Dennis reapplies for Ministry in The Deplored Church of God

 Having  been a pastor in WCG, I found the Apostle David C. Pack's MAT (Ministerial Aptitude Test) to be more than offensive and telling about just who Dave Pack thinks he is in all things God and Christ.  Reproduced here for entertainment purposes only.  Since Mr. Pack has retreated into the Castle after his miserable failure at discerning the intent of the Book of Haggai and who is who, we can only expect to hear from him again when he picks up where he left off with new and expansive elements of the Prophecy Concerning Dave Pack never before understood, though Dave at one point did assure all "God's word is crystal clear!"  Clear as mud evidently.

The world of Church of God watchers will not be kind to any man who sells his soul answering this ridiculous test for ministerial position in the Deplored Church of God. 

I thought I'd apply anyway and see how it goes........Can't let Dave disappear  totally after "the screw up."

Apostle Dave demands in SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT #22 FRIDAY, JULY 12, 2013 

An Open Letter to All Splinter Ministers

.....read the following questions slowly, carefully and prayerfully. They are the biggest way that the ministry should “consider their ways.” Consider writing out the answers:

(1) Retirement—Mr. Armstrong taught that retirement is not an option for a true minister.

• Did you retire? If so, when, and why did you think yourself an exception?
• Retire?  What's that?  Can't retire on air.

(2) Non-Career—Mr. Armstrong taught that “going non-career” is not an option for a true minister.

• Did you do this? If so, why did you think yourself an exception?
• No, I was terminated when my congregation of 450 got wittled down by the Tkaches to 100.  HQ told me it was not cost effective to keep me.  I was done anyway but true to form stayed too long because I cared for the local congregation even though my heart was long past being in it.

(3) Established Doctrine and Tradition

• In what doctrines or traditions do you believe Mr. Armstrong “got it wrong”? (Include all areas—bespecific.)
• Probably most

(4) Did you actively resist false doctrine in your ministry?—or give safe sermons where you disagreed? (Be specific.)

• During the liberal years of the 1970s?
• There was no such thing as a safe sermon in the 70's.  I sat in the backseat of a Regional Director's car listening to the two guys in the front seat categorize all the ministers in the region into Pro HWA/Pro GTA or Contrary.  I heard a lot of things in the 70's.  I was in my naive and idealistic 20's.  Never before revealed:   As you know, I was the Regional Director in Chicago's assistant.  He asked me several times what I thought I of your coming back into the ministry in Chicago.  I said..."fine I guess."  
• In the WCG in the late 1980s and early 90s?
• I laid low in the 80's and 90's reading and beginning to regret I ever heard of the WCG
• In your splinter or splinters?
• I don't do splinters or slivers.  I was not interested in trading HWA/GTA/Tkach drama for Flurry, Pac..oops, Weinland and countless others drama

(5) On each doctrine where you came to agree with God’s enemies—either Joe Tkach, those who assisted his destruction or your splinter leader—why did you agree?

I don't recall who or what I agreed with much.  It was all kind of a blur.  I guess I agreed in part with God's enemies because I did not know they were the enemies of God and I agreed in part.  Generally in life I tend to find myself agreeing with those I agree with and would not tend to think of them as enemies of God at the time.  Is that strange?

(6) Why should you still be considered for the ministry in God’s Church?

I shouldn't but am just messing with ya...

• Why should God’s flock ever again be entrusted to your care?
• Actually they shouldn't.  I am not trust able and would probably spend way too much time recommending they read outside the box etc.  
• Are you prepared to re-win brethren’s trust, including brethren now here whom you will likely also pastor? What about re-winning the trust of Headquarters?
• No and no....

(7) Did you actively pursue where God’s Truth, Church, Work, College and Government were found?

Oh yes sir!  Once... but I simply could not find the energy to leap and jump all over split, splinter, schism and sliverdom.  

• If not, why not? Be specific.
• I could not keep my anxiety under control and when I got depressed, HQ made fun of me and attributed other motives to my sadness and anxiety.
• If so, how hard? Be specific.
• Not hard at all....I feel funny saying that.  Could you reword that?

(8) Have you read or viewed any of our Splinter Explanation Packet material?

No, I don't do packets or booklets anymore.  I do courses and books at reputable institutions and from credible authors with actual credentials to inform me.

• What items? Ÿ Did you at any time hear my “30 Reasons” sermons of 1993 and 1994? (Parts 1, 2 or 3?)
• No, I hate numbered sermons.  12 Ways to Have a Happy Marriage, to me, were what you heard just before divorce.

(9) Do you now believe again that Christ works solely through one unified organization?

Pfffft.....No, of course not.  I think Jesus , got blindsided by God not intervening for him to route the Romans and when he said, "My God, My God..why hast thou forsaken me?"  he wasn't kidding.  Not sure he had one unified organization in mind but that's an oxymoron anyway.  The early NT church was hardly one unified organization.  Did you ever go to Bible school?

(10) In light of government(s) you followed, how do you see God’s government today?

Tyrannical, silly  and addled.

(11) Have you returned to believing that Mr. Armstrong was the final “Elijah”?—and Zerubbabel?

Returned?  I never believed it to begin with.  I thought, "well that's nice if that's what he wants to believe as long as it doesn't hurt anyone."  It was kinda like the sermon I heard HWA give on Satan and those darn trees where he said dinosaurs , of Satan's world of course, could not reproduce as neither could Satan.  Same week I saw the dino egg edition of National Geographic on his waiting room table.  I just figured he was out of touch and would catch up someday. 

(12) Have you returned to believing that truth only enters the Church through apostles as Mr. Armstrong said so often?

Returned? Not really.  That concept always bothered me from the start.  Truth only from apostles tends to be fluid and subject to change depending on the need and pressure put on the Apostles to grow up. 

(13) Do you believe I Corinthians 12:18 applies to you with no qualifications added?

Hold on.  Let me go find my Bible.   Brb............................um, no.  I think Paul wrote that to keep everyone in place as he saw fit with himself obviously, called from the womb as he noted, on top.  I have never seen a Church of God 'fitly framed" and if this is God's idea of "all one body we...", well......never mind. 

(14) Do you believe there can be exceptions to I Corinthians 1:10 and 13—regarding members or ministers in the Church?

Oh for Pete's sake...sorry.   Yes of course. I have never in my life nor has any Church history seen any three people all agree and speak the same thing.  That's robot talk!   In my view, Paul meant,  "We must all speak the same thing as I speak it."  I get the same feeling with why you seem to like this scripture.  Anyway, it's not possible in reality.  

(15) Are you willing to temporarily or permanently become an associate pastor?

No.  I was a very important minister with overarching and incredible responsibilities.  I grew churches larger and faster than all before me and dazzled with sermons before thousands.  I can't go backwards.  Besides.....you didn't handle that all that well either as I recall.

(16) Are you willing to be excluded from the ministry until you re qualify?

Absolutely...thank you sir!

(17) Are you familiar with the new teachings that God has added to His Church on top of what Mr. Armstrong taught?

Wait!  On top of???????  New Teachings??????  WTF...oh sorry.  Evidently not!  

• Which ones?—and do you agree?
• None probably

(18) If your ordination(s) is(are) invalid, are you interested in being re-trained for Christ’s true ministry?

Oh it's valid alright!  Signed by HWA, GTA and David Antion.  It's locked in decoupage lacquer forever!  I don't do retraining very well.  I doubt I'd do "training" of any kind in religion well at the moment.  Do you retrain well?

(19) Do you believe ministers should be able to voice opinions to others about:

• Where Headquarters is “wrong”?
• I hope to tell ya!
• What Mr. Armstrong taught/said/did “wrong”?
• Of course
• What Mr. Pack teaches/says/does “wrong”?
• You're making this shit up aren't you?
• Where your boss is “wrong” or harsh, etc.?
• If it hurts others , is stupid or dangerous
• Where you disagree doctrinally?
• Duh...I'd not do well teaching something I thought was BS

(20) Do you consider yourself as having been (rate yourself from 5 being best to 0 being worst):

• Weak
• 10
• Cowardly
• 30
• Slothful
• 20
• Covetous
• 45 I believe in simple living and leaving a small footprint
• Confused
• 0  Very...the whole WCG experienced confused naive and idealistic me
• Compromising
• 12 but at times no doubt when sorting things out
• Foolish
• 0  Oh man yeah!   Is this just confined to Church stuff?  
• Political (And did you ever “run for office” in a splinter?)
• 100   I ran FROM splinters and I still don't vote much on anything
• Heretical
• 0  I guess it's my nature
• Deceitful
• Ehhh....depends on the topic I suppose.  3 depending.  But I am still not a fan of Jeremiah 17:9 as totally the way folk are.
• Easily deceived
• 0 Evidently going back to age 14
• Betrayed your calling
• 100  Not any more....

(21) Why did you lose the ability to “discern good from evil” (Heb. 5:13-14)?—and for so long?

I actually gained in my ability to discern good from evil as the COGs rose from the ashes. 

(22)    What do you consider your ministerial rank to be?  Evangelist, Ÿ Pastor, Ÿ Preaching Elder, Ÿ Local Elder ,Ÿ Local Church Elder, Ÿ “Elder” Ÿ Ministerial Assistant

HUMAN not in need of ministerial rank.  It was confusing enough to be a Local Elder in 1973, a Preaching Elder in 1974 and then going on to pastor 14 churches in 5 states but getting stuck at PE.  Strange to me  but in 1972 I was told by someone who was on the manpower thingy that after my name came up, "for you Dennis, the sky is the limit."  I thought that a strange comment even at 22 years old.  At any rate, there were low clouds for me mostly after 1975.  I knew I was in rank trouble when GTA hauled me up to his office one fine day to ask "why do you hate me?"   He had screamed his head off in a sermon at someone in the audience at church to leave if they didn't like it here and low and behold...Monday..I found out to my shock, it was ME he was yelling at in the audience.  LOL   In hind site I think he may have been nervous I was dating the same girls he was. Ÿ 

(23) Are you prepared to dedicate the rest of your life to serving God’s flock and fixing completely the horrific mess you helped cause in so many lives?

If it stops you I will if you will

(24) In light of how you once saw Mr. Armstrong, do you still recognize the fruits of a true apostle when you see one?

Fruits of a true Apostle is a dicey concept.  Is the kind, compassionate and educated current Pope a true Apostle?  Do you mean Apostle by the numbers so called?    I think NO here. 

• If you say yes, why did you follow Joe Tkach until he destroyed everything?
• It was a fascinating study in stupid.  I couldn't help it for a time. 

(25) Describe your spiritual condition today. (Also, rate your temperature from 0-10, with 10 the highest.)

 I am hopeful I am some form of consciousness stuck in a limited 5 sensed carbon based wetsuit, but I am not sure as how can one prove such a thing.  98.6

(26) What 5 biggest lessons did you learn from and since the apostasy? (In order of importance.)

Trust no Elijahs

Trust no Chicago thugs

Trust no Witnesses

Trust no Zerrubabels

Trust no Joshuas

(27) How many times did you fast for 24 hours (or more) before answering these questions?

None.  Just had breakfast

(28) How many times have you prayed over Psalm 51 on your knees?

None..I burned out on doing that long ago.

(29) Having now long abandoned many doctrines you said you would never leave, how would you convince Headquarters that this time you “mean it” if you intend to now “hold fast” (Rev. 3:11)?

I would answer all these questions in ways that I know would please you.  I would be all things to all men that by any means I could get back into a paying ministerial position and maybe a car.  I would beg you to believe what you need to believe about me.  I'd sell my soul to the devil.  To the Apostle , I'd kiss the apostle's ring.  To the Board of Agreers, I'd tell funny stories and say  "yes, sure fine whatever you want," to them .  

(30) What have been your pastoral actions during the troubles of recent weeks and months?

I write a bit about it....

(31) Are you prepared to spend a full year (or more) catching up with all you must unlearn, relearn, and learn new?

Hell no!  Are you willing to spend a full year or more reading some books on theology, Bible difficulties and history I'd have for you?   I think not!

(32) What personal responsibility do you feel for the deplorable condition into which God’s people have sunk?

None.  I have left that to the ministry and yourself

(33) How would you prove that you are still Spirit-led?—or were ever Spirit-led?

I can't.  I probably was good intention lead but not ever "spirit-led"  If any of this was spirit led, I'd like to have a chat with Jesus.

(34) What date did you leave the WCG, and why did you remain beyond May 1995, if this is the case?

Sometime in '98.   I won the Biblical Archaeology Magazine essay contest on "We have the money. Why should we send you to dig in Israel?"  I got HQ to give me a few bucks for the trip and the month digging at Megiddo and didn't want to give up the trip  and experience of my lifetime which was free.  Depression was at it's greatest from 90 to 98 which was then replaced by anxiety from '99 + depending.  I was a paramedic for that time as a "hobby" but screwed up and had to keep moving. 

(35) What did you do after reading the article “God’s People Back Together—SOON!”?

Threw up....

In due course, you will be asked to fill out a questionnaire that looks very similar to this list.

Are there hidden and more difficult questions you won't publish now?

*No answers that are blank, “I’m not sure” or short responses will then be permitted.

Now you sound like the SAT proctor

*All wives should answer the questions, including every point applicable. (Some are obviously to be skipped.)

Don't tell me who should do what.....

*Aware of recent history, and the lies and deceit of so many men and leaders, DO NOT LIE TO YOURSELF!

Oh come on...you lied to everyone about yourself and Mr. Haggai.  I can lie to myself if needed 

*You are encouraged not to discuss or in any way share your answers with anyone other than God and your spouse.

Head slap....They why did I just share them with YOU!  God already knew the answers before I wrote them and I am single.  Can I share with my Shih Tzu?   

Anyway....I do hope you will consider me for a high position in the Deployed Church of God.  I have been in therapeutic massage for 15 years now and it would be nice not to have to physically work in a low light room with soft relaxing music and really nice folk who are exhausted , stressed or hurting.  Standing eight hours a day with 6-7 clients ten minutes apart with only my thoughts is tough. I want to wear a suit again, drive a nice car, have a restaurant expense account as long as I say the world "church" during the meal and respect from those who merely pray , obey, pay and stay.  I am tired of reading books as they take time and effort and switching back to booklets written by just two or three who know is much easier.  Most of all I miss sitting in a coma for Ministerial Refresher Programs.   The luncheons were good however. 

Let me know soon!  I'd be happy to drive to Wadsworth to chat and answer any questions you might have....

Dennis surmises: "In Jesus Name no doubt"

Anonymous writes:

"Herbert W Armstrong was human man, is dead, and his bones are all that is left. He was a sinner as you are, he did not always do things the way he later saw that he should have, yet when you are dead Dennis C Diehl you will be forgotten far FAR sooner than this man who was used by God to bring truth from the Bible back into focus.

I used to water plants in solid Gold planters in HWA's office

I ate at HWA's table with these, but when I said I wanted one because my parents paid for them, HWA said "No".

I challenge you to prove that Herbert W Armstrong EVER personally owned the extremely expensive items you claim he owned as items that he owned.

You mean like Bill Clinton saying it depends on what the word "is" is?

You are a "punk assed charlatan" you are laughable with your "acute revulsion to religion syndrome".

I only read your blog as a result of somebody recommending a story dealing with Steve Andrews CoGaic.

I am dumber than a rock already, but once I saw your deplorable blog I felt even dumber.

Fortunately I have the option to NEVER pay you attention again, that is unless you take me up on the challenge I issued, I don't thiMk you will because you have no valid basis for doing so.

HWA might burn up and become ashes under your feet one day (I doubt it), but he even in death for right now is far FAR a better person than you.

My advice stop blogging or drink a good glass of anti freeze!"

Thank you for your kind words and observations.  First of all, it is not my blog but that is a common assumption.  I am merely a guest writer, one of one as far as I can tell.  I'm sorry my views , and they are merely mine, made you dumber than you already feel you are.  Bummer.  You did have the original option to never pay attention to me in the first place.  I would find it  somewhat creepy to find anyone as ashes under my feet and I have no personal need to stand in them.  I'm not a bad guy once you get to know me.  I tend to think outside the boxes folk like yourself confine yourself to. I have a really nice dog and miss both my parents who passed away this year at the age of 97. Beaver Cleaver and I have a lot in common. I am a very tolerant and forgiving kind of guy.  In hind site I found WCG appealing because I grew up visiting my brother in a state mental institution because he was born premature and the Oxygen they poured on him destroyed his eyes and ear bones.  In the day they put the physically handicapped with the mentally unstable.  I guess I thought the "Wonderful World Tomorrow" would fix that and  if I could help, I surely wanted to. 

Oh yes, I am a sinner. No problem with that observation here...

My "revulsion" to religion is not the same as my desire for a genuine spirituality.  I guess I got the "revulsion" from reading books.  Ever hear of them?

As far as HWA "owning" those treasures posted by the blog owner, I have sat at the table with HWA while served from them or looking and talking about them as they were explained by HWA.  The blog owner would know even more about your question than I as he worked regularly in the home of HWA as well as around him to a much greater degree.  He helped clean out GTA's home when Ted went to Texas and started his own church I believe. 

PS  I don't begrudge a busy man his needful suits.  Personally, whoever invented tying a knot around your windpipe to look nice needs counseling. 

I heard HWA say often "I own nothing but a few suits."  I was 18 when I first heard that and thought that was a bit dishonest of him or at least missing the point.  He had a million dollar home on Orange Grove Blvd to live in without payments.  He could fly all over the world without any personal expense.  He could buy anything he wanted because he asked for church monies to put in his wallet. He ate where he wanted and others paid the bill I assume.  His non possessions were available to him to enjoy 24/7.  I guess that's not my idea of "only owning a few nice suits."  He lived in his own Garden of Eden without expense personally as far as I could tell.  Having a budget like normal folk was not a concern to him who "just owned a couple of nice suits."

 

Anyway, thanks for the kind words.   It fascinates me how true believer types, of which I assume you are one, can become so vindictive and hate filled when their human leaders are less than honest about their humble estate in life.  Personally I prefer the obvious loving kindness and genuine compassion the current Pope seems to have for all people.  I know you think he is just pretending so he can rule the world for Satan, but I think he's a genuine human being.  While not Catholic, when I think of just what would Jesus do, I'd not think of either you or Herbert W. Armstrong.  

I'll pass on the anti-freeze.  I'm from NY and I was born with it in my veins.

Thank you again for sharing

Nobody special

Dennis muses: 2014...

Another Year of the Sheep People?

I believe those who have had the Church of God experience in all its forms are quite familiar with  the Biblical analogy of humans being the sheep of God's pasture and followers and subjects being the sheep to Kings, priests and the NT ministry.  It was an obvious analogy in the day but it is far past time to put this one to rest.  Jesus himself was said to be like the sheep who would not even speak up to his accusers.  Psalm 23 makes sheep of all in life under the Great Shepherd.  It is an analogy that leaves the sheep helpless and need of endless guidance and herding to hold them all together.  

I can't speak for others, but I am no sheep.  It took a few decades but I am just me now and that is enough.  I wonder what 2014 will bring for the sheep of the Splinter Folds?  How much more can these folk block out of their minds and how many excuses more can they make for the theological antics, and they are antics, of those such as a Dave Pack who, as a genuinely  untrained shepherd of aberrant theology , lead his flock terribly close if not over the cliff with his very strange and weird ideas about himself.  Lest we forget...

  "I want to make a statement about...me...now, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it,  (We did) don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying?(Yes we do..and you added new and expansive elements never before understood related to the timing stuff.  You ABCD'd and X Y and Z'd us) Listen to  to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me.  Do you understand what I'm saying brethren?  (We can hope-but evidently not) Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...  (We did) But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."  (And that's the problem)

David C. Pack

Anyway, this does not have to be long.  The question is just how much ridiculous theology and claims for authority to make them, will be tolerated?  How many more mental, emotional and physical resources of the sheep, who think being a sheep is a good thing, will we see exploited in 2014 in the ongoing drama of the Wild World of God Churches?  Spring promises to bring wounded Dave Pack back out into the limelight as the sheep were so dumb as to think his Haggai prophecy was about last Fall.  It is about this Spring!  Sheesh, anyone with new and expansive elements never before understood that God himself has now revealed knows that!  Will Dave end up telling the sheep, as Ron Weinland did when he fell on his face theologically, "I never said it was literally true!  It's spiiiiiiritual!" (you dumb sheep)?  We'll see.  He said "The Prophecy is very much still on..", so Spring Holyday season is not going to be pretty!

God made me too....

I guess by nature I'm a wolf.  I can't help it.  I was a wolf child when Presbyterian questioning the Westminister Confession of Faith.  I recall in high school geometry class the teacher putting a 15 step proof off something on the board.  I raised my hand and said if point 1 leads to point 2 and such and such is a given as it was  according to the book, then the point is already proven in 2 steps.  She looked at the board and said.."you're right, the book is wrong."  Yay!  I ended up questioning everything I ever joined.  I learned that one is not told everything at 22 needed to make lifetime commitements to.  I went from thinking Garner Ted Armstrong was about the smartest Bible guy in the world to stuck in the 70's and not as smart as I thought he was.  Listening to his sermons towards the end of his life was painful. He was stuck.  He stopped questioning and began to just repeat old errors and memes of the WCG.  I guess he thought that what used to work so well would still work.  It didn't work.

Rod Meredith never stepped outside the box he taught in.  I thought he knew all about the Gospels because, after all, he was the expert on "the Harmony of the Gospels."  I could tie him in a theological knot these days I believe.  I know I could cut Dave Pack down to theological size but he won't leave the Castle and you can't get in unless you pass through the  holy filters successfully.  All these men are mere Bible readers and proof texters at best..which is not a compliment.  Dave is the master of all prooftexting now that Ron Weinland is off the circuit for a time, times and half a time.  Dave can make more scriptures mean what they never could mean or ever meant than any man I know.  

Wolves gotta eat too

Anyway,  Wolves are beautiful, fearless, necessary and the origin of all dogs on the planet.  Chewie, my  Wookie-Like Shih Tzu came from Wolfdom but is a bit removed from it all  

Chewie the Wolf in Shih Tzu Clothing.
 Personally...I'm more this kind of wolf

So let me just conclude by saying, in these days and times, being a sheep is not a good thing.  It implies blindness and a compliance that comes when one feels they "should" do and believe as told, but not too far under the surface, they have their doubts.  Sheepness can keep one in the wrong place, at the wrong time, for way too long, for all the wrong reasons with nothing but wrong outcomes in store for the one who insists that being a sheep in some  theologically challenged nutcase's fold is a good thing.  

So consider you who lurk here.. What's 2014 going to be for you and others who believe being a sheep in a theological setting run by one or at best,  very few shepherds is a good thing?

This?

or...

This?

The very best for all in this coming year.  We only get older if we are lucky.