Dennis On: Jesus' Birth Narratives, Depends Who You Ask

Jesus' Birth Narratives

Depends Who You Ask

Answers to Biblical questions are rather relative to the background and the perspectives of the one asked the question. There are answers of course. Often, many different answers given to the same questions. Obviously, a priest may answer much differently than a Baptist minister and a Lutheran pastor differently from an Adventist. A closed mind will answer differently from an open one. Many of the answers that one would hear are listed above. These are questions that have no easy answer along denominational lines. These are questions that ask not so much what does the story mean, but rather, why does it contradict what is said over in another gospel? Why is this here and nowhere else? How can this be in our real world of time and space? These are questions that usually leave the minister or priest wishing he had never gone to seminary and was not sitting at his desk with YOU knowing enough about the book to ask the question in the first place.

 An apologist will talk of the contradictions in as supplemental and not contradictory, but that is what they have to say because the book has to be flawless and perfectly accurate word of God. It would never do to think the accounts are written by people who had human perspectives, made mistakes in transmission of the alleged facts and even a few political reasons for tweeking the story.

There are more serious answers to these questions as well. Some might be that the story is Midrash or Pesher which are terms that few in the pews and far too often in the pulpit have ever heard. Simply put, it is a way to mine the scriptures of the past for meaning in the present. The author of Matthew was very good at this. It doesn't mean the proof text was literally pointing to something in the future, but can be used to tell a story in a way that one wants the story to be told and with the meaning it needs to have for the present time. It is what Matthew as doing over and over when he looked back into the Old Testament to find scriptures to tell his and only his story of Jesus. He found scriptures that never meant in reality what he made them to mean, but it was a way to tell his story. Whoever Matthew was, or Luke for that matter, they knew nothing about the real birth circumstances of Jesus.  They only came up with a story, which if snipped from your Bible, still leaves the Gospel intact as if the narrative was never t here.  Well there was a time when it wasn't until it was needed and each contradicts the other.

So let's take a quick look at some of the more obvious contradictions and anomolies in the two accounts of Jesus birth.  We won't examine Paul's view, as he had none other than Jesus was born of a woman of the tribe of David.  Nothing special there.

So picture little Johnny sitting with his pastor, asking the following questions that came to his weak mind when reading the stories of Jesus birth.

Question. Pastor...What difference does it make for Matthew and Luke to show us Jesus family connections from Mary and Joseph back to King David and Adam, when God was his real Father? Aren't geneologies meaningless since Joseph was a step father, and all coming before him would be step ancestors to Jesus. So Jesus can't be connected back to King David as the line breaks between Jesus and Joseph. Right?

Question. Pastor... If the Holy Spirit, which I think you said was a person in the Trinity, begot Mary, isn't the Holy Spirit really Jesus literal father?" Would this not then make God Jesus uncle of sorts, or Jesus his own Father, since they are three in one, coequal and co...oh you understand. This is a mystery isn't it?

Question. Father... Why do I have to call you Father, when Jesus said to call no man "Father" except his?

Question. Pastor... Matthew 1: 17 says that Jacob was Joseph's father, but Luke 3:23 says that Heli was Joseph's father. Was Joseph's father Jacob Heli Rubinstein or something?

Question. Pastor...Why does it always seem that women in the Bible who give birth to important men, like Elizabeth being John the Baptist's mom, are always barren and really old. (Luke 1:7). But then, women who give birth to gods are never barren but always pure virgin, and really young like her relative Mary. Is a savior born from an old barrej woman less credible than one born of a young underage virgin?

Question. Pastor... Why in Luke 1:18-20 does the Angel make the old husband of Elizabeth unable to speak for not believing that he would have a son? Seems like a normal thing not to believe at his age. And yet, in Luke 1: 34 Mary tells the Angel she can't believe that she will have Jesus the King because she doesn't even have a husband. At least Zechariah had an old wife. Yet, the angel doesn't make her mute for not believing him. Do you think the Angel had a quota on how many people a day he could make blind and mute?

Question. Pastor... In the same story, in verse 41, old Elizabeth praises Mary for being the mother of her Lord. How did she find out that Mary was going to give birth to a god? Is that the kind of story you think the family passed on to her prior to Mary coming for a visit? And pastor, do you think it is strange that an old woman who is just now in life having her first son would instinctively praise a young virgin for being pregnant? Just a thought.

Question. Pastor... In that same account in Luke 1:46, "and Mary said, 'My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden,'" sound more like something that Elizabeth would say since she was doing all the talking up to that point? And don't you think it amazing that this bursting into song of Mary is so much the same as the story of Hannah, an old barren woman in I Samuel 1, who gave birth to Samuel? And isn't it interesting that a razor was not to come on Samuel just like Elizabeth's baby John? And how about that part where Hanna can't speak either, just like Elizabeth's husband Zechariah? Oh and how about when Elizabeth said in verse 18, "Let your maidservant find favor in your eyes." Wow, sounds a lot like what Mary just said about herself in Luke. Could it be that Luke is using the Hannah story to tell the Mary and Elizabeth story. And could it be that it was really Elizabeth, the old barren woman, still speaking in Luke and not Mary at all about her joy like the old barren Hannah, but someone later attributed what Elizabeth had to say to Mary? Know what I'm sayin?

Question. Pastor... Why do you think that no other Gospel or really anyone in the New Testament ever mentions this story again? Do you think it is here to be sure that everyone understood John was second to Jesus no matter what anyone else might think?

Question. Ok, these birth stories are great, but I have a lot of questions about them. Are you up for this? Great!

Question. Pastor... Since Matthew and Luke read just as well without the birth stories of Jesus, do you think they might have been added much later to the books? I mean really we don't go to the hospital to see a famous person born and the exciting special birth stories aren't usually written until after the baby grows up and becomes famous right? Like Yassir Arafat always saying he was born in Jerusalem, because that's the great place to be born, but in fact he was born in Cairo. Or like politicians who are born somewhere else, but need to be from a certain place to run for office. Just a thought.

Question. Pastor... Why doesn't Mark know anything about Jesus birth stories?

Question. Pastor... Why , in the Gospel of John , in chapters 7 and 8 is there this big argument of how Jesus is a born of fornication and doesn't know a physical father (8:41) and Jesus tells a story about a woman taken in adultery and forgiven (8:1) which lies right between a big argument over knowing that Jesus is from Galilee and not Bethlehem as the scripture says? (7:41) The we have Jesus exploding and telling them they are all sons of the devil. Wow, seems not everyone knew anything about what Matthew and Luke had to say about Jesus birth!  The guys in John knew wherever he was from, it WASN'T Bethlehem.

Question. Pastor... Why does Matthew say that Isaiah 7:14 predicts the Virgin birth of Jesus when the story of Isaiah has absolutely nothing to do with a virgin giving birth to a son that was really God? "Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled, which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 'Behold a virgin shall be with child and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.'" ( Matthew 1:22-23). Isn't Isaiah talking about a baby born as a sign to Ahab, king of Israel, that some northern invasion back then would not be the end of them? And what's with that same story in Isaiah saying, that the boy baby would eat butter and honey and BEFORE he knew to refuse the evil and choose the good, the bad guy would be beaten? (Isaiah 7:15-16) Does this mean that Jesus did evil too before he was prophecied to do good? What parts of this are prophecy and what parts are just history that has nothing to do with Jesus? And no one ever called him Emmanuel. They called him Jesus. I can see where the Israelites might call him "God with us," meaning "God was with us in the defeat of our enemy," but I can't see it meant the baby of Isaiah was God in the flesh. Any comments?

Question. Pastor... In Matthew 1:1-4 it says that the Wisemen came asking about where Jesus was because they had seen his star in the East. First of all, if they came from Persia, which is East of Jerusalem, how do you see a literal star in the East and then follow it West where it turns south and stops over a house in Bethlehem? I mean if they saw his star in the East, why go West, why not East? Maybe it's just me.

Question. Pastor... In the same place it says Herod seems not to know anything about this Jesus or his star. Could he not see it and if he could, could he not follow it himself? Then it says Herod got together all the helpers on such topics and I wonder, could they not see it either?

Question. Pastor... In reading the story of this star, it also says that it reappeared to the Wise men to continue to show them the way. Was this a star that only they could see and could stop and go until the Wisemen were reading to keep moving?

Question. Pastor...How does a moving star, stop over a specific house?

Question. Pastor...While we are at it, how come Matthew tells us Jesus was born in a house that Mary and Joseph seemed to already own in Bethlehem (Matthew 1:11). I thought they lived in Nazareth and came had to have Jesus in a manger in Bethlehem? You know, no room at the Inn and all. Well, at least that is what Luke 2 says where he doesn't mention the home in Bethlehem, just as Matthew doesn't mention the worldwide tax that brings Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem to begin with from their home in Nazareth. So which is it...home in Bethlehem as Matthew says, or in Nazareth as Luke says and moving from manger to home won't cut it.

Question. Pastor...Matthew 1:12-16 says that an Angel warned Joseph to flee to Egypt from Herod who was going to kill all the babies under two years old to get at Jesus. Wow, lots of questions here! Does this mean that in order for Jesus to die for us, the babies in Bethlehem had to die for Jesus?

Question. Pastor...Do you think Mary, being a typical mother left town in a hurry telling her friends, "I know something you don't know. I wish you and your babies a good Sabbath?" I don't think mothers really think that way.

Question. Pastor...Matthew 1:17-18 fulfills Rachel weeping for her children in Rama, but from what I can tell, again Matthew is making this up. That story in Jeremiah 31:15 has nothing to do with the women weeping for their dead babies. I believe the Jeremiah story took place during the trek into captivity as they passed through Rama, not Bethlehem. Kinda stretching the point isn't it?

Question. Pastor...After Herod dies, the family comes back from Egypt and Matthew says this fulfills Hosea 11:1. But I looked at that, and "Out of Egypt I have called my son," is talking about the exodus story, not Jesus. Is it just me again misunderstanding? How comes Matthew gets to make things mean in the Old Testament what they never meant?

Question. Pastor...In Matthew 1:19-22 an Angel gives the all clear to go back home, to Bethlehem and the house, I assume. But then Joseph finds an even more evil bastard lives there so has another dream to head to Nazareth where it was evidently safer. Did the Angel screw up and send them into harms way and God had to give Joseph a dream to save them from the Angel not knowing what was going on in Judea? Don't they have briefings for Angels for stuff like this?

Question. Pastor...In Matthew 1:23 we see that Matthew says since they went to Nazareth, there is some place that says this fulfills "He shall be called a Nazarene." But no one seems to know where the Bible says that. I know it means "branch" such as in Isaiah 11:1, but again, those are not stories or prophecies about Jesus. So isn't Matthew reaching again? Did Matthew think a Nazarite, was the same as a Nazarene maybe? You know, no razor, no haircuts, no wine. Kinda like Hippie Baptists. But then Jesus wasn't that way either. Oh well. Any thoughts?

Question. Pastor...How come only Matthew mentions Wisemen, wandering stars, killing the babies and fleeing to Egypt when Luke, in his account, mentions none of this. In fact, Luke just says that after eight days Jesus was calmly, well i don't know about calmly, circumcised and then Mary did the 40 days of purification after the birth while meeting Simeon and Anna who blessed Jesus in the Temple, and then calmly walked back home to Nazareth. No run for your life from Herod story here, and right where you 'd expect it. Did Luke never hear about Matthew's "thus it was fulfilleds," and simply have the family go back home to Nazareth? Can't both be true, right?

Question. Pastor...As long as I am at it, can you tell me why the Apostle Paul only knows that Jesus was born of a woman in Galatians 4:4. Nothing special really. Did Paul not know that Jesus, Mary and Joseph had all these wonderful birth adventures? Maybe he didn't care.

Question. Pastor...I guess what I am asking here is how come history knows of no tax and certainly no tax where all had to leave home and move around the empire to be taxed in that way for Luke to get Mary and Joseph down to Bethlehem? I won't even ask if you knew Cyrenius, depending on how you spell it, was not Governor of Syria until ten years later than the events of Herod in Matthew. Seems like Luke may have not gotten the history right here.

Question. Pastor...Do you think it was responsible and necessary for Joseph, who seems to already had the property in Bethlehem,  to take a very pregnant Mary on a hundred mile donkey ride through the wilderness of Judea? Was that necessary. And if he had a house there, why did they not live there to begin with. Well actually Matthew said they did, but in Luke it says no. I'm confused.

Question. Pastor...Why would all the Angels and Heavenly hosts go out and sing this "glory to God in the highest and peace on earth, goodwill to men," to a few shepherds in the field. How about a bigger audience, like Jerusalem or at least the whole town of Bethlehem?

Question. Pastor...How come Luke says Mary kept all these wonderful things and pondered them in her heart, and yet in Mark, she and Jesus brothers come down to Jerusalem to take Jesus home as an adult because they thought he was insane? (Mark 3:21). Did Mary forget all the things that the Angels had said and all the miracles of Matthew and Luke at Jesus birth? And why was this one lone account in Mark edited out of Matthew and Luke. Was it embarassing? It seems Mary knew Jesus was special at least to age 12 (Luke 2:51) when he wandered and was found debating in the temple. Hey, and what's with that? It even says his parents "sought him sorrowing," so they were pretty afraid for him. Did Jesus not think to honor his parents with telling them he was at the temple and not to worry? Or did he just think they'd say "no you can't go," and he'd have to not obey them and break another commandment?

"Excuse me?  What do you mean I'm not welcome in the kids group any longer?  Hey, where you going?   You're going to have a talk with my parents about what?  

Oh well...Merry Christmass.   

Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

Science...Falsely Called "Falsely So Called"

Science...Falsely Called "Falsely So Called"

 

We all have our stories of how we got here and who we are in the universe. Most stories told by every culture point out the unique origins of that culture, like as not, springing directly from that particular cave or mountain in distant and mysterious times in the past. When the National Geographic Genographic research team gently informed aboriginal Australians of their African origins, according to the DNA evidence, the Elders reacted with a simple "no, we originated here and maybe they came from us." Comforting and upholding of ancient aboriginal beliefs, but not scientifically true. You could feel the tension this new information brought into the cultural beliefs that for so long had encouraged and sustained them. I doubt they will change their understanding of themselves with this bit of scientific information.

 

A similar reaction occurred when the team informed the Navajo in the Americas of their DNA origins linking them to a still existant people in Siberia. The immediate reaction was understandably defensive for Navajo origin stories which had them always living in the Four Corners area of the now United States. In time, I believe they agreed that there was room for both the science and the tradition and, in this case, both maintained their truths on tribal origins. But the science was more literally correct. The uneasiness was palpable.

 

And now the Indigenous People's Council on Biocolonialism, the IPCB is raising even more concerns about the effect this knowledge will have on belief systems of indigenous peoples. For better or worse, "Indigenous peoples have consistently voiced their opposition to this type of research because it breaches cultural values, bioethical standards and human rights law. The IPCB believes the project is being undertaken at the expense of indigenous peoples. Debra Harry, the organization's executive director, writes on their website, "It is quite likely this project will advance new theories of our origins that may contradict our own knowledge of ourselves. There can be no claim as to which understanding is correct, and will result in a clash of knowledge systems. Moreover, there could be serious political implications that result from a so-called "scientific" assertion that indigenous peoples are not "indigenous" to their territories, but instead are recent migrants from some other place. This cuts at the heart of the rights of indigenous peoples, which are based upon our collective, inherent right of self-determination as peoples, under international human rights law." A standard ethical requirement in human research is that the benefits must equal the risk. The IPCB believes that in this type of research, there will be no benefit to indigenous peoples, yet the research creates substantial risk for the individuals and peoples affected."

 

It is this advancement of "new theories of our origins that may contradict our own knowlege of ourselves," that seems to be so difficult for humans to handle. Truth is still true though denied by all. In such defensiveness science always get's called "science so called" and even does in the Bible as "Science, falsely so called" (I Tim. 6:20). This phrase is always used when the science is really not false, but it is threatening to sincerely held beliefs. I don't like someone knocking the nose off my idols any more than the next guy, but that's progress, painful and ever moving forward. The Bible makes fun of learning at times in this nervousness over knowledge when it mocks those who are "ever learning, but never able to come the knowledge of the truth" (II Tim. 3:7), to which I say, at least they keep trying and even Jesus is reported to have said, "seek and ye shall find." Of course he meant spiritually but it's good advice in all endeavors too.

 

 

 

We all have our origin stories that, in time, will probably prove to not be true, at lest not literally. We live in an age where even most Christians realize that the origin stories of mankind in the Garden of Eden, through a first set of parents, Adam and Eve, are not literally true. The problem with believing that is that much of the doctrine in the New Testament requires the story of the first Adam and Eve to be literally true as they lead to such literally true doctrines as the role of women in the church, why women have babies painfully, Jesus being the "Second Adam" and the Doctrine of Original Sin. All of these beliefs and teachings are destroyed by the Genesis story not being literally true.

 

If there was no real Eve, or Adam whose fault this wasn't, who caused all of mankind to fall into original sin, for which we all must repent etc, then there is no need of repenting of that which never happened or of needing a Savior in the way portrayed in the New Testament. Stories and ideas have implications to say the least. Many Christians think it is ok NOT to believe in things being literally true. But that has incredible implications for other things they think they believe but dont' realize the connection and contradictions their position causes theologically. Plainly, if there was no literal Genesis like creation of mankind and fall into sin, and it is shown to not be true by good science, the implications are staggering in how we will have to change our views. Frankly most won't but will, as always, attack the messenger and burn the message, or just burn both.

 

 

 

Actually, a simple cheek swab was all it took for me to find out my own amazing DNA trip out of Africa 70,000 years ago. Perhaps this is done for some reason somewhere, but for the Genome project, this fear is very unfounded. Our genetic history is easily taken from the inside of our mouths. Every cell contains the whole. We are like a hologram where, even if broken, each piece reflects the entire picture when a laser light is passed through it.  Amazing!

 

Simply speaking, it appears that ALL modern humans originated in and then spread out from Africa within the last 100,000 years or less. What a great story to read at Clan meetings! All the "differences" we see in humans are adaptations we made along the way in our trek from there to Europe, Asia and the Americas. Good science gives us good explanations, always subject to new information about this process.  Those humans who migrated north out of Africa had to give up some of their melenin, which darkens the skin to protect it from overexposure to the sun, to get more sun and vitimin D so their bones would not fail them.  That's it.

 

Indeed, we do need to insure the privacy of the individual if they wish it and we need to be sensitive to the process that others go through when they are faced with the implications of such information and research. It takes time to accept change and as stated, many won't, but rather will just become angry and defensive. We see this all the time in the attacks Christian literalists launch into from their pulpits when new knowledge threatens old ideas. I want to be in church the day we confirm life outside of our own solar system, or even in it. The Universe teems with life including intelligent life.  How do I know this?  It just seems so knowing what we do about the insignificance of our little planet in the whole big uni or  multiverse.

 

It's funny, in my previous church affiliation there was a belief that always annoyed me scientifically. It was the belief, now long discredited, that the Lost Tribes of Israel turned up as the powerful nations of Europe, The British Empire and of course, America. I was Dutch, so that clearly put me in the Tribe of Zebulun, according to the theory. I never gave a sermon on this topic! However, my DNA shows I made no such trip through the middle east to become an Israelite and go on into Europe. Rather it shows a long trip through Iran, Iraq the various "Beckastans" on out onto the steppes of Asia and then one big swing into Europe as Cro-Magnon and then into France, Holland and England in much more recent times. That British-Israelism idea is bunk and DNA testing will show it to be so. That particular idea is racist if ever there was one.  The Mormons also have yet to deal with the implications of DNA realities.   Naive Americans are not related to Israelites.  They come from Siberia which, as of this writing, has not been found to be a hangout for the 12 Tribes. I predict that , in time, the Book of Mormon will be claimed to be "Spiritual" and not literally true in order to keep the story going.  

 

Presidential candidates, as intelligent as they are, cringe when asked about their beliefs in God or Evolution. Their answers reflect not so much truth as expediency and take into account what the voters need them to believe.  However,  those who  believe absurdities can lead others into autrocities if need be.

 

So good science is not "science, falsely so called" or "so called science." Yes, it has implications for theologians and Christians but believing something is true never makes it really true and we need to always have a love of discovery. Sorry to say, it is usually the reactions to new information by those most threatened by it that plunges our world into chaos and still get the messenger in trouble for the message. 

 

Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

 

Lil' Joel Meeker Has Concerns About The Internet

For some reason all the COG's have a fear of the Internet.  I wonder why........? 

Anyway, Lil' Joel is warning COGWA members about the Internet.   Too much information is not a good thing and starts to change your thinking.  Is Lil' Joel Meeker concerned that too much information about the COGWA, UCG, COG's and their inherent corruption?  Is there a trend that this information  is starting to weigh on peoples minds?  Is it that people no longer have a blind trust in COG leadership anymore?  I guess for Lil' Joel it's not like the French who basically swept the ground for Lil' Joel as he walked along.  Don't want that WonderKid who graduated from God's College to get his shoes dirty....or do an honest days work.

Lil' Joel writes:

A Prophetic Warning About Your Thinking

Posted by Joel Meeker on November 25, 2011

Is the World Wide Web playing a part in rewiring our brains? What does God say about trends in thinking in the end time?

I recently read a fascinating and troubling book called The Shallows: What the Internet Is Doing to Our Brains, a Pulitzer Prize finalist written by Nicholas Carr. The genesis of the book was the moment the author realized his thinking had changed. He, a man who earns his living by writing, could no longer concentrate on long passages of text; his attention would wander after a page or two.

He realized this change was due to all the time we, in our modern, tech-driven world, now spend on the Internet. On the web, information comes in very short texts, interspersed with embedded video or audio and distracting hyperlinks inviting us to go look at something else before we even finish what we’re reading. (On this blog we try to limit our writing to 800 words—more than that and we risk losing a reader’s attention!)

Rewiring our brains
The use of the Internet is actually reshaping our brains. Literacy, the ability to read, allowed a revolution in human thinking. Information could be transmitted over time and space. Literate people developed the ability to concentrate for long periods of time, to mentally follow complicated lines of reasoning, to contemplate transcendent concepts.

The brain of someone who reads is not shaped exactly like the brain of an illiterate person because our brains develop along the lines of the uses to which they are put.

Heavy Internet use is also reshaping our brains, and research shows that many people are losing the ability to concentrate for longer periods and to think deeply about complex concepts. It’s too much work. Short texts, photos and video are much easier to process and more entertaining.

So what?
For Christians this trend should be alarming. Our God reveals Himself, His plan, the purpose of our existence and His laws for life—all in writing. In fact, they are in lengthy, not always easy-to-read texts. To lose the ability or desire to read and concentrate on what we read is to distance ourselves from God.

Perilous times from wrong thinking
A Bible prophecy for the time just before the return of Jesus Christ states that human thinking will have become shallow and entirely self-absorbed:
“But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power” (2 Timothy 3:1-5).
If and when people lose the ability or desire to think abstractly and to control their thoughts, they will be left only with what they feel, and what they feel will be mostly about themselves, not others and not God. This is prophesied for the time ahead us, and our increasing dependence on the Internet may be hastening that day.

 I’m not suggesting that we stop using the Internet entirely; that’s not a realistic possibility for many of us. But we must be aware of how Internet use is changing our thinking. We must control our use of the Internet and not allow it to control us. And we must discipline ourselves to continue a deep and regular study of the Word of God.

Full aricle is here:  A Prophetic Warning About Your Thinking

Weinland Says: "Laura and I understand that this is part of what we must face..."

Weinerdude, the documented failed prophet of the Church of God Preaching the Kingdom, has finally responded to the lawsuit filled by the US Government against him and his cult for tax fraud.

He says:

This will be my response to the indictment concerning the accusation of using Church funds for personal use (beyond normal income), which in turn is being used to say I did not pay taxes upon those funds.

I’ve rewritten this posting several times, as this entire matter has been rather difficult for me to digest. I have been waiting to find out the full details of the indictment and it has been somewhat unsettling as it simply takes time to receive all the information that it is based upon. Although we have known that an investigation has been ongoing since mid 2008, it has all been rather difficult to understand why.

There really is no basis for this. This investigation that covers several years has been difficult to understand, especially in the light of the fact that we have never at any time received any civil notice from the IRS. There has never been a request for an audit of which we would have fully cooperated, as our desire has always been to do things correctly in filing our taxes. The Church has a great team of lawyers and an investigator who are vigorously working to defend the Church and myself.

As people tend to believe what they will, I’ve decided that a posting is not the forum to address the issues at hand, but to fully use our legal system and the courts to do so.

Weinerdude wants you to know that this is Satan at work attacking the true church and it's Two Witless Witnesses.  If Witless Witnness Laura is such a profound end time prophet why is she so silent?  Is she really drunk on the kool-aide from Weinerdude's sippy cup?  Can she be that stupid that she believes she is one of the two witnesses?

Laura and I understand that this is part of what we must face as part of the work we believe God has given us to do in this end-time. We will continue to do as we have ever since we became part of the ministry of God’s Church back in 1981. That makes over 30 years of serving in the ministry. Indeed, we have always sought to faithfully and zealously serve God and His Church. Our plans have not changed and we will continue as we do now by visiting the many congregations of the Church which are scattered throughout the U.S. and other countries.

Then to justify the funds transfers, he claims that they brought that Swiss Bank account monies back to the States in order to finance his failed 2008 end of the world scenarios.  As we all know first hand, every single thing he said has been an abject failure.  So I guess Weinerdude is admitting that the monies wasted on this fraudulent campaign are truly lost. Poor widows tithe money down the drain for nothing.

False Prophet Weinderdude continues:

This posting also provides me with the opportunity to remind our readers of two important doctrines of the Church. One concerns tithing and government taxation, and the second concerns our teaching of what it means to be a “good citizen” in the country where one lives.

Concerning the first of those two doctrines I have referred, we adhere to a strong belief in tithing and giving of offerings as many other Christian churches and those in Judaism also believe. We deeply believe the instruction of Jesus Christ who said that we should pay to Caesar what is Caesar’s (taxation to be paid to government agencies) and to God what is God’s (tithes and offerings). Members are to be as zealous in being faithful to God in tithing as they are faithful to God in paying their taxes to whatever government is over them.

Concerning the second doctrine to which I have referred, you can read on the Church website what the Church teaches about being a “good citizen” in a country, especially as we draw nearer to the end of the final three and one-half years of this end-time. This is stated in the FAQ section under the “Topics” and is entitled, “Citizenship in a nation.”

As the Church continues to remain faithful to God, God is faithful to lead us and fight our battles for us. Indeed, we look to God and His Son Jesus Christ to guide our way and always deliver us.

Weinerdude has made it clear to his minuscule group of followers that they are to continue to send in money to fiance his cult.  Will he end up in Tuscon when the IRS takes over his cult headquarters and repossesses his home?  Will he start claiming persecution.  Will the time of the end be near?  He seems to think so as he claims we are drawing hear to the end of the final 3 1/2 years.  What a moron!

Apostle Malm: "There is no more grace, no more forgiveness"

The Apostle is expounding on the Book of James today.  It's not a pithy read at all.  Typical Malmism's fill the article demanding that you be a law keeper because salvation only comes through the law.

God’s law is a law which brings about liberty. It delivers us from the chains of sin, from the burdens of sin.

That statement along exposes all that is wrong with Malmism and the rest of the harlot Armstrongite splinter cults.  The law takes precedence just like the "piggie" does in Armstrongism.

Imagine making a mistake and bbq some burgers for a quiet Saturday afternoon.  In Malmism you are damned to the lake of fire for that mortal sin.

If you show no mercy to others, no mercy will be shown to you; by God in the
judgment.  If you break the smallest law you are guilty of breaking the whole law itself.  If you cook a meal on sabbath, have a barbeque ect; you face the same judgment as the homosexual if you do not repent.  For the wages of sin is death.

Since Malm does not keep the entire law, he breaks them all every single day.  Is he damning himself here?  And, why are the COG's so titillated by "homosexuals?"  They seem to be the favorite scapegoat for everything  wrong..

His next comment shows how completely ignorant he is of any of the concepts that are brought out in the new covenant.

This is also the issue of Law and Grace; for if we break the law silfully (sic), their is no more grace, no more forgiveness. 

A great many of us are in danger of damnation and we know it not.  Christ will reject us UNTIL WE REPENT, and if we do not repent we shall be condemned.

Malm would do well to heed the wise words of Martin Luther on sin. "Be a sinner and sin boldly..."

."If you are a preacher of Grace, then preach a true, not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly. For he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here we have to sin. This life in not the dwelling place of righteousness but, as Peter says, we look for a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. . . . Pray boldly-you too are a mighty sinner." (Weimar ed. vol. 2, p. 371; Letters I, "Luther's Works," American Ed., Vol 48. p. 281- 282)

Of course the concept that Luther is trying to get across is totally oblivious to those Armstrongites steeped in their legalistic bullshit.  The law and piggies have more power than their "jesus" does.

Next the Apostle wants you to know that you are not to be friends with the world and society around you.

I cannot help commenting and I know many will take this the wrong way, but when
Herbert Armstrong used to brag about how he was friends with the world and he used to say that he is friends with this king, and that prime minister, and this ruler,
and those people, and those members of parliament, and he valued the friendship
of the world. He should have read the Scripture, “Know you not that the
friendship of the world is enmity with God. Whosoever therefore will be a
friend of the world is the enemy of God.” It is wrong to try and be
friends with this world, with this society.

This is the verse and reasoning that Armstrongisms has always used to get around feeding the homeless, the poor, the disenfranchised, etc.  Why dirty our righteous clean hands when God will deal with it all later.

If we stop breaking God’s commandments, we can be forgiven. If we don’t stop,
how can we be forgiven?
How can we possibly be forgiven if we’re continually repeating the same sin, continually repeating the same criminal act of breaking the law of the kingdom?
If we are continually repeating and continually committing criminal acts, we will be judged a criminal and we will pay the penalty for our crimes.
It is only if we stop being a criminal, stop committing the criminal act, stop breaking the law of the kingdom, only then can we be forgiven, only then will our sins be covered by the sacrifice of the Lamb of God!

Sigh........, Malm just doesn't get it!  Doesn't get it at all!

UCG Hypnotizing Its Members?

If things could not bet any weirder on Apostle Malms blog.  Today he has headed down a new path.  Subliminal seduction, the subconscious mind, hypnoses, visual stimuli, and more.

The human mind filters everything that is put into it; based on its knowledge, previous experience and logic.  If we hear someone say that black is actually not black but  bright red, our subconscious mental filter dismisses that automatically without having to think about it; that is our subconscious filter at work.

Changing the basic settings on our subconscious filter [changing our basic foundational references] is called brainwashing or mental conditioning.  When the basic subconscious filter has its settings changed, we will look at things in a different manner.  Our natural filter will now filter out different things and accept different input as fact without question, than it did before. We will see our world in a completely different way.

To reset our mental filter, new input must be passed by the existing filter and then replace the core beliefs in that existing filter.  Normally that new information would be automatically FILTERED OUT and REJECTED as wrong according to the ingrained standards of  our existing filter.  So the key to resetting our basic beliefs is to argue logically and painstakingly prove our points; or to bypass our existing filter and reset our foundational beliefs.

When the new material intended to be internalized is regarded as patently false by the recipient, the proof and logic route is clearly a most difficult one.

The attempt to condition the brethren to apostatise therefore mainly  involves the use of brainwashing techniques intended to circumvent the presently established core beliefs of our subconscious mind or internal filter.

The main technique is the use of modified hypnosis.  This involves getting the brethren into a very relaxed situation which they are familiar with and quite comfortable in.

When the brethren feel comfortable and are in their familiar safety zone, their normal defenses are in neutral as they are in their safety and comfort zone and hearing from people they trust.  Their defenses are lowered and the are susceptible to suggestion.

At that point an error is slipped into a pile of truth as a straw is slipped unnoticed into a haystack of truth.  Over months, more and more bad straws are slipped in, until the stack of core beliefs begins to look very different; and the error outweighs the truth in our mental stack of truth and error.
This is a gradual process, often referred to, by the frog in the heating pot metaphor.

Apostle Malm thinks UCG is heading down a slippery slope towards changing it's doctrines to liberalize Sabbath and Holy Days.  He is particularly incensed that the remaining UCG leadership is comprised of men who were active participants in disfellowshipping COG members during the Tkach years.  These liberal heretics are in teh process of changes doctrine which will damn UCG members to the Lake of Fire.

It all started with them allowing members to eat on on Saturdays after Church.  Eating out makes you make someone work to fix your food.  And don't use that lilly-livered sissy response that, "...but they are already working."  God forbid if you kept your day care center open for a few minutes after sundown!

Apostle Malm wants you to know how UCG is slowly brainwashing you:

Another part of the technique is: Visual stimuli will be quickly flashed before an individual can process them, with a relaxed and undefended mind; or flashed and then hidden among some truth, thereby interrupting the processing.

Most of us learn by seeing, while some of us learn by hearing; others learn in a hands on manner.  To combine the methods of hearing and seeing, is most effective in reaching any group of people.

The UCG Feast film is a classic in mind conditioning; first disarming the mind with lots of touchy feely, sickly sweet, love love, and pictures of the familiar and safe; followed suddenly with quick flashes of doctrinal apostasy, flashed so fast that neither the eye nor the mind can have time to properly consider the meaning of what is being presented to them; thus bypassing the natural filter or mental defense system.

People just internalize the message that what we eat is not important without questioning or thinking about it, or even realizing it.  later they may hear sermons on the same idea that we are to be defined by our “love” and tolerance and not by what we chose to eat.

Over time and as this is done in a variety of similar subjects the mind is conditioned into the “Love is all” concept; while the very definition of love; which is the keeping of the commandments is destroyed in the mind of the victim.

Apostle Malm goes on to quote part of a letter from a UCG member that "gasped with shock" at what she heard in  the UCG Feast film.

The UCG feast film is very subtle but I cannot understand how brethren can sit through it and think nothings going on because it’s soooo obvious !!

It starts off with the UCG President Luker preaching directly to camera at what looks like the home office.
It is very sugary sweet at times, nice warm close ups of mature  brethren in United talking about how they came into the Church and nicely reminiscing about the past, talking about Herbert Armstrong.

These close ups of mere brethren are cut to nice warm fuzzy childhood memories of Aaron Dean and Eddington. But then the subtle sinister odd part happened amongst these nice, warm cost memories are the screen goes completly blank with a black background and in tiny White type quotes from the NIV flash up. These blackout NIV quots must only be up for a few seconds blink, blow your nose, turn your head away and you would miss them.

The one I found highly suspect was a blackout which had the NIV quote about how we are not defined by what we eat or drink. I was so shocked I actually gasped.

So eating bacon is more defining than being a good Samaritan?  A little sausage is more important than feeding the homeless?  An occasional shrimp cocktail is more important than loving your neighbor?

All I can say is the quicker UCG starts dumping the heretical load of legalistic crap than burdens down members the better!  A life of grace is sure better than all the law keeping legalistic rigamarole that Malm wants to imprison members with.

UCG, it is time to set your people free!  It's no longer 1986!

The Power of Poor Little Piggie

Poor little Piggie gets no respect! 

Poor little Piggie gets blamed for all kinds of things in the eyes of true believers.

Piggie is supposed to be in gelatin. 

Piggie has been accused of being in lipstick.

Poor little Piggie has been used to save lives in operations except in the eyes of true believers who would refuse his help. 

Piggie gets blamed for contaminating food that has been cooked on grills while true believers are dining at the Feast. 

Poor little Piggie gets blamed for being used in shoes and belts. 

Now poor little Piggie gets blamed for being used in cereal.  What's a poor Piggie to do?

If I remember correctly, the sugar on frosted cereal is held onto the cereal by a coating of pig material. Is this correct?  We use only unbleached natural sugar in our food!!

Poor little Piggie seems to occupy the minds of true believers more than Jesus does. 

Poor little Piggie obviously has the power to  prevent them from helping the poor and disenfranchised. 

Poor little Piggie stops them from clothing the homeless and taking care of the sick. 

Poor little Piggie seems to be far more important than Jesus because Piggie seems to occupy their minds more. 

They talk about Piggie all the time but ignore Piggies Master. 

Poor little Piggie seems to be mighty powerful!

Happy Thanksgiving!

Happy Thanksgiving to one and all!

For those Armstrongites who will not be eating halal Butterballs, this ones for you:

The Beast Power: "...is some kind of Catholic"

Besides worrying about halal turkeys, Prophet Thiel has bigger fish to fry.  He is on his Beast Power trip with Karl Guttenberg today.  Guttenberg was the German who moved to Connecticut recently that whipped Thiel into an end times frenzy. He is a spy in our midst gaining intelligence secrets from society around him that he can use later when Germany invades the country.

Today, Thiel lists several points on why Gutenberg may be the Beast of Revelation:

Here are 23 items to consider as to why Karl zu Guttenberg could possibly fill the role that he now seems to be advocating:

1. Baron Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg is a leader from middle Europe and has a Franco-German/Assyrian bloodline.
2. He has a military background.  The Beast of Revelation 13 is shown to be a military political leader.
3. He is considered to have some economic expertise.
4. He is an extremely popular politician (he was the most popular in Germany in early and late 2010).
5. He is considered an expert on foreign policy.
6. He was “Minister of Defence” for Germany.
7. He is some type of Catholic.
8. Because he is married to a Lutheran (and she apparently did not convert prior to marriage), he apparently is not super strict about being Catholic (some other news reports I have seen also seem to confirm this in other ways as well).
9. His wife also has political connections, and has made several public  “morality statements”.  Hence suggesting that the Guttenbergs represent the moral high ground in Germany.
10. He seems to have ecumenical tendencies, and that is what the “Great Monarch” of Catholic prophecies and the final Beast of Revelation would likely have.
11. He is a descendant of the Habsburg line of rulers (the Emperors of the Holy Roman Empire were from the Habsburg line).
12. He may be considered to be entitled to use the “King of Jerusalem” title that Otto von Habsburg held.
13. Charlemagne was a Frank-German leader and “Holy Roman Emperor”.  Certain Catholic prophecies indicate that the “Great Monarch” will be a descendant of Charlemagne.
14. His blood line crosses into various countries in Europe (at least Germany, France, Austria, Liechtenstein, and Croatia).
15. He has the right to select the priest for his parish.  Hence, the idea that political leaders should be involved with religion is something he was raised up believing. A leader combining church and state is prophesied in Daniel 11:37-38 and Revelation 13.
16. The understanding that his title means “Baron of the Holy Roman Empire” is interesting as the Book of Revelation describes a power that would resemble a re-emergence of “the Holy Roman Empire” and Catholic prophecy specifically tells of a time when “The Great King will be crowned Holy Roman Emperor by the reigning Pope” (Birch DA. Trial, Tribulation & Triumph: Before During and After Antichrist. Queenship Publishing Company, Goleta (CA), 1996,, p. 555).
17. The fact that he has been the most popular political leader in Germany suggests that he has a certain charisma that would be consistent with that which is expected for the final Beast leader (cf. Daniel 7:20,11:21-24,31; Revelation 13:3-5).
18. He is believed to careful cultivate his public image, which seems consistent with the cunning (Daniel 8:25) and other practices of the final Beast leader (Daniel 11:36-38).
19. Because a Catholic monarchist relative (Karl Ludwig Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg) of his was involved in a plot against Hitler in 1944 (and killed for it in April 1945), he may be perceived as less of a threat than others with a German background.
20. He is considered to be a smooth talking attractive leader.
21. Some of his entertainment actions suggest that beneath his exterior he may have certain “vile” tendencies (cf. Daniel 11:21). His plagiarism scandal seems consistent with this as well.
22. He is in a type of self-imposed exile and Catholic prophecy indicates that the Great Monarch is supposed to have a period of exile.
23. He has risen to powerful positions quite quickly.  And may do that again.

What is even more worrisome to the Prophet is that Guttenberg's wife wants the German state to take precedence in child abuse cases instead of waiting for the Catholic Church to rectify the situation.  Given the abysmal record of the Catholic Church in handling this child abuse scandals, I guess Thiel prefers that more children be abused while the Catholic Church tries to handle it.

To slightly expand on point 14, notice the following news account that suggests his wife’s attitude is that the state is above the Catholic church:

…Stephanie zu Guttenberg, the head of a leading child protection group and wife of Defence Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, who called on the state to get tougher on abuse rather than leave it to the Church…Guttenberg, who is the German president of the anti-abuse group Innocence in Danger, said the state could not leave it to the Church alone to pursue abuse.
“Priests and clergymen are citizens of the Federeral {sic} Republic of Germany. And if a citizen here commits a crime, then that must be punished through the institutions of the state,” she told reporters at a fundraising event Monday evening. (Minister calls for abuse compensation. The Local: German News in English, 9 Mar 10. http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100309-25745.html viewed 03/09/10)

So, if Baron Guttenberg has a similar attitude to his wife, he may feel that the state has the obligation to be above the Catholic church–a view that seems consistent with one that the King of the North has (cf. Daniel 11:36-38).

 When he became part of the Washington-based Centre for Strategic and International Studies, Baron Guttenberg acquired new contacts in the USA that he is likely to use politically in future. And since there is at least one major Israeli leader in the same think tank, this may influence him enough so that he possibly can fulfill the prophecies Daniel 9:26-27 (which he may do directly, or perhaps only through confirmation indirectly).

Whether he is the one or not the one to fulfill the biblical prophecies to be the final King of the North, I believe that the Baron’s scandal earlier this year and his current self-imposed ‘exile’ appear to be consistent with certain non-biblical prophecies about a leader commonly referred to as the Great Monarch and possibly biblical prophecies concerning the Beast, the final King of the North.

Thiel concludes his article in typical COG fashion. After decades of failed prophecies and outright lies by Meredith and others, Thiel overs his butt by ending his entry with this:

On the other hand, it is possible that Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg could simply be a normal politician, with ups and downs like many others. We will see.

I guess Thiel wants to make sure that when Germany invades the country that they don't head straight to Arroyo Grande to imprison him and his family.  Oh wait, they will be in the Marriott at Petra.  How silly of me!

COGers Worried Over Butterball Turkeys That Have Been Killed According to Muslim Halal Standards

Leave it to Prophet Thiel to have such an absurd posting on his blog today.  I still never cease to be amazed at the stupid things that occupy Armstrognite believers minds.  Imagine a turkey taking precedence over the words of Jesus.  Oh wait, this is Armstrongism, after all......

One of his readers, most likely another LCGer, sent him an article that claims Butterball turkeys are killed according to halal specifications. But then you have to take the source of this news story.  For some reason COGers love to read World Net Daily as a news source.

Anyway, here is the blurb this reader sent to Thiel:

America’s favorite meal may be secretly dedicated to Allah…

Customer service representatives from Butterball, one of America’s most popular Turkey brands, confirmed to WND that the company’s whole turkeys are – without being labeled as such – slaughtered according to Islamic “halal” standards…Multiple phone representatives at Butterball confirmed the turkeys are slaughtered according to halal standards, and one named Tracy (she declined to give her last name) further confirmed the words of Islamic dedication are spoken over the birds.  Has your Thanksgiving turkey been sacrificed to idols? http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=370177#ixzz1eRWF91z4

Then the Prophet asks the questions if Christians should eat such meat.

Presuming that WND is correct, this does seem to be a bit unusual.  Perhaps I should add that the above article also states that Butterball is not the only company that allows Islamic prayers over turkeys (there also may be Islamic prayers over other slaughtered animals as well).

Some people find such practices offensive.  And it does show that there is increased Islamic influence in the USA.

But should Christians be willing to eat such meat?

The Prophet responds that it is OK to eat the turkey as long as you do not offend your guests if you tell them that a Muslim prayed over the turkey.  He uses Paul as his defense:

4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.
9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. (1 Corinthians 8:4-13)
27 If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This was offered to idols,” do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience’ sake; for “the earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness.” (1 Corinthians 10:27-28)

I am glad that is all settled!  Now I don't have to throw out my Butterball turkey!.  As if I would anyway!

Love Your Enemies or Pray That They Die?

While I find 95% of what Apostle Malm posts to be total nonsense, I had to laugh today when a reader on his blog said that they are praying that his time be cut short for his attacks against the UCG.  Such loving qualities that Armstrongism has breed into it's mindset!

If UCG and the rest of the COG's truly followed the teachings of Jesus then they would be turning the other cheek and praying that God would love and bless their "enemies."  Instead they cling to their old covenant idolatry and revel in the blood, guts and gore of vengeance being poured out on enemies.

The COG has had numerous people who had said that they pray that God kills critics, gives them cancer, cuts their life short, etc.  Weinland prays that his accusers be struck dead. Neville Stevens cult prays that God will strike down their oppressors and if God doesn't do it then they will do it. 

Your time spewing this filth is short! Prayers will be going up to the Father to shut down such falshood and lies, …distortions of the facts, …totally immoral approach to situations, …not to mention unChristian-like behavior and slander. I am a member of the body of Christ and I, like many others, have Spiritual discernment. You are NOT the owner of all of God’s thoughts on these matters. As a matter of fact, …you have no idea how God looks at these matters. If you did, you would have a different approach. You slander, accuse, slant, spin and even change your tactics as the previous ones show fruitless towards your cause.

You are of your father, and you do his will. But my Father will not continue to sit idly by while you stir the pot of strife, …6 things the Lord hates – YES seven are an abomination, …let the reader understand!! You, James, are guilty of the #7. I fear for you. I pray for you, …and at the same time I pray that God shuts down your ability to attack the members of His body with lies and defamation!! I call on all those who read this message and are ‘of the body of Christ’ that they will join in prayer with me. For the prayers of the righteous avails much!! Please, children of God, look at the lies this man is publishing and ask God to deny him the power any longer.

NO COG is perfect. They were not in the 1st century. All men do need to repent!! Even this man, James!! I pray for repentance for him!! He is guilty of much that displeases God, as we all are!

James- – - Pick another battle!! Pick another leader!! You are following the father of lies!! I do pray for you, as I pray against the work of your hands and the evil desires of your heart!!

In the name of Jesus Christ, I ask you to step aside from such an evil cause. I understand you think your are doing a noble thing. I’m sure Judas thought he was correct as well when he sold out Christ for a few pieces of silver. He later realized his MASSIVE mistake. I pray that you see yours, …before it is too late!! REPENT!! Stand on truth and NOT SPIN!! Get rid of the rotten agenda!! …whatever it is, it is NOT of God!!

I am going to pray ,,,,…..Please, all others join me!!

"This use of logic when it suits Vik Kubik and the COE is appalling."

A reader on Malm's blog commented on the Zambia cattle situation and compared it to UCG taking a building from the Houston members for their own use when COGWA split. 

UCG would do well to stop all of it's silliness in this stupid cattle fiasco and move on.  Instead they are digging the hole deeper and making total asses of themselves.

It is interesting that the Houston Church Building which was paid for by the brethren in Houston had to be relinquished to UCG because of the “law.” That building was an outcome of the Houston brethren’s, donations and labor contributions (there are many that are involved in the construction field). The building was turned over to UCG (100% paid). The brethren there thought that the documents prepared by UCG’s attorney would protect them. Alas, they did not. With about 95% of the Houston members leaving UCG, they would have the same claim as Vik is making here in this case. The members that contributed the majority of the funds left with COGWA. It came down to the Houston COGwa congregation taking the high road and not wanting to take UCG to court.

This use of logic when it suits Vik Kubik and the COE is appalling. This letter also demonstrates what has been the continual problem with this management team. Half truths and in some cases flat out lies.

As far as the name changes, one would have to be familiar with the laws in these countries as to the ease of changing names. It might not be a simple matter as it would be in the US.

Verdict: "GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE PROPHET AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY."

Prophet Thiel has made up a list of "charges" against Ron Weinland that "prove" he is a false prophet:

Some of these "charges" can be taken and inserted with Rod Meredith's name and thus would equally apply to him!  Shall we make our own list of failed false prophecies of Rod Meredith?

Charge 1: He falsely claimed that he was given power on April 17, 2008 as that was the start of the Great Tribulation, according to him, and that the real others could not see this is that the Great Tribulation at that time was supposed spiritual.  His own testimony convicted him as he later claimed that the Great Tribulation began on December 14, 2008.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 2: He claimed that his wife Laura was the second of God’s two witnesses effective on April 17, 2008, the supposed start of the 3 1/2 years of the two witnesses gaining power (cf. Revelation 11).  Neither Ronald Weinland nor his wife Laura have displayed any of the miraculous powers of God’s two witnesses.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 3: He wrote in his 2008 God’s Final Witness book that various leaders in the Living Church of God, United Church of God, and Philadelphia Church of God would die towards the beginning of his Great Tribulation.  None have, and since according to his own statements, the Great Tribulation is mostly over.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE PROPHET AND CLAIMING TO BE ONE OF THE TWO WITNESSES AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 4: He falsely claimed that a little after April 2008, the US dollar would be worthless.  The US dollar is still valuable.  And apparently according to the IRS, so valuable to Ronald Weinland that he allegedly “did willfully attempt to evade and defeat the payment of a large part of the income tax due and owing by him to the United States of America for the calendar year 2008″ on “or about October 15, 2009″ according to federal documents.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE PROPHET AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 5: Ronald Weinland claimed that if the USA was not nuked by June 2008, he would resign, admit he was false, and never preach again.  The USA was not nuked, he did not resign, he continues to preach, and has not publicly admitted that he was false.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 6: He falsely claimed that the USA would not get a new president to take office in January 2009.  Yet, on January 20, 2009, Barack Obama became USA’s 44th president.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE PROPHET AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 7: He claims to be part of the Church of God, yet instead has repeatedly denied the deity of Jesus.  The Bible teaches that Jesus is God.  Verdict: GUILTY OF HERESY AND APOSTASY.

Charge 8: On August 8, 2009 he falsely declared that 2008 was God’s final witness.  That is false.  By definition the two witnesses are supposed to give a witness.  His own words again convict him.  Furthermore, he and his wife Laura have not been effective witnesses.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 9:  On December 19, 2009 he falsely declared himself to be the final Elijah.  Yet that 1) contracts his own writing {Weinland R.  The Prophesied END-TIME. 2004, pp. 73, 75, 85, 89, 106, 108} and 2) that simply is not true.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 10: Ronald Weinland continues to preach and teach false information about the Great Tribulation and the return of Jesus Christ–which he now claims will be May 27, 2012.  This is not possible as certain biblically-required events have not occurred (see, for example, Matthew 24).   Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

"The Culling of the Flock"

Check out a well researched article by Jason about the demise of Armstrongism on A Cult In Decline – Armstrongism In The 21st Century

The Culling of the Flock 

Recruiting however, was only one side of the coin. Once the recruit was in place, great effort was made to keep them attending and to keep them loyal. The WCG was undeniably a very successful church in its day. If the numerous co-worker letters are to be believed, the WCG grew at a steady rate of 30% a year. It would be fantastic if these claims were verifiable, (especially turnover figures) sadly however, they are not.

What we do know is that during the entire course of Herbert Armstrong’s reign, there was never a shortage of members who became unhappy and left the cult. Whether it was because they took issue with doctrines like D&R and makeup, or because they became disillusioned with HWA’s heavy-handed leadership and his constant requests for money, people were always leaving. The never-ending battle waged by those in power was one of damage-control: a constant search for the disaffected, a race to find these “rotten apples” and stop the spread of their discontent before it could affect others.

In the end, the tactics of selective recruiting & culling the herd left the deck stacked highly in Armstrong’s favor. As the years progressed, the group grew to become something other than just a religion. Eventually, it became – at least to the vast majority – a Cult of Personality.

More Crazy Things COGgers Say

Poor COG-Writer Dr. Bob just doesn't get! Those guys who never
where nothing in WCG shouldn't try to correct a Senior Evanglist who would never hurt a flea. Talking about who needs to repent and
needs prayers???

Christ taught the Apostles who in turn taught the
church what Christ taught them. HWA was taught by
Jesus Christ and we all were taught by HWA. If we
don't follow what the teacher taught us then why did we need him in the first place? Government is what God wants to see all His people follow and obey.

We had better heed to the one whom God sent and used to teach us what we should be following not our own ideas or the ideas of other men who claim they know better than HWA.

 Regarding The Passion of the Christ movie.  Jesus is obviously a graven image in the movie.....go figure that one out!

Maybe I am the dumbest person on this forum. But, the second commandment says not to make images.

So, when you say "Should we not then allow that the Gibson movie  naturally suffers from similar flaws"... The flaw is that its breaking one of the Ten Commandments. End of Story.  There is no *allowance* for that.

We are forbidden to make images of God or of anything angelic or heavenly that even *could* be worshipped.. or that was worshipped.  This includes many earthly objects that were worshipped in times past.   This movie is exactly an image of Christ.. a false image set up.

Maybe this is what God plans to use the YELLOWSTONE
super volcano for -- TO RAIN FIRE AND BRIMSTONE DOWN
ON SICK, PERVERTED NATIONS WHO WOULD DARE ATTACK GOD'S SERVANTS FOR SPREADING HIS TRUTH!

Maybe THIS will be the kind of language these perverts will  understand, to die in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AS SODOM AND GOMORRAH!

And with the lake bed of Yellowstone Lake rising at least 3 ft.+ per year, and the animals dying all over the park from SULPHUR POISOINING, I dont' think our gay hugging Canadian friends will have long to wait!

Real Christians (COG, of course) Will NOT Be Watching Football on Thanksgiving Day

Prophet Thiel is on his annual anti-football rant because it is close to Thanksgiving and football occupies the TV's in most homes that day. 

Is playing football really about "loving your neighbor" as the Prophet claims?

Dirty, nasty, violent, ungodly football! You are damned to the Lake of Fire!

Should Christians support violent sports like American football?

The late Herbert W. Armstrong wrote:

Hostility toward the other is sin…Boxing at Ambassador College is definitely banned. God did not create the human brain and head to be pummeled and knocked senseless by an antagonist.
Wherever a game in sports involves antagonists–in hostile attitude to harm the other and/or to “get” from the other–to get the best of the other then a harmful, satanic and evil attitude enters in, and the sport is evil, not good…
Football (American football) is a violent body-contact sport. It is often played with an attitude of hostility and is dangerous and is fraught with physical injury. (Plain Truth, July-August 1984)

While I have even heard some thank God for football, it is not a sport that I believe that the God of love would condone.

“Love does no harm to a neighbor” (Romans 13:9), yet what do sports like American football and boxing do?

Gnats and Camels

This is courtesy of Van Robinson, a reader of this blog:

GNATS and CAMELS

*Man-made religions all strain at gnats, with their do's and don'ts.
*The Internet is a veritable library of websites by innumerable sources, proclaiming what they believe as "truth."
*Human religious leaders will often lead the gullible and the naive down a path of gnats.

*Jesus taught that the pharisees strained at gnats while swallowing camels and this is typical of the religious minded.
*The religious minded will focus on days,  physical buildings, physical temples, dress codes, head gear, tithing, titles, credentials, religious "education", Ink on paper called "the Bible" as if God is the Bible,
"religious languages", scholars, "pastors", "prophets and prophetesses", "end times", television preachers and quoting "the pastor said", or some "prophet or prophetess" said, or upon following someone that is a
charismatic leader and speaker, or someone that is thought to be of influence.

*Jesus taught that swatting at gnats as so many do, is a narrow minded focus, while this type of tunnel vision blinds the mind to the far more important issues of LOVE, COMPASSION MERCY, EMPATHY and HUMILITY.
*Many church groups and countless church goers are GNAT SWATTERS.
*Gnat chasers think that going to church, observing days, tithing, financing pastors so they can go fishing, hunting and play golf, while poor people struggle to make a living and other gnat ideas, is what makes a "Christian."

*It is human to swallow camels and strain at gnats. 
*There is no greater and more important life principle than "love your neighbor as you love yourself" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "blessed are the peacemakers", based upon Jesus Christ.
*Gnat chasers are more concerned with Saturday church, Sunday church, meetings, days and religious issues than "LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE BEFORE MEN, THAT THEY MAY SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS and GLORIFY
YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN."

*Camel swallow(ers) bypass HUMILITY and draw attention to their own self-importance, as all religious leaders do.
*Cult beliefs always involve swatting gnats, because their ideas of what "truth and righteousness" are, are simply the cult leaders camel swallowing nonsense.

*What is more important---to love others, or to go to church?
*What is more important---tithe to the local "pastor" or feed your children and family?
*What is more important---listen to preachers preach, or be led by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit?
*What is more important---read the bible everyday for life, or produce the fruit of love, compassion, mercy, empathy and humility?

*Gnat chasers make a religion of bible study, going to church and following human religious leaders (who themselves are deceived, they just don't know it).
*Gnat chasers deny that they are gnat chasers.
*Gnat chasers think that gnats are so important that they swallow camels.

Only The Best For The Leaders

I had to laugh when I read the following news story this morning that someone sent me.  It immediately reminded me of the hypocrisy of Armstrongite church leaders that claim to be "Just stewards" of the tithes of Church members as they live lives of luxury. 

Mr./Evangelist XYZ is God's TRUE Apostle/leader/Pastor General who needs to interact with world leaders at their own level.  Therefore we MUST have the best. Best Westerns and Marriott's are NOT for us!  We must have our luxury suites, drive the best cars, wear the best tailored suits, etc.

While the people suffer, the leaders revel.

As we can see from the following article, hypocrisy knows no boundaries:

Occupy Wall Street Leader Reportedly Pitches Golden Tent at 5-Star Hotel

Hell no, we won’t go — unless we get goose down pillows.

A key Occupy Wall Street leader and another protester who leads a double life as a businessman ditched fetid tents and church basements for rooms at a luxurious hotel that promises guests can “unleash [their] inner Gordon Gekko,” The Post has learned.

The $700-per-night W Hotel Downtown last week hosted both Peter Dutro, one of a select few OWS members on the powerful finance committee, and Brad Spitzer, a California-based analyst who not only secretly took part in protests during a week-long business trip but offered shelter to protesters in his swanky platinum-card room.

“Tents are not for me,” he confessed, when confronted in the sleek black lobby of the Washington Street hotel where sources described him as a “repeat” guest.

Spitzer, 24, an associate at financial-services giant Deloitte, which netted $29 billion in revenue last year, admitted he joined the protest at Zuccotti Park several times.

Read the entire story here:  Occupy Wall Street Leader Reportedly Pitches Golden Tent at 5-Star Hotel