Showing posts with label Herbert Armstrong. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Herbert Armstrong. Show all posts

Wednesday, January 5, 2022

Crackpot COG Prophet Claims He Did Not Start A New Church

 


It's another sunny day in California and the craziness out of Grover Beach continues unabated. One never knows what fantastical utterance with come from the lips of the most important Church of God leader in human history and the Great White Bwana to Africa and 305 Caucasians.

After getting called out for quoting too much from Herbert Armstrong, and making endless excuses as to why he does so, the Great Bwana said this:

We strive not to teach error and do not teach that what Herbert Armstrong wrote is not subject to correction. The Bible, not Herbert Armstrong, is the standard that we go by. 

The improperly named "continuing" Church of "god" is filled with so many erroneous errors that even Satan himself can't keep up with them!  Starting with his utter rebellion and hissy fit with Rod Meredith and the Living Church of God to his self-appointment due to a bunch of nightmares he had, there is nothing legitimate about this guy. 

Despite organization changes, successively and doctrinally we are NOT a new church. We teach Laying on of Hands succession from the apostles. We clearly trace our history from the Book of Acts to present. 

Herbert Armstrong would have kicked Bob's delicate ass to the curb so fast his flailing hands would never have caught him. Thiel is right up there with Pack and Flurry joining with them in direct rebellion against everything Herbert Armstrong taught. 

Therefore, we often quote Church of God leaders, not just from the New Testament, but also those from the second century A.D. to present. We do this to demonstrate the consistency of the doctrines of the true church as well as to show what “the faith once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3) was in the period immediately after the death of the last of the apostles.

When Bob Thiel says he follows the teachings of the things HWA supposedly restored, he is a liar. 

“Don’t simply believe me – Believe what the Bible really Teaches – Believe the Truth – Prove all things –Believe God!”

And I will take it one step further. Irrespective of how any may view the role that God has for me, unless I am directly quoting the Bible, or preface a statement to something of the effect of “thus saith the Lord,” I am NOT necessarily stating anything that is not subject to later correction. We who are truly part of the Church of God only accept as inspired the 39 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New Testament and no other document. Therefore, although other current and historical documents/articles/books/booklet/posts by various Church of God leaders throughout history often have value, as they generally also tend to contain personal opinion, we do not consider that any of them are on the same level as sacred scripture, and hence believe that they can contain error.

Never has the COG had such a snake in the grass prophet in its midst. Impotent to make a true prophecy, he weasels his way around everything making one excuse after another so that he cannot be pinned down.

Unable to come up with any real doctrines of his own he has to plagiarize everything HWA said, and more.

That being said, Herbert Armstrong’s writing style often conveys many points in an understandable manner. A manner that we do not feel that we must re-word. A manner which provides variety. Hence, he is quoted.

The Almost Arrested Bwana thinks that because he quotes HWA he is continuing those teachings. What balderdash, as HWA would say!

As mentioned before, he and/or the old Radio/Worldwide Church of God literature are quoted here is to show that certain points covered at COGwriter.com are consistent with the them. Hence, we truly are continuing those teachings. Teachings that groups outside the CCOG sometimes have forgotten or neglected to teach.

Remember Bob's main excuse when he apostatized from the Living Church of God and claimed that Meredith and the church failed to heed his correction and correct doctrines and teachings that he claimed were wrong? That's when he had his little fit and left resulting in Rod Meredith publicly rebuking him.

He is also pulling the same hissyfit with GotQuestions.com in its article about Armstrongism...which is spot on its description of Amrstrongism. The Great Bwana and end time Elijah tried to set them straight and they ignored him. The poor little guy just gets NO RESPECT!

Related to one, GotQuestions.com (who still has not corrected something I brought up about a year ago), we put together the following:

What is Armstrongism? Are Some Dismissive of Original Christianity?

The physical head of the old Radio/Worldwide Church of God was the late Herbert W. Armstrong. What he taught has been derided as “Armstrongism.” What were some of those teachings? Was the old Worldwide Church of God some type of weird cult or did it strive to contend earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the saints? Is “Armstrongism” improperly maligned and falsely described at GotQuestions.com? Are concepts such as the tribes of Israel, ‘soul sleep,’ and three resurrections unique to Herbert W. Armstrong or were they long part of original Nazarene Christianity? What about various holidays and Christianity? In this video, Dr. Thiel goes over his early experiences with “Armstrongism” as well as gives scriptures about persecutions that would affect Christians.

But, as a continuation of the true apostolic Church of God, we in the Continuing Church of God believe it is helpful to quote recent as well as ancient COG writers for their perspective and insight, as well as to show continuity. 
 
All who profess Christ should, “contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3). 
 
The reason that we quote the Bible and other COG leaders is to help show that we do.

There is nothing about Bob Thiel's little cult that "contend's earnestly for the faith which was once delivered" It is so far from 1st Century Christianity that the apostles would have rebuked him and cast him out of the church and then would have written an entire book about his heresy and rebellion. 

So when Bob says he did not start a new church he is lying to you. 


 

Friday, October 1, 2021

The 100% Failure Rate Of Prophecy In The Churches of God



In light of the recent post here about Gerald Weston's whitewashing of Herbert Armstrong, Rod Meredith, and the Church of God's abysmal track record on prophecy, I thought this would be a great separate thread.

Weston's explanation of HWA's 1975 in Prophecy booklet might be more believable if HWA hadn't already had a track record by then of making predictions and setting dates, which can be traced all the way back to early editions of the Plain Truth in the 1930s. For instance, the June 1934 edition of the Plain Truth had a chart in it where HWA labeled 1936 as the "end of the age." When that didn't happen, he simply kicked the can down the road a bit and made other predictions, and set other dates, much like Pack, Flurry, and others do today. For example, in the February 1938 Plain Truth, he declared Mussolini the "Beast" of Revelation, and in January of 1939 he further promoted this idea, saying that "MUSSOLINI UNDOUBTEDLY IS THE "BEAST" and "MUSSOLINI WILL FIGHT CHRIST!"


Weston also ignores the fact that HWA also promoted and taught the idea of 19 year time cycles, and made his own claims based on those time cycles. For example, in Chapter 24 of his Autobiography, he has this to say, 


"God set the earth, sun, and moon in their orbits to mark off divisions of time on the 

earth. One revolution of the earth is a day. One revolution of the moon around the earth is a lunar month (according to God’s sacred calendar). One revolution of the earth around the sun is a solar year. But the earth, the sun, and the moon come into almost exact conjunction only once in 19 years. Thus 19 years mark off one complete time-cycle!" 


He went on to use this statement to promote the idea that God timed his entry into the ministry based on the number of time cycles that had occurred since Pentecost of 31AD. 


It is both a double standard and rank hypocrisy to criticize the "speculations" of others, making the statement that "some never learn" while glossing over and excusing the same behavior in the very leaders you hold up as bastions of "truth" such as HWA and Meredith. 


It would be totally refreshing if just one of these guys was able to admit that HWA engaged in this behavior and was WRONG, as did Rod Meredith and others, and that we need to learn from the false claims and sins of our predecessors so we don't fall prey to repeating their mistakes. 


It is contradictory to claim out of one side of your mouth, as HWA did, that you were not called to "be a prophet" while also writing articles and booklets predicting specific events to be fulfilled by specific people, using titles such as "1975 in Prophecy" and also claiming that you are the fulfillment of an end time "voice crying out in the wilderness" as prophesied in Malachi 3:1


"John the Baptist was a voice crying out in the physical wilderness of the Jordan River area, preparing for the human physical Jesus' first coming to a material temple at Jerusalem, to a physical Judah. But that was a type, or forerunner of a voice "lifted up" (greatly amplified by modern printing, radio and TV), crying out in the midst of today's spiritual wilderness of religious confusion, announcing the imminency of Christ's SECOND coming as the spiritually GLORIFIED Christ, to His spiritual temple (the Church resurrected to spirit immortality)." Plain Truth Magazine, January 1980


If you claim you aren't a "prophet" that doesn't excuse you if you then go on to make false predictions, or engage in the same behavior that defines a false prophet.  


Concerned Sister

 In a second comment, there was this:


The date setting, and the abundant evidence of its ongoing denial, backpedaling, and rewrite is exactly why God would have to use a completely new and different group as His end time witness. Armstrongism has burned itself as a credible witness, and current members are just kidding themselves if they think otherwise. The credibility of other Christian groups has also fallen apart.

If you're just pulling into town from the feast, looking forward to a sabbath in your home town, and thinking to yourself "See? We have the truth about God's test commandment, the sabbath, so God will reveal His plans to us!", then you better wonder about the effectiveness of the sabbath as a signifier of God's True Church, because Armstrongism has a 100% failure rate in end time prophecy, dating way back to the WW-II era when HWA was preaching that the war would culminate in Armageddon, Hitler and Mussolini were the Beast, and Pope Pius was the AntiChrist. And, this was before Israel was even reborn as a nation, which was very necessary for the prophecies in Revelation to come to pass. For years, he denied that Hitler's body was Hitler, and preached that he was alive in South America, and would arise to complete the job. Sounds soooo much like a recent president, doesn't he? False leaders are always detached from reality!

Monday, August 30, 2021

Bob Thiel Gives "A Few Tips on Ending Your Financial Worries

Well, actually HWA's "Tips" being too lazy, unwilling, or unable to express it himself evidently.  I also don't recall HWA offering to end my financial worries with mere "tips".  

Not taking the "tips" had real consequences as I recall for both member and minister



 

A few tips on ending your financial worries


Ending Your
FINANCIAL WORRIES
by Herbert W. Armstrong
©Copyright 1959 
 
What Most People Don’t Know 

There is something you probably don’t know about your income. If there is anything people are jealous of, it is the money they earn. They usually work hard for it. And they want full freedom in deciding for themselves what they do with it. 
 
People say: “What I earn is MINE — I can do what I please with it!”

But is the money you earn really your own? Don’t be too sure. Notice these FACTS about your income you probably haven’t known!

What you earn is not yours!

The man who says, “What I do with the money I earn with my own labor is nobody’s business — I produced it — it belongs to me,” is mistaken. 
 
What you earn, by work performed or investments made is not yours — not any of it — that is, not UNTIL …! 
 
And here is what most people don’t know about their income! 
 
There are two prior claims on your income. One, of course, is taxes. 
 
Human governments, by virtue of MAN-made laws, are able forcibly to extract from your incomes not one tenth, but an average of over ONE QUARTER, a vast amount of which is mis-spent. Jesus said we are to pay taxes — render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s — be subject to the powers that be. Governments, therefore, have exercised a PRIOR right to one quarter of your income — and in the case of salary or wages, governments take it out BEFORE YOU get your pay. 
 
But the first claim is GOD’S claim. You probably never realized this fact before — but it is a fact. God Almighty the living CREATOR-RULER of the universe claims it all — every dollar — every pound — every franc — every mark. Your Maker who gives you the very air you breathe tells you it all belongs to Him, not to you!  
 
But didn’t you earn it? Didn’t YOU produce it? 
 
Not exactly! Everything produced — money, and all that money can buy — comes out of the earth. You didn’t produce that! God created that. You merely applied certain energy in physical action and in thinking to what God had created and owned. And God created even that energy you expended — He created your thinking processes. He not only created, originally, but He sustains what He created, including all force and energy."...

Therefore GOD HAS A RIGHT to take, or dispose of what you regard as your income AS HE WILLS. He OWNS it. It is not yours, it is HIS!

So God, the rightful OWNER of your income, has MADE A LAW respecting its disposal and its use. By virtue of being Creator and Sustainer of the earth and all in it, God is supreme RULER and LAWGIVER...

God takes only ONE tenth. And after you have been honest in PAYING God’s tenth to God’s chosen representative, then — AND NOT UNTIL THEN — God has decreed that the other NINE tenths becomes legally YOURS!

THAT’S GOD’S LAW(Note:  Hey wait!  I thought it was just a "Tip"?) Not a penny of what you earn, or a penny’s worth of the value of what you produce, is YOURS — it ALL belongs to God to do with as HE directs. But God has legally directed that after you have honestly paid Him the one little, small tenth He requires for His use, then the other NINE tenths He gives to YOU. Then, and not until then, you can rightfully claim OWNERSHIP over that nine tenths. Then and thereafter it is YOURS to do with as YOU decide.

When we get our thinking straight — when we get UNDERSTANDING — when we stop to realize HOW MUCH of what we have was provided by GOD — then we realize how LOVING, how GENEROUS, how solicitous for our welfare God is.

Thanks for the tips!
 Any "tips" on upcoming Holyday Offerings?



Thursday, August 12, 2021

Was Herbert Armstrong The Elijah Of The Endtimes?



 

From an LCG source:

The topic has come up recently about whether HWA viewed himself as Elijah. Below are some excerpts from WCG literature and correspondence, which hopefully will clear it up. Members of the Church seemed to believe he was Elijah, and there is no indication that HWA attempted to correct this. The fact that the Church chose to publish, rather than squash, such comments indicates approval of and agreement with the comments, and the intent to influence the readers to favor that view.

Comments From Monthly Church Reports, PGR May 15, 1981.  

MIAMI, FL--AL KERSHA: Mr. Herbert Armstrong's sermon (delivered via the movie screen) was as strong and motivating as I have ever heard him in the 15 years I have been in the Church. The message was clear, earnest and powerful. Certainly an excellent message in preparation for the Passover and days of Unleavened Bread. In physical appearance Mr. Armstrong looked about 70; in spirit and power he sounded like a 35-40 year old man. The spirit and power that was in Elijah is obviously moving him. 

 

Weekly Letter Comments, PGR June 5, 1981. 

Yesterday we were blessed to hear from Mr. Gerald Waterhouse! I don't believe anyone left not having learned something new, or realizing even more the importance of God's Work and you (Mr. Armstrong) being the Elijah of this end time. He was, as always, very interesting and quite humorous! We are thankful for him and his helping all of us to speak the same thing. T.B. (Fincastle, VA) 

 

H.W.A. Diary by Robert E. Fahey, PGR Aug. 7, 1981. 

When Mr. Armstrong began I was all prepared to hear about the two trees once more. But I was in for a surprise. The beauty and blessings that we had seen seemed to inspire Mr. Armstrong to the sobering awareness that the national sins of the House of Joseph would cause God to remove the peace and prosperity from our peoples. "Britain and the United States are going down! And OUT!!" he thundered. "Like Elijah, I say to you, if God be God, GET OVER ON HIS SIDE! If this is God's Church, GET OVER ON HIS SIDE!" Then he went on to show that as Zerubbabel had prepared a physical temple among physical Israel for the physical Jesus to come to, so he was called to prepare a spiritual temple (the Church) of spiritual Israelites for the resurrected SPIRITUAL CHRIST to come to and make His own. 

 

Comments from Monthly Church reports, PGR Oct. 21, 1983.  

ROANOKE, VA--ROBERT PERSKY: All of the brethren who attended the Feast thought it was the best Feast ever. They all wished Mr. Armstrong had spoken longer on the Last Great Day. They always look forward with great anticipation to hearing him speak. They know he is God's end-time apostle and the "Elijah" of Malachi 4. 

 

Members' Reflections About the Church, PGR Nov 4, 1983.  

What a wonderful privilege it is to help hold up Elijah's hands and to have a small part in preparing the way for Christ to return, which shall end mankind's suffering. A.D. (Somerset, KY) 

 

From Ministerial Services, PGR June 7, 1985.  

Jesus Christ told His disciples, "Elijah truly is coming first and will restore all things" (Matt. 17:ll). The many truths of God's plan and supreme purpose for His Church and eventually all mankind have been restored in God's Church through His end-time Apostle. Yet, as Paul warns, we can, through neglect, let these things slip away from us! Mr. Armstrong has brought into sharp focus these "mysteries," now restored to God's Church, in his book MYSTERY OF THE AGES. As he has mentioned in the Refreshing Program, this is a book that should be reread as soon as we finish it the first time, in order to really soak up what God is teaching us. Learning is indeed a lifelong process. We must continue to study and review God's Word all our lives. 

 

Booklet: Inside Story of The World Tomorrow Broadcast 

But Who Is Behind All This ? 

Just as Noah, a "preacher of righteousness" (II Pet. 2 : 5 ) , stood ALONE in warning the world of his day of its impending destruction ; just as Abraham, with his family, stood ALONE in obeying God in his day; just as Moses, "whom they refused" ( Acts 7 : 35 ) , stood ALONE when God first began dealing with ancient Israel and bringing them out of slavery in Egypt; just as Elijah warned ancient Israel and cried out : "I am left ALONE, and they seek my life" ( Rom. 1 1 : 3 ); just as John the Baptist stood ALONE, not affiliated with the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes or any of the other religious groups of his day warning Israel of his day "like a voice in the wilderness" ; so Mr. Armstrong and this prophetic Work stand ALONE as God's instrument in warning the modern descendants of ancient Israel America and the British Commonwealth of Nations-of their coming national punishment, and heralding the second coming of Jesus Christ JN PERSON as King of kings and Lord of lords !  

 

Just as Elijah trained the "sons of the prophets" to aid him in ancient Israel 

( II Kings 2 : 35); just as John the Baptist had his disciples and assist ants ; just as Jesus Christ Himself trained young men as disciples to assist Him in the ministry as He stood ALONE against religionists of His day; so Mr. Armstrong has founded the Ambassador Colleges to train dedicated servants of God who bring forth the "fruits" showing that Goo has called them to aid in this ministry of preaching the true Message of God's soon coming, world ruling Government, and standing ALONE as God's "watchman" (Ezek. 33:2) to warn modern Israel of exact and SPECIFIC punishments from God! These prophesied punishments on our people are right NOW beginning to have a great effect on the lives of every one of you who is 1'eading this booklet.' As I have already shown you, the men in this Work of God are alert, intelligent, successful and balanced men. But we DARE to preach a Message that is definitely DIFFERENT from the hackneyed, sentimental ideas going about today under the name of "religion." 

 

Mystery of the Ages, pp. 290-291 

This era of the Church was to produce fruit. To this era-or to its human leader-God had set before it an open door. It is recorded in I1 Corinthians 2:12 and also Acts 14:27 how Christ opened the door for Paul to go into other countries to preach the gospel. This Church and/or its leader had but little strength. Neither were of great and powerful stature in Satan’s world but those of this era were faithful to the Word of God. Though much of the original gospel truth, imparted to the original apostles by Jesus in person, had been lost, it was restored through the Bible to this era of God’s Church who were faithful in keeping it. It is revealed in Malachi 3:l-5 and 4:5-6 that God would raise up one in the power and spirit of Elijah, shortly prior to the Second Coming of Christ. In Matthew 17:11 Jesus said, even after John the Baptist had completed his mission, that this prophesied Elijah “truly shall first come, and restore all things.” Although it is plainly revealed that John the Baptist had come in the power and spirit of Elijah, he did not restore anything. The human leader to be raised up somewhat shortly prior to Christ’s Second Coming was to prepare the way-prepare the Church-for Christ’s coming, and restore the truth that had been lost through the preceding eras of the Church. Also a door was to be opened for this leader and/or the Philadelphia era of the Church to fulfill Matthew 24:14: “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.” It was to be at a time when, for the first time in the history of mankind, the weapons of mass destruction were produced that could erase all humanity from the earth (Matt. 24:21-22). This also was to occur just before the Second Coming of Christ (verses 29-30). These prophecies have now definitely been fulfilled. The true gospel has been restored and has now gone in power into every nation on the face of the earth.

Sunday, June 27, 2021

The Irreconcilable Breach Between Sabbatarian Christians and Sunday Christians


 

Sabbatarian Christians vs Sunday Christians


In my last post, we established that there were two varieties of Christianity extant in the First Century - one which adhered to Jewish laws, rituals, and traditions and another which did not. We observed how Christ's original apostles and his brother James came to lead and represent the Jewish branch of the faith, and how Paul came to represent and lead the Gentile branch of the faith. We also looked at a great deal of evidence which suggested the presence of tensions (and even open hostility) between the two branches at various times. Nevertheless, although the question of whether an irreconcilable breach developed between the two camps was discussed in some of the commentary which followed that post's publishing on Banned by HWA, I felt that it would be instructive for many of the former and current Armstrongites who make up my audience to directly address that topic in another post.


For, while it may be clear that the arguments between Torah Christians and Sunday Christians began in the First Century, it may not be as clear to us exactly when the two perspectives diverged enough that they began to regard each other as not representing a legitimate variety of their shared faith in Christ. Today, of course, we take it for granted that Sunday Christians regard Sabbatarian Christians as heretical and vice versa; but our examination of the evidence in the previous post implies that that was not always the case. Moreover, tracing the historical origins of this breach has a much more practical application than merely satisfying our intellectual curiosity about it, we intuitively comprehend that a better understanding of those events will help us to clarify our own thinking on the subject and make us more tolerant of each other going forward.

For starters, it is critical that we understand that these two branches of the Christian faith arose as a natural consequence of its expansion - NOT as some grand Satanic conspiracy of the Roman emperor and church! It is indisputable that Christ, his apostles (including Paul) and the earliest Christians were Jewish (encompassing all that that designation suggests like circumcision, Sabbath and Holy Day observances, the Temple at Jerusalem, synagogues, clean and unclean meats, etc.). After the previous post in this series, it should also be apparent that Gentile Christians did not have this background, and that the overwhelming majority of them NEVER adopted those Jewish laws, rituals and traditions.

 

However, just as the accounts which we have in the Christian canon demonstrate the genesis of the two branches of the Christian faith and give us a window into some of the tensions and hostilities which developed between the two camps, they also demonstrate that most of these early Christians tried very hard to tolerate and accommodate each other. Hence, the question arises: When did the breach between these two branches of the Christian faith become irreconcilable?


In attempting to answer that question, most biblical scholars and students try very hard not to project our own experiences, views, and prejudices onto the people and events of the past. Unfortunately, despite our best efforts, we are often not successful in this regard.

At the end of my last post, I referenced a number of biblical scholars whom I believe have made significant contributions to our understanding of First Century Christianity. One of those scholars, a professor by the name of James Tabor (who was formerly associated with Armstrong's Ambassador College), was particularly helpful in summarizing many of the findings which some of our finest modern scholars have contributed to our understanding of this period of Christian history. Even so, in reviewing the same evidence, I also find myself in disagreement with some of Professor Tabor's answers to our question about the timing of the irreconcilable breach.


In his book Paul and Jesus, Tabor contended that the irreconcilable breach happened in the lifetime of the apostles (Paul, Peter, James and John). Tabor sets up his final chapter (The "Battle of the Apostles") with some remarks about Paul's views of the Torah. He concluded that "it should not surprise us that Paul ended up in a bitter struggle with Peter, James, and the original apostles, who claimed to faithfully carry on the message of Jesus." Tabor continued: "We have only Paul's side of that conflict, and his decisive break with Jerusalem is glossed over in Acts, but there is enough evidence still to piece together the story."


Is that true? Did Peter, James, and Paul end their lives as "bitter rivals" - as suggested by Tabor?

While my previous post suggests my broad agreement with the scholarly narrative about the differences which existed between the Jewish and Gentile varieties of early Christianity (and the eventual triumph of the Pauline Gentile variety), I do NOT believe that the evidence points to an irreconcilable break in the time of the apostles. Once again, both accounts of the Jerusalem Council (Acts and Galatians) reflect the fact that some kind of accommodation was reached between the two branches of the faith. Moreover, I don't buy Tabor's contention that Paul's theology was so radically different (in conjunction with the evidence provided by Paul's second epistle to the saints of Corinth and James more general epistle) that it eventually proved to be the death knell for that "understanding" reached at Jerusalem. In other words, while I believe that the evidence demonstrates tensions (which on occasion bubbled to the surface as open hostility) existed between Paul and the original apostles, I don't believe the evidence supports the proposition that those differences ever provoked a clean break between the apostles.

 

In terms of Tabor's assertions about just how radically different Paul's theology was from the Jerusalem apostles, an example will demonstrate my departure from Tabor's narrative. Tabor asserted that Paul's understanding of the Eucharist was very different from that of the Jewish apostles. According to him, the three earliest gospels (Mark, Matthew, and Luke) derived their accounts of the Last Supper from Paul. He reasoned that, because Paul's account of the Last Supper in his first epistle to the saints at Corinth (see I Corinthians 10:16-21 and 11:23-20) predated the finished gospel accounts by ten to twenty years. it is clear that they derived their narratives from him.


For the sake of argument, we will set aside the fact that Tabor himself admits that those three gospel accounts were derived in part from earlier sources and focus instead on his "evidence" for an alternative narrative regarding the Last Supper. He pointed out that John's gospel didn't mention the bread and the wine in its narrative about that event, and that The Didache seems to present a different understanding of the symbolism surrounding those elements. Hence, in fairness to Tabor and the integrity of our search for the truth, we must examine both of these documents to ascertain whether or not they support his narrative about Paul's Last Supper.


First, while it is true that the gospel attributed to John does not include the elements of the bread and the wine in its account of the Last Supper (see John 13), we must not forget that "Paul's elements" are an integral part of this gospel's narrative. In fact, as part of the account of Christ's message to his disciples that evening, Jesus is said to have referred to himself as "the true grapevine" (see John 15:1-8, NLT). According to this account, he went on to tell them that "apart from me you can do nothing" (the clear implication being that Christ is the vine that makes their salvation possible). Moreover, we should also remember that using grapevines and their fruit in such a symbolic manner was not foreign to either Jews or Jewish Christians as Tabor seems to imply (see Genesis 49:11 and Revelation 14). But what about the bread?

Earlier in that same Gospel, we read that Christ declared: "I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." (John 6:48-51, KJV) And, lest there be any doubt that John's gospel is placing the exact same language which Paul and the other gospels employed in Christ's mouth, the account continues: "The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever." (John 6:52-58, KJV)

 

What about The Didache? In the section of that document dealing with the Eucharist, we read: "Now concerning the Eucharist, give thanks this way. First, concerning the cup: We thank thee, our Father, for the holy vine of David Thy servant, which You madest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever. And concerning the broken bread: We thank Thee, our Father, for the life and knowledge which You madest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever. Even as this broken bread was scattered over the hills, and was gathered together and became one, so let Thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Thy kingdom; for Thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever..But let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist, unless they have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, "Give not that which is holy to the dogs." So, we clearly have the elements of the bread and wine included in this early "Jewish Christian" account of the teachings of the apostles.

 

Moreover, lest there be any doubt about the symbolism being tied to Jesus Christ, these instructions were followed by a Eucharist prayer to be used in Christian worship services. We read: "But after you are filled, give thanks this way: We thank Thee, holy Father, for Thy holy name which You didst cause to tabernacle in our hearts, and for the knowledge and faith and immortality, which You modest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever. Thou, Master almighty, didst create all things for Thy name's sake; You gavest food and drink to men for enjoyment, that they might give thanks to Thee; but to us You didst freely give spiritual food and drink and life eternal through Thy Servant. Before all things we thank Thee that You are mighty; to Thee be the glory for ever. Remember, Lord, Thy Church, to deliver it from all evil and to make it perfect in Thy love, and gather it from the four winds, sanctified for Thy kingdom which Thou have prepared for it; for Thine is the power and the glory for ever. Let grace come, and let this world pass away. Hosanna to the God (Son) of David! If any one is holy, let him come; if any one is not so, let him repent. Maranatha. Amen." Hence, we can see that both John's gospel and The Didache employed the same kind of language and symbolism with regard to the Eucharist/Last Supper which Paul and the other gospels used in their accounts of those events.

 

Well, maybe they weren't as far apart in their theology as Tabor suggested, but what about the evidence he cited from Paul's second letter to the Corinthians and James' general epistle? Let's begin our evaluation of Professor Tabor's evidence by addressing Paul's second epistle to the saints of Corinth.

 

However, before we address the actual language of this second epistle to the Corinthians, I would like to remind my readers that Paul was not bashful about naming names in either his first epistle to the Corinthians (see I Corinthians 1:11-12) or his letter to the saints of Galatia. In fact, while expressing his anger over a similar situation (Jewish Christians trying to require his converts to observe the tenets of the Torah) at Galatia, Paul says that he had to confront Peter over his behavior. (see Galatians 2:11-14)Hence, as almost all biblical scholars acknowledge this second epistle to the saints of Corinth as one of the undisputed writings of the apostle, it seems odd that Paul never mentioned Peter, James and John in connection with his angry rant about "false" and "super" apostles. (see II Corinthians 11 and 12) Thus, while it is clear that the false apostles which he was referring to in this passage were Jewish Christians (see II Corinthians 11:22), it is also clear that Paul was employing hyperbolic language to defend his own apostolic office and authority. In other words, he was only interested in their claims in so far as they related to his own claims vis-Ă -vis the Corinthians. And, finally, if this is the evidence of a final split between the leading figures of the two branches of the Christian Church, we must insist that some explanation be forthcoming in relation to the fact that Paul was soliciting an offering on behalf of those Jewish Christians in the passages immediately preceding these. (see II Corinthians 9, NLT)

 

Now, we come at last to the epistle of James. First, it should be noted that most biblical scholars either attribute this writing to the brother of Jesus by that name, or some anonymous person writing in his name (and I concur with this conclusion). Hence, I would not dispute Tabor's assertion that this letter is connected to that leader of the Jewish Christians mentioned in the account of the Jerusalem Council recorded in the book of Acts. However, when the professor goes on to imply that the epistle's references to faith without works and controlling one's tongue was really directed at the apostle Paul, we are forced to ask where's the evidence for supposing this? After all, the author of the epistle states that he is addressing "the twelve tribes - Jewish believers scattered abroad." (see James 1:1, NLT)


In fact, it is here that Tabor's narrative about the breach demands the greatest leap of faith. He implies that James and Paul are being very careful to cover up their breach, and that other writers of the period have conspired to conceal the breach. I will simply state what others before me have observed: The claim of such an extraordinary conspiracy requires extraordinary proof! Following this line of reasoning, we are led to believe that the statement in the second epistle attributed to Peter was written to further this conspiracy. (see II Peter 3:15-16)

Finally, although the New Testament is devoid of any mention of the fate of these men, tradition informs us that Peter, James and Paul all suffered martyrdom as a consequence of their faith in Jesus Christ. Hence, while I accept much of Tabor's narrative about the differences between Paul's brand of Christianity and the one practiced by Peter and James, I simply do not believe that the evidence supports an irreconcilable breach between the men. While I see ample evidence of the tensions (and sometimes open hostility) between these men, I do not see the proof that they died enemies.


On the contrary, both from the perspective of the New Testament and the writings of the generations which followed them, it appears that the irreconcilable breach between the two branches of Christianity happened sometime after the deaths of these men. And, while I am confident that the Roman suppressions of the Jewish rebellions and subsequent persecution of them exacerbated the tensions and animosities which were already apparent between the two groups, it is clear to me that the thing most responsible for that final breach was a hardening of attitudes within the groups themselves. Over time, many of the folks within both camps simply decided that the folks in the other camp had strayed too far from the principles of their faith to continue to be regarded as brothers in Christ!

 

In this respect, Herbert Armstrong and his followers have been very much like the Jewish Christians still extant at the close of the First Century and the beginning of the Second Century. They have decided that they are keeping the flame of the "original" Christian Church alive, and that Protestants and Catholics are all apostates - not really Christians at all! Likewise, many Catholic and Protestant Christians see their Sabbatarian brethren in exactly the same light - heretics that cannot really be considered Christians!

However, after a careful examination of the evidence available to us, I am hopeful that modern Christians will take a page out of the playbook of those First Century Christians. I'm hopeful that the Christians of our day will remember a time when Jewish and Gentile Christians not only tolerated each other, but also sought to accommodate each other's practice of their shared faith in Jesus Christ. What do you think?


***I know that this is a long treatise, but James Tabor did write an entire book on the subject! Moreover, I don't think that anyone who is truly interested in the subject will mind the longer post (and I am willing to discuss the thesis presented here in even more detail for those who may be interested in doing so). Thank you for your time and attention!***  

By Lonnie Hendrix

Thursday, April 8, 2021

Pasadena: Home of Religious Kooks Since 1942

 


1945 article about The Remnant Church of God who made the same stupid prediction for the end of the world that Herbert Armstrong did and which various COG leaders lie about today claiming HWA never set dates.

Not only has Pasadena produced crackpot Rev. Long, but also L Ron Hubbard, Alistar Crowley, Herbert and Garner Ted Armstrong along with their legion of deluded false prophet dupes, but also the Flat Earth Society which some Church of God members actually believe in.

L Ron Hubbard and Aleister Crowley were friends of Jack Parsons (founder of JPL) who had a house on South Orange Grove Blvd called The Parsonage, where they took drugs and practiced satanism and devil worship.

The Church of God International and Herbert W Armstrong’s Legacy

 



Please note: 

 "Miller Jones requests that you direct all commentary on this piece to him and that you leave his father alone."


The Church of God International and Herbert W Armstrong’s Legacy

The late Ian Boyne once wrote: “I am happy for the CGI, to which I belong, which retains the finest teachings of Herbert Armstrong without the dross and the excesses. I am NOT saying it is the only true church! For all GTA’s moral weaknesses and reprehensible personal behavior, he reformed a system without throwing out the baby with the bathwater.  Ron Dart’s work in the CGI has also been invaluable in preserving an intellectually respectable brand of Armstrongism.”

This sentiment (that CGI has gotten rid of all of Herbie’s errors and kept the good stuff) is/was NOT peculiar to Ian Boyne. Indeed, similar comments have been posted here in relation to many of the things which I’ve posted over the years relative to that group. In fact, some commentators have even suggested that my refusal to acknowledge this “fact” is proof that I was never actually affiliated with the group (never mind the numerous articles written by me for The International News over the years). Hence, I thought that it would be instructive to take another look at this claim and see how it measures up to the reality on the ground.

First, I have always been willing to acknowledge that CGI made significant changes to Herbie’s teachings about church government. CGI should be applauded for its more enlightened views on the meaning of servant leadership, but it should also be noted that the group still occasionally practices censorship and disfellowshipping within its ranks. And, while folks like Ian Boyne rejected Anglo-Israelism, Pastor Bill Watson continues to incorporate it into his messages and insist that it is an integral part of the church’s teachings. Also, to be fair, CGI has abandoned some of Herbie’s bizarre notions about things like divorce, make-up, healing, and personal finances.

Nevertheless, I must dispute in the strongest terms available to me that CGI has retained “the finest teachings of Herbert Armstrong.” For instance, the group continues to maintain that Christians are obligated to keep many of the tenets of the Old Covenant (Sabbath, Holy Days, Tithing, Clean/Unclean Meats). Likewise, they have retained many of Herbie’s twisted notions about prophecy, the “incredible human potential,” the “world tomorrow,” angels, Binitarianism, the meaning of Holy Day symbolism, the “truth” as the marker of a real Christian, the “true” gospel and the rejection of all things “pagan.”

I can hear it now, “Well, what’s wrong with those things?” Unfortunately, the plain truth is that the Church of God International has retained MOST of the core doctrines/teachings of Herbert W Armstrong. Yes, a search of their website may not turn up any mention of the man, but his fingerprints are all over the teachings and traditions of the Church of God International – whether or not they’re willing to acknowledge it!

 

--Miller Jones

Friday, February 19, 2021

When Herbert Armstrong Said Interracial Marriage Would Be Satan's Next Attack

 

A reader sent a link to Herbert Armstrong's 1982 article on interracial marriage. Here are several excerpts:

Satan's Next Attack:

Today I want to speak on what may possibly be the very next attack that Satan will use against this church. I was studying at lunch before the meeting last Sabbath, with our minister there and he said "I think that very likely, the next attack of Satan" — now there was the attack of the State of California against us. There's been another attack that most of you don't even know anything about. It only hit a few of us at the top. But there has been trouble and don't you think there hasn't. Satan is on the job. But Christ is on the job and Christ is winning. And always will win! It's like my executive assistant, Bob Fahey said, he's looked at the book to see how it comes out in the end, and he says we win. Yes we do. That's the way it's going to turn out. At least Christ is going to win and we'll only win if we're on Christ's side. We don't need to worry about getting Christ over on our side. But he said, the thing that's going to hit this church next, that Satan's going to use, is interracial marriage. 
 
Oh the pity. People can sometimes get their feelings all stirred up to a red hot pitch on something of that kind. Their prejudices, their emotions, their feelings. God almighty created us all. He put us here for a purpose. And we don't have much longer. And we need to look into this. Now that was in New York City last Sabbath. On the plane, coming back, Mr. Fahey showed me a letter that had been handed to him from a member. I believe this member is in, yes, just across in New Jersey, just across from New York but had attended the service. And she had been talking to another member who lives in Philadelphia. And there'd been quite a heated conversation on the telephone. And I want to read you just one slight little bit of what was in that message and what is coming up in the church now. And you're going to have to — IF GOD BE GOD GET ON HIS SIDE. AND IF YOU WANT TO GO WITH THIS WORLD AND THE WAY IT'S GOING, GET OVER ON THAT SIDE, and go into the lake of fire with it. That's all I have to say. 

Herbert, being the Herbert he was, now has to use the proverbial threat of the "lake of fire" for anyone that dare questions him. 

I just want to read a few, this is about a 3 or 4 page letter, so, I'll just read a part of it. She says,
"During the conversation, [that's the telephone conversation, that's the telephone conversation she had with this woman in Philadelphia] it was stated that the blacks in God's church are dissatisfied with such doctrines that are not keeping with the current social trend in the world, which they feel are in keeping with the premises of international relationships that are a part of this nation's background"

So we should go along with our nation and the social trends of the world. And this letter also says that they are trying to line up a group of blacks, TO GIVE ME AN ULTIMATUM! THAT I GET ON THE SIDE OF THE TRENDS, THE SOCIAL TREND OF THIS WORLD. OR ELSE! I'll tell you what I'll give them. I'll give them OR ELSE. I won't compromise one millionth of an inch. And if you will, you can go into the lake of fire if you want to. Now, I've never started a fight in my life but let me tell you, I've won every fight I've ever been in. But someone else always started it. I don't want to start a fight. I'm the servant of the Most High God. And I'm as much a servant of blacks or of yellows or of any other color, pinks, polka dots, anything you want to mention - and the like. But I know what God has said. And that's what I'm teaching you and that's the way this church is going to go. We're getting this church back on God's track. That's where it's going to be and that's where it's going to stay.

Next, Herbert is not happy that the college was attempting to not discriminate on race and sought to increase its racial balance. Racial equity is a thing of Satan!

Also, I understand that some are saying, we've got to have racial balance at Ambassador College. Well, what does God say about that? WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO WITH THESE TRENDS OF THE WORLD!! THE POLITICAL FOOTBALLS, THE SOCIAL TRENDS, THE THINGS OF SATAN. Those are all the ways of Satan and now God is going to use us because there are laws in the supreme courts of the United States. They passed a law here a few years ago and they're taking advantage of it. Now, they may try to get laws, use the laws for the sake of the nation, against us if we don't approve interracial marriage. But I say, as for me and my house, we shall serve the Eternal God. What are you going to say?

Then he goes on to say this, which doesn't t compute with the above comments:

Now let me tell you something. This isn't anything to get all emotional about at all. I happened to be born white. I don't know why? I'm not white. They just call it that. I'm anything but white. So are any the rest of you that think you are. You're not. But what difference does it make? If we make it into the Kingdom of God, what color skin are we going to have? You ever think of that? We're not going to have any skin at all. But our eyes are going to be like flames of fire and our faces are going to be like the sun full strength. What color is that? It's so bright it'll blind you if you look without a smoked glass. And that's the way it's going to be.

Then Herbert takes a rapid descent down eh rabbit hole:

Matthew 24:37-38 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,

What's wrong with eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage? How did these things bring an end to that world? Those are the things he mentioned that brought an end to that world. And those same things are bringing an end to this world now. Alright, let's go back to that world and see what the history of it is.

Wives they chose:

Genesis 6:1-2 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, (2) That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Which THEY chose. That's what they want to do today. A black man wants to take a white woman for a wife. That's what HE chooses. A white woman wants to become the wife of a black man. Now I don't know of any cases where a white man wants to marry a black woman. Why is that? Answer that for me! I'd like to have someone give me an answer to that. Why is it our white women want to marry black men? Why is it our black men want to marry white women? Black women don't seem to want to marry white men and white men don't seem to want to marry black women. Why? It's time we begin to think about these things and quit boiling up with our emotions.

Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 
 
So God just ended that world. Did you ever think about, why did God absolutely kill or murder if you want to call it that every human being that except Noah and his family, eight people? They were bringing us even unhappiness and misery on themselves. Sure they were getting a kick out of life. They were doing things they thought would be pleasurable. That they thought would be exciting. They had violence and oh how exciting that was. The earth was filled with violence. Something caused it. Jesus told the cause. He said they were eating and drinking; they were marrying and giving in marriage. That's the only thing that you can find in the Bible that will give you a cause for the end of that world then.

Eating and drinking is a bigger sin than racial bias, apparently. Eat that extra cupcake when you know you shouldn't have? Lake of fire for you! No kingdom of God for you!

Now what's wrong about eating and drinking? Nothing at all if you eat and drink the right kind of — water or the right kind of, well orange juice is fine, and even wine in the small amounts, with temperance. But drunkenness is not right. No drunkard is ever going to enter into the Kingdom of God. And eating the wrong kind of food and eating too much is a sin. Now a little bit of it can be a very mild sin and I guess every one of us is guilty of that. We don't seem to realize that, that's important. What we eat is important. More than we realize. We just go along with what pleases us. What appeals to our appetite, our desire of wanting to get, wanting to have, wanting to enjoy. And we're in a very small wisp of a lifetime and judgment is on us as to whether we're going to have joy and happiness and peace and everything wonderful FOREVER. And we're just letting this time go by, most of us, without taking it very seriously.

The cause of our troubles:  

Now I want to go into some of that with you. Let's get a little bit about the Way of God. Turn to Deuteronomy. 
 
Deuteronomy 32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, 
 
Oh today they say that the cause of our troubles and racial troubles is segregation. So the Supreme Court of the United States, in human wisdom, without any wisdom from God, says we're going to have integration. Man wants to go — you see, man chooses him the way that seems right in his own eyes. He takes to himself the knowledge of what is good and evil. That's what our Supreme Court did. But… 
 
Deuteronomy 32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, [notice, segregation not integration] he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. 
 
Different people, different families or different races, had their own land, their own plot of the earth. And God's way is GEOGRAPHICAL SEGREGATION. AND INTEGRATION IS NOT THE WAY OF THE ETERNAL GOD (pounds on desk). It's the way of deceiving man. It's the way of Satan. And look what its doing in this country. Look what is going on in the 1960's in this nation and the violence that came here and there and all over the nation. I'll be going over this in other sermons that are coming on, like I did fifteen or twenty years ago. It's time to get back to a lot of that again. Because man always thinks he knows better than God. It's all what man thinks is the right way to go.  
Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: 

Herbert's god has decreed segregation! 

Adam begat a son in his likeness. A black man married to a black woman begets a son after his likeness or a daughter maybe and they will be black. A white man and a white woman begat a son or a daughter after their likeness, and the son or the daughter will be white. And if you mix it, they won't be either one. They'll be part one and part the other, a blend of the two. Now I want to go a little further. But man, going the way HE chose, marrying the ones HE chose, instead of the way God said it should be, wanted to amalgamate, wanted to integrate. God had decreed segregation. Man wanted integration. 

Genesis 11:1-8 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. (2) And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; [And this is after the flood now, shortly after the flood] and they dwelt there. (3) And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. (4) And they said, Go to, [that is, "let's get going here"] let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; [skyscrapers, we call them] and let us make us a name, [WHY?] lest we be scattered [or segregated. We want integration WE don't want segregation. Lest we be segregated, scattered.] abroad upon the face of the whole earth. (5) And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. (6) And the Eternal said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. (7) Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. (8) So the Eternal scattered them [or segregated them — He didn't integrate them, He segregated them and scattered them] abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
  
Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families… 
 
Or their races. The Bible uses the word family instead of race. A family is what you generate, as I say, two Japanese married will produce a Japanese child which we might call the Yellow and not the Caucasian race. Two Caucasians or whites will produce a white. Two blacks will produce a black. But it was after their families, after their races, in their nations. Now the sons of Ham and he begins to give them and I won't go into those genealogies now. But there were a good many there.

Now, at the time of the flood, now let's see. Man going the way He chose, wanted to amalgamate and integrate the races. Now, at the time of the flood, again. Noah was righteous in his generationS, plural. Not his generation. Meaning in his ancestry. Noah, in Genesis 6, in a minute I'll have it here. Let's read this again.

Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations… 
 
He wasn't perfect in himself or spiritually or anything of that kind. He was only perfect in generations or in his ancestry. He was the same strain that he had been. And if you want to check it all the way through, and his ancestry on down, you'll find Noah was white. Noah's wife was white. Now apparently, he was the only man left that was pure white. He had not mixed the strain. The family had remained intact, as God had decreed that it should.

But the others were not. They had intermarried and interracial, brought racial trouble they had racial violence and other violence in those days and we're back to the same things today. As it was in the days of Noah, so it is today and that's exactly where we are today.


Alright. Abraham was of the family of Noah. And Abraham was white. God called Abraham and told him to leave the family where he was and people of all of his race, his family, or his color or whatever you want to call it and go to a land where he would show him. In that land were people poaching there that didn't belong there and God had never given it to them and God intended to give him that land, because it is the geographical center of the Earth, and it's marvelous for climate. And once again, when God restores it like it used to be, it'll be a land of milk and honey, which it is not exactly today. But it's marvelous what has happened to it since the Israelis went back there. And the part that they have is rich in agriculture already. Whereas other parts that are occupied by Arabs are not. But Abraham went to a land that God showed him and it was a Promised Land that God was going to promise to him. Now God said to Abraham in that land, that he would give it to his children forever. That is the Promised Land but at that time, there were the Canaanites there. And they were black not white. Alright. Abraham finally had a son of his own through Sarah and the time came to select a wife for Abraham's son. So he sent this older servant, which was really, the manager of all of his properties and over all his other servants, of which he had many, he sent him to his own family, where his family lived, to select a wife for Isaac. "Isaac must not," he said. 
 
Because Of the wrong religion?

Now some people will say that when Ezra and Nehemiah cause people, who had intermarried with another race, to send their wives and even the children born back away from them, and divorce them, and put them away, they said, yeah but that was because of their wrong religion. Oh no, it wasn't. Abraham sent over to his kindred, to his color, but they were of a different religion. So a little later, you will find, Abraham's grandson, Jacob, who had worked for Laban for a long time you know, and when he left Laban, his wife Rachel stole the idols from her father Laban and carried those little idols with her. And Laban came out to find them. They were his gods. So they were worshipping a different god over there. But Abraham sent to get someone of that race, of that color, of that family, for a wife for Isaac, even though they were of a different religion. But I think they got God's religion, once Rebecca came over. She got God's religion through Abraham and through Isaac. So you can say that the only reason for not marrying another race is because it means that you'll be going into a different religion. That's not the reason. Rachel was of a different religion than knowing God and she stole those gods when they fled.

Now the ancient nation Israel is called the family of Israel. There were a family and they were of that race. I have traced it down and I find that God kept that family pretty well intact all the way down through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and down into the Children of Israel. And they didn't mix with the Egyptians. They were in a country of their own, geographically segregated in the land of Goshen and not with the rest of Israel. And they were making bricks and things that were carried over to the Egyptian part of the land and not the same at all.

Herb then discusses the millennium where everyone will be segregated according to skin color, though be assured that God does NOT discriminate! 

Now, that's what it will be like in the millennium when God is ruling. Now what of us in the Church? In the church, God said that in Abraham would all the families, all the races of the Earth will be blessed in Christ. One race has just as much chance and just as much blessing in Christ as any other. Race is only a matter of generation, of begetting children. And that's why the marriage is so important. God is not the author of discrimination. We should love one another and in God's Church, we've been trying to do that. But we find this racial prejudice, which gets down to hatred if you don't squelch it before it gets that far. It keeps cropping up every once in a while. I'm sorry. I don't want to have to get back to it like I did about fifteen years ago or twenty. But I see that it's coming out again and we're going to have to get back to it.

The millennium will be a place where skin color will not matter nor will sex. Sex was that thing that the unconverted masses did before the kingdom of God hit the earth. It was your duty then to raise children of the same skin color because God wanted the races kept separate.

Now in the resurrection and in the World Tomorrow, how many of us will be black and how many of us will be white, brethren? And how many will be yellow? If we're in the Kingdom of God, not one of us will be any one of those. Our faces will shine as bright as the sun. What's the color of the sun? That'll be the color of your faces and your skin. Well maybe not your whole body, but there isn't going to be any matter of color at all. You know why? 
 
What about sex in the millennium? There won't be any. There won't be men, there won't be women. We won't have sex. We'll be as the angels in heaven, so said Jesus Christ. Sex is a matter now of generations but it has nothing to do with coming to God through Christ and gaining Eternal life and getting into the Kingdom of God. It has to do with the raising of children and God wanted the races kept separate.

If we want to keep our stock "pure breed" then we cannot have sex with inferior breeds.

Now we have different color of roses. We have different variety in a lot of things. We have different variety of horses, different varieties of cows, different varieties of dogs. And different varieties can interbreed. But if you're a stock raiser and you're raising stock for display, to win a prize, at a stock show, you're not going to mix the breeds. It'll be a thoroughbred or a pure blood or whatever you want to call it. And that's the way it ought to be with us. 

Herbert then claims that when you integrate, you get dangerously close to interracial marriage. 

Race is only something that has nothing to do with your salvation. It has only to do with reproduction. Now that's why when you integrate, you get in danger of interracial marriage. We have integration at Ambassador College here. And this college was going so far over into Satan's way, that we had an interracial marriage here. I don't know was it, one year ago or three years ago? Something like that. Now one man who was one of our leading ministers, endorsed it and was going to perform that wedding. I understand he backed out at the last minute. And the couple, of course it was a black man and a white woman, they went over to Las Vegas and got married over there.

Herbert wants you to know that he always thought about the black man. It has always done everything it could for blacks in the church. We accept you as members but don't DARE to intermarry any of the white folk, because that is your inclination!

God is not in favor of interracial marriage. God is not in favor of discrimination either. But marriage and the reproduction of children is another thing altogether. Now this church has done everything it could for the black people. We've tried to have no discrimination of any kind. You know how the college in Bricketwood actually got started? I went over there in 1969. We'd outgrown the office. We had to get a bigger office in London. And at the time, I had the idea, because we had not gone to integration in the college. But we wanted to do what we could for our black people. Because they were in the church but we were not accepting them in the college just because we were afraid it would lead to interracial marriage. But they were accepted in the church. And one thing I wanted was an office that would be on the kind of a property where we could also have a school for black men since we could not accept them at Ambassador College. Because I thought a lot about them. And I didn't want to discriminate and I wanted to give them every opportunity that the white man had, and that is as ministers. And we were only thinking of men only at that time because we were only thinking of a school for ministers. Actually what we found, we ran across the place that we did, and when we saw that, we said, "well God wants a whole, liberal arts college over here. He led us to a property for an entire big college. Not just a little small place. We found a little place that would have taken of the kind of the little school. I thought about only having thirty five students. And we found a small place that would have taken care of that. The office and 35 students and a school. It led to an entire college. But that's what we had in mind at the time. 
 
Geographical Segregation:

Now in the millennium, there's going to be one pure language so that all nations can worship God but they are going to be segregated geographically in their own different places. Now if you turn to Nehemiah 13: 
 
Nehemiah 13:23-26 In those days also saw I Jews that had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab: (24) And their children spake half in the speech of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews' language, but according to the language of each people. (25) And I contended with them, [and God had divided them and divided their language in order to divide the nations, geographically] and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves. (26) Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? Yet among many nations was there no king like him, who was beloved of his God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did outlandish women cause to sin. 

Those wicked wily women! They are always at fault, even though the men couldn't keep their robes closed. Just like Adam standing next to Eve when she had him the apple and he takes it, but it's her fault. 

Well anyway, Ezra and Nehemiah just simply caused them to divorce those wives and to send them away. And they were the ministers of God and that is the way of God. Now there is a great deal more to this. I only wanted to give you just sort of a foundation and the background today. But we're going to have to go into this. This church still has a little leaven to clean up and get out of our house. But we've been getting it out and we're going to continue getting it out. And we're going to continue right along to now. So that's as much as I'm going to take time for today. But I'm going to write some more on this God willing.

Many COG leaders today want to make excuses for this kind of crap and claim it was just Herbert speaking with the understanding he grew up with and he did not really mean it like we perceive it today.

If that were true then why over the last several decades have so many African Americans, Hispanics, Asians, and other people of color in the church spoken up about what they endured in the church? Why have books been written about it if it never happened? 

The Church of God movement is broken and has always been broken. There were no "glory days" of the past but the wreckage of hurt and injured people by a church that claimed it was exemplifying 1st-century Christianity.