You Aren’t Ezekiel, and We Aren’t Israel!
Unfortunately, most of the Armstrong Churches of God are operating under the delusion that they have been commissioned by Almighty God to preach a message of warning to the English-speaking peoples of the world. They claim that they are the only TRUE Christians extant on this planet (some will allow that a few other Sabbath-keeping Christians are brothers and sisters in Christ), but they completely ignore or reject the commission which Christ gave to his disciples! How did this happen? Why aren’t they doing the work which Christ gave his disciples to do?
It all began many years ago with a man named Herbert Armstrong. Unfortunately, Herbert was a man with very little background, formal education or experience in the study and practice of religion and history. That, however, didn’t prevent him from becoming obsessed with those subjects or eventually proclaiming himself to be an authority in both. In short, Armstrong was struck by what he saw as the Bible’s preoccupation with the people of Israel. “This book is all about Israel,” he reasoned. This awareness led him to wonder why such a book would be of so much interest and concern to the English-speaking peoples of the world.
Herbert immediately began searching for an explanation for this enigmatic phenomenon and quickly stumbled upon a theory that had gained some traction in Nineteenth-Century England as an explanation for the success of English-speaking peoples on the world stage. Based largely on myths, legends, questionable etymologies, and notions of British superiority, some folks had decided that the Anglo-Saxon people of Britain must be one of the long-lost tribes of ancient Israel! They reasoned: Hadn’t God promised that Jacob’s descendants would one day possess great wealth, power, territory, and the “gates of their enemies?” Ancient Israel had never received those blessings, but Great Britain certainly had – the people of the United States had received those blessings! Hence, the English-speaking peoples of the earth MUST be Israel! Never mind, that history, archaeology, linguistics, and genetics made such a notion absurd – it explained so much!
From there, it wasn’t a big leap to start imagining that all of those Old Testament prophecies must also apply to modern Israel, the English-speaking peoples of the earth. As Armstrong studied those prophets, it dawned on him that they were always warning Israel of God’s impending wrath for their many sins and general wickedness. Well, he reasoned, there certainly was a lot of sin and wickedness extant among the English-speaking peoples of the world. Could it be that God was raising him up to warn these modern Israelites of their impending doom?
Armstrong stumbled across the thirty-third chapter of the book of Ezekiel, and he read there:
“So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me. When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.” (Ezekiel 33:7-9)
Armstrong turned to the book of Isaiah and read:
“Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.” (Isaiah 58:1)
“God must intend for me to warn modern Israel of his impending doom!” Armstrong reasoned. The logic appeared so compelling to him. Hadn’t his conclusions been reached by carefully building on each new revelation that had been given to him? Armstrong had constructed this edifice by building line upon line, scripture upon scripture; and it explained so much! This all had to be from God – how else could he have figured all of this stuff out? And, if others couldn’t see it, it must be because God hadn’t revealed it to them!
Nevertheless, although Herbert now believed that he had his commission from God, he still wondered about how this could be reconciled with the traditional message of the Christian Church. Wasn’t the Church commissioned by Christ to preach the gospel? And wasn’t the gospel about Christ and salvation through him?
After his resurrection and just prior to his ascension to heaven, Christ had told his followers:
“All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” (Matthew 28:18-20)
How was Herbert to get around what had always been characterized by Christians as the “Great Commission?”
“They are ignorant of the TRUTH of the Sabbath and Holy Days (and they observe pagan days), and they don’t even know who they are (Israel),” he reasoned. From there, it wasn’t hard to imagine that they hadn’t been preaching the correct gospel! Armstrong read that Christ had preached “the gospel of the kingdom of God” (Mark 1:14-15), and he was off to the races! After all, wasn’t the kingdom all about the government that God would set up on this earth to displace all of humankind’s Satan-inspired kingdoms? “Traditional Christians must have had it wrong all along!” he thought. They had been preaching a message about the messenger and had ignored his message!
For most Christians, however, Herbert Armstrong had gone down a heretical rabbit hole that was impossible to reconcile with that clear language at the end of the Gospel of Matthew. Christ had commissioned his disciples to go out and make new disciples and to baptize them – NOT to berate Israel for their sins and warn them about their impending doom! Most Christians also realized that it was impossible to reconcile Armstrong’s “Warning to Israel” and promise of “The World Tomorrow” with the message that Christ’s apostles had preached.
The first sermon that Peter delivered on the day of Pentecost was ALL ABOUT CHRIST (see Acts 2:14-36). Paul preached to the Romans about Jesus Christ (see Romans 1:1-5). Likewise, he wrote to the Corinthians about the one who had made them Holy, Jesus Christ (see I Corinthians 1:2 and 23). Paul wrote to the saints of Galatia:
“They are ignorant of the TRUTH of the Sabbath and Holy Days (and they observe pagan days), and they don’t even know who they are (Israel),” he reasoned. From there, it wasn’t hard to imagine that they hadn’t been preaching the correct gospel! Armstrong read that Christ had preached “the gospel of the kingdom of God” (Mark 1:14-15), and he was off to the races! After all, wasn’t the kingdom all about the government that God would set up on this earth to displace all of humankind’s Satan-inspired kingdoms? “Traditional Christians must have had it wrong all along!” he thought. They had been preaching a message about the messenger and had ignored his message!
For most Christians, however, Herbert Armstrong had gone down a heretical rabbit hole that was impossible to reconcile with that clear language at the end of the Gospel of Matthew. Christ had commissioned his disciples to go out and make new disciples and to baptize them – NOT to berate Israel for their sins and warn them about their impending doom! Most Christians also realized that it was impossible to reconcile Armstrong’s “Warning to Israel” and promise of “The World Tomorrow” with the message that Christ’s apostles had preached.
The first sermon that Peter delivered on the day of Pentecost was ALL ABOUT CHRIST (see Acts 2:14-36). Paul preached to the Romans about Jesus Christ (see Romans 1:1-5). Likewise, he wrote to the Corinthians about the one who had made them Holy, Jesus Christ (see I Corinthians 1:2 and 23). Paul wrote to the saints of Galatia:
“May God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace. Jesus gave his life for our sins, just as God our Father planned, in order to rescue us from this evil world in which we live. All glory to God forever and ever! Amen. I am shocked that you are turning away so soon from God, who called you to himself through the loving mercy of Christ. You are following a different way that pretends to be the Good News but is not the Good News at all. You are being fooled by those who deliberately twist the truth concerning Christ.” (Galatians 1:3-7)
He also wrote to the saints at Ephesus that
“God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure. So, we praise God for the glorious grace he has poured out on us who belong to his dear Son. He is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his Son and forgave our sins.” (see Ephesians 1:5-7)
Indeed, all of Paul’s messaging was about this salvation that we receive through Jesus Christ!
Now, in hindsight, it is easy to see how Herbert Armstrong went astray – how he came to believe that he was doing God’s work. This should serve as a parable to all Christians of how Satan can lead us astray and divert our energy and attention away from the work which God has given us to do. We must never forget that Christ commissioned us to preach the good news about salvation through him. He said NOTHING about warning Israel about the consequences of their sins! That was a commission which God gave to his prophets of old – it has NOTHING to do with the work currently before the Church of God!
Lonnie Hendrix
Now, in hindsight, it is easy to see how Herbert Armstrong went astray – how he came to believe that he was doing God’s work. This should serve as a parable to all Christians of how Satan can lead us astray and divert our energy and attention away from the work which God has given us to do. We must never forget that Christ commissioned us to preach the good news about salvation through him. He said NOTHING about warning Israel about the consequences of their sins! That was a commission which God gave to his prophets of old – it has NOTHING to do with the work currently before the Church of God!
Lonnie Hendrix
33 comments:
Well. Still believe:
1. Jesus did preach the "kingdom of God". The "gospel" includes also about Himself.
2. Somewhere there are descendants of the 13 tribes on this earth but I never got too excited about BI because I can't prove where they are.
3. The commission was given to the 11 apostles, not to "us". However it's OK to teach, speak the Word of God if you know what you are talking about (many don't).
4. God's messages to Ezekiel were right on time, not for just us today, a time when the nation of Judah was under siege and finally captured including Jerusalem.
True I am tired of this blog claiming Jesus didn't preach about the kingdom of God God’s Kingdom is a real government established by God man lost it's way for 6,000 years and God will restore paradise on earth.
God has appointed Jesus Christ as King of the Kingdom and has given him more authority than any human ruler could ever have. Along with him will be other kings and priests but Jesus will be above them he is " the king of kings and lord of lords"
Jesus emphasized that to be truly happy, we must learn what God wants us to do and then do it, so you must apply what you learned in the HWA booklets and the Bible.
The message of the gospel, of salvation through Jesus Christ has indeed gone out into the world.
And continues to this day. An astonishing witness to us here in the ‘West’ is the coming to Christ of hundreds of thousands from the Muslim world each year. One largely unknown and ignored by the ‘Christian West’.
The cog movement as most of us know is, unknown, unheard off, invisible, bitterly divided, deeply flawed in its theology and doctrine (British Israelism for just one example), and the behaviour of the ‘shepherds’ indefensible with the harm they have caused to so many.
And many are still coming to salvation ‘worldwide’ (pun intended). Armstrongism has made no impact on this salvation of which angels desire to look into, but it has opened a door for those of us impacted by it to salvation in spite of it.
As the apostles said ‘rejoice’.
The HWA booklets have nothing to do with the Bible!
If that's how you feel then why don't you LEAVE? No one is making you stay in Church. But no the lying hypocrites who run this blog won't.
"But no the lying hypocrites who run this blog won't. " LOL! Why should we?????? We are getting paid to preach at church.
Anon 12:18 am I do believe most cog ministers wouldn't do it for free.
Lonnie: the way you described HWA's actions was very kind - like he innocently stumbled upon his doctrines while piously studying the Bible - instead of purposefully copying them from other sources.
Was that kind phrasing intentional, so as not to offend those who venerate HWA?
Or, are you unaware of how HWA formed his doctrines?
At least we both can see that COG doctrines were not revelations from God.
In Matthew 24:22 warned that no flesh would be saved unless God intervened in WW3. Christ condemned cities that refused to repent. He warned about the "weeping and gnashing of teeth." Lonnie's claim that Christ didn't warn about the consequences of sin is not true.
Billions are about to die in WW3, yet the ACOGs should say nothing because Lonnie says so. I don't think those caught in WW3 will appreciate that they weren't warned.
Yeap, the ACOGs should all ignore the book of Revelation because Lonnie says so.
High-school-dropout HWA is in error, according to Paul, when he makes sabbaths/holy days a test of fellowship: (Gal 4:10, Col 2:16, Heb 10:1..)
Armstrongites: please study these words of Apostle Paul ~~ not False'Apostle'HWA
What most people do not realize is that no person, no church group has 100% truth. This is because human beings are involved. Humans are dominated by emotion, have faulty memories, sometimes reach understanding over a period of time, and often communicate poorly. That said, it is a grave mistake to single source your information, whether it be secular in nature, or spiritual. You will never have 100% accurate understanding unless you gestalt from various reliable sources to obtain the whole truth, and this requires a lifetime of effort. If you ever believe that you have arrived at 100% truth, you have deceived yourself, and you have stopped growing. By the laws of science, any organism which ceases to grow is in fact dying.
Even the fact that there are so many ACOGs demonstrates that by simple laws of probability, not a single one of them has 100% truth that you can rely upon.
Perhaps I was too generous with this post, but I did indicate that he had derived his notions about British Israelism from the writings of other folks. Also, I didn't really address his motivation(s) in this piece. Most of us will understand that the watchman messaging and emphasis on prophecy allowed Hebert the freedom to focus on current events and headlines - which he used to market his new religion to the masses. In other words, the former marketing man used his "warning" as one of his most effective hooks! Think about those slick montages of protest, war, famine, social unrest, etc. - "The World Tomorrow" looked an awful lot like the evening news.
Anonymous 7:15 wrote, "True I am tired of this blog claiming Jesus didn't preach about the kingdom of God God’s Kingdom is a real government established by God man lost it's way for 6,000 years and God will restore paradise on earth."
First, it would really help the reader if you used some punctuation. You have strung together three sentences as one. Christ was the Logos - the Word of reason. I think this would suggest that maybe clarity of expression is a worthy goal for his followers.
HWA preached a gospel of "The Wonderful World Tomorrow." This language states his emphasis. His message encompassed primarily: The end time, the Second Coming and the Millenium. He did not preach an anti-Gospel but he preached a skewed Gospel. His message did not focus on the good news of salvation through the work (the real work, BTW) of Christ through the Cross. Salvation, after all, is on the critical path to the Kingdom of God.
I have heard HWA accuse "the brethren" of wanting to "get" salvation as if the main thrust of the Gospel were a selfish goal. I have heard him say that the only reason "the brethren" were called was to support him in "the work." I also heard him say if "the brethren did not support the work wholeheartedly, God could raise up stones to be the sons of Abraham (how he connected this passage from the NT to the work is, at a minimum, artful). Based on these statements what do you think his attitude was towards the salvation of humankind? (It is odd that he preached this non-humanistic view in private before "the brethren" and then later inaugurated a magazine called "Human Potential" that emphasized humanistic values.)
My guess is that HWA saw the Gospel as a message that reflected what he thought of as his personal mission rather than how it was seen in the NT. There is a much more complicated backstory here having to do with the concept of grace and law that requires more lengthy development.
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One of our anonymous commentators noted: "the ACOGs should all ignore the book of Revelation because Lonnie says so."
First, I don't believe I have ever suggested that they ignore the book. I would just like to see a little balance!
Let's try to put things into a little perspective. According to the United Church of God, Luke and Paul wrote the majority of the New Testament. (See https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/bible-questions-and-answers/did-paul-write-most-of-the-new-testament) That being the case, would it be unreasonable to suggest that a majority of the Church's messaging derive from those sources?
Likewise, The Holy Word Church of God informs us that there are about 179,000 words in the New Testament, and that there are about 12,000 words in the book of Revelation. (See https://holyword.church/miscellaneous-resources/how-many-words-in-each-book-of-the-bible/) If I'm doing my math calculations correctly, that means the book of Revelation accounts for just under 7% of the messaging of the New Testament. So, would it be inappropriate to suggest that Revelation not be given a bigger slice of the Church's message than that? By the way, we haven't even talked about the over 609,000 words that appear in the writings of the Old Testament!
One of the things that cults do is to somehow try to make you feel "special".
Thus all kinds of machinations and blow hard proclamations from the top on down, whether they be the Head Prophet/Elijah/Apsotlle etc. , or that you are a specially chosen , future king, etc member.
Truth is in life, is that the world and its environs doesnt recognize you as "jack dididily" and you are quickly forgotten in all manners of social construct. Even if you achieve success, you must constantly be "climbing the rock" to stay relevant. Instinctively, we all know the truth of this, and even the Bible confirms the futility of life in the book of Ecclesiastes.
Cults can maintain an unreasonable power over people by being the only place of "ego reinforcement" that somehow you have meaning and/or some kind of status. Getting free of such , is learning that they have value to God, without any outside confirmation or stroking from other humans. It is a lonely journey, but one that is true and worthwhile.
According to Revelation 9:18, one third of the world's population will perish. With a world population of 8 billion people, that's over 2 billion people.
Lonnie seems to trivialize this with his desire for "balance" and pointing out that the book has only about 12,000 words.
As a human being, it's obvious that these people need to be warned, because the horror fest is the result of grievous sins. Sins that can be repented of, which would spare this generation, just like Nineveh's repentance spared their generation.
I know that every belief is eventually challenged, but I'm surprised that someone familiar with Revelation would deny billions the opportunity to repent and save their lives.
Herbert Armstrong gave you boys the truth during the worldwide Church of God, but you boys sold it for your mainstream doctrines, now you are drowning in sin because of it.
Anon1009, the COGs have done next to nothing to warn people. Many denominations are aware of Revelation and teach it at times. But, they also point out that each of our end-times are the lives we are currently living. Revelation is not necessary for salvation. How many turned away from Christianity entirely due to the focus on Revelation and date setting? And all the COG end-time warnings of the last 90 years have not really applied to about 1.5 generations (and counting) that have largely passed away, but a focus on the Gospel and salvation through Christ directly applies to those 1.5 generations and those alive today.
Focus on the active work of Christ in our daily lives is where the fruit has been for many centuries, not a 3.5 year period that none reading this may live to see.
Anon 2-15 at 10:12
Your full of crap. HWA gave us his ideas and his spin on how he read the bible. He took ideas from other religions and claimed they had been revealed to him by god. He never gave credit to other authors when he stole their works. He used his radio voice to scare people into believing the end of the world was near. His backdrop was WWII. Later in the 70-80s he fleeced the flock to aggrandize his own lifestyle. WCG was all about him. He lived the lifestyle of a dictator king. He was a con artist. Glad I left his cult.
Jim
HWA and other cults turned Revelation into a tool of terror religion. At the same time they fed their members spiritual milk and ran their churches like North Korea. So I'm not defending these groups, but the book of Revelation was written for a reason. A healthy respect for its contents is appropriate, and there must come a time when the body of evidence will point to its fulfillment being near.
Anonymous 10:09 wrote, "According to Revelation 9:18, one third of the world's population will perish. With a world population of 8 billion people, that's over 2 billion people."
Who knows what John of Patmos was actually writing about? I am not willing to try to interpret this. Check with Revelation 8 and you will see that the fraction "one third" is used over and over again - like a repeated symbol rather than an actual statistic. The riders were first referred to as cavalry and then later as plagues. The language is apocalyptic. And John of Patmos refers in verse 9:17 to his "vision." If someone came to me with a vision the first thing I would ask is: Was its meaning real or imaginary? We can't ask John of Patmos that question. So, we are missing a huge piece of data that goes directly to the meaning and relevancy of this verse. The scripture refers to an event, whether in the earthly of spirit realm, but we don't have the data to interpret it. We don't know when it might happen. How can we assemble anything but a very soft, indeterminate warning?
Revelation has a checkered history. Certain Patristics accepted it and others rejected it. Given a context that is this fraught with uncertainty, I would not go out on a limb in ascribing a meaning to this verse. Unless you're Gerald Waterhouse, of course.
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"Matt. 24:22 warned that no flesh would be saved unless God intervened in WW3."
Nice! Ranks right up there with the belief that Jesus and the disciples used the King James version of the Bible and spoke King James English
The Bible does not mention WW3. It does make reference to Armageddon. HWA thought and taught that World War II would culminate in the Battle of Armageddon, and when the Allies actually won the war, he began to state that Hitler had gone into hiding and would return to reunite Germany and lead them into World War III. And then he didn't. Darn, another example of what a lousy penis extender prophecy actually is!
4.52 PM
I looked up 5 different translations of Matthew 24:22, and they all say that no person would survive.
Believe it or not, many people are exercising their minds rather than blindly believing HWA. People observe this world's condition, read what their bible says, and conclude that Christ's return is near, which includes the horrors of Revelation. HWA has nothing to do with this.
I get the impression that some here believe that if no one believes in the book of Revelation, its prophesies will magically go away. The magic thinking thingy.
"I get the impression that some here believe that if no one believes in the book of Revelation, its prophesies will magically go away. The magic thinking thingy."
The irony of this statement- that people who do not believe in magical fantasies are taking part in magical thinking- is mindblowing.
So the warning words of Jesus mean nothing to you then ? Figures.
Anonymous 9:59 wrote, "I looked up 5 different translations of Matthew 24:22, and they all say that no person would survive."
You have to look not at an individual word but at the context in scripture.
This is an important exegesis because the entire structure of Millerite end time prophecy hangs on it. How are apocalyptic Millerites able to proclaim type-antitype, former fulfillment and latter fulfillment, with some kind of Biblical support? They use Matthew 24:22. Their argument is that only in our time has the capability arrived to destroy all of mankind through the use of nuclear weapons. Hence, we are right now in the end times. Now I will go into why this is an erroneous interpretation.
1. The entire context surround Matthew 24:22 is local and tied to events soon to happen in Jerusalem in 70 AD (excluding the Parousia which is a separate an indeterminate chronology). Why would Jesus describe an agenda of local, "Sitz im Leben" events and then veer off in one statement to an event of global significance that will happen 2,000 years later? This has the decisive appearance of a singular appropriation by end-time prophecy weenies. The dissimilarity from scriptural context is glaring. The statement, harmonized with its context, refers to an extraordinary death rate to happen in the locale of Jerusalem. The unjustified over-extension of this idea is just Spokesman-Clubby melodrama.
2. Let us assume, against our better judgment, that Matthew 24:22 did refer to a time in the future when worldwide nuclear destruction would be possible. That marks the beginning of an era. Nobody knows when in that era such a destruction might take place. The apocalyptic Millerite assumption is that it has to happen immediately. Were this interpretation of Matthew 24:22 actually Biblical, it still might take hundreds or thousands of years for a crisis to occur that might lead to the destruction of all flesh. Jesus didn't say anything that ties this to a certain point in the future - like the time of HWA.
3. If this is about type-antitype, where is the type? There should have been a former fulfillment and then a later fulfillment. How do you kill off all flesh on earth twice?
Mankind has already used nuclear weapons. I would not be surprised if they are used in the future. I doubt that they will kill off everybody. We have had natural calamities in the past like the Chicxulub impactor that killed most but not all of the dinosaurs and proto-mammals. This interpretation of Matthew 24:22, without any credible exegesis I might add, just does not sell.
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anon 759, have a mild knowledge of Revelation, but I think it is largely a waste of time to try to interpret allegories, images, visions, and prophesies. I yet do not know anyone who has saved his skin from doing so. A teaching far more important to me is, "well, who can be saved?" Jesus: "For man it is impossible. For God all things are possible."
I've read Rev several times and know it better than most, but I'm not going to fixate on it. What do you specifically want someone to do with Revelation?? Spend another 90 years saying "Repent! the end is near"? The Bible is filled with admonitions to repent. I don't need to add eschatological trappings to it.
If you are like most cog members, I suspect the predictions you have heard and the identities of images in Revelation you have heard will prove to be wrong.
Stay close to God, don't fret over Revelation. God protects and saves much better than a mix of incorrect and correct interpretations of Revelation.
I tried to post this earlier and apparently did something wrong:
Let's talk about "the warning words of Jesus." Christ did warn his disciples to "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees" - meaning their beliefs and teachings (Matthew 16:6-12 and Mark 8:15). He also warned against imitating their craving for attention and praise (Mark 12:38 and Luke 20:46).
As for the twenty-fourth chapter of Matthew, we should note that Christ's remarks there were a response to some questions that his disciples asked him regarding 1) the destruction of the temple, 2) the timing and signs associated with his return, and 3) the timeline and signs associated with the end of the age (verses 1-3). In responding, notice that his very first instruction to them was that they must not allow themselves to be deceived by folks who claim to have inside knowledge about the timing and nature of those events (verses 4-5 and 23-26). Interestingly, in terms of the timing and nature of the events, Christ doesn't give them a great deal of detail and information - he provides a very general kind of summation of what would happen (verses 6-22 and 29-35). WHY? Why this vague description? Because "no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows" (verse 36). As a consequence, he reinforced the point that they should be ready at all times (verses 37-51). In other words, the entire thesis of Christ's remarks in this passage of Scripture is to NOT listen to the folks who think they have the inside track on the timing and manner of these events! Which indicates to me that the ACOGs messaging on this subject should be IGNORED by anyone who is truly interested in this topic!
Absolutely correct, Lonnie! And nobody knows because the decision is not based on a preordained mathematical formula which some special person discovers later on in history. The decision is a judgment call made by Father God when He sees that humanity has reached the point of no return, and would destroy themselves, the planet, or both. We can't know the timeline leading up to the timeline of the final countdown outlined in Revelation. The reason for that is that God is a merciful God who leaves room for repentance. Only when God has made His decision will we know the timeline, because that's when Revelation kicks in with the specifics. How is it that the ACOGs could not realize this? The failure of all their math-based timelines should have made this perfectly obvious to them by this point in time.
I am not 7:15 but I'd take a wildcard guess, does more than one author write as NEO?
At times the comments are all over the show giving the impression of differing personalities at play.
Criticism on another's writing skills will never fair well in the long run. It reveals a patronising and condemning almost sneering attitude of personality. A trait that could get you recognised in the real world.
Who love to patronise and sneer down on others ?
NEO writes:
“This is an important exegesis because the entire structure of Millerite end time prophecy hangs on it. How are apocalyptic Millerites able to proclaim type-antitype, former fulfillment and latter fulfillment, with some kind of Biblical support? They use Matthew 24:22.”
Could you please define an “apocalyptic” Millerite?
From the quotes and resumes below, would you include Robert Mounce and Michael Wilkins as “apocalyptic Millerites”?
"It is not uncommon for prophetic material to move between type and antitype without calling attention to exactly what is happening" (Robert H. Mounce, Matthew, NIBC, (Peabody: Hendrickson Publishers, 1991), p.222).
"The fall of Jerusalem becomes a type of the great and final tribulation that, if God should not intervene, would bring an end to the human race" (Robert H. Mounce, Matthew, NIBC, p.225).
"While the time of the siege and destruction of Jerusalem was horrible, Matthew description here indicates a time of tribulation that did not occur during the fall of Jerusalem. The horrors that fell on the Jewish people and on the entire world with the two world wars of the twentieth century are a sombre warning that the devastation that comes from humanity's unleashed depravity will yet be unequalled. The vison Jesus paints must yet be ahead. The apostle John reveals such a future time of incredible horror (Rev. 7-19)" (Michael J. Wilkins, Matthew, NIVAC, (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2004), p.780).
From Wikipedia:
Robert Hayden Mounce ... was an American New Testament scholar, and president emeritus of Whitworth University in Spokane, Washington.
... During the Second World War, he served as a dive bomber pilot in the Naval Air Corps (1943–1946). After the war, he taught public school and served as a missionary in Guatemala, where he was director of the Christian radio station TGNA...
Mounce graduated with a BA in music in 1953 from the University of Washington, and he also studied at Multnomah School of the Bible. He earned a ThM in New Testament from Fuller Theological Seminary, and a PhD from the University of Aberdeen. Mounce taught at Bethel College and Seminary and was Dean of the Arts and Humanities Department at Western Kentucky University before becoming president of Whitworth College. After retiring from Whitworth, Dr. Mounce served as the senior pastor of Christ Community Church, Walnut Creek, California, until 1991.
Mounce wrote commentaries on Revelation..., Romans..., and Matthew... He was a member of the translation teams for the New International Version, the New Living Translation, and the English Standard Version.
From Theopdia:
Michael J. Wilkins is Distinguished Professor of New Testament Language and Literature and Dean of the Faculty at Talbot School of Theology, Biola University in La Mirada, CA. He specializes in New Testament Theology, Christology, and discipleship.
"Dr. Wilkins was among 12 scholars who were invited to attend a meeting of the "Jesus Study Group," held July 20-25, 2005 at the University of Tübingen, Germany. The group, sponsored by the Institute for Biblical Research, is an evangelical think-tank that examines and defends the historical authenticity of events in the life of Jesus. Dr. Wilkins presented a paper on 'The Confession by Peter of Jesus as Messiah.'" (Biola Connections, Winter 2006, p.25)
Education
Ph.D., Fuller Theological Seminary
Dissertation title: "The Concept of Disciple in Matthew’s Gospel: As Reflected in the Use of the Term maqhths"
M.Div., Talbot Theological Seminary
B.A., Biola College
NEO, in a previous post you said: “Great Tribulation weenies should get a life”.
What more do you think people like Mounce and Wilkins could do to get a life?
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