One of the great hallmarks of the Christian faith is placing one's faith in Jesus Christ. When resting in that faith, trials and troubles tend to not be such a big issue that the COG claims them to constantly be. It has been ground into members' heads that God is constantly testing them to price themselves worthy to be able to squeak by into some glorious kingdom to come. Some church members love to trot out troubles and issues in life as badges of honor that they are being tested. It makes them look "strong" to other church members who need to be impressed by them.
Doug quotes this scripture but ignores the last part:
“Let no one say when he is tested (tempted), “I am tested (tempted) by God”: for God cannot be tested (tempted) by evil, nor does He Himself test (tempt) anyone” (James 1:13).
And this:
James 1:13-15
New International Version
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Doug writes:
Trials Test Our Faith: The Apostle Paul warned, “Know this, that in the last days perilous times will come” (2 Timothy 3:1). Jesus predicted that the end of the age would be marked by increasing trials and turmoil on a global scale (Matthew 24), and He wondered aloud, “when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:8). When the challenges of life begin to mount, we need to remember that faith is one of the fruits of God’s Spirit (Galatians 5:22) and that God gives His Spirit to those who trust Him and obey His instructions (Acts 5:32). However, we must also do our part to stir up God’s Spirit (2 Timothy 1:6–7). We need to remember that we can ask for more faith (Luke 17:5), and that faith comes from hearing (and studying) God’s word (Romans 10:17). God is faithful (Deuteronomy 7:9), and He is like a rock and a fortress that protects His faithful people (Psalm 31:3, 23). James wrote, “the testing of your faith produces patience” (James 1:3–4). Let’s remember to study the examples of faith in Hebrews 11 as we work through the trials we face in our lives.
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
In Church of God speak, whenever God is testing you it is because you have sinned and need to be corrected.
24 comments:
February 2013. November 2017. Is boredom and repetition testing Mr. Doug's faith?
The ACOGs are constantly proving that if a fart is powerful and deadly enough, it can still be smelt in spite of the wind.
Why does the author or authoress NO2HWA always assume church members blindly believe everything the ministry declare ?
If NO2HWA was originally a mere church member they would not do that.
Think about it.
Maybe I'm missing something here.
IMHO I don't see big problems, contradictions or off the rails concepts in his personal "Have a Profitable Sabbath" reminders critiqued from time to time. Could be written by any Baptist or Catholic.
" Doug writes :Trials Test Our Faith: Nothing new in Christian theology here. While I'd not agree that asking for "more faith" is a concept that means anything or that faith, defined as made up of what we hope is true, based on no actual evidence that it is true (Heb 11:1), is not a somewhat dangerous concept to actually live by, I know what he means. The scriptures require such an approach to its story.
I can think of a few examples of God in the stories tempting humans. Putting a tree that one must never touch or eat from in the middle of the Garden of Eden comes to mind. That's like putting a bowl of skittles in front of a child with a warning never to take one. Of course they will.
Seems like the entire saga of the Book of Job is one big set up by the Deity on a man who had no clue what or why what was happening to him, was happening to him. He just passed the test and got ten brand new children back to replace the ten swept away by the plan hatched by the Deity and his lesser counselor "Satan" on the Council of the Gods
" “What Is The Divine Council and Is It Biblical?” The Divine Council are a council of divine beings created by God to make decisions about what happens in the universe and in the lives of humans in tandem with God.
One of the clearest examples of this can be seen in 1 Kings 22 in which the prophet Micaiah recounts a vision God gave him, and in the vision, God asked his heavenly host what the best course of action to take would be in bringing about the demise of King Ahab. One says one thing, and another says another thing. Finally, one of the council members comes forth and says that he will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all of Ahab’s prophets, and Yahweh tells him “You will succeed. Go and do it.”.
The Bible calls these beings “gods” in places like Psalm 82, but the biblical authors are clear that they are not on par with Yahweh..."
https://cerebralfaith.net/the-book-of-job-how-divine-council-theology-provides-a-possible-solution/
The Divine Council were also the "let us" El was talking to in making man in "our image".
Why, Dennis, you are starting to sound like a preacher again. I suppose next you will be adding biblical faith to your preaching too. Congratulations.
People on this blog are SOOOOOOOO UNGRATEFUL!!!!!!!!! because ALL of David C. Pack and Herbert W. Armstrong's prophecies START OFF AS TRUE, because GOD WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO BRING THE PUNISHMENTS, but GOD CHANGED HIS MIND and GAVE US MORE TIME and INSTEAD of BEING THANKFUL that OUR MERCIFUL GOD GAVE US MORE TIME, I see UNGRATEFUL PEOPLE call GOD'S TWO GREAT END-TIME SERVANTS FALSE PROPHETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY in the WORLD would someone DARE TO BE SO FOOLISH to do SUCH A THING?????!!!!!
GOD gave you a WONDERFUL GIFT (THE WONDERFUL AND MARVELOUS TRUTH) and you don't APPRECIATE the GIFT (THE TRUTH THAT'S MORE than ANYTHING ELSE in the WHOLE ENTIRE VAST UNIVERSE) and YOU TRAMPLE ON IT like how Pigs trample on MUD!!!!!!!!!! WHY IN THE WORLD would you DO ANYTHING FOOLISH LIKE THAT???????????!!!!!!!!
God is TRYING TO give you a GIFT and YOU REFUSE IT and I WONDER WHY AND HOW IN THE WORLD could you PULL SUCH FOOLISHNESS!!!!!!!
641,
I have seen many a church member simply accept and run with whatever the minister says. I've never been a minister. Still even if NO2HWA was it would make no difference to me.
Curious, why would it matter to you? Additional hypocrisy?
True Christian: You are the best Troll we have ever had on here. Funny guy! Entertaining
"People on this blog are SOOOOOOOO UNGRATEFUL!!!!!!!!! because ALL of David C. Pack and Herbert W. Armstrong's prophecies START OFF AS TRUE"
The sad part is that many believe the True Christian narrative, with Dave being replaced by their own splinter leader.
Oh please True Christian is a troll.
I suspect this "True Christian" is trolling here to merely stir the pot. A form of gaslighting. He/she probably doesn't actually believe what he/she is posting.
Richard
There are times I wish Blogspot had a laugh react option.
Well, the best satire is indistinguishable from the real thing, you know.
Doug, former WCG hireling, who continues to teach that a Jesus, another Jesus, will very soon return to reign on earth for 1,000 years (MMM Mickey Mouse Millennium) is telling us now about faith on earth in some "last days," leaves us with the thought that we should: "...remember to study the examples of faith in Hebrews 11 as we work through the trials we face in our lives..."
******
Doug cited perilous times in the last days:
Micah 4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
But, has God's Spirit been poured out upon all flesh yet? No. Are all nations flowing unto that mountain of the house of the LORD yet? No.
And neither will that happen until some time after Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit, but Doug is welcome to continue to believe/teach about the MMM.
God's known works (Acts 15:18; Heb 4:3) are accomplished by His Spirit:
"...Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts." Zech 4:6
Doug still appears to deny the Father and Son, that sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and things like grace, but Doug refers to "our faith" as though it is something he has, and maybe Doug does, but is it God's faith: a fruit of God's Spirit, something that is of God, and not of self, one's works, striving to somehow impress God on his own by "doing his part?"
Let's take Doug's advice and consider Heb 11 with one example:
"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." Hebrews 11:5
Enoch's faith did not translate him. God did the translation. How? By His, God's, faith that came by way of God's Spirit (Zech 4:6), by which God accomplishes things. Enoch was the workmanship of God's hands, so who really gets the credit for that translation? Anything of Enoch? Or, something of God?
Doug still thinks, believes in qualifying for salvation, earning salvation, doing his part, like stirring up his own faith. Where is God in that picture? No need for grace there; Doug will do it all, or so he thinks...and thinks his followers will easily, like Doug, do, but does that make it so?
Will Doug ever have enough faith, of and by himself, to impress God? Doug puts the cart before the horse when he wrote: "...that God gives His Spirit to those who trust Him and obey His instructions (Acts 5:32 )..."
Before Doug became a former WCG hireling, his then minister over him, Joseph W. Tkach Senior told all of us this, which is opposite of what Doug wrote:
"...If you will read Acts 5 vs.32, you’ll see in context that it’s not talking about God giving his Spirit to those who obey him. How dumb can we be?! God gives his Spirit to those who obey him. Without that you cannot be a Christian, you cannot obey God..."
That really is the reason ancient physical Israel did not, could not obey God. And Joe taught that back on 7 January 1995, but who would believe it?
Or, as said in Moses' words:
"Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day." Deut 29:4
God, the LORD, is the Giver, by His Spirit, of the fruits of His Spirit; otherwise, who would obey God on anything?
Will Doug demonstrate the faith of himSELF, or the faith of God?
Time will tell...
John
True Christian is probably this blogs own troll to ignite these boring posts.
Time will indeed tell John. Perhaps your take on branding the Millennium 'Mickey Mouse' will tell too.
10.33 AM
John, so you admit that you are a Tkachite. I always wondered what your religious home base was.
On Banned we are very broad minded and tolerant. We even accept Joe Tkach parrots.
Anon, November 22, 2021 at 2:32 AM, said:
"...10.33 AM
John, so you admit that you are a Tkachite. I always wondered what your religious home base was.
On Banned we are very broad minded and tolerant. We even accept Joe Tkach parrots.
******
No, I do not admit to be a Tkachite or, for that matter, an Armstrongite; however, both of them, like Winnail, Kubik, Weston, Flurry, Pack et al, etc., at times spoke some truths.
In this particular case, while disagreeing with a lot of other things Joe Tkach senior mentioned in that infamous 1995 transcript, I believe Joe spoke truth regarding Acts 5:32...even if you and someone like a Frank Nelte stick with what WCG formerly taught (who knows what those WCG members believe today? Certainly nothing like Flurry!).
In fact, I reread the section of the transcript and I thought if I had to copy/send it again, I would add something Joe said near the end of his words. Here it is:
^^^^^^
"...If you will read Acts 5 vs.32, you’ll see in context that it’s not talking about God giving his Spirit to those who obey him. How dumb can we be?! God gives his Spirit to those who obey him. Without that you cannot be a Christian, you cannot obey God. You can walk in the letter of the Law and that’s about the extent of it. Mr. Armstrong made that very plain..."
^^^^^^
Are you one who believes that you can build enough character to impress God, and qualify/earn salvation, so that God must allow you into His Kingdom. Would what you are doing rock God back on his heels? Sometimes I wonder if Doug Winnail thinks he is doing that wonderful. Peter initially thought forgiving someone 7 times was a fantastic thing to do, but Christ disagreed with Peter's thoughts there on that one.
For any thinking they will qualify and earn some reward of God's Kingdom, position, eternal life, some other reward, just demonstrate your wisdom to choose by choosing to never again sin, and make your decision stick, then henceforth for the rest of your life do that, and then send us all a post and tell us how you did it!
Thinking about Joe Tkach's words, will you choose to even successfully simple for the rest of your life simply "...walk in the letter of the Law?" Was Joe on to something most didn't believe?
And yes, of course, time will tell...
John
John
All the ACOG splinter leaders are lying, lording thugs. By contrast, there are secular writers that do an excellent job in describing how the world really works.
Dangerous Doug's remarks highlight why COG doctrine is so treacherous.
Doug starts the posts with fear mongering about perilous times in the last days.
There's nothing wrong with quoting the verse he did - except if you are a COG minister - because then it's a dog whistle to produce a fear response.
Armstrongism is fueled by fear, despite the 365 holy verses in the Bible to fear not, or don't worry.
Then Doug tells the people to grow in faith and cites Romans 10:17 to show that faith comes by hearing the word.
However, the COGs don't preach the Word, as evidenced by their glaring lack of teaching about the works of the Word made Flesh (defined as Jesus in John 1:1-14).
Not knowing about being justified by the righteousness of Jesus throws the people in a fear spiral of never being good enough while not being able to grow in faith.
While some of the people may grow in COG indoctrination, they can't grow in grace and knowledge without out learning about Jesus, the wisdom of God.
They cannot find rest, peace, or joy in the works of the Word that redeems Christians to holiness.
1 Corinthians 1:30
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
Anon, November 22, 2021 at 6:29 PM, said, in part:
"...Dangerous Doug's remarks highlight why COG doctrine is so treacherous.
Doug starts the posts with fear mongering about perilous times in the last days...then it's a dog whistle to produce a fear response...However, the COGs don't preach the Word, as evidenced by their glaring lack of teaching about the works of the Word made Flesh (defined as Jesus in John 1:1-14)...While some of the people may grow in COG indoctrination, they can't grow in grace and knowledge without out learning about Jesus, the wisdom of God...
...1 Corinthians 1:30
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
******
And truly, that wisdom is of God, the LORD of hosts, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob:
Revelation 7:11 "And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen."
Many other qualities could be added to that wisdom and other words there in verse 12.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, Doug Winnail would have us (well, his followers) believe wisdom is of Doug and the other former WCG hirelings, who in fear, fled Pasadena leaving their ministerial credentials behind.
Should these former WCG hirelings continue to be followed as they continue to preach about their Mickey Mouse Millennium of another Jesus reigning on earth starting very soon and continuing on for 1,000 years, rather than believe the numerous scriptures telling us that He will be at His Father's right hand (that's not on this earth) until all His enemies are subdued?
Time, and the wisdom of God, will tell...
John
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