Naked Bible 195: Is Christmas a Pagan Holiday?
There is much discussion online at this time of year as to the presumed pagan origins of Christmas. December 25, we are told, was a date stolen from pagan worship, specifically from the festival of the “Birth of the Unconquered Sun” (Sol Invictus)? Should Christians have Christmas trees? Aren’t trees pagan objects of worship? How should Christians think about, and respond to, such questions? Do these questions have any relationship to the content of Scripture? Listen to find out.
Links and sources:
William Tighe, “Calculating Christmas: The Story Behind Dec 25” Touchstone Magazine (December, 2003)
Thomas J. Talley, The Origins of the Liturgical Year (The Liturgical Press, 1991)
Aaron Gleason, “How Christmas Baptizes Norse Mythology into Powerful Christian Archetypes,” The Federalist (December 15, 2017)
Origin of the names of the Days
Jewish month names from Babylon
30 comments:
I have NO respect for any former WCG member who cannot see that Xmas is pagan, and that the Bible is also pagan. NONE!
Over 6 million Germans migrated to America. Armstrongism states that Christmas came out of Germany as far as modern nations go. Well blame it on those Germans (I mean Assyrians) who brought it to American shores (Manasseh). BI , I mean AI
Christmas is simply the fact that it centers around the Winter Solstice ("sun stand still" around December 22nd. Then on the 25th, the Sun advances 1 degree towards the Spring Equinox in March or April. In this, the Sun begins, on the 25th to take away the darkness of winter. December 22nd is the shortest day of the year. At the Spring Equinox the days and nights are the same length and in June at the Summer Solstice, it is the longest day of the year before the days again begin to shorten th Fall to the same, day/night equal and then back to December. The "pagan" part is all the traditions and practices humans have used to recognize this astronomical phenomenon. Christmas has absolutely nothing to do with the birth of any Jesus. No one has a clue when Jesus was born. The birth narratives in Matthew and Luke are made up, do not agree in the least with each other and meant to convey a miraculous birth of a special person. Notice in scripture that amazing men are born to old infertile women. Gods, to young virgins. :) Huge and interesting astro-theological topic/tale based on what is going on with the sun and the constellations involved in the night sky.
"It's run by an Eastern syndicate, you know." - Lucy in A Charlie Brown Christmas
Definition of pagan: (especially in historical contexts) a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main or recognized religions.
I'm pagan. Tithes were given to others only twice every 7 years, and Nisan 14 is the first day of 7 days of one of only 3 annual feasts.
If only the Jews had recognized Him for whom and what He was! Then we'd have solid records in the Talmud or other Rabbinic writings. Wouldn't that be a gas??? But, the Pharisees and Sadducees kind of shit the bed on this one, leaving people to make best guess. The one most important thing in the entire history of the world, and we're left to speculate. Such a bummer!
Paganism? The pagan connections are well known but nobody seems to care. It's a non issue, even though there are many YouTube podcasts with the facts.
I have no problem with anyone honoring Jesus Christ the way they choose, but is that what is really going on with Black Friday or cyber Monday? The truth is, in this world system, gift giving is the main thrust of this holiday, not the Saviour. Christmas is the biggest economic stimulus of the year. Estimated sales is 973 billion in the U.S. alone. Commercial after commercial testifies to that fact.
Maybe we should all be so boldly honest. Jesus was, after all, an advocate of reality. His commentary on this season would likely be, "this people draw near unto me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me", Matt.15:8.
I get it! We are sentimental creatures. We love the pretty lights, the music, family gatherings, and dreaming of a White Christmas. But it would be more honest if we took Christ entirely out of our cultured Christmas, and admitted that this holiday is really about us, our dreams, dispairs, emotions, and of course, the economy. It's psychology and commercialism rolled up in one big gift box.
Okay.
I remember reading an article in the Good News about a Christmas Party and Jesus Christ as an invited guest, enjoying the food and socializing but would be puzzled and unable to see the connection of Him and Christmas, let alone its significance.
For me the Gregorian calendar and the Christian holidays of Easter and Christmas have nothing to do with paganism. For me it's apostasy and should be referred to as such. The problem with calling these holidays as "pagan" is that Christians who celebrate these holidays aren't worshipping Zeus or celebrating Saturnalia. They aren't reciting from the sacred texts of the ancient Greek or Roman pagan religions. They're worshipping God and Jesus Christ and reading the Christian Bible. Further, just because there's similarities between modern Christianity and ancient paganism doesn't mean there's a connection between the two. So, like I said, rather than claim that modern Christianity is pagan based on alleged similarities to ancient paganism I'd much rather contend that it's in fact apostasy, which the apostle Paul even prophesied in the 1st century was going to occur.
How do you get rid of evil? You replace it with good! As the Christian faith grew amongst the gentiles, Christian gentiles replaced paganism with the worship of Jesus Christ. They made Saturnalia no longer about pagan gods, but instead all about Jesus Christ. And, for centuries, it worked!
Ironically, until Herbert W. Armstrong came along, the majority of the general public in civilized nations believed that Christmas and Easter were all about Jesus Christ! Yes! Gentile Christians in the first, second, and third centuries C.E. were indeed precisely that effective! Nobody before Armstrong even remembered Saturnalia until HWA started preaching that Christmas was a pagan holiday. Just as he influenced his fellow televangelists in their revival of tithing, giving birth to the concept of evangelist as decadent, wealthy rock star, he also influenced others to undo thousands of years of worship of Jesus Christ, and to proclaim that Christmas was pagan! What a spiritual mofo he was! I hope he's allowed to read the comments on "Banned" down there in Gehenna, sees this, and realizes that it's all part of why he is there!
BB
Yes, Anon831, there were a lot of stupid articles in the good news magazine. At many Christmas parties, a creche representing Christ’s nativity is present and popular Christian Christmas songs are playing.
Compare this to partying at the feast of tabernacles where you will rarely hear anything about God or see any image that might help remind you of Him.
That is a load of garbage, BP8. I see much more recognition of God in Christmas than I did at FOT parties. Creches, noels, beautiful carols (silent night etc), angels blowing horns announcing the Messiah, messages of “peace and goodwill to all men”, etc
Now, we were taught in WCG to belittle such things but in fact they are meaningful.
At the Feast of Booze alcohol flowed far more in my experience. Consumerism with 10% of your income being spent in 8 days. Feast gifts everyday, children were told, “not just on one day like Christmas.”
Are you kidding me?!?!?
You need to step back and see how Christians celebrate Christmas.
And, sorry but Dec. 25 was calculated through Christian means even if the date is incorrect.
Alexander Hislop’s debunked histories and fabricated connections were canon in the WCG. It warped our thinking.
Until Herbert Armstrong came along?
What about Oliver Cromwell and the entire Purtian movement?
The Puritans rejected Christmas they saw no biblical justification for it. The Puritan-led English Parliament banned Christmas in June 1647, and it remained officially illegal until the Restoration in 1660.
Yeah BB
Strapped to a spiked Prayer Rock with a Steuben Obelisks being forced to read Banned Comments 24/7...with a Bristol Cream just out of reach......
Sheer Hell
Nck
The external paradox about the Christmas holiday compared ACOGs Feast of Tabernacles is that the Christmas holiday is mainly family oriented. It takes place mainly at home with family and extended family with food and leftovers at a relatives house. Meanwhile with the FOT, I understand that it's Biblical, however your stepping away from society and even "outside family" and spending a couple thousand dollars to go to some hotel for over a week.
There is that tree thing though in Jeremiah.
508
No need to get all upright. I'm not an apologist for the Armstrong movement nor am I promoting their practices. How Christians celebrate Christmas has nothing to do with the culture it has become. Honestly, you don't believe Black Friday is representative of the true spirit of the season do you? Then the struggle to pay the debt afterwards?
Your statement, "December 25 was calculated through Christian means even if the date is incorrect" seems rather odd. Apparently "Christian" means is not very reliable?
I personally believe E.W. Bullinger makes a good case that Christ was "begotten" (made flesh) on December 25, which would place his birth in the Fall on a feast day the following year (see Companion Bible Appendix 179). But even if this was proven to be the absolute truth it wouldn't change a thing! Why? Because "Christians" don't control our culture, the money changers do and they are quite happy with the way things are working now.
Like it or not, in this system called Babylon, Christmas is big business!
BP8,
I’m glad you are not an Armstrong apologist. Still, i know how many observe Christmas and Black Friday sales and such do take a total backseat as it is about the Messiah. Just because some overdo the consumerism does not indicate a solution of taking Jesus out of Christmas for the millions/billions that focus primarily on Christ during Christmas.
I’ll check out the Bullingers reference you mentioned.
Anything large scale that humans do, except maybe breathe, is going to create business opportunities. That isn't a bad thing per se. The fact is, a small percentage of people will always abuse these opportunities, will exploit them in bad ways, and become highly visible.
You can't condemn Christmas based on rabid shoppers on black Friday any more than you can damn the Feast of Tabernacles because of the excesses involving alcohol! That's straw manning at its worst.
At Christmas parties, a creche representing Christ's nativity is present and popular Christian Christmas songs are playing.
What Christmas parties are they? The Church of England Archbishop of Canterbury Christmas party?
Christmas holiday is recognised by many as the most busiest time of the year to travel by road, sea or air.
Christmas may well "takes place mainly at home" but many have to travel far to the designated "home".
Christmas is also known for high suicide rates and millions of elderly are left alone during this "family Christian time".
Your Christmas you write about is the "disneyland fantasy Christmas". The modern version of the "Charles Dickens fantasy Christmas story".
Well, 6:41, I read of a number of reasons why Cromwell got Parliament to cancel Christmas, but the idea that it was pagan is nowhere listed as one of them. Same with the Puritans. Very conservative individuals condemned the holiday, saying it was "popish", and others did not like the fact that some took the day off not to worship, but to celebrate with alcohol and debauchery.
The Rev. Alexander Hislop attributed it to the pagans in his now fully debunked and discredited book "The Two Babylons", a book in which HWA helped rekindle interest. That book was an anti-Catholic polemic, written by a Protestant minister in the mid-1800s, and made unwarranted links, leaps, and assumptions without laying proper groundwork with verifiable facts. It is noteworthy today an example of very poor scholarship.
BB
Not true. It is exactly how my parents had Christmas and many other friend’s today have Christmas. Who the heck are these grinches associating with?
I think they once went to a holiday work party where someone had too much eggnog and now they’re an authority.
Yep BB,
You may remember the book based on it that was highly recommended by the WCG: “Babylon Mystery Religion” by Ralph Woodrow. It was a best seller for Woodrow, but when he went back and reexamined Hislop’s “Two Babylons”, he saw how terrible the scholarship was (as did many others).
So, he pulled his successful book off the market and wrote a rebuttal. An honorable thing to do.
Well. If you understood contemporary sources one would know that "Popish" at the time was considered a worse thing than the religion of the Ottoman ruler..... "Mohammedanism".....complete utter and total blasphemism as compared to sincerely wrong Islam...
Nck
" For example, the Greeks made offerings to the god Apollo, the Incas to the sun god Inti and the Mayans to the god Kinich Ahau. For a week each December, the ancient Romans also celebrated the solstice by honoring the god Saturn.
When Christianity came onto the world scene, Aveni said, those ancient solstice celebrations evolved into Christmas. He said the time of the birth of Jesus Christ was not actually in December but was changed to fit the season’s celebrations. "
https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/winter-solstice-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-shortest-day-of-the-year/339537
I guess a weather site could be considered a neutral source.
Its only trivia, but the Inca festival would have been in June, no?
The Armstrongist view on Christmas is about self-righteousness. It is not about whether there is a pagan taint to some popular observation. Armstrongists, for instance, have never examined Thanksgiving. One could make a plausible argument that Thanksgiving has a contaminating pagan connection. The Native Americans who met with the pilgrims were throughgoing pagans. By Armstrongist standards, so were the pilgrims. The pilgrims believed in the Trinity. In addition, Thanksgiving is rooted in sin. Armstrongists used to believe, and maybe still do, that Native Americans were Canaanites. And Israel was not supposed to make treaties with Canaanites but was supposed to exterminate them. So, the first Thanksgiving celebration was a sinful rebellion against God. So, we have two rebellious, pagan peoples inaugurating an observance in early America that Armstrongists everywhere now gaily follow.
Armstrongists do not have a methodology for ferreting out contaminated observances or Thanksgiving would not stand. Hence, the decision against Christmas is not the result of a carefully considered measure. Not observing Christmas is just a convenient and concocted badge of self-righteousness. It also produces a sense of bonding and separateness from the great unwashed masses. In addition, HWA used to rail about co-workers spending money on Christmas gifts instead of sending the money to the WCG. This was a simply a ploy to capitalize on the generosity of the season.
The fallacy in the Armstrongist reasoning concerning Christmas has a name – it’s a thing. It is called in discipline of logic the Genetic Fallacy. This is what Wikipedia says about it:
“The genetic fallacy (also known as the fallacy of origins or fallacy of virtue) is a fallacy of irrelevance in which arguments or information are dismissed or validated based solely on their source of origin rather than their content. In other words, a claim is ignored or given credibility based on its source rather than the claim itself.”
While one can debate such issues as how much paganism is too much and what condemning historical connections can be found, we lose sight of the fact that the rejection of Christmas is simply an idiosyncratic assertion of self-righteousness in the odd denomination.
Scout
And let me state further. Garrison Keillor once said that in Minnesota even the atheists are Lutheran – it’s the Lutheran God they don’t believe in. Armstrongists have been known to celebrate on December 25th. Only they celebrate the Anti-Christmas. I recall that we in this region used to go to the WCG District Family Weekend on Christmas Day. We would eat in restaurants, stay in hotels, have sports tournaments, sometimes a talent show, listen to a special sermonette and sermon, socialize bigly – all on December 25th. In this celebration of self-righteousness, it was the pervasive influence of mainstream Christianity that we were acknowledging. It wasn’t that we weren’t attending the Christmas party. Rather, we were the bad kids at the Christmas party.
Scout
I remember back in the day my young wife and I attended a young couples gathering that happened to be on New Years eve. My super deacon father in law objected---"you're celebrating New Years!!!!! " My response was, so what? Am I supposed to crawl into a hole for 24 hours just because of a calendar date? The funny thing was, although they didn't stay long, the MINISTER and his wife dropped by to say hi and had a couple of drinks. They were very sociable!
But things got funnier! There happened to be some smart ass AC girls attending who started a debate on college degrees. They were ridiculing the HOST who had just graduated from Purdue with an engineering degree, saying it was worldly and worthless compared to attending AC. Although he was a staunch WCG follower, fisticuffs almost broke out, lol.
Life in the WCG was never boring!
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