Forty years ago on January 16, 1986, Herbert Armstrong died. Various COG groups have amped up their idolization of the guy a lot in the last few days. Here are some words of wisdom from Gerald Weston about Herbert Armstrong.
HWA brought prophecy to worldly ministers throughout their lifetime. Many never thought about it till Herb mentioned it. Forget decades of false prophecies. To the broader Christian world (and even his own church's eventual leadership), his message contained significant theological errors, unfulfilled prophecies, and departures from historic Christianity.
Several specific prophecies failed to materialize (e.g., predictions tied to 1972–1975 events, a coming "United States of Europe" under a beast power by certain dates). It only takes ONE failed prophecy, and God says they are liars and not to be followed. Just ask Bob Thiel about that one.
An Emissary of Truth
The impact Mr. Armstrong had on religion during his lifetime was immense. You might say that he put Bible prophecy “on the map,” so to speak. It is difficult to know how many professing Christian ministers read his works and listened to his radio programs, but the number must be sizeable. In the 1960s, you could not drive anywhere in North America at night and not hear his voice, or that of his son, over the radio—usually more than once.
Today, we take for granted many doctrines that God revealed through Mr. Armstrong. One is the meaning of life—that we can be born into the Family of God. This is so obvious from the Scriptures that one must wonder why it is not generally understood by all. But the answer is found in another doctrine God revealed through him. It was while Carol and I were at Ambassador College that God began to open Mr. Armstrong’s mind to a “new” doctrine. He knew that the Bible does not teach that man has an immortal soul, but he also realized that man has a capacity for intelligence shared by no other physical creature. It took him several years to come to understand the truth of the spirit in man—but today, as we read 1 Corinthians 2:11 and other passages on the subject, that truth jumps off the page.
40 comments:
Today, we take for granted many doctrines that God revealed through Mr. Armstrong.
This is true, as long as we understand "through Mr. Armstrong" to mean "through the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, J.H. Allen, Andrew Dugger and Clarence Dodd." Mr. Armstrong was a filter for many other groups' unconventional doctrines, and didn't himself get original with his "doctrines" until Ambassador College had been around for many years and he fell under the brown-nosing influence of Herman Hoeh and Rod Meredith who inflated their own importance by insisting that they were serving under an "apostle" and not just an incestuous pedophile plagiarist.
These truths weren't revealed through HWA. They are revealed by God. He is the one who opens our minds and helps us to understand The Bible. They have been in The Bible all along.
Maybe they should publish his list of failed prophecies, his expenditures, his divorce transcript from Ramona, the Kessler letter, and his 1967 co-worker letter where he threatened members and co-workers with the lake of fire if they didn't send in more tithes & donations, all the while Loma was struggling with her bowel blockage in which he banned her being treated medically.
Had HWA not been such a tyrant, a fear-monger, and a teacher of child abuse, we might have actually been able to enjoy his cultural amalgamation. Let's face it, others have produced such combinations, and they turned out to be very beneficial. Bruce Lee combined effective techiques from various martial arts into his own super version. Stevie Ray Vaughan did much the same thing with the blues. We, or our parents, just happened to fall for a toxic and dangerous amalgamator who died with the most toys and won. Imagine how good our lives might have been if we had only fallen for a better version, such as the Messianic Jews!
BB
The problem, 5:13, is that this particular product, what we know today as the HWAcaca, was a defective product which should have been removed from the shelves the moment it was discovered that it did not deliver as advertised. In fact it had some devastating side effects which enriched its teachers even as it ruined the lives of its naive followers. Everybody, in fact, knew this by1975, but those with a vested interest spun and repackaged it, and kept right on selling it!
Some of the extreme teachers of today are much worse, more like HWA on steroids! Their followers resist the helpful individuals who learned their lessons earlier, throwing around terms like "crown stealer" as they push away the life jackets we attempt to throw them. Not the lifeguard, but their enemy.
One day, upon death, we'll all know. Or not.
Nah. They have a history of going to the optometrist and getting a more opaque grade of blinders.
So what if the "doctrines that God revealed through Mr. Armstrong" are correct. This is Pharisaic thinking. The larger picture is that the church of Herb stole members lives by infantilizing them and treating them as if they have no rights.
Big deal if you have the right doctrines but have no life. The name of this phenominum is called "doctrine over people." It's why the Pharisees criticized Christ for healing on the Sabbath. There's no way that Herb will be in the kingdom.
Armstrongism has math problems.
Herbie said that he had the truth that had been sealed for 1,900 years.
Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the life.”
The two are at odds.
Amstrongism has historically been scarce on mentions of Jesus; Armstrong truth is much more about the Sabbath and the proprietary law blend that Herbie concocted.
There was no WCG booklet on Christ the Redeemer, grace had a very limited definition but was rarely mentioned in sermons or articles, and justification was unheard of.
Comparatively, Armstrongism’s collective writings, broadcasts, and sermon do not come close to matching the frequency at which the writers of the New Testament books discussed Savior Jesus, redemption, union with Christ, grace, and justification.
The number of Armstrongism’s false prophesies must be in the millions.
While forsaking mentions of concepts related to Jesus, Armstrongism, as a whole, rapaciously fills their messages with the repeats of Herbie’s false prophesies.
Astronomical is number of times Armstrongists have uttered some version of the end being just five to seven years away, or reiterated sure to come soon weather-related prophesies, or proclaimed impending punishment about to drop on “Israelite nations”.
Whether Herbie dispensed all those time-proven false statements himself or those echoed falsehoods dripped out of his acolytes, each one was issued under insistence that the message came from God.
As Armstrongism continues, the number of false Armstrongism prophecies expands, even while the Arstrongism universe shrinks – I think the mathematical concept is increasing density – the concentration of false prophesy must be suffocating.
I hope that Armstrongists will consider a trend reversal and replace Herbie’s trajectory of false prophesies with more recognition of Jesus, approximating the percentage of references to the concepts related to Jesus found in the New Testament.
Maybe, 5:54, you should read that believers have forgiveness of sins.
You mean William Miller didn't "put Bible prophecy on the map" in 1844? (Albeit for the wrong reason.)
Quite so Trooisto. Good points raised. In my almost two decades within Armstrongism, I rarely heard about Christ our Redeemer, let alone grace and justification. Foreign concepts to them. Yet ones that expose this movement deeply and perhaps that is why they were rarely touched on if at all. A reading of the book of Romans leaves me wide mouthed and astonished at its depth and the shallowness of Armstrongism and its ‘core’ doctrines. Cheers.
1.22, forgiveness isn't a magic wand that wipes away reality. The definition of forgiveness is agreeing to pay for someone else's sin. So forgiveness isn't a right. Maybe, you need to read that believers reap what they sow.
Gerald Weston wrote. “The impact Mr. Armstrong had on religion during his lifetime was immense.” I doubt Herbie had much impact on religion – except for the relatively few, yet hugely unfortunate, people who got too close to his religion. The impact Herbie had could not have been immense, if it did not outlive him, outside of the comparatively few people who remember him today among the Earth’s eight billion people who never heard of him.
Today, Herbie is not well known for anything, outside of the collapsing Armstrongism universe.
Presently, Herbie is not as famous as his cult leader contemporaries. Even David Kuresh, a Herbie-wanna-be, remains far more renowned in the US, than Herbie is. Jim Jones, David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon all left a bigger legacy than Herbie did.
Among Herbie’s dangerous contemporaries, Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, and David Berkowitz all have made a bigger impact on society today than Herbie did.
Although plagiarism derailed Joe Biden’s first attempt to run for US President, he was largely forgiven by the public and plagiarism was not even a factor in his third and successful attempt to become President. As someone pointed out earlier, HWA copied his prophesies and doctrines from other prophecy mongers and religions but could not parlay his plagiarism into any long-term, far-reaching impact.
Yes, Herbie was a dangerous cult leader who hurt too many people, including too many still suffering today. Yes, Herbie perverted religion and deluded too many and although the number dwindles every day, still too many remain hoodwinked. It appears that Weston’s article is merely thinly veiled propaganda aimed at keeping the very small number of remaining Armstrongites within the fold; while religion and the world has erased HWA.
Comment by Bob Thiel, prophet falsely so called, wrote that it took HWA: "...several years to come to understand the truth of the spirit in man—but today, as we read 1 Corinthians 2:11 and other passages on the subject, that truth jumps off the page...."
******
What truth "jumps off the page?"
The Bible does tell us about another Jesus, another gospel, and another spirit.
"For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God." I Cor 2:1 was mentioned by Bob Thiel.
It does appear that HWA was correct in understanding that particular "spirit of "man," and how it differed from any other spirit; however, there is “another spirit” in man that HWA did not explain, and perhaps never really understood, and it is found in the Book of James:
"Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?" James 4:5
Lust and envy are not fruits of God's Spirit, but James told those Christians, sealed Firstfruits, members of God's Church, that that spirit of lust/envy dwelled in them.
Apparently, HWA did not have a "need to know" about that "spirit in man," and God therefore did not reveal to HWA that there was another spirit in man.
Does it matter if we are aware of lust and envy dwelling within us that is associated with another spirit: such as this "spirit in man” mentioned by James, or not?"
Time will tell...
John
Those who keep on insisting Armstrong revealed truth in his doctrines and other utterances have, sadly, missed the biblical revelations because most of what Armstrong had to say was but dross. What we see in his photo is the face of a self satisfied con man who was very successful at the art of selling the big lie.
That it has crumbled into nothing is evidence God never sustained.
Then you must have missed Ronald L Dart's 'Words of Jesus' Bible Bible series program that was very lengthy in series numbers.
I’m sure you hope that is true. Take a break from the repetitive cycle of sermons and stay home, read your Bible. Pray that God will reveal the truth from scripture alone without your paradigm that hwa was right. See where He leads.
The Bible doesn’t preach hwa’s gospel. His booklets do.
Say Christ would have returned in 1975, then perhaps one could say HWA had an immense impact on religion. But I don't think the United States of Europe was together back then, I don't think the daily sacrifice was going on or to be taken away, the king of the South was not formed or identified, the two witnesses were not on the scene (unless you thought it was HWA and GTA), persecution of his church by the Roman system wasn't occurring. Herbert W. Armstrong and others claimed that he was an apostle. I don't know about that. Galatians 6:3
Yea, when you have GTA go and form another group, then the implosion of Worldwide and the end of the Ambassador Colleges. Well there is your answer right there (not sustained). I tell you what he did do, he influenced other mega pastors around the world to indulge in owning their own jets.
Forgiveness, 5:20, is a promise under the New Covenant (you do believe in the New Covenant, don't you, since many posters here like to remind us all the time of its superiority to the Old?) to wipe away sin. It is a right given to us by Jesus Christ.
Yes, believers reap what they sow but if his work is burned up, yet he shall be saved, "yet so as by fire" (1 Cor 3:15), meaning he has forgiveness of sins.
If you don't have repentance or forgiveness, you can't be saved.
You don't know what the NC promises? "I will be merciful to their unrighteousness and their sins will I remember no more". (Heb 8:12)
The thing is, 1:54, he most likely believes that he already did exactly as you suggested. Bias confirmation is a factor most people never consider.
Miller's dramas didn't play out in real time, F/G. Most people did not find out about his endtimes prophecies until years after they failed and damaged his followers. The news media was not what it is today. The Great Disappointment did later become part of Seventh Day Adventist folklore.
Yes, I did miss Dart's whatever... sorry, I don't know who he is. Glad you have one example that you respect.... but doesn't only one good example in the entire Armstrong movement tell you that Armstrongism is bogus?
Now that the big 40th anniversary has passed, have any of the COG leaders come forth to showcase any of Herbie's prophecies that came to be, with the specified timeframes, as Herbie proclaimed?
Years ago, as a young boy, I wondered about HWA's prophecies. I just couldn't see the hows and whys whose presences would cause our many allies around the world hate us. I didn't understand how disease epidemics would revive from the suppressed condition in which modern medicine held them. Where would detention camps come from? What would provoke the stranger within our gates to rise up against us? With all of our constitutional checks and balances, how could an oppressive government lift itself against us because of our beliefs? With all of the abundance, how would there come to be food shortages without the entire climate changing? With freedom of the press as one of the tenets of democracy, how would government control and suppress truth?
Back then, there was no such thing as a privately held corporate military to which posse comitatus did not apply. Nobody envisioned government control of the arts and culture. We had no surveilance through the primitive electronic devices in our homes, and cars did not have computers recording our every move, checking out our listening choices, or recording our conversations. National debt was always there to one extent or another, but not looming over us as an existential threat to the economy.
While these things are undeniably present, they do not comport with the HWA prophecy model, yet the scenarios we watch unfolding are equally scary. What is infinitely scarier is that It is difficult to even imagine the ways in which emerging AI technology will affect our daily existence. It occurred to me as I was outlining these conditions that they have become things which one can't just quit one's church to escape or correct!
There is no evidence of Herbert Armstrong being a tyrant.
You are preying on those who have experienced trauma and abuse, and are actually abusing people with false stories.
There is no evidence of fear mongering!
There is no evidence that Herbert Armstrong taught child abuse.
He died with the most toys?
Where is mind? You are perpetuating sickness coming from your own heart! I wonder if you have been involved with abusing children! I wonder if you have been a tyrant, because I’ve dug through the garbage against HWA, and have found no evidence, just sickos preying on the hurt, trying to spin their sickness against Herbert W Armstrong.
You dwell too much and talk so much about perversions, trying to gaslight people into believing a false narrative. But I am beginning to wonder…maybe the FBI should investigate you guys and maybe Trump, or someone should look into your history, see if your sickness can be spotted? Maybe ICE should investigate? Who knows? What have you done in the dark?
You get your rocks off by bashing on a dead man, with lies and false reports.
You prey on the mentally unstable, and push your addiction to as many who can get wrapped up in your “cult”.
You built up a “idol” so you can practice burning his effigy again and again.
I mean come on. It’s highly toxic, and it’s highly mentally unstable.
You are just a circle jerk, an orgy of perpetuating sickness. Putrid, rotten, and abominable.
And you, accuse HWA of evil, that you have no evidence. Testimonies is based on other people’s stories, and nothing can be confirmed.
This is Gary’s mental ward. Want to hear the same lunacy? Give it a few minutes. It may be propped up with pretty flowers and wise looking nut cases, but get a life. The truth is so much better. I’ve gone through the garbage you consume and I utterly reject it as lies. I’ve proven that to myself at least.
But you are the drug pusher, the groomer, trying to groom a new generation of perverts like you! Do you think God doesn’t see you?
Woe unto you sirs, its or whatever’s.
Over at PCG they are looking at a bunch of bus crashes and minor larcenies to figure out which ones meet their "January 16 Miracle Day" parameters. A few heretics are quietly looking toward January 24 (the 40th anniversary on the sacred calendar) for something major.
No. Because you broadbrush everyone with the same accusations.
Don't know. However, next time we see a portrait of HWA with a demon whispering in his ear, I think the demon should be drawn to look like Beethoven.
Samuel Kitchen wrote:
I wonder if you have been involved with abusing children!
Samuel, since I don't want to emulate HWA, I have NOT been involved with sexually abusing a child, as he was. Remember, when the subject of his abuse of Dorothy was brought up during his divorce trial, he did not contest the allegation. No innocent person would let a false charge of child sexual abuse go unchallenged. You can look that up for yourself, unless you are too afraid to do so.
You get your rocks off by bashing on a dead man, with lies and false reports.
Are you talking about the way you abuse Joe Tkach Sr. for accepting Mr. Armstrong's decision to make him his successor? If you truly believed in Church Government, you would praise Mr. Armstrong for having appointed Mr. Tkach, and you would follow his lead. And just as you don't fault HWA for choosing not to blindly follow the leaders of COG-7, you should praise Mr. Tkach for letting God inspire his leadership.
Samuel, if you cannot praise Mr. Tkach as fulsomely as you praise Mr. Armstrong, you are a hypocrite and should repent of your false words in this thread.
7:14.....I love it how you frame HWA was 5000% right......Yet he was not right at all.......
This makes for my lifelong fascination and I'm quite sure what happened.
nck
12.37 am, to be fair, on January 17th, the European Union signed a major trade deal with the South American mercosur trade bloc. January 17 can qualify for January 16 because of time zones.
Well,if you read PCGs statements carefully, they admit that anything that happens the day before and day after can also be "significant" - which is really reaching.
I would have thought that you of all people would have understood this, nck! It's what happens when someone reads the news, and compares it to what is said in the Bible. Being familiar with world events provides an excellent understanding of what will ultimately play out. But that process misses the mark established by the Bible: the hows, the whys, the who, the time sequencing. HWA tried mightily to corellate the two, but did not have a big enough shoe horn?
Has that not been your entire schtick, your crowning glory throughout your tenure on our awesome dissident sites?
Samel Kitchen claims that "There is no evidence of Herbert Armstrong being a tyrant."
I believed that when I started attending church services. When my first minister treated me as having no rights, I assumed he was the odd rotten apple. But when my next four ministers behaved the same way, I concluded that it was the church culture. Once the Internet came along, the same complaint of tyranny was common. In any organisation, the CEO is morally held responsible for their organisation's culture. Politicians have lost their jobs because of the crimes committed by their underlings for this reason. Plus much of Herb's writings such as "government is everything" and a lack of validating rights strongly points to this. And not forgetting the ACOGs love affair of the loaded language word "rule" with its implication of zero restraint on government. So forget the constitution and bill of rights. Herb was the Borg queen of his church.
2:48 True!
Except for the fact that he was "announcing the news before it happened"........ and perhaps things like people like Dr Kuhn being Chief Advisor to the Chinese government ushering in the World Tomorrow..... as I noticed on the news on my sojourn through Central Asia.
Nck
Idiots are looking in all the wrong places, as usual. The only thing of any significance whatsoever that happened on Jan. 17 was Bob Weir's funeral in San Francisco.
You really can't pay attention to anything Sam says about HWA, or take it seriously. Defending that rotten old dead bastard is simply part of the culture of those whom HWA deceived. Remember, they actually still think HWA was an apostle. It's completely ridiculous.
That was me at 10:36. Forgot to sign on. If HWA had been correct, this would be the Millennium right now, and we'd be sitting around with Jesus, enjoying some of His new wine and cheese, as He taught us all of the perfect secrets of the universe.
BB
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