Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Sadly what we have heard here, is being played out in many religious organisations today. Be it JWs, Armstrongism and even within the Muslim community globally. Christ came to set us free, to enable us to have a life more abundant, yet men have laid chains upon us and robbed us of that liberty in Christ. Yet many of us here, reading this blog, joined the Armstrong movement, innocently and sincerely, believing we were doing that which was right in Gods eyes. We all had a longing to belong. Armstrongism for a time for many, did make sense and fulled that need of longing with answers. Looking back now, I have no regrets, and realise that it was simply a path, a journey ultimately to lead us to Jesus Christ and His liberty and the rest to be found in Him. Yet I acknowledge many were hurt by this movement and still are suffering today. I grieve for those still tied to this movement. My two cents worth, cheers.
For those who haven't watched the whole video, it mentions a doctor who because of the Common doctrine started off with finances in the high seven figures, but left the church with only $100,000. It looks like there's some truth in prison inmates claiming that the only reason that they are in prison is that they got caught.
What a gas! The thing is, this is an "insert name of ACOG" experience!! You could pick ex members and ex ministers from any of the sphincter groups, and conduct an interview including the reporter who originally exposed it, and exactly the same picture would manifest itself!
Basically, it is an expose of Armstrongism and the inherent evils of such a religious philosophy. One would hope that there are many hungry reporters who will seize this opportunity and continue the exposure!
Interestingly, Dr. Kunz could pass for a cousin or additional brother from the Van Zant family of Lynyrd Skynyrd fame! That alone builds unspeakable trust!
Cults 101 is that people don't join cults, but join groups that turn out to be cults. Btw, I noticed that the old WWCG spokesman's club manual had a heart-to-heart speech assignment near the very beginning of the manual. This was a calculated trap for new members who hadn't yet realized that the church was a cult. As a consequence, many gave away personal details that were weaponized against them by their ministers. The ministers have "dirt files" on all church members to aid them in their lording ways. It's not just written down but also passed along verbally by other ministers and elders. Experiments have shown that simple short stories passed along are repeatedly unrecogniseable after the fifth or sixth person. This was a favourite skit on the older "You're on candid camera" TV show.
Someone recently said "Well no one makes you stay." But the Sunk Cost Fallacy is a factor in RCG's cultic controls.
Why do they stay?
The sunk cost fallacy is a cognitive bias that makes you feel as if you should continue pouring money, time, or effort into a situation since you’ve already "sunk" so much into it already. This perceived sunk cost makes it difficult to walk away from the situation since you don’t want to see your resources wasted.
For example, have you ever stuck with something because you've already put in *so* much effort? Like reading a terrible book because you're already halfway through, so you might as well find out what happens.
When falling prey to the sunk cost fallacy, "the impact of loss feels worse than the prospect of gain, so we keep making decisions based on past costs instead of future costs and benefits," explains Yalda Safai, MD, MPH, a psychiatrist in New York City.
According to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), this leads to irrational, emotion-based decision-making, causing you to spend additional resources on a dead end instead of walking away from the situation that’s no longer serving you.1
Very interesting. Another and perhaps the most destructive "Church of God" is the Philadelphia Church of God in Edmond Ok. This cult is headed by false prophet Gerald Flurry. It is responsible for breaking apart families and even member and ex member suicides. Learn more about it: https://called-chosen.blogspot.com/2025/12/the-evil-church.html
Eventually, once they start uncovering a group like RCG and Pack, it will always be traced back to Herbert W. Armstrong and WCG. And it hurts even further the reputation of Armstrongism (as if it can be helped). But Pack's RCG is like taking the whole bottle of opioids instead of just two or three pills per week. I know he must make the other splinter leaders proud.
Why do they stay ? Some for the love of filthy lucre and the perks it provides. Some for the love of power over others, or the illusion of it. Control and manipulation of other humans can become as addictive as drugs.
Jesus warned of dangerous times when the love of many will wax cold, people who spitefully use others. And nowhere has people been more spitefully used than in the Church of God by the very ones who are supposed to care for Jesus sheep. They actually hate the sheep and think they do God a service by abusing them. What dangerous terrible times we live in.
Interesting interview, near the end Marc Cebrian said there are more ex-RCG members than current RCG members, which is good to hear, that most of them realised RCG was wrong and left.
Yes Christ came to set us free, free from the penalty of sin. So why would anyone return to sin after being freed from the penalty? The great deceiver Satan has convinced many that they are free to anything their heart desires with no penalty from God. Ignoring God's law puts you right back where you started, condemned to death.
Avoura, you are right. I can tell you from experience that there are WAY more ex members of the PCG than there are current members. I believe with the loss of so much income they regret that they let the demon cultpecker put out so many. I was put out based on a lie. With NO counseling, NO chance to defend my self. I was put out, OVER THE PHONE. The demon was lamenting the fact that he had to put out so many people, and how hard it was on him. So many were marked for no good reason. I know I talked to some of them. Good people. I said to it, "after all these years, I'm out, no counseling, no probation or second chance". It told me, "you are no longer a member, do not contact us again", and hung up the phone. I even appealed to King Gerry. well he was not king at that time. But I got no response, he turned my letter over to the demon. Looking back it was a blessing to be set free. I am closer to the Creator than ever before. My only regret is losing my 2 adult children, Elise and Nathan that are still trapped in the cult. And now I have grandchildren that I am not allowed to see or have contact with. https://called-chosen.blogspot.com/2026/07/i-have-never-been-alowed-to-see-my.html
Great job guys! I loved Marc's responses to the corporate line of RCGs response to criticism lol. I mean how pathetic and weak is Dave. Can't even appear on a local news outlet to explain the Church. Then dispatch pathetic comments by "spokesman". I even GTA made public appearances to explain the Church. If it's so great I would think you would want the world to know. Of all the horrible things to get addicted to in life I think getting addicted to Dave is the worst.
Exactly. These splinters conform to the "a little leaven leavens the whole batch" principle. They take Herb''s compromised teachings, and take them to the extreme. Dave's Common is just the implementation of the former WCG viewing its members as chattel to be heartlessly exploited.
I just watched the video interview. Where Pack is taking peoples 401K their home, their stock. And other assists. Pack is calling it "In COMMON". They call it the "Common Doctrine". Members have to sell all they have and give as sacrifice for the work". WOW! Look for King Gerry to jump on that one. Flurry's ghostwriter Joel Hilliker is probably working on a "New Revelation" article and sermon now. With a book about it soon.
Any minister who would disfellowship a member via phone or email is subtly acknowledging the relative unimportance of such an act. These days, I suspect that those who are disfellowshipped from RCG or PCG would simply go with one of the less toxic splinters, most likely one of the larger ones which is shrinking at a slower rate. I can only imagine the joy someone from UCG, LCG, or COGWA would experience, knowing that someone from one of the torture chambers had seen the light and escaped. We can say a lot of things about all of these groups. The fact is some of them inflict relatively little Pastoral abuse on their members. We all know the virulently bad players! No worries. Gamliel is on the job. But as these groups come to nought, why not be with one which doesn't treat members quite so badly?
There’s also the JIC. Just in case. I saw this a lot after the changes started to roll out. Too many people would go into their little Pharisaical groups after services and talk about how they better stay “in case” HWA was right, and Tkatch was wrong and they wanted to be there to say I told you so. The other group would talk about how they wanted to stay to see how those HWA zealots were wrong. The whole affair was bat shit crazy, that’s when I said I was out from all of it.
When you look into the founder of ALL those groups. You find HE was a false prophet. And a believer and follower of Allah. So WHY would you want to be a part of that. Just be thankful that the Creator set you free from them.
7:04, the demoniac power that did it, without bothering to give me a reason (I suspect that the impetus came from a discussion that I had with a couple of local men with roots in WCG, who were insignificant leftovers from the glory days, who, one or both, had to run to the President to complain about me), whose name I cannot identify, spoke through Gerald Weston.
What a disappointment. Couldn't give a defence (apologeia, 2 Cor 7:11). Apparently, it's not allowed in the church. It's 2 or 3 strikes and you're out. It's like being on probation in the world.
When are these stupid ministers going to realize that with what measure you mete out, IT WILL BE MEASURED BACK TO YOU AGAIN! (Mt 7:2) This means that the worldly authorities are going to round you up, jail you up, condemn you and punish you without giving YOU a chance to plead your innocence. No justice or mercy for you for your injustice and ruthlessness to the sheep of God.
"They make a man a sinner over (just) a word" (Is 29:21)
I subscribed to the JIC precaution, 11:40. In 1972, the Germans didn't land. And there was no "Flee said the fly, so they flew!" But, I made room for the possiblity that the Germans were just a tad tardy, and so hung around until 1975. Still, when I opened my front door each morning, it didn't look anything like the end! We weren't being homosexually molested by all our neighbors, as we walked towards the car to go to work, because, of course, they hadn't gone gay. The food shelves at Kroger were fully stocked. Minorities were not rioting or tearing up the neighborhood. An abundance of what is now called classic rock was playing on the radio,, and the beach was still a blast. Not even a drought. Richard Nixon had been gone for several months and the Vietnam war was over! Future looked pretty bright to me!
There was one thing definitely going on! Bigtime trouble in Pasadena! Huge numbers of ministers leaving, due to GTA's dual lifestyle, and HWA's prolonged failure to even consider re-examining and revising some of the doctrines. Many of the ministers quietly walked away, while others started their own versions of a COG, incorporating into them some of the changes for which HWA would not even read the research. We didn't call them splinters then, and I had no interest in attending a church based on "diet" or "dishwater" Armstrongism! I couldn't understand why people would choose to follow our "Playboy Evangelist", or in the opposite extreme, opt for Raymond Cole who thought the original oppressive doctrines were eternal truths once delivered.
So, you see, the more things change in Armstrongism, the more they stay the same. The lies are just repeated more frequently and vigorously today, because that's the way pain compliance works! People build up a tolerance, so the intensity must be increased in order to achieve the same result. Other intensities have followed. Like the demands on the financial blessings God gives you and your family! The wardens of the ACOGs want them all, and with no overseers monitoring their stewardship! Nasty basties! Lying sacks of Bandini!
Oh my! People wonder why we have so much to say! It's just frustrating to watch because sometimes I think Gamaliel is a low rider! "Low and slow!" is his motto!
Back in the day, HWA seemed to be grateful for the protections which the Bill of Rights and Amendments to the Constitution enumerated and protected so rhat he could do his work unimpeded by the government, but he constantly stated that life in the Worldwide Church of God was not a democracy.
He did not allow such things as free speech in his church, or practice due process, even as he was happy that the laws of the land protected his own rights to these things so that he could get out his message. Living in the WCG was like having an entire extra and completely superfluous layer of government or authority over you. The funny thing is, they didn't even abide by what was outlined in the New Testament itself about going to your brother first, or establishing something via multiple witnesses. Look at his gospel message as it was actually preached, that Jesus Christ would soon return to establish Armstrongism as the government of God on planet Earth for all eternity. We were supposed to be the gatekeepers for the end times, and those who ruled with a rod of iron throughout the millennium and the hundred year period. It was both simplistic and ludicrous.
This is where these demon seeds get their authoritarianism and run over people roughshod with their draconian disfellowshipment. It is an amplification of what HWA did or taught. At best, it's tyranny, and at worst it is conditional love. We only love you if you kow tow to our every whim, or it's the tribulation and Lake of Fire for you, buddy!
32 comments:
Breaking news- Kroger is buying Giant Eagle!
https://ir.kroger.com/news/news-details/2026/Kroger-Announces-Agreement-to-Acquire-Giant-Eagle/default.aspx
What will become of Eagle Point on the Glorious Campus?
Sadly what we have heard here, is being played out in many religious organisations today. Be it JWs, Armstrongism and even within the Muslim community globally. Christ came to set us free, to enable us to have a life more abundant, yet men have laid chains upon us and robbed us of that liberty in Christ. Yet many of us here, reading this blog, joined the Armstrong movement, innocently and sincerely, believing we were doing that which was right in Gods eyes. We all had a longing to belong. Armstrongism for a time for many, did make sense and fulled that need of longing with answers. Looking back now, I have no regrets, and realise that it was simply a path, a journey ultimately to lead us to Jesus Christ and His liberty and the rest to be found in Him. Yet I acknowledge many were hurt by this movement and still are suffering today. I grieve for those still tied to this movement. My two cents worth, cheers.
When RCG goes belly-up, maybe RCG World Headquarters can become a regional management hub for Kroger?
It is good to hear those who are knowledgeable and have left the cult.
For those who haven't watched the whole video, it mentions a doctor who because of the Common doctrine started off with finances in the high seven figures, but left the church with only $100,000.
It looks like there's some truth in prison inmates claiming that the only reason that they are in prison is that they got caught.
Great comment than kyou
What a gas! The thing is, this is an "insert name of ACOG" experience!! You could pick ex members and ex ministers from any of the sphincter groups, and conduct an interview including the reporter who originally exposed it, and exactly the same picture would manifest itself!
Basically, it is an expose of Armstrongism and the inherent evils of such a religious philosophy. One would hope that there are many hungry reporters who will seize this opportunity and continue the exposure!
Interestingly, Dr. Kunz could pass for a cousin or additional brother from the Van Zant family of Lynyrd Skynyrd fame! That alone builds unspeakable trust!
BB
agree and like other responder said a good comment cheers
Cults 101 is that people don't join cults, but join groups that turn out to be cults.
Btw, I noticed that the old WWCG spokesman's club manual had a
heart-to-heart speech assignment near the very beginning of the manual. This was a calculated trap for new members who hadn't yet realized that the church was a cult. As a consequence, many gave away personal details that were weaponized against them by their ministers. The ministers have "dirt files" on all church members to aid them in their lording ways. It's not just written down but also passed along verbally by other ministers and elders. Experiments have shown that simple short stories passed along are repeatedly unrecogniseable after the fifth or sixth person. This was a favourite skit on the older "You're on candid camera" TV show.
Someone recently said "Well no one makes you stay." But the Sunk Cost Fallacy is a factor in RCG's cultic controls.
Why do they stay?
The sunk cost fallacy is a cognitive bias that makes you feel as if you should continue pouring money, time, or effort into a situation since you’ve already "sunk" so much into it already. This perceived sunk cost makes it difficult to walk away from the situation since you don’t want to see your resources wasted.
For example, have you ever stuck with something because you've already put in *so* much effort? Like reading a terrible book because you're already halfway through, so you might as well find out what happens.
When falling prey to the sunk cost fallacy, "the impact of loss feels worse than the prospect of gain, so we keep making decisions based on past costs instead of future costs and benefits," explains Yalda Safai, MD, MPH, a psychiatrist in New York City.
According to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), this leads to irrational, emotion-based decision-making, causing you to spend additional resources on a dead end instead of walking away from the situation that’s no longer serving you.1
Stefanie Haney posed nude in Playboy...interesting background to say the least
Very interesting. Another and perhaps the most destructive "Church of God" is the Philadelphia Church of God in Edmond Ok. This cult is headed by false prophet Gerald Flurry. It is responsible for breaking apart families and even member and ex member suicides. Learn more about it: https://called-chosen.blogspot.com/2025/12/the-evil-church.html
Please help warn others of this dangerous cult.... https://called-chosen.blogspot.com/2026/07/i-have-never-been-alowed-to-see-my.html
Eventually, once they start uncovering a group like RCG and Pack, it will always be traced back to Herbert W. Armstrong and WCG. And it hurts even further the reputation of Armstrongism (as if it can be helped). But Pack's RCG is like taking the whole bottle of opioids instead of just two or three pills per week. I know he must make the other splinter leaders proud.
Why do they stay ? Some for the love of filthy lucre and the perks it provides. Some for the love of power over others, or the illusion of it. Control and manipulation of other humans can become as addictive as drugs.
Jesus warned of dangerous times when the love of many will wax cold, people who spitefully use others. And nowhere has people been more spitefully used than in the Church of God by the very ones who are supposed to care for Jesus sheep. They actually hate the sheep and think they do God a service by abusing them. What dangerous terrible times we live in.
Can you give us the date and month for that?
"Cebrain"!
Interesting interview, near the end Marc Cebrian said there are more ex-RCG members than current RCG members, which is good to hear, that most of them realised RCG was wrong and left.
Yes Christ came to set us free, free from the penalty of sin. So why would anyone return to sin after being freed from the penalty? The great deceiver Satan has convinced many that they are free to anything their heart desires with no penalty from God. Ignoring God's law puts you right back where you started, condemned to death.
Avoura, you are right. I can tell you from experience that there are WAY more ex members of the PCG than there are current members. I believe with the loss of so much income they regret that they let the demon cultpecker put out so many. I was put out based on a lie. With NO counseling, NO chance to defend my self. I was put out, OVER THE PHONE. The demon was lamenting the fact that he had to put out so many people, and how hard it was on him. So many were marked for no good reason. I know I talked to some of them. Good people. I said to it, "after all these years, I'm out, no counseling, no probation or second chance". It told me, "you are no longer a member, do not contact us again", and hung up the phone. I even appealed to King Gerry. well he was not king at that time. But I got no response, he turned my letter over to the demon. Looking back it was a blessing to be set free. I am closer to the Creator than ever before. My only regret is losing my 2 adult children, Elise and Nathan that are still trapped in the cult. And now I have grandchildren that I am not allowed to see or have contact with. https://called-chosen.blogspot.com/2026/07/i-have-never-been-alowed-to-see-my.html
Great job guys! I loved Marc's responses to the corporate line of RCGs response to criticism lol. I mean how pathetic and weak is Dave. Can't even appear on a local news outlet to explain the Church. Then dispatch pathetic comments by "spokesman". I even GTA made public appearances to explain the Church. If it's so great I would think you would want the world to know. Of all the horrible things to get addicted to in life I think getting addicted to Dave is the worst.
Put out over the phone, 8:54?
I was put out by email.
You see, it is easier for them to put you out the quickest way because it is less stressful for them to have to reconcile you.
I suppose they think that Christ will "understand".
I know several people that were put out over the phone. Email, that's a first. Who was the demon that did it?
Exactly. These splinters conform to the "a little leaven leavens the whole batch" principle. They take Herb''s compromised teachings, and take them to the extreme. Dave's Common is just the implementation of the former WCG viewing its members as chattel to be heartlessly exploited.
I just watched the video interview. Where Pack is taking peoples 401K their home, their stock. And other assists. Pack is calling it "In COMMON". They call it the "Common Doctrine". Members have to sell all they have and give as sacrifice for the work". WOW! Look for King Gerry to jump on that one. Flurry's ghostwriter Joel Hilliker is probably working on a "New Revelation" article and sermon now. With a book about it soon.
Any minister who would disfellowship a member via phone or email is subtly acknowledging the relative unimportance of such an act. These days, I suspect that those who are disfellowshipped from RCG or PCG would simply go with one of the less toxic splinters, most likely one of the larger ones which is shrinking at a slower rate. I can only imagine the joy someone from UCG, LCG, or COGWA would experience, knowing that someone from one of the torture chambers had seen the light and escaped. We can say a lot of things about all of these groups. The fact is some of them inflict relatively little Pastoral abuse on their members. We all know the virulently bad players! No worries. Gamliel is on the job. But as these groups come to nought, why not be with one which doesn't treat members quite so badly?
There’s also the JIC. Just in case. I saw this a lot after the changes started to roll out. Too many people would go into their little Pharisaical groups after services and talk about how they better stay “in case” HWA was right, and Tkatch was wrong and they wanted to be there to say I told you so. The other group would talk about how they wanted to stay to see how those HWA zealots were wrong. The whole affair was bat shit crazy, that’s when I said I was out from all of it.
When you look into the founder of ALL those groups. You find HE was a false prophet. And a believer and follower of Allah. So WHY would you want to be a part of that. Just be thankful that the Creator set you free from them.
7:04, the demoniac power that did it, without bothering to give me a reason (I suspect that the impetus came from a discussion that I had with a couple of local men with roots in WCG, who were insignificant leftovers from the glory days, who, one or both, had to run to the President to complain about me), whose name I cannot identify, spoke through Gerald Weston.
What a disappointment. Couldn't give a defence (apologeia, 2 Cor 7:11). Apparently, it's not allowed in the church. It's 2 or 3 strikes and you're out. It's like being on probation in the world.
When are these stupid ministers going to realize that with what measure you mete out, IT WILL BE MEASURED BACK TO YOU AGAIN! (Mt 7:2) This means that the worldly authorities are going to round you up, jail you up, condemn you and punish you without giving YOU a chance to plead your innocence. No justice or mercy for you for your injustice and ruthlessness to the sheep of God.
"They make a man a sinner over (just) a word" (Is 29:21)
I subscribed to the JIC precaution, 11:40. In 1972, the Germans didn't land. And there was no "Flee said the fly, so they flew!" But, I made room for the possiblity that the Germans were just a tad tardy, and so hung around until 1975. Still, when I opened my front door each morning, it didn't look anything like the end! We weren't being homosexually molested by all our neighbors, as we walked towards the car to go to work, because, of course, they hadn't gone gay. The food shelves at Kroger were fully stocked. Minorities were not rioting or tearing up the neighborhood. An abundance of what is now called classic rock was playing on the radio,, and the beach was still a blast. Not even a drought. Richard Nixon had been gone for several months and the Vietnam war was over! Future looked pretty bright to me!
There was one thing definitely going on! Bigtime trouble in Pasadena! Huge numbers of ministers leaving, due to GTA's dual lifestyle, and HWA's prolonged failure to even consider re-examining and revising some of the doctrines. Many of the ministers quietly walked away, while others started their own versions of a COG, incorporating into them some of the changes for which HWA would not even read the research. We didn't call them splinters then, and I had no interest in attending a church based on "diet" or "dishwater" Armstrongism! I couldn't understand why people would choose to follow our "Playboy Evangelist", or in the opposite extreme, opt for Raymond Cole who thought the original oppressive doctrines were eternal truths once delivered.
So, you see, the more things change in Armstrongism, the more they stay the same. The lies are just repeated more frequently and vigorously today, because that's the way pain compliance works! People build up a tolerance, so the intensity must be increased in order to achieve the same result. Other intensities have followed. Like the demands on the financial blessings God gives you and your family! The wardens of the ACOGs want them all, and with no overseers monitoring their stewardship! Nasty basties! Lying sacks of Bandini!
Oh my! People wonder why we have so much to say! It's just frustrating to watch because sometimes I think Gamaliel is a low rider! "Low and slow!" is his motto!
Back in the day, HWA seemed to be grateful for the protections which the Bill of Rights and Amendments to the Constitution enumerated and protected so rhat he could do his work unimpeded by the government, but he constantly stated that life in the Worldwide Church of God was not a democracy.
He did not allow such things as free speech in his church, or practice due process, even as he was happy that the laws of the land protected his own rights to these things so that he could get out his message. Living in the WCG was like having an entire extra and completely superfluous layer of government or authority over you. The funny thing is, they didn't even abide by what was outlined in the New Testament itself about going to your brother first, or establishing something via multiple witnesses. Look at his gospel message as it was actually preached, that Jesus Christ would soon return to establish Armstrongism as the government of God on planet Earth for all eternity. We were supposed to be the gatekeepers for the end times, and those who ruled with a rod of iron throughout the millennium and the hundred year period. It was both simplistic and ludicrous.
This is where these demon seeds get their authoritarianism and run over people roughshod with their draconian disfellowshipment. It is an amplification of what HWA did or taught. At best, it's tyranny, and at worst it is conditional love. We only love you if you kow tow to our every whim, or it's the tribulation and Lake of Fire for you, buddy!
And how would you know that?
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