Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Why the Anthropomorphic Language Describing God in the Old Testament is Allegory
By Ranger
“Imagery was never intended to define God; rather, imagery is a window through which we see aspects and facets of the nature and character of God.” -- William Paul Young, “Lies We Believe About God”, p. 73, 2017.
God is absolute. I think it is difficult for the human mind to deal with the concept of absoluteness. We are much more familiar with those things that are relative. “Relative” and “absolute” are opposites. If something is relative, it exists on a scale and it is conceivable that it can be scaled up and scaled down. For instance, one person can run faster than another person. If something is absolute, it is not defined across a graded scale but is total.
Absoluteness is a part of our reality. The idea of “nothing” denotes something that is absolute. The null set contains nothing and that is without conceivable exception. But it is a philosophical concept, an abstraction that does not map well to anything we know experientially. Absoluteness, however, is not just an abstraction. Physicists regard the speed of light as absolute among other absolute physical constants. And also, the Bible tells us that God is absolute and we will turn to that next.
The Exegetical Argument for the Absoluteness of God
Those who point out that God is absolute are often criticized for not having supporting scriptures. People are skeptical because, I think, that God’s absoluteness is profoundly disturbing to many. It’s like a scenario where some guy lives in a cave all of his life. And at the age of forty or so someone tells him the cave is not the whole world and leads him to the surface. As they stand on the surface in daylight, he sees the boundless sky for the first time. Does he exult? No, I think he would be profoundly disturbed, maybe even terrified, and would want to immediately retreat to the enclosed security of the cave. Same scenario concerning God’s absoluteness.
God’s absoluteness is difficult for those atheists who see evolution as the driving force of the Cosmos. Hawking said, "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing". That odd statement assumes the existence of gravity, gives no etiology of the Cosmic infrastructure, and is apparently the best that advanced cosmology can offer. The absolute God is the source of the non-evolutionary features of reality, such as existence itself, time, space, the organizational infrastructure (particles and sub-particles) of matter, and others.
So, here are some scriptures. It is important to point out that this is not a proof of God’s existence. That is a separate discussion. This is a logical, scripture-based argument that the Bible asserts an absolute God.
An exegesis:
“By the word of the Lord the heavens were madeand all their host by the breath of his mouth.” (Psalm 33:6)
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1, KJV)
“By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.” (Heb 11:3, ESV)
“All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.” (John 1:3)
It is clear that the Bible asserts that God, the uncaused first cause, created all from nothing. If God created all things then there were no already existing things from which to fabricate the universe. If God had pre-existing substances, then he did not create all things and is not a creator but a fabricator. In Gnostic terminology, a fabricator is not God but a demi-urge. The Bible supports God as creator and not God as fabricator. God the creator then created all things from nothing as testified by scripture.
This means that God created and controls, in totality and without qualification, the created realm including our Cosmos, which is our objective reality. The created realm is his in all of its existential features. Reality does not operate outside his purview as its creator. He created our reality and has absolute possession of it. His complete possession of it does not exist on a scale of some sort. He doesn’t just happen to own the created realm more than others who might be co-owners, for instance. He is absolute.
To Define God by Anthropomorphic Language is to Portray Him as Relative and Deny is Absoluteness
Without a doubt, the Old Testament describes God in human terms. But such scriptures as Psalm 33:6 above tell us that this is not the full story. While there is no neat, cohesive exposition of God’s absoluteness in the Old Testament, we may understand it from the distributed data we are given.
Humans are relative beings. A man may be very strong because of superior musculature. Others may be stronger or weaker than the man. Power in our realm is relative. Some stars generate great energy and other stars lesser energy. A similar scale exists for intelligence. God created human powers and capabilities and they are relative. To say that God is “all-mighty” is the application of a human relative term to God. God may be seen as all-mighty through the lens of human relativity in order to make God more intelligible to humans but it is not a characterization of God in his ontology, his existential essence. God is absolute. Levels of power are meaningless to him. This kind of relative power that is relevant to humans is utterly irrelevant to God. He is not just the biggest kid on the block. And human beings will never be absolute like the uncreated God is. There is an ontological category difference between God and humans in spite of the sound bite “God as God is God.” But that is a separate discussion. The sales pitch to you that you are going to be God-as-God-is-God is a blatant fable. You are relative now and forever. As a created being you will rejoice forever in what God creates ex nihilo (Isaiah 65:18). You will not be a creator but rather a fabricator.
The rule is that if a descriptor is scalable, it is anthropomorphic and allegorical when applied to the absolute God. To accept the anthropomorphic language of the Old Testament as descriptive of God in his essence is to diminish him in the mind to being relative and a denial of his actual absoluteness.
A Remark on Poetry/Allegory in the Bible
I once heard from the Armstrongist pulpit that God rides on a cherub when he goes places. After all, in Psalm 18:10, it says:
“And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.”
This text creates a dramatic picture in the mind, but it is poetry. It is not literally true but is a vivid word painting. It allegorizes God’s swiftness in coming to the rescue of Israel. One might argue that this statement is poetry because God is omnipresent and does not need to go from point A to point B (he is already at both points) and certainly not riding on a cherub – a parallel to human equestrian travel. But while the intentions of the argument are good, there is a problem with the appeal to omnipresence.
On careful consideration, the word omnipresent is a relative rather than absolute concept. Human beings may occupy place in space. Three coordinates can identify that place. But omnipresence means that God occupies all places in space. But what about God’s presence in non-spatial realms? So, omnipresence is just an intensification of the human ability to occupy a place in space. It remains a relative concept. But, in fact, God created space and is not bound by the three-dimensional coordinate system. Humans do not have good words to describe this idea. There is very little language of absoluteness in our daily talk. Writers of theology tend to use the term “transcendent” to capture those qualities of God that are beyond our human relative experience. And if we are careful with language, we must admit that God transcends such terms as omnipresence that are based on human relativity.
Summary Statement
Among those who are close readers of scripture, to believe that God as a relative being in essence is the ultimate lèse majesté. God is great beyond our knowing. We cannot plumb the depths of his absoluteness. Like “infinity”, absoluteness knows no limitations. Yet, we are made in his image. He has placed a little flame of his endless, brilliant fire in the small lamps that we are. No doubt many followers of God down through the ages have thought of him in relative terms rather than absolute terms without injury but also without a fitting appreciation of God. But for those who wish to consider, the horizon is dispelled and boundlessness enters in.
Note: I always marvel that when I write something that exalts God, it makes Armstrongists angry because what I have written does not conform to HWA’s declarations. It as if they have no ability to consider anything for themselves but always default to what HWA said. If God is anthropomorphic and relative like HWA has asserted, I would like to see a well-reasoned rebuttal to what I have written here – not just a collection of ad hominem attacks and inane sound bites.
The filthiness of all David C. Pack’s prophetic sins was washed clean by the blood of Israelis this weekend. During "The Greatest Untold Story! (Part 474)" on October 7, 2023, the Pastor General of The Restored Church of God exploited the horrific atrocities against Israel on the Last Great Day to prop up his self-perceived biblical legitimacy.
When the Kingdom of God neglected to appear on the Feast of Trumpets and the Opening Night of the Feast of Tabernacles, David C. Pack became increasingly desperate to whitewash his recent string of failures. After swearing off date-setting during the Feast, he continued to give “maybe” dates supported by lists that “suggested” the Kingdom’s arrival was only days away.
The shocking event early Saturday morning provided David C. Pack with “the lucky break” he had been praying for. The vile attacks committed by Hamas handed him a means to perpetuate the illusion of his authority as a man chosen by God to end the Mystery of God, unseal Daniel, and proclaim the arrival of Jesus Christ.
“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.”
― Rahm Emanuel
David C. Pack interweaves the war in Israel with his realizing that he had the Kingdom timing wrong. The two are linked to fulfill a transcendent purpose.
Part 474 – October 7, 2023
@ 01:25 …on Thursday, I began to develop a sense (I’ll explain this) that we could go beyond the Last Great Day. And, of course, the Feast of Tabernacles. It matured yesterday. Last night. I was still a little hopeful yesterday…that our wait might be over. But, no more.
@ 02:06 A great Bible prophecy is underway. I long saw (partially understood), but not fully.
@ 03:52 Now, you know I’ve long-wrestled whether I’m to announce a date.Many verses suggest Yes. Others No.
@ 05:53 But, my job has been to try to see and examine all these other possibilities…Going another year is not one of them, and there was never any doubt of that, but war in Israel today ended all possibility that that could happen.
The world cannot go on another year without Jesus Christ returning because of what began in Israel this weekend. So says David C. Pack.
@ 11:29 But, I walked in this morning to powerful confirmation of timing.And I wanna cite…what began in Israel this morning.
@ 21:54 Let’s remember, I’m gonna show you God did this. I’ll show you His own words where He says what happened today was by His hand, and it becomes the greatest metric. I just wondered [chuckles] when we would see it.
David C. Pack chuckled. He read verses about God’s vengeance upon Israel, he read news stories describing the death and kidnappings of Israeli civilians by Hamas terrorists, and then, he still finds a reason to chuckle.
Thankfully, for the members of The Restored Church of God, their Pastor General has a complete understanding of world events, so he can confidently lead them into the promised land on schedule.
@ 30:43 So, what are we actually seeing? What are we seeing? What is this? What are we seeing on the Last Great Day of the Feast?
The attack came just in the nick of time for David C. Pack to draw a parallel between his revised suspected timing for the arrival of the Kingdom of God and elderly people being murdered in Israel.
@ 35:17 “..and I [God] did it.” Hamas didn’t do this. Now, you have two choices in a way. To say, “Well, Mr. Pack, you sure you got this placed right?” Maybe this massive attack on the Last Great Day of the Feast, when we believe the Kingdom of God is near, is a coincidence. Those are your choices.
The crossing of two lines does not equal providence. Let us reason together.
Line #1: The enemies of God’s people in the Old Testament tried to use obedience to God as an advantage to thwart them. Daniel, Esther, Nehemiah, and Ezra recorded this. The modern nation of Israel is historically attacked on a Sabbath or a Holy Day. This weekend was the fiftieth anniversary of the 1973 attack by Egypt and Syria. The enemies of modern Israel know when they are most vulnerable: on solemn observance days.
Line #2: Every single Holy Day in The Restored Church of God since 2019 is a “Feast when we believe the Kingdom of God is near.” Every year, every Holy Day is a “keep watching” occasion. Whether it is Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles, or the Last Great Day, David C. Pack fills his followers with hopeful ideas that “this” is the time because we “cannot go another year.”
Line #1 intersected with Line #2 on Saturday. It was not divine. It was inevitable. The collision of two non-miraculous circumstances crossing paths does not mean Bible prophecy manifested before our eyes.
It also does not prove David C. Pack’s validity as an apostle, prophet, or even a man of God. He fraudulently invented the circumstances by which RCG brethren “believe the Kingdom of God is near” and then shamelessly capitalized on the brutalities committed against Israel to further the fantasy that he has some great insight into what God is doing and when He will do it.
It is all a lie. Do not believe David C. Pack. Do not fear David C. Pack. He heeds to the Spirit of Error and the Spirit of Antichrist, enabled by cowardly hirelings like Ryan Denee, Jaco Viljoen, and Frank Lydick, who care not for the sheep.
@ 35:41 I find fascinating that before this attack, I’d come to realize we have a little more time.“We’re not quite there measuring this right.”
The mirage of confirmation is amplified by the power of presumption.
@ 35:56 When this happened…I knew immediately what my assignment was. I finally understood my last assignment.I was to rush to carry out. Now, I’ve given thousands and thousands of sermons.I’ve given almost five hundred just in this Series. You imagine how many thousands of sermons I’ve prepared? I prepared today's sermon faster than any time I ever have in my life, and I'd been giving full sermons over fifty years. I never prepared one this fast.
Thousands of sermons over fifty years prepared, and this one was the fastest. This "fact" carries significance only because he says so. Also, notice that he knew immediately what his assignment was rather than God giving him the assignment. His assignment came from inside his own carnal mind by the power of presumption. Not from God.
@ 38:24 “But make it plain.” I can now make it plain by simply talking about what you’re gonna hear on every television station almost anywhere in the world. Or every website. My job is not to tell you what news commenters or world leaders would say but to make plain what it means.
@ 39:11 So, my assignment became clear and immediate. Rush without notice to call out and make plain the vision that Habakkuk saw.And why it’s gonna last a little while.
For those in RCG who happen upon this article near the Feast in 2024, please remember the words of your Pastor General. Remember how the October 7, 2023 events meant the Kingdom was only a tiny, tiny micron away. And remember that the vision Habakkuk shrieked over was Hamas terrorists slaughtering Israeli civilians.
Today and in 2024, the words of David C. Pack will prove that David C. Pack had no idea what it meant or what God was "gonna do" before Cheshvan 1. If you remember, why are you still there?
@ 1:00:25 Now, it’s easy to understand. It’s easy. There should be no one alive in this church who cannot now see “the day” approaching. See what Habakkuk saw.
For those who have not been reading these articles since June 2022, you would be astounded at the “easy to understand” teachings David C. Pack had to later recant and admit, "I thought I understood. But now I do." He will absolutely do that again when he is forced to “clarify” the vision Habakkuk saw. It will surely come. Wait for it.
Matthew 12:34
…for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Matthew 7:20
Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.
Proverbs 18:7
A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul.
@ 1:00:55 So, I want you to think of this terrible event where babies are being slaughtered like dogs and old people, too, and you know, Palestinians dying, I mean, it’s terrible. You don’t want to see anybody die.
His choice of using “you” here instead of “I” or “we” is fascinating. This fully supports my growing understanding of the man.
@ 1:01:11 But think of this terrible event (and I’m gonna use a term with quotes around it) as a “final, great prophesied gift—gift” to those watching that we have the right year.
In David C. Pack’s perverted theology, Israeli citizens being kidnapped and murdered by terrorist monsters proves he is right about timing.
If you think that is a flawed analysis of his viewpoint, think again.
@ 1:15:24 I’ve explained this great prophecy that nobody ever understood about God’s warfare by His hand and affliction by His hand in Judah and Jerusalem that tells us we’re close. And I just don’t think He wants to divulge it.
@ 1:15:46 But, maybe He wouldn’t want everybody else to know who hear because we have people who leak the news outta the church. Or the word gets out ‘cause we have enemies.
If you listen carefully to what David C. Pack said, report on what David C. Pack said, and remember what David C. Pack said, you are considered his enemy.
I, Marc Cebrian, am perfectly comfortable with that. He can call me an enemy. The one thing he cannot call me is a liar.
This weekend, the "final, great gift" for David C. Pack was receiving an opportune circumstance that fuels his self-deception while also shocking doubting brethren back into line. If not for evil-minded Hamas terrorists, most RCG brethren would have gone home from the Feast disappointed because nothing happened the way their Pastor General said it would. The Kingdom of God did not arrive. Jesus Christ did not come.
But now, horrific world news gets the prophetic adrenaline pumping, and people crawling over the fence are startled back into the yard they planned to escape. This buys Dave more time of perceived legitimacy with impending world doom, drawing doubters back to the teat of cultish familiarity.
A war in Israel works out so much better for David C. Pack than just setting a date three months away. The gory headlines will provide self-sustaining fears and fervent Bible study that will glue members to their chairs, ensuring they get to Sabbath Services every week and not hold back on the tithe checks.
During a crisis, nobody leaves the safety of an organization promising protection and good things just ahead. Only a few more weeks, everyone. Just a few more weeks…
The Israeli blood spilled upon the altar of David C. Pack’s megalomania is a perfectly timed sacrifice necessary to perpetuate his lies. He will feed off the reported corpses of babies to reinvigorate the crumbling façade that he is God’s Messenger.
Make no mistake. David C. Pack is a documented false apostle, false teacher, blaspheming liar, hypocrite, and proponent of antichrist theology who will clutch on to the crisis in Israel and ride it for as long as he can. He is a proven false prophet who will not "eventually" become a true prophet. Not by divine fiat. Not by accident.
Do not let fear from your news feed deceive you that David C. Pack knows anything about what God is doing today or that "someday" he will finally figure it out. If you believe your Bible, then you know he is forever forbidden from speaking on God’s behalf in prophetic matters.
Brethren, please remember that no matter how bad things get in the world, none of it makes David C. Pack right. No matter how much fire and blood paint the headlines, they do not mean David C. Pack has God's authority. There are not enough earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanoes, terrorist attacks, or nuclear explosions that will ever make David C. Pack true.
David C. Pack will intentionally use the war in Israel to preoccupy your mind and keep you from accepting what you already know.
Many COG members were in Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles, and some are still there waiting for flights out of a war zone.
This Sunday morning despite the mass murders at the Music festival close to the Gaza border, attacks in Israeli settlements, and rocket attacks over much of Israel, many COG members were apparently still considering a post-feast tour of Jordan.
It is time for COG members to stop being such brain-dead simpletons, and for the members of COGWA, LCG, and UCG to stop looking to geriatric and incompetent leadership.
The past several decades are filled with COG members who have mocked God by ruining their lives (marriages, education, and finances) following the advice of under-educated and incompetent church leaders.
Unfortunately, we are now living in an unstable and violent time -- increasing like the 1930s -- and looking to these geriatric fools for advice may well lead to COG members getting themselves and their families killed.
There is a better path. Wisdom cries out to all of us: How long will you COG simpletons love your simple/foolish ways (see Proverbs 1:20-22).
I hope the young people especially in the COG will hear wisdom's cry to all of us!
It is another day in COGland and the craziness continues. Instead of following Christ and being at rest and living life to the fullest, our charlatans in residence just have to keep opening their flytraps and keep saying something stupid.
Today's nuttiness comes from our favorite little guy we seldom talk about here...cough...cough. He now has placed himself on the same level as Jesus when it comes to making mistakes in judgment. All of you silly fools who believe that he makes mistakes seem to forget that Jesus also made a mistake when he brought Judas on board with all the other apostles. Stupid Jesus, how could he be so blind? I'm not like him, but if I were, I'd be in good company. Snort...
This is now the Great Bwana Mzungu Bob responded to Terry Nelson's comment the other day about corruption in the improperly named "continuing" Church of God:
The fact is that I have removed leaders from Kenya, Malawi, and Mozambique for corruption. Additionally, at least two of them who are now in the Hope of Israel signed a statement on September 4, 2022 that the allegations against CCOG minister Radson Mulozowa were false and that they would not make such allegations again. Their statement, along with the signature page, is shown on this page dated 09/23/23 p.m.
Jesus was also accused of being associated with corrupt ones (Luke 7:34). Furthermore, even if I missed any corruption, recall that Jesus wrote, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?" (John 6:70). Thus, by accepting the view of the post at Banned, one would have disqualified Jesus. Making errors in judgment does not disqualify prophets--if so, that would have also disqualified the Apostle Paul.
If you are a Christian then you understand how Judas was part of the plan of salvation. Bwana Bob and his corrupt church are nowhere near that. In fact, they are at the bottom rung of a bottomless cesspool.
Another thing that the Great Bwana Mzungu is getting his wholistic panties in a twist over is that Terry Nelson and the rest of the Church of God REFUSE to acknowledge that his dreams are validation sent directly from God giving him permission to start a new splinter group when he apostatized from the Living Church of God.
First one about prophets and dreams.
In the past, Terry Nelson did accept my report on dreams.
But now, he seems to have lost knowledge of that and related scriptures.
God said:
Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision;
I speak to him in a dream. (Numbers 12:6)
The Apostle Peter said:
17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy. (Acts 2:17-18)
So, yes, the God of the Bible uses dreams to communicate to prophets and dreams were prophesied for the end times. And the CCOG has confirmed signs and prophecies...
Here is what the Bible says about false dreamers who lie to the brethren as Bwana Bob is doing:
Zechariah 10:2 For the household gods utter nonsense, and the diviners see lies; they tell false dreams and give empty consolation. Therefore the people wander like sheep; they are afflicted for lack of a shepherd.
Zechariah 11:17 “Woe to my worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May the sword strike his arm and his right eye! Let his arm be wholly withered, his right eye utterly blinded!”
Ecclesiastes 5:3
For a dream comes with much business, and a fool's voice with many words.
Ephesians 2:2 In which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Acts 20:29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
Ecclesiastes 5:7
For when dreams increase and words grow many, there is vanity; but God is the one you must fear.
Ecclesiastes 5:7 For in a multitude of dreams and in a flood of words there is worthlessness. Rather [reverently] fear God [and worship Him with awe-filled respect, knowing who He is].
1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
2 Corinthians 11:15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
The Great Bwana then goes on to list these PROOFS as validation that he is a true prophet from God.
Let me also add that in 2013 I wrote that Russia would end up with at least some territory then claimed by Ukraine, and also put out a video a couple of days before its 'Special Military Operation' into Ukraine.
Anyone with any knowledge of Russian history or Ukrainian history knows that this has been an endless conflict and the present war is NOT any proof that Bwana Bob was accurate. This has been predicted for decades to happen. Strike one.
In 2013, 2014, and later, I warned about the risk of corona viruses prior to the COVID pandemic.
Coronaviruses spreading through the world thanks to air travel have been spoken about and written about since way before 2013. This is NOT more proof that Bwana Bob is accurate. Strike two.
Those were the most world affecting events since the CCOG formed and I wrote about them before they happened.
I have also warned that a major regional conflict involving Israel would take place before the end (as recently as within the last week in a sermon titled: When Does the 6000 Years End? 2031? 2035?) and such will be the case.
Only a hermit in a cave in outer Mongolia would not know that some kind of conflict was to arise between Israel and the vermin from Hezbollah and Hamas at some point in the future. Strike three, Bobie Boy! You're OUT!
Bwana Bob's jackassery just keeps getting better and better!
Sadly Bob Thiel has deceived himself about his prophet status, as a real prophet of God would never have to keep the validation scheme continually being brought up.
A real prophet of God would have signs and direct revelation from God and not have sketchy dreams as proof of his prophethood.
A real prophet of God would never be so deceived on such a massive scale and be financially supporting evil false ministers and supporting abuses and covering up or turning a blind eye to reality.
A real prophet of God would never use the excuse of saying I'm entitled to a salary, so the money I send to Africa is really my salary, so it really isn't God's money, it's my salary I'm entitled to receive.
Seriously folks Thiel is on record via several witnesses including me and my son as saying this. Would a minister of God, much less a prophet of God say such a weird statement? So does that mean Bob Thiel feels his salary should be in the neighborhood of $150 to $200,000 a year, almost half of the Continuing Church of Gods' Income or it could be much more?
Bob let's have some release of information on how much money you sent to Africa in the last 5 years or are you afraid to release that information?
Then we can really know how much you feel you're entitled to in the way of salary!!!!
Bob Thiel preaches about the Man of Sin and the False Prophet and how they will have the full power of signs and lying wonders.
I leave this last question to CCOG members; do you really think that Satan and the soon-coming Antichrist don't know about the evil African CCOG empire of Confusion? Even if Bob Thiel is preaching the truth, it won't matter because he ignored evil in his own Church.
it will be all exposed at that time and People of the world will say this man is Crazy he can't be trusted or believed.
Ever since Bob Thiel had that plate of bad oysters and had those horrific nightmares about starting a new church, he has been trying to prove his legitimacy ever since.
He claimed he and others had dreams about how great he was to be. Never had the church had a man as great he is. He had been planned into being as the foundations of the earth were being set forth.
Ever since God and Jesus were sitting around the heavenly kitchen table pondering what the next part of the plan of salvation was to be, the subject of Bwana Bob came up.
They laughed and laughed and laughed.
Then the Holy Spirit walked into the kitchen and she asked, "What are you laughing at"? They told her and she said, "Let's do it! The church could use a laugh in the perilous end times that he will appear in". She even said, "Let's stir this pot up a little and create Gerald Flurry and Dave Pack to make life more interesting and keep him a little humble". "Let's also make the true church so that they never ordain him". All three of them sat there chuckling about the soon-coming Great Bwana Bob to Africa and 100 Caucasians.
Lo and behold in the 2,000's the soon-to-be Great Bwana to Africa and 100 Caucasians had his nightmare to apostatize from Rod Meredith's authority and ever since there has been the sticky subject of his ordination. Who would ever believe him if he was not ordained by a minister of the one true church? After all, no one in the Worldwide Church of God did. His friends in the Global Church of God didn't, and no one, including Roderick C Meredith, ever did when Bob was a Living Church of God member. That created a sticky problem.
Never fear though, he took a prayer of Gaylyn Bonjour as proof God was going to work through him, then had some nightmares before he traipsed off to Africa to have one of his African con artist evangelists lay hands on him.
At no point in any of this apostolic succession malarkey was he ever ordained by anyone who had their ordination through a direct lineage back to the Apostle Peter. It is an impossibility. Bwana Bob no more has legitimate apostolic succession than does any priest in the Catholic church. It is nothing more than a human construct to legitimize leaders in their follower's eyes. In fact, it is not even a New Covenant expectation, or command. It was dreamed up in the first century to combat heresies that were entering the church by men such as Bob Thiel. Little did those men know that centuries later in America a crazy crackpot would try and use this to prove his legitimacy.
The Great Bwana Bob Mzungu to Africa and 100 Caucasians seriously believes he has apostolic succession going a the way back to when Jesus laid hands on Peter's head. The Great Bwana and so-called "Chief" Overseer of the improperly named "continuing" Church of "god" claims to be the one true church carrying on original 1st century Christianity. Nothing could be further from the truth than that.
Nevertheless, Bob persists:
The true Christian Church of God, and all of its true ministers, have laying on of hands succession from the original apostles to present.
And yes, we believe all who held succession did keep the seventh-day Sabbath, including Peter Waldo.
On the sixth day of the Feast of Tabernacles, David C. Pack interrupted a field minister's sermon to teach The Restored Church of God more important information. Temporarily titled "Special Comments," David C. Pack inserted a 29-minute message on October 5, 2023, that will be later renamed “The Greatest Untold Story! (Part 473).”'
The entire clip has been posted until Brad Schleifer imposes a copyright strike against the YouTube channel. You can jump to each timecode listed below to see Dave in action.
Decency and order are nice to preach, but putting it into practice is only meant for the brethren as a means of control. The hirelings need not abide by such restrictions.
The term “out of order” can be applied to various circumstances.
• A machine is “out of order” when it is broken or temporarily nonfunctional.
• Someone is “out of order” in a courtroom when they practice inappropriate behavior.
• A sequence is "out of order" when the presentation adulterates the widely accepted succession.
David C. Pack and The Restored Church of God are out of order in all three ways. It is a broken church teaching heresy as a doctrine promoting another god and another gospel. David C. Pack has systematically reduced the significance of Jesus Christ in the Bible and has assumed divine titles for himself. Confusion and interruptions are a mainstay in that corrupted organization that acts as a functional betrayal of all the principles upon which it was founded in 1999.
The reporting on Part 473 is out of order because I skipped writing about Parts 471 and 472 for now. This was low-hanging fruit too timely to pass up.
Field enabler Nestor Toro either got a note slipped to him, or he interpreted hand gestures from the back of the Main Hall because he knew to stop talking, step aside, and let David C. Pack have the spotlight.
Special Comments (Part 473) – October 5, 2023
Nestor Toro @ 00:00 And now, brethren, I will cut my sermon at this point because we have Special Announcements. We have an additional an addition to the prophetic understanding that we’re what we have been learning. And for that, our Pastor General, Mr. Pack.
Dave always knows how to warm up the crowd, especially when a child cries.
@ 00:28 Somebody’s crying because I’m gonna speak again. [big audience laugh] I don’t blame them. [laughs] He always says he’s done.[audience laughs] Thanks to Mister Toro, who adjusted on the fly.And he understands rushing to call out his sermon [chuckles] now. I wanted a quick mention that title that is important to be aware of just before coming down.
Hey, Nestor. So much for your weeks of careful preparation to give that message at the Headquarters’ Feast that can no longer be produced due to an abrupt ending. Dave gets what he wants when he wants, and everybody else be damned.
Notice David C. Pack mentioned “coming down.” Because I am fluent in Packinese, I knew he was stating he was too busy with more important matters to attend Services like everyone else. This means he was toiling in the Third Floor Executive Imaginarium instead of assembling for Services with the rest of the commoners. After all, he has no need of such trivialities.
Dave confirmed at the end of the message what I already knew in the first minute. This admission is more for the skeptic’s sake, not mine.
@ 29:19 I'll just say I truly rushed today. Certainly, again, not having planned to speak. I know you know that. I mean, I didn't contrive all of this. My typist will tell you I prepared this message entirely upstairs, and I missed the sermon. All of it. I didn’t have a note written down until it all came together at home this morning.
David C. Pack willfully skipped an RCG Service because what he was doing was more important. He instructed a sermon he did not hear to be cut short so he could riff on ideas that proved utterly worthless 24 hours later.
This point holds a vital significance later when he gets on his soapbox to hand down firm judgments and death threats upon the RCG membership.
As is his style, Dave poses a question that implies the answer.
@ 01:54 What if the Last Great Day is exactly one day off?Lemme just go straight to the question. I would normally take more time to explain this. But what if every verse cited two days ago is just as correct after the Last Great Day?
And by "just as correct," he means not correct at all. Today is the Last Great Day. The attacks in Israel will surely send Dave into Chicken Little conniptions, but that has been in and out of the news since 1948. One summer a few years back, Israel was under constant rocket attack for over a month. Dave was not "just as correct" back then and is even further from “just as correct” now.
@ 02:12 What if other verses (certain verses) even fit better if we waited one more day?
If waiting one more day is “better," it must be much more super betterer-est waiting ten years. That is the state of The Restored Church of God. David C. Pack has been prophetically failing since August 2013.
@ 02:29 Why don’t you just set your pencils down, your pens. And I’m not gonna tuh I’ll turn to maybe one verse.
Dave flew off the handle with his Greatest Hissy Fit in March after he heard that some members do not take notes during his messages. But it is okay when he instructs them not to take notes.
To be fair, Dave never turned to a verse but recited three during the 29 minutes. But the set-up showed he planned on spending his time spouting off his opinions, which is most often the case. His theories have Bible verses nestled in between to give the impression of being correct.
Former Worldwide Church of God members may find this following tidbit of interest.
@ 04:32 The Feast (and all the brethren now understand) is eight days long. The Feast of Tabernacles is seven.The Last Great Day is the eighth day of the Feast. It’s the last day of the Feast.So, would it be you go one extra day?
Since the inception of The Restored Church of God, David C. Pack firmly taught that the Last Great Day was a separate feast from the Feast of Tabernacles. He loved to criticize the United Church of God (UCG) for blurring those two independent Holy Days by combining them. He called that a heresy and a watering down of God’s Word.
But as of Part 472 on October 3, 2023, UCG became innovators ahead of their time. Denny Luker is happily strutting in his grave because his Ambassador College nemesis finally adopted his thinking. Instead of throwing stones at UCG and PCG, Dave has reversed course and adopted their doctrines. The self-imposed walls of the Splinters Us vs. Them are getting thinner in RCG.
For the record, do not think I am advocating that Dave is wrong on this. Leviticus 23:36, :39, and Numbers 29:35 clearly state an eighth day holy convocation during the Feast of Tabernacles. The Last Great Day is a term inferred from John 7:37.
Whether the FOT is eight days or seven, I have no skin in the game. The hotel bills and airplane tickets all confirmed we were there for at least eight days, so it does not personally seem like a big deal. It was worth noting because Dave reversed his adamant decades-long stance.
Dave got to participate in one of his favorite aspects of his self-assigned position. He took off his belt and laid the brethren across his knee. Just remember, he does it because he loves them.
@ 09:43 Here’s another powerful point. And it’s very powerful. And I’m gonna warn the church right now. I’m gonna give a very strong warning and a rebuke to people thinking of leaving. Hebrews 10:25 tells people to assemble. “So much the more as you see the day approaching.” Don’t stop assembling. This is equated with the will of God in verse 36. And vengeance on those who ignore it.
When you measure the standards of David C. Pack against himself, the outcome is not optimistic.
God has a sense of humor and is a fan of irony. David C. Pack ignores assembling together with the brethren more often than anyone might think. That has been his custom for years. I am not the only eyewitness to this.
By his own admission at the beginning of this message, he came down from on high because he was not in the room for the assembly at Headquarters. Even the All-Believing Zealots notice his absences. I wonder what excuses they come up with so they can keep smiling as they put the green envelopes into the basket.
During the Feast of Tabernacles of years past, Dave and his team did not attend all the Services, even when they were not traveling. Sometimes, they did not show up at all unless Dave took the stage. His personal Bible study and high-level discussions with trusted advisors were more important than obeying the will of God to assemble. Assembling with the brethren is beneath him, just like paying attention to the opening prayer is beneath him.
“…before coming down…I missed the sermon. All of it.”
He recalled a Last Great Day story from the 1960s and another from an unknown point in RCG history as if they were necessary flags of warning for current members. He had to reach back sixty years to find something that illustrated an infrequent occurrence in the COG landscape just to justify his threatening rant.
A not-yet-ordained unidentified hireling at some unknown time spotted two unnamed members allegedly dressed casually on the Last Great Day. If you wear shorts on a Holy Day, it is the Lake of Fire for you! Details are so sparse on this account, and knowing Dave tends to stretch reality to the breaking point, the validity of this account should be highly in question.
My rainbow story is worth a review for those who have not yet read it.
David C. Pack is a personification of biblical hypocrisy to the nth degree. Not only does he chastise brethren for doing the very thing he does, but because he proclaims this under God’s authority, he blasphemes God and takes His name in vain. When a man accepts the role of a “minister,” he acknowledges the agreement of a greater judgment before Jesus Christ. Yikes, Dave…
@ 12:22 Now, had he been a minister, I woulda said to them, here’s what I’da said if I’da been there, “You are disfellowshipped immediately. You can do anything you want. You're outta the church, and you will not ever be back.That’s willful disobedience against God’s Law. You’re gone now.”
Stop.
The next time David C. Pack skips Sabbath services, Holy Day services, or an Offertory, please walk up to him and state with God’s authority, “David C. Pack, you are disfellowshipped immediately. You can do anything you want. You're outta the church, and you will not ever be back. That's willful disobedience against God's Law. You're gone now."
@ 12:42 Now I told you I’m gonna be strong.All eight days is the truest test. I’ve watched thousands and thousands of people blow off the Opening Night. “Well, I don’t feel like it.” But, you’re to follow the traditions of God down through the decades.
Stop.
God does not have traditions.
Conduct an eSword search to put Dave in his place. The “traditions of God” is a fraudulent concept with no biblical authority. David C. Pack just made it up. God has laws, statutes, and judgments. The church has traditions and standards. They are not equal, yet Dave tries to make them seem comparable.
And he knows this. Two weeks ago, Dave admitted to RCG members that the Opening Night of the Feast of Tabernacles was NOT a commanded assembly but a tradition Herbert W. Armstrong of The Worldwide Church of God created.
Part 470 – September 23, 2023
@ 40:15 There's no evidence (and this is gonna be kind of important later on)there's no evidence that the Church of God or the Scriptures ever say that the Opening Night is to be kept at the Feast of Tabernacles. It’s just not there. Mr. Armstrong modeled the seven fall days (of course, the Last Great Day, the eighth) but modeled them after Passover. Passover opens with the Night To Be Much Observed. So, he thought, "Well, the brethren are all there. We oughta have an Opening Night Service."
So, which is it, Dave? Is the Opening Night a commanded assembly or not? Is it a sin to skip it or not?
Many people will owe Ole Herbie a clean punch in the face after his resurrection for inventing traditions like the exhausting Feast of Tabernacles Opening Night Service, giving uncommanded offerings on Atonement, Trumpets, and the Last Great Day as a way to bilk the brethren out of more funds, and the unbiblical theft known as surrendering “excess” Second Tithe to the church. Herbie conjured those.
The church doctrines regarding make-up and birthdays are also entirely manmade and cannot be proven with just the Bible as your support. Watch any World To Come or read RCG’s literature to observe how they dance around those issues. Binding and loosing, man. Binding and loosing.
Not only does Dave throw people out of the church, but they may DIE before they get home.
Special Comments (Part 473) – October 5, 2023
@ 13:22 “For if we sin willfully after we received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins.” And the context is the will of God and assembling at the Feast. You’re done! You leave the Feast, you’re done. You may not even get home.
If you find yourself disfellowshipped from RCG, count it as a blessing rather than a punishment. Those outside RCG are thankful they are today. Whether they quit or were thrown out, everyone is better off for it.
The golden ticket for any COG is the “binding and loosing” verses that codify “because I say so” policies. The sticking point to that authority is that it needs to come from a legitimate apostle. David C. Pack is not a legitimate apostle. Neither was Herbert W. Armstrong. Even worse, David C. Pack is a proven false prophet and blaspheming liar. Nothing he says has any of God’s authority.
When Paul instructed followers of Jesus Christ to abide by church traditions, it was qualified with careful wording.
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Our epistle. Meaning the New Testament Bible. Not Herbie.
2 Thessalonians 2:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother that walks disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
Received of us. Meaning Paul, the apostles, and the New Testament Bible. Not Dave.
Churches can have traditions. But breaking those traditions does not carry the same consequences as breaking a command of God. David C. Pack doles out condemnation as if two separate things have the same value. Church traditions are not as important as God’s laws. But he and his enabling hirelings exercise enforcement equally.
@ 13:44 I’ve often said, and this what our ministers are instructed to do right now.Starting right now. You ask people, “Do you believe sin is the transgression of the law? And it is a law that you keep the Feast. It’s a commanded holy convocation. Commanded assembly, all of it.
Well, technically, not "all" of it. One small side point: HWA also came up with having services on the second through seventh days of the Feast of Tabernacles. Those are not holy convocations. Only the first day is a commanded assembly. The eighth day, known as the Last Great Day, is a commanded assembly. Not days two through seven. Go read it.
Believe that only if you are a Bible purist. You know, taking the Word of God at face value and following the instructions as written without the private interpretations of False Apostle Know-It-Alls like Davey Faux Passover and Herbie McGot-Much-Of-It-Wrong.
Would it not be interesting to learn in the Kingdom that God intended for His people to rejoice for the Feast by going on relaxing, entire-day outings with brethren and family and that He never meant to have official services eight days in a row?
@ 14:19 …and they say, "I'm still leaving," they're finished. Don’t even let ‘em keep the rest of the Feast. If you find that out today, expel them immediately. I warned the church a year ago if there's anybody thinking like that, you're gone now if we can discern it. If you know of anybody who’s gonna leave the Feast, tell us now so we can maybe save their life.Maybe warn them and save their life. If not, expel them. They’re way more than out of the church.
Snitchers gotta snitch.
@ 14:59 I’m glad I have the opportunity to stand up and speak like this.I'm sorry I have to. But maybe we'll save a few lives.
To truly "save lives" in RCG, people must flee before the miracles start. The next rung on the antichrist ladder toward further demonic thinking will be when Dave starts having vivid dreams of God giving him instructions. First will come the dreams. Then will come the miracles.
@ 24:51 And I can give you ten verses that say the saints alive on earth today who fell away die day one. They don’t drift on through the Kingdom for a year.
Leaving RCG has a death sentence attached to it, brethren. This message was not a warning for those who will leave the Feast early but a warning for people who leave RCG at any time.
With the continual disappointments through Trumpets and the Last Great Day, Dave knows some people made too many plans to abruptly depart before the Feast, so they will leave after. It is as good a time as any, with months before Passover, to plan a better future after The Restored Church of God.
RCG members did not come to the Feast to learn to fear God. They came to learn to fear Dave.
@ 29:39 So, now we wait a really tiny, tiny micron…we wait two days, not three, from two days ago [chuckles] till tomorrow. But, two days from today, and even that's more accurate.
Something entirely inaccurate cannot be more accurate. Accurate is not even in the ballpark. Nothing David C. Pack declares prophetically will be accurate. Ever.
And what exactly are they waiting for? Just a few days ago, Dave swore off setting dates.
Part 471 – September 30, 2023
@ 1:43:41 I just don’t know. And I’m not here to tell you the day. I’ll never do it again. I’ll never do it again.
This out-of-order 29-minute interruption wove in points about today being IT. Wow. That "I will never" declaration was one of his most short-lived yet. I wonder what excuse-making is happening across the street right now because nothing prophetic occurred today.
There will be more clarifying knowledge dispersal in the coming days with Part 474, which will prove to be even more accurate because they were not supposed to see the newest piece of the puzzle until it was the right time at the very end as part of the ending of the Mystery of God.
This article is an out-of-order report of an out-of-order message delivered by a man completely out of order with reality who runs a church out of order with God’s Word.
