing nothing but evil in the end did not really help anyone. In fact, it harmed everyone. Something went strangely very wrong.
The fact that Alex Groen claimed to have looked around at other groups since leaving the RCG and thought that an utterly godless cult like the UCG was doing a big work does not bode well for his future choices. Just because slave-labor cults like the PCG and RCG do not work out well does not mean that utterly godless, lackadaisical cults like the UCG are the answer.
David Pack a false profit?? No, no, no! Dave has made much profit with his common doctrine.
To be fair though, Groen said he wasn't saying go to UCG. Just that they were doing more than RCG as far as a "work" goes.
If a former RCG HQ “minister” like Alex Groen who was on the GETTING side of things had a rough time leaving the RCG and ended up “homeless” for 5.5 months and living in hotels, imagine how rough it must be for the little RCG members who were on the GIVING side of things and ended up destitute.
Just so happy and relieved for Alex that he found the courage to leave this money making industry/cult and I pray firstly, that it was not just due to a temper tantrum but to true conviction. Secondly, he now needs to come to realise that his relationship, belief and eventual salvation does not rely on a church but totally on his belief and relationship with his Creator. Of course, belonging to a group or church gives one extra strength, fellowship and an easier knowledge but will not actually alone be your salvation. Alex needs to have the confidence now to step away from all the splinters (no matter what good they seem to be doing - they are cults from the Armstrong cult.) He would continue to be taught very incorrectly just as the RCG splinter did and does. He needs to humble himself and start learning from the ground up - especially if Armstrong's et al warped Gospel is all that he knows.
We left RCG after experiencing years swinging between doubt and conviction, so know how difficult the final steps are - but wha joy we have found in doing so and what satisfaction in finding the right way to salvation.
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