The only people we know for sure that are emissaries of the evil one are these current self-appointed leaders of the Philadelphia Church of "god", Restored Church of "god", Church of "god" Preaching The Kingdom, and the improperly named "continuing" Church of "god". These spiritual despots have been wreaking spiritual havoc for years on venerable, gullible, and blinded COG members who think they're doing what God expects of them. God never intends for any follower of The Way to be involved in these sickening personality cults where their spiritual lives are being ruined by men with serious mental issues!
Anyway, let's look at the Great Bwana's doubly blessed brain in action:
06/18/21 a.m. Satan's assistants ("the devil ... he is a liar and the father of it," John 8:44) at the Banned by HWA site do not want people to believe my 06/17/21 p.m. post.
So, let's look at some of their false statements and point out the truth. Here is a lie that Gary Leonard (its webmaster), started a post off with last night:
It's a hot day in California, and in more ways than one. Our favorite self-appointed dreamy prophet and Great Bwana to Africa and 299 Caucasians, who was kicked out of the Living Church of God by Rod Meredith ...
No, Dr. Meredith did NOT kick me out. It was I who left because of broken promises by him and others to correct doctrinal, historical, and prophetic errors he and the then other LCG evangelists agreed to correct, as well as other integrity problems in LCG. (Plus I could not accept the falling away change, which Richard Ames agreed to look at with me on October 8, 2012).
Anyway, all the top leadership of the Living Church of God know full well I was not kicked out--but left 12-28-12 after receiving an outrageous and inappropriate email from Dr. Meredith (see Roderick C. Meredith's Accusatory Letter to Bob Thiel).
Gary Leonard cannot get over the fact that it was I who “kicked out” LCG, not the other way around. If he and others at his libelous site would stop repeating the lie I was kicked out of LCG, I would not feel the desire to sometimes comment about it.
Those naturopathic knickers are in a major organic twist right now! Whoa Boy!
The Great Bwana goes on to post comments from two LCG men who apparently had no ability to discern liars in the midst of the brethren. If these two guys were actually men of God they would have immediately spoke out against the self-righteous wanna-be "prophet" who was trying to make a name for himself in the Living Church of God. But no, they did not. They like others in the LCG were so incredibly deluded that they joined in the chorus of fools, whom Thiel claims, called him a prophet. Using Jim Meredith as a source for support is not the swiftest thing to do, considering the track record that Jim Meredith has with LCG members.
Dear Dr. Thiel,
I am very sorry to see you... leaving the Living Church of God.
In Christ's service,
Jeffrey Fall
Later in that same evening, even Jim Meredith (son of Dr. Meredith) emailed me and asked me to reconsider and come back. Here are some excerpts:
Bob, as you know, we have never really seen eye to eye. ... But now you have made a potentially fatal error; ... You obviously took no time to fast and pray about dad’s response ...
Bob, please take the time to carefully, and prayerfully consider what you are doing, and where you are headed. You are a bright, intelligent man, with a great potential ...
If you rebel against the government that God has put in place on this earth, and the leaders He and Christ have chosen, you will not be there at Christ’s return. ...
In Christian Love,
Jim Meredith
Living Church of God
Jim Meredith, who was partially behind the 12-28-12 letter to me that Dr. Meredith sent, fully realized that I left, NOT that I was kicked out. As far as rebellion against God's government, I assert it is those in LCG that do not accept how GOD works. They are looking to men above God--that is something that Dr. Meredith himself warned about when he was part of the old Radio Church of God (Meredith RC. Second Commandment. Plain Truth, March 1960, p. 27).
Bwana Bob also popped a cork over being mocked about the nightmares he continues to have that he sees as proof of his legitimacy. Because the scriptures mention dreams, Bwana Bob believes that those scriptures pertain to him and legitimize his apostasy and rebellion against church government - at least the Armstrongite version of whatever "church government" means.
Gary Leonard's post also included the following:
Having nightmares and dreaming up fantastical stories to prove your legitimacy does not make on a prophet either.
Public/official 'prophet' recognition by LCG was NOT a factor in my choosing to leave--particularly since ALL the then LCG HQ evangelists stated that God might consider me to be a prophet. This was also directly confirmed to me by Dr. Doug Winnail in September 2012 and after I left in January 2013 (and that 2013 time was in writing).
It is a FACT that not ALL LCG evangelists thought Bob might be a prophet. If any of them thought that then it is proof that these guys were not real ministers.
As far as the "nighmare" crack goes, the word of God says that God speaks to prophets in dreams in Numbers 12:6 (for more on that, check out the article: Dreams, the Bible, the Radio Church of God, and the Continuing Church of God).
I can state for a fact that God is no more channeling dreams and visions into Bob's mind than he is into Dave Pack's mind. The fact that COG members fall for this schtick is appalling and shows how little Biblical understanding they have about the New Covenant and the role of Christ in the church. But, why should they since they all deny the guy?
Bwana Bob ends with this as a direct rebuke to ALL who refuse to acknowledge him as a true prophet and the one true leader of the one true Philadelphia Church:
Consider that the Apostle Paul wrote:
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:20-21, KJV)
Hopefully, you, the reader, take those scriptures seriously and have not despised prophesies and have truly PROVEN what you believe on this. If so you can actually be one who will "hold fast that which is good," which includes the truth about me and the prophet matter.
Of course, many will choose not to believe the truth or be sufficiently diligent to "prove all things," but will instead love and believe a lie--even though the Bible warns against that (Revelation 22:15).
You can read the rest of Thiel's hilarious, self-serving, "look at how important I am" temper tantrum here.
41 comments:
Bob Thiel has to be the creepiest whiney little weasel that the church has had in ages. Mr. Meredith was right in kicking him out of the church so he could not cause more damage than he already had. LCG members were glad to see him get his comeuppance.
I do not know Bob and have never heard nor read a prophecy that came from him. Thus IMO he has yet to demonstrate that he is a prophet. On the other hand, I have never read nor heard anything that is morally wrong with Bob. He seems sincere though perhaps deluded.
This site however has taken an overly negative and heavy view of Bob and makes me wonder why he is such a target compared to the many others that claim to be the leader of the COG movement.
If 'Banned' were to concentrate on exposing a false prophecy given by Bob, then you all will have more credibility instead of coming across as a bully by attacking the individual. In my mind, Bob has destroyed his credibility by proclaiming a European superstate that will attack the U.S.A. etc. HWA got this all wrong. He was also wrong in determining which nation(s), are Babylon. These issues and others can be rebuked without hammering Bob to a 'cross'.
Well do I remember when Bob departed from LCG. Reviewing the flurry of postings and correspondence, there seem to be a few parallels with previous places in COG history.
Bob's departure, and starting his own COG are a bit like HWA/CG7. The sudden appearance of "CCOG" suggests this was, to some extent, in progress, at least in planning, some time before Bob's going. HWA's Eugene ministry was also in a position to become independent at short notice.
And like GTA/WCG, where it was better, for a while, to keep GTA under control inside the WCG, some of RCM's words and apparent actions seem to show he thought Bob, under control, within the LCG would be better than him leaving - one way or the other.
I know, there are varying points of view, and the truth in such matters are mixed in shades of gray...
Jim Meredith wrote: “If you rebel against the government that God has put in place on this earth, and the leaders He and Christ have chosen, you will not be there at Christ’s return.”
Seriously?! How can he be so presumptuous to know who will and will not be at Christ’s coming?! His assertion sounds like a Papist exclaiming the Papacy is the Kingdom of God on earth and to disobey the Pontiff is to disobey God Himself! Such cultish talk.
not sure why you take such pleasure in provoking Dr. Bob....
he's probably the most benign of all the splinters...he certainly doesn't take advantage of anyone, what he teaches is as accurate, and maybe a bit more so, than most...and I'm talking about legitimate groups, not those such as Pack/Flurry and the other similar orgs...(maybe that scares you and you need to try to discredit him for your own sense of well being)
sure, he goes off on this prophet thing, which those looking to follow a man might latch onto, but I think most look past that and simply read his doctrinal material, which is quite good.
you just make yourselves look silly by constantly attacking him...
Gotta say this about Thiel, I love his courage in calling out Banned blog as liars.
Bob gets crap because of his claim of being a PROPHET , and the sole leader of the Church on Earth. Anyone who makes a claim of a Biblical Title, or Bible Character is a danger, crackpot, and sociopath.
That is why guys like Flurry , Pack, Thiel, Weinland and the deceased James Malm deserve such ridicule and examination. They center their entire religion around themselves and their narcissistic ego trips.
Even HWA, who had many issues, and called himself an Apostle, Zerubabel, Elijah etc, and other nutty concepts, eschewed calling himself a prophet, in spite of constantly making predictions (which did not come about).
what he teaches is as accurate...
That is rather non-specific, and my major disagreement with Bob iss in areas of Biblical understanding, exegesis and eschatology, as well as in non-theological domains. He may well be the "best" in describing his grasp of what someone labeled "Neo-Armstrongism" - and no, I don't mean the person with the moniker "NEO".
The most general areas of general criticism in Banned have been in his presentation - speaking, layout, sticking topic, choice of topics... I can't really add much to that other than I'd hoped he would take our advice.
Three bad mistranslations: 1. “Feasts” in Lev 23:2 should be “fixed times” as in the Tanakh. There are only three feasts – Ex 23:14-16; 2Chr 8:13. The other days in Lev 23 are sabbaths. 2. “Drew on” in Luke 23:54-KJV should be “began to grow light”. The 14th, the day Christ died, is a sabbath because it is the first day of unleavened bread and not a separate feast (see mistranslation number 1) and began to grow light because darkness was leaving the land (Luke 23:44). The sabbath the next day, the 15th, was the weekly sabbath and a high day of the Jews, their passover. Jesus died on Friday. The three days and nights when Jesus was buried were in whole or part: the 3 days were calendar numbered days, part 14th, all of 15th, part 16th. The nights were a few minutes of darkness Friday afternoon, Friday night, part or all of Saturday night. Consider Mark 14:30: a day and night are at the same time. 3. “Change” of the law should be “removing” in Heb 7:12. The Greek word for “change” is translated “removing”-KJV in Heb 12:27. The law ended, was disannulled (verse 18) because it was associated with the Levitical Priesthood which ended (verse 11). But it’s thought the law transferred to a previous (tithing) law under the Melchisedec Priesthood. However there has never been a commandment to tithe to the Melchisedic Priesthood. Jacob and Abraham historical tithing accounts are not commandments of God to tithe. I predict the COGs, and BT, will never accept the above truths and repent until Christ returns because they’ve been too brainwashed, “corrupted”, by Herbert Armstrong who called himself an apostle of Jesus Christ but there are only 12 – Rev 21:14.
"Bob gets crap because of his claim of being a PROPHET , and the sole leader of the Church on Earth. "
so does the pope, but I don't see anyone here ridiculing him....
I think Bob Thiel needs to keep more laws of God the more keeps the more God will reveal to him and the more of this that happens he get a great reward if a brother Thiel keeps striving for the kingdom.
I think the only flaw I see in Bob Thiel is that he doesn't have enough Herbert Armstrong, he has too much of Rod Meredith if he betrays Herbert Armstrong, he will lose all salvation.
I know Bob personally and he is a decent fellow. I cannot, however, follow him because he is a blatant liar. On this page, Thiel says "In 2006, Charles Bryce who was in GCG/LCG left". That is a lie and Thiel knows it. Charles Bryce was violently expelled from LCG and accused of collaborating with Satan. But Thiel wants to discredit Bryce by lumping him in with everyone else who actually did leave. If Thiel even implied that LCG was wrong, that might legitimize Bryce, and Thiel can't have that, thus the lie.
Thiel did a similar thing with Ted Armstrong when he stated on this page that Ted left WCG. Wrong. Ted was violently thrust out Thiel knows it. Everyone who has actually looked into Ted's 1978 disfellowshipment (including Thiel) knows that Ted was wrongly disfellowshipped in 1978. While it is true that Ted was a adulterer, 1978 was totally political and corrupt. But once again, Thiel has to discredit GTA with a lie in order to delegitimize any claim that GTA might have been the rightful heir to HWA. Thiel has to discredit anyone other than himself that might have such a claim, even if he has to lie to do so.
so does the pope, but I don't see anyone here ridiculing him....
Duh! Read the title of the blog:
Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement
The focus of the blog is Armstrongism, not Christianity or religion in general.
"Bob gets crap because of his claim of being a PROPHET, and the sole leader of the Church on Earth. Anyone who makes a claim of a Biblical Title, or Bible Character is a danger, crackpot, and sociopath. "
I knew Bob when he was in LCG before he was kicked out. My wife and I even spent a lot of time with his family for dinner and at other events. One thing that became abundantly clear to us over the years was Bob's need to have his ego stroked. He was always seeking admiration and accolades from others for being a man with great spiritual insights. Even as he was getting his ego stroked he was always insecure about himself and easily bruised when people did not react to him in the way he thought they should. It was always important to him to be seen and heard. Those of us around him a lot quickly learned that much of his "knowledge" was superficial and had no depth, even his spiritual insights. It is important to Bob to give the impression he is a font of wisdom who can quickly rattle off fact after fact. Try and delve deeper into what he teaches and you will get nothing of substance, particuraly when it comes to scriptural principles.
Bob never discussed Christ much but he sure filled us in on how the law should be kept, how prophecy was to be "correctly" interpreted, and how the church had lost its way. He saw himself as the man to restore truth to the church that he thought was missing. Every time Mr. Merdith ignored his demands, his fragility made him even angrier. Bob tries to portray himself as a dynamic force of nature in the church when in fact, he is a very fragile person and can get his ego bruised rather quickly.
Bob was just like Mr. Meredith in planning his church before LCG ever kicked him out. It was not a result of a spur-of-the-moment fit with Mr. Merdith not changing doctrinal stances to meet Bob's demands. Bob knew Mr. Meredith was not going to do such a thing and has used it to his advantage to spin a story that most of us in LCG know is pure fantasy mixed with half-truths. Bob's half-truths are a carefully crafted persona that is meant to cast him always in perpetual light and to make those who disagree with him the enemy, or as he said the other day, "Satan's assistants". There is darkness to his soul and I would tell anyone halfway interested in his group to stay as far away as possible.
We shouldn't judge people like Bob Thiel, his group has some people who are in God's church and other God's churches too, but the thing is he's out of the RCG God can only work through one man at a time, trust us Herbert Armstrong because any church continues what he does is a big sign that they could be the true church.
Tedius.
Bob Thiel is the official COG "Karen"
Could Herbert Armstrong ever have imagined that he would be the grandfather of a bastard splinter group led by a Karen?
Repent Anonymous at 2:47 PM!
2:47. Hilarious! The best name for Bob yet.
Anon 4:44 Pm no he's got to repent because he slandered one of God's servants.
There seem to be a few anonymous trolls that add nothing except empty promotions for HWA and various COGleaders. If troll(s) keep dropping in, could they please tell us why they are bent on pushing HWA as God's man?
Question to Anon 1205, if "other God's churches" means "God's other churches", indicating God has more than one "true Church" how can He work through one man at a time? And His "one man" now is?
Bob is not a prophet, he is a god. The CCoG worships him.
Personally after watching some of Bob's sermons, I feel he did not learn much in Spokesman's Club. SPS "Today I am going to cover tithing, holydays, abortion, clean and unclean meats, the rise of Barron Von Fancy Pants in prophecy, white flour and why evolution is wrong."
I doubt very much of Bob ever completed Spokesman Club considering what a poor speaker he is.
"Anon 4:44 Pm no he's got to repent because he slandered one of God's servants"
Bob Thiel is NOT a prophet of God. That is an absolute fact. He is not an Amos, an Elijah, an Elisha, a Joshua, or any other demonic name he wants to call himself. Most doubt he is even a Christian.
Hoss wrote: "There seem to be a few anonymous trolls that add nothing except empty promotions for HWA and various COGleaders. "
What you are seeing is just the tip of the iceberg lately. There are at least 60 comments sitting in the spam folder now. The crazies come in waves and we are in one right now. Total nutjobs.
Bob gets crap because of his claim of being a PROPHET , and the sole leader of the Church on Earth. Anyone who makes a claim of a Biblical Title, or Bible Character is a danger, crackpot, and sociopath.
That is why guys like Flurry , Pack, Thiel, Weinland and the deceased James Malm deserve such ridicule and examination. They center their entire religion around themselves and their narcissistic ego trips.
Even HWA, who had many issues, and called himself an Apostle, Zerubabel, Elijah etc, and other nutty concepts, eschewed calling himself a prophet, in spite of constantly making predictions (which did not come about).
Tonto June 19, 2021 at 8:26 AM
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Tonto methinks HWA was hesitant to refer to himself a prophet because he was well aware of the Biblical punishment of a false prophet ie death (Deut 18:20-22). Yet, by the mere fact he chose to make declarations predicting this or that would happen in the name of God Almighty and they all failed he proved himself to be a false prophet just like if his predictions came true he would have been proven a prophet. So just because he didn't attach the title "prophet" to himself doesn't mean he wasn't acting like a prophet ie prophesying in the name of God since he most certainly was. And hence it's no surprise to see all HWA built gone with the wind due to his false predictions or false prophecies (Ezekiel 14:9).
I'm not 1205 but trolls dropping in Hoss? C'mon Hoss get real, this blog is constantly monitored by all the COG's groups.
Banned not so long ago did love to brag about how many thousands are reading.
I doubt very much of Bob ever completed Spokesman Club
Bob mentioned how his speech attacking football was not well received...
When I was in Spokesman's Club, the minister was either in competition with other ministers or needed men to graduate to get on the sermonette list.
In one speech, I juggled some display items around like Bob does with booklets and other materials - the minister really tore into me over that, and wrote "get rid of the junk" on my evaluation report.
As an evaluator I failed one guy's speech for going off topic like Bob, but the minister overruled that, "Because I want him to graduate this year".
Who is this Jackass Jim Meredith? Is it one of Rod's sons? Well, it sounded like he is all in on the phoney baloney church government bandwagon. Some of these losers who draw a big paycheck and never have had to swing a hammer or burn a calorie of physical work need to be forced to go get a real job rather than rest on the nepotism route.
Trolls are easily recognized, I have found. I think they are different on different blogs. On this blog they fit a pattern. Herewith, the Seven Characteristics of Trollery:
1. The comment is short - maybe one or two lines.
2. Their comments have no substance. There is no debate or logic. Just a banal but provoking partisan statement or an ad hominem attack.
3. If you respond to their comments, they usually do not respond back. But if they do respond it is not constructive debate - just more provocative banalities.
4. Their grammar, syntax and educational level seems to be poor but not always.
5. They are always, always anonymous.
6. Many of them seem to be conversant with Armstrongism but do not display any kind of considerate or religious attitude. My guess is that those in this category are fringers even within the Armstrongist movement.
7. Their purpose, like children, is to pull the lever and see something "fun" happen - lights and noise. They are not to be taken seriously. They are just lurkers who want to stir the pot.
Thanks to or moderator we are shielded from the great volume of these time wasters.
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You love to talk about Mr. Bob Thiel (peace be upon him), but you don't look how like you're rude to God's church, they also have feelings. And you guys act like someone who sticks up for the plain truth is the bad guy.
Anon 848
First of all, thank you for following up on NEO's guidelines for detecting Trolls, by giving a simple example. Well done!
For all the comments about Bob Thiel, I've heard stronger, harsher language used in Spokesman's Club evaluations! I remember one that was so direct, the speaker never came to club again!
Some of us are just giving Bob fair and honest critique - of his presentations, quality, content, disagreement over interpretation, and so on. When I get such critique about myself, I'll try to look at it for what it's worth, and sometimes correct my own errors. Again, the kind of stuff you're supposed to learn in Spokesman's Club - not to whine and retaliate. Taking it out on the messenger can cause one to ignore the message.
Again, thanks, Anon 848, for your helpful example of what to look for to spot a Troll.
"And you guys act like someone who sticks up for the plain truth is the bad guy."
BINGO!...and double BINGO if it's a truth that HWA preached.
if you notice, anything biblical, they are against.....anything Catholic/Protestant, they are for...(nominal christianity makes no real demands on anyone...but God does)
Perhaps people who write short comments are being direct and have a life as compared to the professional bloggers who seem to take a great deal of time in massively long and somewhat boring comments.
If you have moved on, why bloggers on here you have to spend sooooo much time being stuck in a 1965-1974 time warp.
They seem to like wallowing in misery.
Anonymous (12:34)
The people I am referring to (trolls) have short comments because they have nothing to say. Their terseness and directness do not avail them of anything. There are no professional bloggers here that I know of. If something is massively long or boring you don't have to read it - just like I skip over the sound bite crowd - it's a free market. Your second sentence is a syntactical mystery. Armstrongism, in some quarters, is worse now than in 1965-1975. People are having their lives destroyed by Neo-Armstrongism (Thanks, Hoss). Somebody needs to say something.
Certainly you can admit that trolls exist? Maybe you are one. If so, alas, you caught me.
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"'And you guys act like someone who sticks up for the plain truth is the bad guy'"
I think it depends on what that guy's "plain truth" actually is.
An interesting contrast, Anon 1015, anti-biblical, pro-Catholic/Protestant. Some of the contributors to the local newspaper's "Faith" column do seem to push that.
Bob is a type of the hundreds of nutty ACOG splinter leaders. He is easy to discern. The others are skilled in guile and hiding their true nature.
Why the 1965 to 1975 time warp? Because of the nature of the human mind. People never fully recover from significant emotional abuse. It's the norm with people who have been in front line combat. Decades later they are still woken up in the middle of the night by their experiences.
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -George Santayana
And we see people still repeating the past, grimly augmented sometimes, in Splinterdom. That is why this blog has relevance.
I had an uncle, now deceased, who fought all over the South Pacific in WWII. He came home with a Japanese Arisaka rifle and a wounded psyche. The experience never left him. After he retired he took a spare room in his house and converted it to what his family called "The War Room." On the walls he had memorabilia, both Japanese and Allied, of the Pacific Theater. He had photos taken from the wallet of a dead Japanese. His family thought it was all strange. He had a really bad war experience. He just couldn't beat it.
There are people like that in the ex-Armstrongist community. Some seem to make a clean separation and roll on to other things. And some just can't beat it. Writing their thoughts is self-affirming. It helps them to process out of Armstrongism. As far as I am concerned they can write as much as they want. Only the moderator can and should manage that issue.
It should be stated that there are people, happily Armstrongist today, who if they ever awakened to reality and left Armstrongism would find unforeseen PTSD awaiting them. Leaving Armstrongism is not a point-in-time transaction if you were a true believer. You will deal with it for years, dramatically or subtly. Then you will understand why some people don't communicate with blithe sound bites. Even worse, leave Armstrongism and become a Christian. The discrepancies are stark. You really don't know how bad it is until you have left it.
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