For some reason, old news stories about UCG have been popping up in my newsfeed from Google. This one deserves some air time again. It was written by Mike Caputo a UCG minister around the time that the split with COGWA happened.
What I find so interesting is the complete hypocrisy in the points below. Caputo, along with every other minister that left the Worldwide Church of God was guilty of every single thing he posted below. He rebelled against authority when he joined up with those that conspired for months prior to form a breakaway group that was planned so well that they all kept their income stream rolling in after they apostatized from the mother church.
Why did he refuse to submit to church authority, no matter how imperfect it was, when he joined up with Kubik and the other boys to form UCG?
1. I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO BREAK MY FATHER'S HEART, ONE MORE TIME
We are God’s family. Our loving Father detests seeing divisions in His family. God demands that problems within His family be solved, whatever it takes and whatever amount of time it might take. His heart has been broken many times since Lucifer created havoc in God's family and has continued to be broken unto our days.
The Bible tells us that God hates divorce. Why? Because of the turmoil that ensues. Because of the damage that ensues, especially to the children. How much more so within God's own family; how much more so with God’s children.
Going along with people who cause divisions without sufficient and justifiable reasons means causing turmoil and anguish for the many. It means tormenting and damaging the minds of God’s children, and, consequently. it means adding pain to our Father's mind. I will have no part of that.
I will not break my Father’s heart, one more time.
I will not leave United!
2. I WILL NOT BE GUILTY OF ADDING MORE WOUNDS AND MORE TEARS TO CHRIST’S BODY.
There is a reason why the Church is called, "The Body of Christ." It is something that is precious and dear to Him. It is His spiritual body.
Too many people through the ages have carelessly dared to tear at and wound that precious body. Too many people have cut it asunder and have done so with, at times, the most absurd and deplorable excuses.
I will not be guilty of such a terrible mistake.
Before Christ died, He made it clear in His prayer found in John 17 that unity in His body was of the utmost importance to Him. Please pay careful attention to His intense and heartfelt words which He prayed with great intensity before He was killed.
John 17 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me that they may be one as We are.
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; (You and me) 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
This is how much Jesus Christ longed, and still longs, for unity in His body.
I will value and honor Christ’s wish and prayer and will I not be guilty of adding another tear and another wound to my Savior’s Body.
I will not leave United!
It is amazing that Caputo had no problem adding more wounds and tearing apart the "body of Christ" when he convinced countless Canandainas to apostatize with him when he went with United. Typical ministerial hypocrisy.
3. I WILL NOT LEAVE UNITED BECAUSE I WANT TO FOLLOW THE ARCHANGEL MICHAEL’S EXAMPLE, NOT LUCIFER’S.
From the start, Michael proved to be totally faithful and committed to God. No matter what logical-sounding and righteous-sounding reasons Lucifer presented, Michael understood the critical dimension of respect for Divine authority and humbly submitted to it.
We know that Lucifer deceived 1/3 of the angels and that they finally even dared to rebel against the Almighty. Michael stood firm and fought for God. The book of Judegives us a hint of the kind of extraordinary character this Archangel had all along.
Jude 1: 8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
This scripture is of such profound implication that it bears a close analysis.
Michael, superior to Satan, dared not bring against him a railing accusation.
Why? Because Satan, in spite of his evil character, has been allowed by God to retain a position of authority as King of this world and as ruler over the rebellious angels and, though Satan according to Scriptures is evil, and a deceiver, and a false accuser, and a sower of discord, and a sower of turmoil and according to Christ, a liar and a murderer, Michael submitted to God’s wishes and left the judgment to God. “The Lord rebuke you!” He said. May God judge you, Satan, not I.
I refuse to stand in judgment of God’s appointed leaders. It is God’s duty to judge them, not I.
The people Jude condemns, though infinitely less important than Michael, did dare, instead, to “reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries”.
I dare not reject authority and speak evil of authority figures or follow people who do.
I will follow Michael's example, not Lucifer's.
I will stay in United!
"Jude 1: 8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries." Caputo rejected the authority of the mother church to do what he wanted instead of following the authority he claimed to follow when he was ordained. As he was defecting to UCG he spoke evil of the Worldwide Church of God and of the Tkach's. More ministerial hypocrisy. Caputo did this just like the dreamer Bob Thiel did when he apostatized from the WCG and then from Living Church of God.
4. I REFUSE TO LEAVE UNITED BECAUSE I REFUSE TO FOLLOW KORAH’S EXAMPLE.
You know the story; Korah and a few others within the congregation of Israel rebelled against Moses, God’s chosen leader.
Korah did not want any authority over himself. Korah led a rebellion against God’s anointed. He criticized the authority appointed by God. His words sounded noble and sanctimonious: More power to the people; honor and respect for all; equality in the congregation.
“You take too much upon yourselves, for all the congregation is holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them. Why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the LORD?” (Numbers 16:3)
If you read the story carefully you will find that in the end Korah had succeeded in causing so much anger, so much resentment and so much turmoil within the congregation that all of Israel finally stood up against Moses. This is the power of a Satan-inspired rebel. God, though, saw; God judged and intervened dramatically to purge Israel of the rebels. God will do the same with other rebels who dare do the same, if their motives are the same as Korah's.
JUDE 1: 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
Korah, his close assistants, and many others were destroyed.
This was the end result of Korah’s rebellion against God’s anointed and his "disregard" for peace and unity. Rebelling against God's appointed authorities can lead not only to temporary destruction but to eternal destruction, if not repented of.
I will follow Moses’ example and I refuse to follow Korah's example!
I am staying in United!
Yet, Caputo followed the satan led rebellion against the WCG to join up with some of the most corrupt men in the COG movement. Caputo was a modern day Korah.
5. I WILL NOT LEAVE UNITED BECAUSE I WANT TO FOLLOW DAVID’S EXAMPLE, NOT KING SAUL’S EXAMPLE.
Initially, King Saul’s example was one of humility, but his attitude took a serious turn for the worse and he became rebellious and justified his attitude with absurd rationalizations.
In 1 Samuel 15 Saul is told by Samuel to “attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them.”
What did he do, instead?
9 But Saul and the people spared Agag and the best of the sheep, the oxen, the fatlings, the lambs, and all that was good, and were unwilling to utterly destroy them.
What was God’s response?
I Samuel 1510 Now the word of the LORD came to Samuel, saying, 11 “I greatly regret that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from following Me, and has not performed My commandments.” And it grieved Samuel, and he cried out to the LORD all night. 13 Then Samuel went to Saul, and Saul said to him, “Blessed are you of the LORD! I have performed the commandment of the LORD.”14 But Samuel said, “What then is this bleating of the sheep in my ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?”15 And Saul said, “They have brought them from the Amalekites; for the people spared the best of the sheep and the oxen, to sacrifice to the LORD your God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.”16 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Be quiet! And I will tell you what the LORD said to me last night.”And he said to him, “Speak on.”17 So Samuel said, “When you were little in your own eyes, were you not head of the tribes of Israel? And did not the LORD anoint you king over Israel? 18 Now the LORD sent you on a mission, and said, ‘Go, and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are consumed.’ 19 Why then did you not obey the voice of the LORD? Why did you swoop down on the spoil, and do evil in the sight of the LORD?”20 And Saul said to Samuel, “But I have obeyed the voice of the LORD, and gone on the mission on which the LORD sent me, and brought back Agag king of Amalek; I have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. 21 But the people took of the plunder, sheep and oxen, the best of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice to the LORD your God in Gilgal.”
Noble and sanctimonious-sounding, indeed. but what did God think?
22 So Samuel said:“Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,As in obeying the voice of the LORD?Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,And to heed than the fat of rams.
And now one of the most important scriptures in the Bible…
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.Because you have rejected the word of the LORD,He also has rejected you from being king.”
It's funny how he can quote this verse to justify his reason for not leaving uCG when he did not care about this scripture when he left WCG.
Would the merciful God have forgiven Saul, if he had deeply repented? Without any doubt.
What did he do instead? He rationalized his actions with "sanctimonious" excuses.
This is the spirit I believe I see in some of the main culprits of the present division. I see a disregard for God’s authority accompanied by rationalizations (Logical sounding but empty excuses).
A man who held a very high position within the foreign work of UCG was told not long ago to appear before the COE to clarify some issues and not go on a planned trip to visit congregations in foreign lands. He refused to do so because, and I quote his words, “It would have been a waste of money.” (How noble sounding…). When consequenced for his defiant attitude he did not acknowledge his serious error and, rather than repent, this is what he said:
"Since Roy stated that it was a Council 'request' that I cancel the trip and appear before them the next week I decided that I would continue with my plans. The Council did not order me to appear before them—they only requested it.” (Emphasis Mine).
Sound familiar? This is Saul’s attitude all the way.
Let me now quote the concluding remarks of this man’s email to our President:
“Denny, I hope that a way can be found to move back from this confrontation. I am willing to work with you on this. I believe that the starting point is for you to reinstate me as Regional Director. The Spanish ministry want this—in fact they insist on it. I do not see how we can prevent the inevitable (which no one wants!) unless I am reinstated.” (Emphasis mine).
Translation: You COE either submit to our will or we will leave.
Not only a rebellious spirit of Saul coupled with rationalizations, but demands and veiled threats.
Thank God our leadership stood its ground. Woe unto any ruling body of any organization that caves in to a spirit of rebellion on the part of its subordinates.
On the other hand, there is David. He submitted to one of the most evil, cruel, unjust, unfair, calloused and demonic men that ever lived.
The present disaffected group talks about abuse of authority and the right to cause a traumatic division because of it. What did David do, under "undeniable" abuse of authority?
David had been ordained by God to be the next King. He could have had lots of reasons to say, “This man is unjust with God’s people; he abuses God’s people; he is evil; he has left God; he is demon possessed; he deserves to die and it is my duty to God’s people to get rid him.”
He, instead, refused to dishonor God by rebelling against His anointed.
He waited on God to deal with Saul, as He saw fit.
Unlike Saul, He passed the great test.
Now let me read to you the words of Fred Kellers, a UCG minister who clearly has David’s heart. This is what he had to say:
“I've not always agreed with the council but I have always agreed that we have chosen to ask Jesus to guide us as a group, either through the General Conference of Elders for some items and through the Council of Elders for other things. If I don't agree with the council, I have ethical ways to show my disagreement. I can also fast and trust Jesus Christ to be the head of his body. What I don't have the option of doing is causing division and upset. My job is to help lead His sheep beside the still waters.”
This is David’s heart. This is the heart I want to emulate. I want to emulate the one who dares not rebel against
God’s appointed authority, not the one who openly rebelled and then dared to rationalize his actions with absurd rationalizations.
This is one more reason why I will not leave United!
6. I WILL NOT LEAVE UNITED BECAUSE THE WORDS OF THE APOSTLE PAUL ARE MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN THE WORDS OF OTHER SELF-APPOINTED SAVIORS OF THE CHURCH.
Paul reflected the wishes of Christ. Paul demanded that Christians and Christian leaders reflect the wishes of Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:10" Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."
Caputo and UCG had no problem causing division before, so why the self-righteous indignation at COGWA?
Why?
1 Corinthians 12:12 "For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ."
Strive to be perfectly joined together, because we are the body of Christ.
What is the real cause of most divisions, according to Paul? Is it noble- sounding reasons? Is it a “seeming” love of justice and righteousness?
1 Corinthians 3:3 "For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?"
Carnality, is the major reason for strife and divisions, not spirituality.
What should be our response to people that cause divisions within Christ's Body?
Romans 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.
I know who is presently causing divisions in the Body and I, in obeying Paul's injunction, have chosen to avoid them. I want to heed Paul's words and I refuse to follow anyone who causes strife, offenses and divisions.
I will not leave United!
7. I REFUSE TO LEAVE UNITED BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THE SACREDNESS OF THE PRINCIPLE THAT CHRISTIANS OUGHT TO SUBMIT TO AUTHORITY, ESPECIALLY IN THE CHURCH, FOR AS LONG AS THE LEADERS DO NOT TAMPER WITH GOD’S LAWS.
This is what Paul says, unequivocally, about the kind of attitude we are to have toward authorities:
Romans 13: 1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
If this is true of secular authorities, how much more so of authorities within the Church. How much more so of people who have been entrusted by God to be His representatives, to love and serve and protect His people and to bring His message to the world.
Yes, it's true; if the leadership blatantly rejects God's laws and refuses to repent then we have the right to stand up for what is holy and right. Unfortunately, some people are now using this rallying cry to say that the church is trying to abolish the Sabbath, and thus they are free to depart and create another group.
That is a total absurdity.
The laws of God at times need to be applied with a spirit of mercy. The Sabbath has gray areas. The Church will at times be called upon to render judgments with a spirit of mercy. Other decisions will also be rendered by the Church which might perturb extreme conservatives or extreme liberals. Sometimes we will move somewhat to the right or somewhat to the left. Christ in time has and will bring about adjustments to bring us closer to a balance.
At times I will agree with the decisions rendered by the COE, at times I might not agree. When I agree, other ministers might disagree. When I disagree, other ministers might agree. No matter where I stand, I will respect the decisions of our church authorities, when it come to the applications of some principles.
Why? Because, as we have seen, that is of utmost importance to God. Submitting to authorities is critical, because God told us to do so, and because it tells God where we stand toward "Him."
Submitting to imperfect authorities, tells God that we honor His wishes and are willing to submit to His authority.
More hypocrisy. Submitting to WCG was not convenient for him so he rebelled.
If United were to abolish any one of God's commandments, we will again stay firm and faithful to God. We would not rebel by doing so. The Church would rebel. It would leave God, we would not.
But there is no such reality going on right now, because such a move requires a 3/4 majority approval on the part of all the ministry and this is not even remotely close to happening.
As the COE tries to apply biblical principles in a merciful way, I will remain respectful of their decisions. I don’t have to agree, but I do have to remain respectful.
That’s what Michael understood; that’s what the great men of the Bible understood and they are the ones I want to emulate.
This is one more reason why I will not leave United.
8. I REFUSE TO LEAVE UNITED BECAUSE I DO NOT TRUST THE MOTIVES OF THOSE WHO CAUSE DIVISIONS.
When you listen to those who cause divisions, they invariably sound especially righteous and just. Yet, when I see the spirit of division, I always question their ultimate motives. Why? Because the Bible tells me to.
Yet he failed to question the motives of Kubik and the other apostates who spent months conspiring how they could take the most money and members with them.
This is what Paul told the elders in Ephesus, before his Departure from that city.
Acts 20:28-30 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselvesmen will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.
I respect people who have disagreements with the church and leave in peace. They cause no turmoil; they do not try to convince others of their ways. They leave and do not cause divisions, understanding the seriousness of the matter.
Unfortunately, in way too many cases, leaders who have left took a following with them. This fact should make all ponder why they are really leaving. Paul gives us one central reason: “...to draw away the disciples after themselves.”
Paul then gives us one more critical detail in his critique of the Judaizers who continually caused turmoil and divisions in the church when Christianity started.
They appeared to have very noble motives. They wanted strict obedience to the Law. They wanted uncompromising righteousness. But that was the sanctimonious surface. What was under the surface that a lot of members could not see? But was the real motive?
Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. (Their tithes).
There is more, of course. Sometimes the major cause is anger because of offenses that may have happened and were not forgiven; sometimes it's envy; envy for positions they don’t have or that they had and "no longer have."
I do not trust the leaders of the present disaffected group. Of course, some may be less guilty than others. Yet, when I see people who create divisions, I look beneath the veneer of sanctimonious excuses to find what Paul told me to look for: lust for power and control, taking people's tithes, resentment and envy.
All we have seen so far and will continue to see here is one sanctimonious excuse after another as to why he felt it was ok to leave WCG to join another splinter group.
I do not trust the motives of the leaders of the disaffected group.
I will not leave United!
9. I WILL NOT LEAVE UNITED BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT CHRIST IS IN CHARGE OF UNITED.
Jesus Christ is the mind that runs His body. He is fully aware of every member and organ in that body. He knows which is strong, which is weak; which is sickly and which is vibrant. He is strong enough to deal with each and every one of the members of His body. I will trust that He will do that, if necessary, in due time, in United.
Are there weak members in the COE? If so, He knows it. Is there injustice at the very top? If so, He knows it. If so, can Christ deal with them as He deals with me to bring them into a state of sobriety and repentance? Absolutely!
Jesus Christ does not need me to set the leadership of the church straight, "if" they go astray. I will trust in Him and will wait on Him. I will not trust people who tell me to trust "their" judgment and "their" perspective on facts and follow them.
I will not follow such people.
I will remain in United!
10. I WILL NOT LEAVE UNITED BECAUSE I DO NOT FOLLOW PEOPLE WHO EXHIBIT THE WORKS OF THE FLESH.
How, you may say? Five of the works of the flesh listed in Galatians 5 deal with attitudes and behaviors that cause divisions: Variance, Emulation, Strife, Seditions, Heresies are all manifestations of the same spirit which leads to the same painful and destructive results: confusion, strive and schisms. Furthermore, divisions may also find its roots in two other “insidious” works of the flesh, described before, that are hard to see and that often are often also at work, “envy” and “hatred” (or its milder manifestation, “resentment”).
No matter how they slice it, no matter how noble their reasons might appear, the results of their actions have been turmoil and divisions.
That is enough for me. "You shall know them by their fruits," said Jesus Christ. I have looked at the fruits and the fruits of turmoil and division are not from God.
I will not follow people who exhibit attitudes and actions that bring about turmoil and division in Christ’s body.
I am staying in United!
11. I WILL NOT LEAVE UNITED BECAUSE I DO NOT FOLLOW PEOPLE THAT DO NOT EXHIBIT THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT.
Nice sermons will not suffice; pleasant personalities will not do; a warm smile and a firm hand shake is not enough. I looked for the fruits of Agape love and, instead, I found accusations, exaggerations and demands.
I especially, and most of all, looked for Agape love for God’s people and instead I found the willingness to traumatize again a traumatized people; the willingness to wound again a wounded people; to cause anguish again for people who have already tasted more than enough anguish.
I did not see in them the Agape love that longs to give peace to them who are in dire need of peace.
They say to us, “Where is the love in the leadership of United?”, for dealing with rebellious attitudes with firmness. They sound as though they have the corner on love, when in reality they show lack of love towards God’s people by being willing to traumatize God's precious flock, once again, with one more unnecessary split.
I ask of them, “Where is your love?”. Have you considered the casualties that you will leave behind? Have you considered how many Christians will say, "Enough is enough; I want nothing to do with Christianity ever again!" Have you considered the ones who will fall into such confusion and depression again that their daily lives will be severely affected? Have you considered the ones who will be so hurt, so disappointed and upset that they will leave God altogether and who might even become unbelievers?
I would also ask them, “Have you considered the number of families that will fall part because of your decision? The number of friendships that will end? The number of couples that will divorce? The number of parents and children and brothers and sisters that will end up in conflict?”, as we have seen already in the past.
You seem to glow with warmth and kindness, but where is your love?
The turmoil and confusion you have created is not love and I want nothing to do with you!
I am staying in United!
12. I WILL NOT LEAVE UNITED BECAUSE OUR SYSTEM OF CHECKS AND BALANCES WORKS, WITH PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL.
Is there a probability that the COE can weaken spiritually? Yes. That was the assumption on which our system of government was built. There is a possibility that the leaders could deviate and weaken spiritually.
The solution? Close scrutiny on the part of the GCE and re-election of the members of the COE every three years.
Every year “three” COE members are up for re-election. Every twenty four months we can theoretically have a new majority on the Board (9 out of 12).
This is the peaceful, decent, orderly, civilized, godly way of dealing with a COE that may go astray.
There is no need for revolutions.
There is no need for new groups.
There is no need for turmoil and divisions.
There is no need for people to quit the COE.
There is no need for ministers to resign.
There is no need for members to move to another group.
But there is a need for people of good will, who are patient, who are filled with trust in Christ the Head of the Church, and who are willing to let the system "self-correct," as it was meant to do from the start.
ROTFLMAO! Talk about hypocrisy!
Some of the ministers who have left helped create the system, but failed to wait to let it work.
Why? Did they forget how the system works? Why the impatience?
I will not follow people who are impatient and who do not trust in Christ and who don’t have the nobility to allow a system that works, to work.
I will stay in United!
CONCLUSION
Let me now conclude by repeating what I have already stated, lest there be any doubt as to where I stand.
I will not leave United to follow the leaders of the splinter group because,
1. I refuse to break my Father’s heart one more time.2. I dare not put another cut or tear into my Savior's body.3. I will strive to follow Michael’s example, not Lucifer’s.4. I will strive to follow Moses’ example, not Korah’s.5. I will strive to follow David’s example not Saul’s.6. I will strive to follow Paul’s words, not the words of self-appointed saviors of the Church.7. I will submit to Church authority, though imperfect, because God wants me to.8. I do not trust the motives of anyone who causes divisions.9. I believe that Christ loves United, that He is in charge of United and that He rules among United and that He will set things straight, if and when the necessity arises.10. I will not follow people who exhibit the works of the flesh, especially as pertaining divisions.11. I will not follow people who are more concerned about implementing their own agenda than loving and protecting God’s people.12. I will not leave United because I believe that our system of checks and balances works, when people of good will wait for it to work and when they are willing to help it to work. In my view, the people who have left have not shown sufficient willingness to do either.
These are my major reasons for staying in United. I hope and pray that you share most, or all, of these reasons and that, in fact, you may actually have many more than mine.
It is an honor to be a minister in the United Church of God; it is an honor to serve with special ministers who with me will stay solid and faithful; it is an honor to serve the members who have chosen to remain faithful in our Church and, most of all, it is an honor to submit to God and Jesus Christ and their will that I do not contribute to turmoil and division but, rather, to peace and to unity.
Never has there been a more tone-deaf COG minister than this. Caputo is another Bob Thiel.
24 comments:
I hate to say it, but this guy makes more excuses to justify his hypocrisy than Bob Thiel does. That was so hypocritical!
I did like the comment about dreamers. That nailed Thiel's ass big time.
If the leadership is doing it wrong and trying to get you to do wrong things, then it's not wrong to leave that church, but for them to condemn leaving when they themselves left another church for UCG that would make them a hypocrite.
This is the true face of the hypocritical spineless leadership of the United Church of God. Every single one of them is guilty of everything Caputo said he would never do. This is why the UCG is a dead church that cannot draw in new members.
Why would Google bring up past UCG articles if you hadn't searched for them yourself???
10:17 wrote: "Why would Google bring up past UCG articles if you hadn't searched for them yourself???"
I have no idea but it was probably because the topic of atheism was discussed a couple posts back and Caputo's blog at that time was called"atheism exposed"
I also had a couple of Bob Thiel's atheistic crap pop up too, so it has to operating on some kind of algorithm.
It is indeed hypocrisy, although no more than practiced by HWA, of course.
As most people reading this blog probably know, when HWA's personal views or interpretation of the Bible (not to mention his ego) butted heads with the COG 7th day, instead of "submitting to authority" and counseling with the ministry with a humble heart to learn how he was wrong and how Church Authority(TM) was right, he naturally began his own church modeled after his own personal views.
And so it goes. Church authority must be obeyed, until it contrasts with your own views and you just can't stand it anymore, so you start your own church (or join a branch more in line with your views).
This wash-rinse-repeat situation would surely not be the case if there was some God orchestrating and inspiring it all, but would be expected if a bunch of humans just couldn't agree on what ancient scribes in their ancient ignorance happened to write down at one time or another.
Mike Caputo, whom I personally knew incidentally, was merely the latest person at that time to go through the wash-rinse cycle. So instead of calling bull on the whole thing, he naturally made a decision to stick with a group that most closely aligned with his personal interpretation of ancient Greek and Hebrew texts. And/or the group that held his purse strings (which needs to be mentioned as another factor that ministers certainly take into consideration when leaving or not leaving).
He probably should word it "I will... never again _________" That never say never thing is lurking too.
Reminds me of Dave Pack's
"I want to make a statement about...me...now, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying?"
"11. I WILL NOT LEAVE UNITED BECAUSE I DO NOT FOLLOW PEOPLE THAT DO NOT EXHIBIT THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT."
Continues to amaze me how so many people, and in this case a 'minister' wrongly quote this particular part of scripture. These is no mention of fruit(S) of the spirit in the bible. There is a mention of "FRUIT" of the Spirit, showing the result of this HS in one's life. It is a whole package that comes from God's nature. There are "gifts" of the Spirit mentioned but that is not the same as 'fruit' but more like a calling through a 'gift'.
PS....Dave concludes as he speaks this to the Living Church of God...
" Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."
David C Pack
December 12, 1998
He kept hammering obedience. He ignores the wide spread problem of over conformity in society. Dave Packs church being an example of 'obedient' members.
That God will sort out the problems in the leadership is garbage. Then why the constant splintering? Where was God with HWAs 1975 prediction? Or GTAs whoring ways?
Most of what he wrote are code words for very ugly behaviors by the ministers. The end justifies the means is standard operating procedure within these groups.
First, the Body of Christ (the Church) is NOT synonymous with the organization known as the United Church of God! While that HUMAN organization may have some members who are indeed part of Christ's ekklesia, the corporate entity is NOT.
Second, while Scripture informs us that Michael remained faithful to God, it also informs us that Satan lost "his" place in (was kicked out of) heaven. In other words, it wasn't "his" decision to leave.
Third, there is abundant evidence to suggest that trusting the leadership within these groups is NOT wise - indeed, in many cases it would be extremely foolish to do so! And, while many of the folks who comment here don't exhibit the fruits of the Holy Spirit, anyone who has ever been a part of the Worldwide or one of its splinters knows that there are a whole lot of folks on the inside who don't either!
Fourth, Christ never envisioned his followers "submitting" to the leadership of his Church. He introduced the model of servant leadership - which did NOT involve folks lording it over his flock.
Michael,
The wash-rinse-repeat cycle demonstrates human failure and weaknesses - It doesn't tell us very much about God. Humans' musings about God, worship and fellowship are flawed and imperfect, but it is illogical to say that those failures prove that God isn't there or that "He" is responsible for their behavior. In other words, people can (and often do) fail to follow the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (or "the better angels" of their own nature as a very wise man once framed it).
--Lonnie
"I will not break my Fathers heart" is cheap manipulation. So do what the author wants or you are breaking Gods heart.
“What I find so interesting is the complete hypocrisy in the points below. Caputo, along with every other minister that left the Worldwide Church of God was guilty of every single thing he posted below. He rebelled against authority when he joined up with those that conspired for months prior to form a breakaway group that was planned so well that they all kept their income stream rolling in after they apostatized from the mother church.”
Apostates slipped into high positions in the Worldwide Church of God and collected paychecks from the WCG while they secretly plotted against the WCG and destroyed the WCG from the inside. They lied all along and said that they were not up to anything and that they were not making any doctrinal changes but then did the Great Apostasy of January 1995 that blew the WCG to pieces.
Those who were simple-minded and openly opposed the doctrinal changes of the Apostates simply got thrown out of the WCG.
Those who knew how to play the game more shrewdly made like they were going along with the doctrinal changes of the Apostates while they secretly plotted to hold onto their paychecks by starting the United Church of Paycheck Collectors and then made like they now still believed some of the old teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong after all.
All that mind-numbing blabbering by Mike Caputo somehow reminds me of Dave Pack. Maybe they both have the same evil spirit(s).
Lots of religious-sounding talk to make himself look good with all sorts of scripture quotes and misquotes and twists and arguments and proofs while he actually just does whatever he wants to do.
The fact is that stalkers in the UCG get the UCG Paycheck Collectors to kick out their victims. Then their victims are FORCED to leave the UCG and go somewhere else. None of the religious-sounding blabbering helps them at all.
This article by Caputo is rather disturbing. Does he not practice critical thinking? This reads like a brainwashed cult member instead of a man who wisely thought something out. UCG is just as spiritually bankrupt as PCG and RCG are. It's just another version of the same nonsnese.
Lonnie wrote:
"Humans' musings about God, worship and fellowship are flawed and imperfect, but it is illogical to say that those failures prove that God isn't there or that "He" is responsible for their behavior. In other words, people can (and often do) fail to follow the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (or "the better angels" of their own nature as a very wise man once framed it)."
If we ask, what would it be like to see a group not being led by any magical unifying Holy Spirit but merely having all the infighting and splintering and power posturing that most common human organizations have, and compare that to what we actually see in COG, what's the most logical conclusion to come to?
No one can FORCE anyone to leave UCG.
Michael,
I would say that characterizing the Holy Spirit as "magical" is misleading. Scripture portrays the Holy Spirit as an invisible force that enables God to share his life and character with humans. It is not portrayed as something that controls or makes one perfect, infallible or able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. It is portrayed as something whose influence can grow over time if the individual yields to its pull, but that it can also be resisted or ignored by the individual it is acting upon. Sure, some folks say that the inspiration of the Holy Spirit makes them infallible (or what they say/write inerrant), but Scripture itself makes no such claims about the Spirit.
In other words, everyone within a particular group of humans would have to have the Holy Spirit and be perfectly yielding to its influence to achieve peace and harmony. How likely is it that both of those things would be present in any group of humans? Does everyone in the group display the fruits/evidence of the Holy Spirit? And, even if their individual lives display those fruits, does that suggest/imply that those individuals have achieved perfection or are always yielding to the Spirit's pull?
For the sake of argument, let's take the Holy Spirit out of our calculation. Humans have long realized that we are subject to what we characterize as good and bad impulses. Native Americans sometimes framed this in terms of two wolves at war within an individual. In cartoons, the principle is often depicted as a miniature angel on one shoulder and a tiny devil on the other vying for control of the mind within the head that rests between them. Does the good impulse always win out? Hence, whether one accepts the existence of a Holy Spirit or not, we can see that humans are often not disposed to yield to "the better angels of our nature."
What's the most logical conclusion we can reach? I would answer that any grouping of humans (churches included) will experience some degree of disharmony and fracturing simply because humans are involved! In other words, we can draw conclusions about humans and their behaviors in these settings, but they tell us very little or nothing about God.
Organizations of any type, religious or secular , dont care about you.
They only care about perpetuating themselves, or at least maintain the "status quo".
Be very wary about "joining" any type of human organization, as they really only just want you to be a spectator and financially
support the "inner circles of hierarchy". In return, they only offer the illusion and rhetoric that you are "part of" something important and meaningful, or give you a few reluctant strokes now for your ego, again just to string you along.
Again, not just picking on churches here. Business, politics , and all human orgs are all the same way. The COGs historically (all of them) have over promised and under delivered in virtually all areas. The 1% in the COG are the true beneficiaries at the top.
Let people make up their own mind hey Tonto. That's your own opinion.
Stalkers ? What a odd word to pick.
UCG has some rude members that do not have the fruit of the holy spirit.
Anonymous at 4:15 PM said...“UCG has some rude members that do not have the fruit of the holy spirit.”
Well, that is certainly putting it very mildly.
I have a question. I thought the UCG voted!! Why is Kubik still the President, Grand Poohbah or whoever he THINKS he is????Hasn’t he EXCEEDED his TERM LIMIT??? VERY interesting to me!!
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