Friday, March 31, 2023

Bob Thiel Lists Steps Of Repentance He Requires For You To Be In His Kingdom


The bullshit artist is back with another list of things that his followers must do to make it into the kingdom he imagines is coming. 

More things to DO. 

The Bible is clear that one must repent to be a Christian. And Christians must examine themselves and repent annually, but also be willing to confess their sins and repent whenever they are aware that they have sinned. 
Here isa listing of some scriptures about this repentance: 
Mark 1:14-15 Act 2:38 — we are commanded to repent, which means to change from our way to God’s way. 
Romans 2:4 Acts 11:18 — repentance must be granted by God, who calls according to His will. 
Romans 6: 23– the wages of sin is death. 
2 Corinthians 7:8-11 — sorrow that produces true repentance is far different than mere worldly sorrow. 
Matthew 7:21 Hebrews 5:9 — salvation requires obedience to God. Jeremiah 10:23 — we cannot obey God without His help. 
2 Peter 3:9, 18 — spiritual growth is a process and doesn’t happen all at once. 1 John 1:8-10 
Christians will still have issues they need to repent of and ask forgiveness for. 
Psalm 51 –repentance is often accompanied by deep emotion. 
The importance of repentance cannot be overemphasized. It is a first step toward salvation.

Bob conveniently wants to forget Jesus and the thief on the cross next to him. No long list of things to do. No deathbed confession. No annual day of repentance! 

It just irritates the hell out of these church leaders and the rabid legalists in the church that people do not need to jump through all of these hoops. 

They do not care much for the bible stories of the laborers in the field who all get paid the same amount whether they have toiled all day or do half an hour of work to get the same wage. 

They sure as hell do not like the fact the thief on the cross did not have to go through the rigamarole of Armstrongite mythology or Bobism to be saved. 

He wasn't baptized. 

He did not need a "deathbed" repentance.

He did not need an annual Passover service.

He did not need to read Mystery of the Ages. 

He did not need to be under church government.  

He did not even need to read the Bible. 

Even in all the agony he was in, his brain was able to fire and open his mind to something amazing happening next to him. He got it. He got something that Bob Thiel is totally incapable of understanding.


DW said...

The last paragraph of this article got me! Absolutely true and beautifully stated. The thief on the Cross SAW Almighty God hanging, in agony, and he GOT IT! I loved the line that the thief didn't need to read Mystery of the Ages! No, nobody should put that satanic sewage into their minds.

The thief got it and believed Jesus and WAS SAVED. Done. Finished. Perfect. Thank you Jesus! Now, if only Bob could see that. He is missing everything. Everything. To us believers, Jesus is everything. We can rest, eternal salvation guaranteed, because we believe He did everything necessary to save us. What could anyone possibly add to that?? And before anyone cries easy believism, I am not advocating for that. But it is the finished work of Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith. Praise God!

Finally, Bob should have added another must do to his mad lib style list...renounce the works of Satan. Whoops, that might be tricky for old Bob now!

Anonymous said...

No2hwa, is this your written post about Bob Thiel, or is it someone else’s post who is not named?

Either way, it shows a very poor understanding of what the Bible itself teaches, and what was taught at AC.

Bob Thiel has his problems, and I’ve told him so in some email posts. But, the nonsense on this site in low class language and pseudo anger certainly keeps pace with the errors of those being criticized here. It is very much the kettle calling the pot black. A coin with two sides that are the same rotten images.

Oh, my, will someone please stand up and give some rational, positive, inspiring, helpful criticisms here, along with a real example of what brotherly concern and love is all about?

It is real easy to pick on someone else’s faults or failings, but almost impossible to also include the other person’s strengths. I’m reading a book about writing. It speaks to the tendency for most to write derogatory comments about personalities. Why? Because, as the author says, that is the EASIEST form of writing. Which is necessary for people today who have been programmed by our educational system not to be able to read, write, or do math.

There are four books on this topic that perfectly describes the writing here, and the problems of the splinter groups.
1. Why Johnny Can’t Read
2. Why Johnny Still Can’t Read
3. Why Johnny Still Can’t Read, Write, Do Math, and what to do about it
4. Why Johnny Can’t Preach

The last one shows the rest of Christianity has the same problems you criticize here. But, you only criticize the WCG groups, and tell them they should be more like the other Christians, yet they are also failing. Some comparison don’t cha know.

This site could become a good example of what right Biblical conduct should and could be. But, will it? It is up to ya’ll, ya know.

And, life goes on, so they say. Stand tall.

Anonymous said...

The thief on the cross narrative never happened. Nobody has conversations like that when being crucified. They just suffer in agony.

But Herb believed in deathbed repentance when it came to his own father.

Anonymous said...

It seems all Jesus said to the thief was that after their death, their spirits will be in heaven/paradise. After that both will be resurrected but not at the same time.

Anonymous said...

The bible is full of contradictions. The matter of the deathbed repentance is one of them. Some scriptures support it while others are dead set against it. Because of all the contradictions, so-called deep bible study is really just an exercise in text proofing and in explaining away all the scriptures that don't support a particular point of view.

Anonymous said...

AC was wrong.

James said...

Bobby Thiel is just another Nigerian scammer. Fuck'em.

Anonymous said...

Are you serious 10:33. Since when were HWA/WCG's derivative, heretical views on soteriology taken seriously by actual scholars?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Are you serious 10:33. Since when were HWA/WCG's derivative, heretical views on soteriology taken seriously by actual scholars?

Of course I am serious. Did you not read the posts after mine? Including the one with the gutter talk?

Where did I mention scholars in my post?

Stand tall physically, mentally and spiritually. Have a good day.

Anonymous said...

Here’s a nice example from Why Johnny Can’t Preach.
Speaking about the Christian ministry.

“ When a church in that presbytery called a certain minister, I asked this particular elder (after I had heard the minister preach) why they had hired a man who didn’t appear to be able to preach. The elder in question was known by all to be one of the most charitable, compassionate men in the entire presbytery, so I was stunned by his answer: “David, of course he can’t preach; but I’ve served on pulpit committees off and on for thirty years, and nobody can preach. We just look for men who are gifted in other areas, and who are orthodox, but we accept from the outset of the search that we are not likely to find a person who can preach.”


Anonymous said...

John told the Pharisees in Matthew 3:8 "Bear fruits worthy of repentance.." So it's more than just Christ's sacrifice. God will not allow wife beaters into His kingdom.

Anonymous said...

It's always so amusing when Armstrongites come here, blow a few of their spiritual farts, and expect us to accept such toxic fumes as correction or timeless wisdom.

Sorry guys. We've done what we should have done back when we first heard HWA and/or GTA. We have dug deeper, and asked the tough questions. Normally, that would be adequate. However, we've also had decades to observe the continued failure of Armstrongism in every measurable way.

Oh, and AC? More like Embarrassing College.

Anonymous said...

However, we've also had decades to observe the continued failure of Armstrongism in every measurable way.

Oh, and AC? More like Embarrassing College.

Friday, March 31, 2023 at 7:06:00 PM PDT


No, you have seen the failure of human beings. Nothing new in your denials.

Your “review” of AC lacks any real substance.

What have you done to make you an expert on HWA, COG, AC, WWCG, ETC. And, what have you done to be a better example of those denigrated on this site?

By the way, in my 10 years at AC, HWA, GTA, and others never acted to me, or treated me like is done here to others.

Can critics accept criticism? Of course, they can really dish it out.

By the way, I left the Worldwde decades ago. What took you folks so long?

Earl said...

Your responses are weird. You seem to be smug in your version of rationality, but everything you say is riddled with holes and presumptions.

I’ll say decades spent in wcg/ac/splinters has made me an expert. Your comments are so presumptuous, so self approving, so void of Christian love, and so without reason you sound like Pack himself.

Anonymous said...

Full of yourself, 8:50? I left in 1975.

Axially (and possibly radially as well) Armstrongism was defined to the members as causing transcendent behavior in human beings. So, yeah. We've watched the failure of the human beings in which the transcendent behavior was supposed to have been made manifest. That's kind of a big failure of the whole system, n'est ce pas? Like faulty product?

Also, we've encountered lots of people who claim they left the group, but really just resorted to keeping all the doctrines privately. That's not really leaving. You wouldn't happen to be one of them pesky little critters, now wouldja?

Anonymous said...

Ummm, the thief on the cross was not saved. Paradise is the second resurrection, which occurs after the millennium. The earth will be in pristine condition after a thousand years of Jesus Christ ruling and people coming to the realization that His way is best.
The "rest of the dead" are then resurrected, which includes the thief on the cross (and all of those that lived during the millennium). That is when they have their opportunity for salvation.

DW said...

Oh dear, Anon @5:42. Yikes. Yes the thief on the Cross was saved! Jesus said to the thief "Truly, truly, I say to you TODAY you will be with me in Paradise". Paradise is a location, not a resurrection. It is the name for the place where all believers (prior to Jesus's death, burial and resurrection) went, the instant they died. The unbelievers went to the place called Torment. After the resurrection of Christ, He emptied Paradise and took those saints with Him to Heaven. Torment is still where unbelievers are held captive until their resurrection, whereupon they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

James said...

Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 5:42:00 AM PDT
wrote: Ummm, the thief on the cross was not saved.

Then Jesus lied. Correct? Or maybe he didn't know what he was talking about...
"Today you will be with me in paradise"

Tonto said...

Thiel is correct in regards to the scriputaral references that he quotes.

Where he gets thing really messed up is when he makes the equation, Jesus plus The Scriptures plus The Thiel Continuing Drama Church of God with him as the Head Prophet.

Anonymous said...

Dude! Difficult to tell with all the anonymi, but it appears possible that if it's a discussion just between the two of us, I was right. You just corrected us at 5:42 with more Armstrongism, which means that while you claim to have left, you left to become one of the "independents", which is not really leaving.

Another thing. Who do you think we are denegrating on this site. We love all the different races here, and appreciate their natural cultures. It was Herbert W. Armstrong who advocated black people stripping themselves of their negro characteristics and acting white, not any of us!

BP8 said...

Many views on "the thief on the cross" are representative of the liberal ploy where THE EXCEPTION BECOMES THE NORM!

Here we have one guy, who by the Grace of God, is given great honor and mercy, and because of his unique situation, we can now discard 99% of what the Bible says about God's plan of salvation for the rest of humanity! Yes, really!

This happens all the time. Watch C-Span for yourselves and see the mindset behind some of the proposals and rejection of new laws!

And no, he's not presently in Paradise. When Paradise DOES COME (see Luke 23:42), THEN he will have access to the tree of life (see Rev. 2:7).

Anonymous said...

12.49 am
By transcendent behavior I assume you mean what the bible calls being blameless. But this involves members making the decision to go down the straight and narrow rather than giving themselves all manner of perks. This isn't a failure of Armstrongism or any other denomination. It's a purely personal decision that every individual makes.
In my my experience, few HWA members made the right choice.

DW said...

Don't forget the Phillipian jailor. He too was saved the moment he believed. Salvation is NOT a multi step process as Bob argues. It is a supernatural act of God, in an instant. Salvation and justification are received the moment we put our full faith and weight behind the finished work of Christ.

Now, I do agree that sanctification is a process we undergo until our deaths, but not salvation. I appreciate BP8 pointing out that there are, in fact, exceptions in Scripture. God is Sovereign and can do whatever He pleases, without input from any of us! I disagree with your take on Paradise for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is because that is saying Jesus lied, but I wish you the best.

Anonymous said...

People, if you remember correctly, in the WCG booklet about Lk 23:43, we put the punctuation mark after "day", meaning that it wasn't going to happen right after their deaths. Even Christ wasn't in paradise that day because He would be in the grave for three days before ascending to the Father. (Jn 20:17) Essentially, this was a prophecy from the Lord as an affirmation of his repentance and faith in Christ's message about the kingdom. The fact that the thief KNEW that Christ would overcome death inspired this hope. The same hope exists for us if we repent of our many sins in the church. If we don't, someone else (a neighbour, friend or relative) will take our place.

Anonymous said...

This crap bores me. I'd rather have a discussion about Dylan's "Desolation Row" and the verses that seem to apply to Armstrongism.

BP8 said...


I don't know where you get your Theology. It's definitely not the Bible! I noticed you had no scriptural references for anything you stated.

Anonymous said...

“ This crap bores me. I”

Oh boo boo. And yet here you are reading it. If you don’t like something don’t read it. This is the current perverted face of Armstrongism.

Anonymous said...

I noticed you had no scriptural references for anything you stated.

Yeah. Quote some fairy tales so we can put your words to the test!

Anonymous said...

The bible is full of contradictions. That's why the thief on the cross issue cannot be reconciled with many other scriptures. Those who can't see that obvious point must resort to distorted reasoning.

Anonymous said...

Oh boo boo. And yet here you are reading it. If you don’t like something don’t read it.

Oh boo boo. If you don’t like his comments, don't read them.

Anonymous said...

No, 12:24, I'm referring to a flowing of the fruits of the Holy Spirit, something which Armstrongism's leaders and practitioners often faked, but never really had. Blamelessness comes from being forgiven. Having the nature of God from that point on is transcendence. It's not something you can fake, or orchestrate by willpower. It is a gift from God.

Insisting that Armstrong-church members or leaders actually have or had this is about as ridiculous as insisting that David Pack has the gift of prophecy. (Or Bob Thiel, Ron Weinland, or Gerald Flurry).

There is really nothing special about Armstrongism. All it is is the enforcement of cherry picked laws by people who claim to have God's authority. That is not the fruits of the Holy Spirit, it is the fruits of an ultra conservative, obsessive-compulsive view of the Bible.

DW said...

To BP8, I will gladly respond to your charge, respectfully. Matthew 27:51-53. "Suddenly the curtain in the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quakes, boulders split, tombs opened. Many bodies of saints who had fallen asleep were raised. AFTER Jesus resurrection, they came forth from their tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many". Just where do you think they went? Disneyland? Luke 23:42-43, speaking to the thief on the Cross, "He then said, Jesus remember me when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus replied, Truly, truly I assure you:this day you will be with Me in Paradise". Jesus used that exact phrase "truly, truly I say to you or verily, verily I tell you many times. The comma was not put in the wrong place! Romans 3:21-24 "But now the justice of God has been manifested apart from the law, even though both the law and the prophets bear witness to it-that justice of God which works through FAITH in Jesus Christ for all who believe. All men have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God. All men ARE NOW UNDESERVEDLY JUSTIFIED BY THE GIFT OF GOD, through the redemption wrought in Christ Jesus". Romans 4:5 "But when a man does nothing, yet believes in Him who JUSTIFIES the sinful, his faith IS credited to him as justice". Romans 5:1-3. Now that we HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED by faith, we ARE AT PEACE with our Lord Jesus Christ. Through Him we HAVE GAINED access by faith to the grace in which we now stand.". Romans 8:30 "Those he predestined, he likewise called:those he called he likewise JUSTIFIED and those he justified, he in turn glorified". Romans 10:4 " Christ is the END OF THE LAW. Through Him,justice comes to everyone who believes." Romans 10:9-12. For if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Faith in the heart leads to justification, confession on the lips to salvation". And, 2 Cor 5:6-10," Therefore, we continue to be confident. We know that while we dwell in the body, we are away from the Lord. We walk by faith, not by sight. I repeat, we are full of confidence and would much rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. This being so, we make it our aim to please Him, whether we are with Him or away from Him". And, finally, the Apostle Paul, speaking about himself in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, "I know a man in Christ, who 14 years ago, whether he was in or outside his body I cannot say, only God can say: a man who was snatched up to the third Heaven. I know this man-whether in or outside his body I do not know, only God knows was SNATCHED UP TO PARADISE to hear words which cannot be uttered, which no man may speak".

That is just a fraction of my theology and a fraction of the verses I could cite to support my beliefs. So, there you go.

Anonymous said...

Written by 9:02, who begins with the song “Hey Dude…”

Anonymous said...
Dude! Difficult to tell with all the anonymi, but it appears possible that if it's a discussion just between the two of us, I was right. You just corrected us at 5:42 with more Armstrongism, which means that while you claim to have left, you left to become one of the "independents", which is not really leaving.

Another thing. Who do you think we are denegrating on this site. We love all the different races here, and appreciate their natural cultures. It was Herbert W. Armstrong who advocated black people stripping themselves of their negro characteristics and acting white, not any of us!

Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 9:02:00 AM PDT

1. No I didn’t write that. Another perfect example of how too many here grasp at their own incorrect assumptions.

2. I think you are doing the same with your assumptions about HWA and those of the “black” race.

Both of those points exemplify the message in the four books I listed. You might learn something about the dumbing down of the folks living today by our educational system. But, of course that might be too much to handle.

Thankfully, I was out of the country during the 1940’s and 50’s when the changes began to have a big impact here in the USA. Those six years were spent in the military schools for the children of our military servicemen stationed overseas. Because of that I was always ahead of the students in my junior and senior years.

My Dad, unknown to me at the time, had already made arrangements for me to go to West Point. However, I wanted to go to AC instead, and did. I don’t regret a minute of it.

My final comment on this subject is this: please take a look at those four books. They clearly explain the source of the problems the Worldwide ran into, and the splinter groups, and Christianity, and the masses today. If you do read them you will find an eye opening insight that will be very difficult to honestly ignore.

Great discussion, and, Stand Tall Mentally, Physically and Spiritually.

Anonymous said...

Oh, those are actual titles to actual books? The titles led me to believe they were joke titles that you made up, that is until I did a duck duck go search on "Why Johnny Can't Preach", and learned that apparently T. David Gordon blames the media. Obviously I immediately began to wonder if he was a disciple of the late comedian Rush Limbaugh.

But, anyway, I digress. You see, I don't accept reading assignments from people who think I have a problem. I identify my own problems, and seek appropriate reading materials which I believe might potentially be of help. Some of my problems were caused by a childhood and young adulthood spent in Arnstrongism and at Embarrassing College. Others, I was born with, and some I made for myself. I left in 1975, am now 75, have managed to avoid many of life's pitfalls and have had a fairly successful life thanks to a good work ethic and some valuable job skills. Of my own volition, I never would have bought into the whole "having a guru" thing, that's something my WCG parental units hung on me. Anyone who has any intelligence at all should be their own guru. To thine self be true!

Anonymous said...

My favorite in the series is Why Johnny does Drugs and Plays Basketball

Anonymous said...

@DW & James

"Oh dear, Anon @5:42. Yikes. Yes the thief on the Cross was saved! Jesus said to the thief "Truly, truly, I say to you TODAY you will be with me in Paradise". Paradise is a location, not a resurrection."

Ummm, Paradise must be the grave, according to your logic. That's where Jesus was "TODAY", the day He said that.

Keep in mind that the Greek has no punctuation, and the KJV translators missed the mark there.

BP8 said...

I know you can quote Scripture, but I was primarily looking for evidence that believers go to paradise when they die, then off to heaven, and that unbelievers go to torment, then off to the lake of fire. That's quite a scenario. I'm going to assume it is based on a combination of the "thief on the cross" incident and the parable on Lazarus and the rich man. That's fine, I just believe there are many other scriptures that explain this in a different light!

Also, concerning the keeper of the prison who was saved without any multi step process. If you read carefully Acts 16:31-34, we see that after being told to believe on Jesus Christ, Paul followed up with a full explanation of the word of the Lord (vs32) which resulted in the jailer being compelled to be BAPTIZED! (vs34)

That speaks volumes!

Anonymous said...

For those who have repented of sin and trusted in Christ as Lord and Savior, God declares them right before him on the basis of Christ’s righteousness and substitutionary death (Rom. 3:21–26; 5:1; 8:1, 30, 33–34).

As a declarative act of God and not a process by which we are infused with righteousness, justification takes place in the believer once for all time (Rom. 5:12–21; Phil. 3:8–9; 2 Cor. 5:19–21).

Forgiven once and for all. Made a new creation who WANTS to live rightly. Annual repentance was for the Old Covenant, not the new.

Anonymous said...

In the quote below the Greek has been transliterated into English:

“Originally the Bible was written in all capital letters without punctuation, accent marks, or spaces between the words. John 1:1 began, ENARCHEENOLOGOS. Capital letters, or “majuscules,” were used until the sixth century A.D.... In Greek texts today, John 1:1 begins, En arche en o logos” (William D. Mounce, Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar, p.8).

Anonymous said...

If salvation is instant as so many seem to be proposing, and once you have it that's it, as well as what the author wrote regarding not even needing to know the Bible etc. then how does that mesh with Jesus saying what was written in Matthew 7:13-14

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

It says it's difficult and few find it! If all you have to do is believe, then that's easy! Even the demons believe and tremble!

Many hate reading James, just as Martin Luther did.

James 2:18-24

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [f]your works, and I will show you my faith by [g]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [h]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [i]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [j]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

It's far more than just believing. You need to change. This isn't a defence of Bob Thiel, but a defence of the way of God. The law shows love, and I don't believe God removed love.

Anonymous said...

But, in the movie "Ghost" with Patrick Swayze, Demi Moore, Whoopie Goldberg and Tony Goldwyn, when the bad guys died, these demon creatures showed up immediately and carried off their souls presumably to hell. And then at the end, once he's fulfilled his mission, Patrick Swayze walks into the light to be with the angels in heaven. The same thing happens to the departed that Jennifer Love Hewitt assists in Ghost Whisperer.

So, I think you guys with your soul sleep have got it wrong. And if you need further corroboration, Google Revelation 6:9.

Anonymous said...

Luke 9:62 "No one who puts his hand on the plow and then turns back IS WORTHY OF THE kINGDOM."
So Christ's sacrifice or enduring Dave Packs rants is not a ticket into the kingdom.

Mark Wolfe said...

John MacArthur of Grace To You Church had a great sermon entitled "Taking the Mystery out of Knowing God's Will."

First he states God has a will for himself, and, obviously will carry that to pass.

But God also has a purpose for each of us. And it is all the same.

1. God wants us to be saved.
2. God wants us spirit filled.
3. God wants us to be sanctified.
4. God wants us to be submissive to authorities.
5. God wants us to be thankful.
6. God wants us to suffer for DOING the right things.

Anonymous said...

The Bible is clear that one must repent to be a Christian. And Christians must examine themselves and REPENT ANNUALLY but also be willing to confess their sins and repent whenever they are aware that they have sinned.

There is a better way! It is the gospel, which Theil dose not unerstand....

Hebrews 7:23-27 NASB The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, 24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. 25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. 26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He DID ONCE for all when He offered up Himself.

James 1:27 NASB Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Anonymous said...

Of course the ACOGs want us to "suffer for doing the right thing," since it's the abusive ministers who are doing the abusing. The bastard ministry never mention that their members have a right to be treated with civility and be free from violence and deception.

Anonymous said...

Keep in mind that the Greek has no punctuation

God was kind of dumb to use Greek then. Why didn't He get the Greeks to invent punctuation so everyone would know what He was trying to say? Sounds like God is the author of confusion.

Anonymous said...

We were always taught in WCG that God had allowed His perfect word to be preserved for the benefit of those of us living in the end times, so that we could know His truth, without doubt. And then, they took perhaps the most important issue to the Christian, and expected us to believe that God allowed a comma to be in the wrong place in the King James version of the Bible, the "official" Bible of "God's true church", which HWA, "God's apostle" had to correct so that it would support "soul sleep".

And that was not all! They also had to spin the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, and Rev. 6:9. Well, not spin. They pretty much rejected any scripture which countered soul sleep as being anomalous. It was also very curious that the Samuel called up by the Witch of Endor spoke exactly as Samuel!

Anonymous said...

The limitations of any language is not an issue if all the scriptures on any subject are studied.

Anonymous said...

I don't know that what you say about the languages is true. You are repeating one of HWA's mantras, but scholars have been arguing about these meanings for millennia. Hebrew was a dead language up until a little over 100 years ago. The priests of Jesus' day spoke it, but Jesus and the disciples spoke Aramaic, and those who were Helenized spoke Greek. Also, the very act of translation automatically produces a paraphrase.

To know the meanings of the scriptures you would literally need someone who was like Herbert W. Armstrong claimed to be, an Apostle who was guided by God. Sadly, such a person does not exist during our times, as all the pretenders have proven over and over and over again.

Anonymous said...

I posted the comment at 11:17 last night. Upon reading it this morning, I thought I should clarify. Herbert Armstrong was in no way "that person", either. His life proves that he was just another man with opinions, and no special insights from God. His error continues to negatively impact those who insist that he was a quasi-Biblical character who was stylized as "God's Apostle", and the nostalgia groups who continue to laud him have long since descended into ridiculousness.

Anonymous said...

It always strikes me that those in the COGs think they are performing works. Works are not sabbath keeping, not eating pork, and the like. They are the actions you take due to the holy Spirit living in you. Not a full definition, but just saying that it is not doing "the Law".

My point is that sabbath keeping, avoiding unclean foods, and going on an 8 day "vacation" with friends is easy easy religion. Stop acting like works apply to you and not other Christians. Faith without works is dead, but the easiest "works" are those that the COGs puff themselves up about.

BP8 said...

No anon 411, God is not the author of confusion. He clearly gives us all the answers we need, the who, what, where, when, why and how of all important beliefs.

Confusion results when we reject that revelation and base doctrine on parables and visions!