Many COG members were in Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles, and some are still there waiting for flights out of a war zone.
This Sunday morning despite the mass murders at the Music festival close to the Gaza border, attacks in Israeli settlements, and rocket attacks over much of Israel, many COG members were apparently still considering a post-feast tour of Jordan.
Their folly seems to know no bounds.
It is time for COG members to stop being such brain-dead simpletons, and for the members of COGWA, LCG, and UCG to stop looking to geriatric and incompetent leadership.
The past several decades are filled with COG members who have mocked God by ruining their lives (marriages, education, and finances) following the advice of under-educated and incompetent church leaders.
Unfortunately, we are now living in an unstable and violent time -- increasing like the 1930s -- and looking to these geriatric fools for advice may well lead to COG members getting themselves and their families killed.
There is a better path. Wisdom cries out to all of us: How long will you COG simpletons love your simple/foolish ways (see Proverbs 1:20-22).
I hope the young people especially in the COG will hear wisdom's cry to all of us!
Aristophanes
56 comments:
This is absolutely appalling to read! How can church leadership and especially the members be so incredibly stupid? There is no longer any moral leadership left in the Church of God.
11:55 wrote:
“ There is no longer any moral leadership left in the Church of God.”
Where is moral leadership on this site.And, what’s with this atheistic, non-believer, anti biblical, shtick of quoting the Bible to condemn Bible believers, while not practicing what the Bible says themselves?
Offer a viable alternative instead.
Unfortunately, it's true that many ACOG members have subcontracted control of their lives to their ministers. This is outright condemned in 1Thessalonians 5:21 with its "prove all things," and many other scriptures which condemn lording it over the members. And the ministry is definitely under educated. They pretend to have the wisdom of king Solomon and Doctor Phil, but from what I can discern, most have only read a few non church books. I know that some only glean over books.
Yet this is the church culture that most ministers believe in. They think that by keeping members docile and dependent on the ministry, numbers will be maintained and their comfortable, privileged lifestyle assured. The problem is that they are putting their confidence in "Esau morality" rather than God's perfect law.
Btw, I feel so sorry for those young people killed and kidnapped. I regularly thank God for having reached old age, and in one piece.
12:35 wrote:
"Where is moral leadership on this site.And, what’s with this atheistic, non-believer, anti biblical, shtick of quoting the Bible to condemn Bible believers, while not practicing what the Bible says themselves?"
Good grief! What planet are you on? The ONLY viable alternative to to LEAVE Armstrongism and find true faith in Jesus. Not with some geriatric theological illiterate fool leading a COG.
All you do is blab constantly about how bad people are here and yet you offer no viable alternative.
Are you implying Aristopilock that LCG and COGWA have members in Middle East on tour ? That is how it reads.
It would be interesting to know which churches still promote Petra as a place of safety and which does not. As one who lost several relatives at Jonestown, I hope THAT LESSON is not forgotten by anyone!
12:54
Yet, you still offer no alternative your self. Why is that? Because you have none, except “leave Armstrongism.”
Great. Why don’t you tell us what “true faith in Jesus” is. That is just a generalized statement that leads nowhere. An easy out.
And, yes the people here are grumps and complainers without portfolio.
Just complaints, and NOT ONE POSITIVE ALTERNATIVE, just a generalization going nowhere.
So, where is the morality here? Biased, ill informed assumptions, etc. but absolutely nothing positive. Only “he/them bad, we criticize thus we good.” And, we can’t tolerate someone else pointing out our own groupy behavior.
Thanks for trying.
"Where is the moral leadership on this site."
The title of this site is Banned by HWA. It primary goal is to expose the abuses and lies in Armstrongism. The "leadership" on this site is inherent in uncovering the abuses. And in case you never noticed, many of the comments on this site have appeared on ACOGs web sites. These churches "borrow" material from this site, so we often do lead.
It's only former minister and professed atheist Dennis Diehl that has consistently quoted the bible to condemn the bible and its believers. This is scientifically irrational.
I don't know where the Middle East flights landed. But there's no fighting in Jordan right now (unless you know something I don't). So it might be A place of safety for the moment.
"Just complaints, and NOT ONE POSITIVE ALTERNATIVE, just a generalization going nowhere."
Have you been reading the comments? As a POSITIVE ALTERNATIVE, how about members being stewards of their own lives, rather than having that stewardship stolen by a power hungry ministry. It's called FREEDOm (from others) rather than TYRANNY.
3:53 yes I have been reading the comments. And the posts that spawn the comments. Why do you think I question this site? Do you read the comments.
Why don’t you list for us the groups that are NOT “a power hungry ministry.” Telling people to run off somewhere blindly is NOT a positive alternative.
Besides, I don’t believe the majority of the folks this site is “trying to warn against a power hungry ministry “ are even paying much attention to this site. There’s an old sales slogan this site might want to consider in making its points. “YOU CANNOT SELL A MEAL TO A PROSPECT IF HE JUST ATE BREAKFAST!.”
And that seems to be the plan here. What this site does consistently is to “PREACH TO ITS CHOIR.”
You have to create the hunger first. Then sell your breakfast.
Or, offer a better product, otherwise many salespeople try hard but never make the sales.
You have a potentially great product but the marketing isn’t working as it could.
Then write an article that meets the needs you think are missing here. You talk a lot of bluster but have nothing to offer. As usual.
I think what you mean is a "viable religious alternative"
Our only intelligent course of action is to 1) Hold the ACOGs accountable by continuing to point out the abuses, foolishness, error, lies, sins, authoritarianism, failures, and damage which these groups constantly promote, but to 2) Leave it up to the individuals who read here to find their OWN alternatives.
That is the organic way in which this blog has evolved, because believe me when I say that there has been no shortage of wannabee gurus over the years who actually did provide their versions of alternative solutions, looking to pick up followers. Most of us were not prepared to put up with that kind of bull shit and ego trip, because we had already seen enough! So, we told them where to go, thankfully they felt unwelcome and did not remain for long at all. Anybody who thinks we're here to provide or endorse a solution beyond leaving Armstrongism hasn't been paying attention!
So here's the deal. We'll share what we found to be wrong and even unbiblical. Atheists with a past background in theology can do that just as well as Christians. You decide whether or not to believe what is shared, and whether or not to use your God-given choice to adjust or modify your beliefs. That is your right! I know I certainly don't want to be anyone's guru. I've already watched others abuse that in the worst possible ways!
A very viable religious alternative is to actually step away from organized religion. Take a rest, take time to heal from the spiritual abuse, and refresh yourself.
The sad reality for many people leaving Armstrongism is that they still think they need to be in a physical church to be in a relationship with God. It has been ingrained in us by spiritual despots and terrorists that to leave the "one true faith" or the "restored truth" is to be totally abandoned by God. Nothing could be further from the truth than that.
Sometimes the best alternative is sitting by yourself and asking why did this shit happen. Praying a simple prayer like, "What the fuck, God!" is deep, honest, and to the point. It's not like God thinks this is the worst thing you could ever say since he has heard it all.
Scripture is filled with lots of examples of faithful men and women arguing with God. The Jewish people have a rich tradition of arguing over the meaning of scripture, kind of like iron sharpening iron, but not in the Armstrognite version of its meaning.
Stepping away from an Armstrognite church, or any abusive church, for weeks, months, or years is a healing thing and in no way breaks any relationship you have with God. Sometimes your best spiritual experience is outside in nature being rejuvenated. That sure beats some booklet-trained Armstrongist ministers babbling on for hours on end over meaningless topics that God doesn't give a rat's ass about.
The Jews who attacked the mosque were probably trying to inflame Hamas so they could speed up the day the Messiah comes. Sounds like something an Armstrongist might support.
4.43 pm,
How can this site be consistently preaching to the choir considering that it has over 11 million hits?
Regarding "power hungry ministers," you are ignoring that the ACOGs are waging a war of conditioning its members to accept tyranny as the norm. While I attended services, many members accepted this as "reality" and were quick to run to a "daddy" minister in case of any discomfort in their lives.
From an article on brainwashing:
"The environment (in a Chinese prison, for instance) can literally stand
reality on its head: demand that all within its sway commit them-
selves to altered versions of external events, and then insist that
these falsehoods constitute "objective reality."
That you find fault with the above warning raises suspicion about your
motives.
Look, 4:43,this is not the FSB, CIA, or MI-6, where you could come on here and "turn" the webmaster, making him an agent of Armstrongism, and subverting the blog. Do you even realize that this is the first time, to my knowledge, that Gary has ever used the "F" word in one of his comments?
We're all here because we like this blog as it is. It serves our purpose, which is confronting Armstrongism and holding its perpetrators accountable, preventing more people from having their lives destroyed by such a damnable, and toxic cult.
Are you beginning to get a clue that you are going to run into more and more opposition if you continue? We don't need your voice here. Why don't you just quietly go away, and (heh heh!) don't forget to shake the dust off your shoes on the way out!
8:15 wrote:
“ Anonymous said...
4.43 pm,
How can this site be consistently preaching to the choir considering that it has over 11 million hits?”
Well, first off that is not 11 million people. Divide the number of years this site has existed, and counted hits. Then divide that by the average hits each person makes daily, weekly, or monthly, etc., and the number of visitors decreases. Then, add to that the attitude of this site against HWA, RCG, WCG, GTA, etc. and you will find the site IS preaching to the choir.
From what I see this site is not a warning but simply a regurgitation of old complaints against old dead people, and the kooks who snuck in and took advantage of human failings.
My motives are simple, get the anger over by the misinformed and get the rumor mongers to grow up and quit complaining with negativity. Not only does that affect the ones you are trying to reach, but makes the critics even more negative by thought and activity. Some call it “group think.”
Isn’t it strange don’t you think, to tell people to change because they are a simpleton? And, to tell them they need to change because they are following bull s***, and leave the s*** alone, and ask God what the f*** is going on? What kind of mindset is that when most of the people you are trying to reach and impress believe that kind of language should not be used?
When I went to Pasadena that kind of language was something to be avoided, even words like doggone, dang, etc., because they were surrogate words for curse words. GTA even suggested the word ghastly if someone had to vent. He got it from a trip to England.
A good speaker is supposed to know his audience. Don’t you know many of those called simpletons here believe the scriptures that teach not letting filthy speech even cross their lips. So, if this site does that what makes one think that is the way to reach the target audience?
Hope that helps. Maybe I will write an in-depth article. Thanks for the invite NO2HWA.
I always love how people pop on here every once in a while and get all indignant that this blog is not doing what THEY think it should be doing. Apparently, too many of them are not smart enough to read the very headings of the blog. It is not about recovery, though it is talked about here, or a channel to lead people into another church, though Christianity is talked about here. Here is what this blog is about:
"Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before! With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable."
In that, the people posting on this blog accomplish that.
10:39 you just proved my point.
In the articles and responses people are asked to leave where they are. So the site is trying to change people. But, one can’t do that if those people are called dopes, simpletons etc. and then cursed at.
However, if that’s what you want to do and be, have at it. Was just offering some universal tips to make the site more effective.
So, the choir is preaching to itself. Go for it.
Talking about self?
They are rebels from within the Armstrong ministry. That's why this blog is all bluster and absolutely nothing else. Notice how "they" never ever write about 'life outside of COG'. All they do is complain. They offer no solutions because this blog makes them feel edgy. The blog is here to serve themselves. It is their indulgence, their escape.
Of course it's not about recovery you desire to wallow, to be two faced, to be the fringe element. Do you think you gather the "hits" because it's on trend? It will cease as you get older. It's a spill over of a minister's forum. A development on from The Journal newspaper which was openly called 'only for the ministry' to members.
Which members from any COG group would do this ? They haven't the time nor the inclination. Who's fooling who here?
The blog is an ecology system which has evolved over the years via natural flow into the mixture of people, and variety of discussions we see each day. It's dynamic, not static.
Now, someone we really don't even know has burst on the scene and wants it censored and refocussed to meet his particular preferences and specs. The ego which would produce such demands is typical of most Armstrongite ministers. If that's you, dude, I hope that you are like totally disturbed by everything you read here, and are just wringing your hands in displeasure. That would be so karmic, because basically this blog is actually about you!
"Was just offering some universal tips to make the site more effective."
Not really. Your posts are only imperatives telling readers what to do, plus non-stop railing accusations. Civilized persuasion is not present. It looks like attack guy Kevin is back.
Kevin, the quintessential shit stirrer, always did make a lot of things up, but this new guy, before he began spreading the cheeks of his butt, and lobbing a batch of senseless and gratuitous farts at us all, laid some extensive ground work describing his personal beatific vision of or experiences with HWA, and Herman Hoeh, as he basked in their sunlight during the early 1960s version of Embarrassing College, when everyone including students and faculty got to know one another through dining at Mayfair. The Student Center made the Ambassador Experience less personal, with its exclusive ministerial dining area. Whoever this guy is, he was most likely one of the weirdo upper class men during my own odyssey at AC. Those guys were always trying to take control, and made life hell for anyone who would not accede. The only difference, is that this intruder is not playing for the home team here, even though he might pride himself on still being able to reign in the errant sheep. 2 BAD 4U, dude!
Told you before - not a ministurd and never will be.
I believe it's Kevin since he frequently started his sentences with slight variations of "Isn’t it strange don’t you think, to tell people to.." From memory, he also went to AC.
Nah. It's Mr. Blinders again.
Such off base assumptive guesses. This is why critics here can’t be trusted. They assume the worst and preach that as truth.
Facts reign over assumptions, especially biased assumptions.
None of you got it right in your guesses about who or what I am. Oh well, …..
What is really sad is that someone might make some discoveries here that make remaining in Armstrongism untenable, only to ask, "Why don't you guys tell me what to do now? How can I put what I now know into action without someone telling me what I should do?"
This is unfortunately part of the programming that remains for some people. They have grown a dependency on the guru types and want us to be it for them.
No thanks! I don't need a guru and neither do you!
The answer
Why should we try, 10:37? In the greater scheme of things you don't even matter!
4:49 Is that your final answer?
If I don’t matter, why bother?
It is you, and this site that doesn’t matter. It’s just a toy to play with. Nothing special or substantial.
Sorry about that..
Agh, yes the British are the blessing to the world, who created this strife between Israeli's and Palestinians with the Sykes-Picot Agreement and later the Belfour Declaration. Arrmstrongism won't tell that.
What choice did 'Britain' as you describe supposed to do? Take Jerusalem back themselves? The early 1930s British army experiences/fighting within the region was difficult to say the least for all concerned.
They had the choice of minding their own business. So now we are all now blessed that its everyones business. What a mess.
Comments made were: " Many COG members were in Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles, and some are still there waiting for flights out of a war zone.
This Sunday morning despite the mass murders at the Music festival close to the Gaza border, attacks in Israeli settlements, and rocket attacks over much of Israel, many COG members were apparently still considering a post-feast tour of Jordan.
...Unfortunately, we are now living in an unstable and violent time -- increasing like the 1930s..."
******
Once upon a time a mother, one child, and her husband were on their way to Wisconsin Dells for God's Feast, and on the Day of Atonement in 1973 were attending a WCG service when that Yom Kipper war broke out. That was decades ago.
That woman was caught up in the tribulation (John 16:33 great trib ever since the Garden of Eden days when Satan began his reign over all humanity) in Tel Aviv, and yes had planned on the Jordan tour for 2 days and return to Tel Aviv. She is part of one of them tour groups: nice to travel with those one knows, and can empathize with one another. They were not out to hurt anyone.
The bus was loaded and all were told "at the last minute" to not leave anything behind as they may not return from Jordan. They went back for their things, and continued with the tour.
Many attending God's Holydays found different ways back home. This woman was scheduled to fly to Quatar, and the plan again changed, and it was on to Dubai Emereites area: longer distance from home and more expensive, but she was not returning to Tel Aviv. It's a 14 hour trip to her home International Airport; her aircraft is scheduled to land in about an hour and 15 minutes from now, maybe an hour from when I finish this post: 2:39 pm EST.
That woman, like so many of us, is doing what seemed right in her eyes, and she is doing, like so many of us, the best that she can under the circumstances.
This woman is not a brain-dead simpleton, has never knowingly, or unknowingly, mocked God, or fits into the category of a simpleton.
It is so easy to blame/judge others who are different than ourSELVES, especially when the real enemy goes unrecognized and undetected:
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]." Eph 6:12
Who really believes those words? Jesus said: "love one another," but He knew and understood who the real enemies were. He knew in advance the cause(s) of His murder. How well do we know our enemies?
To be continued…
John
Continuing…
This is a messed up world, to be sure. All of the world is still deceived. The scattering of sheep is a reality, today. Satan hates true Christians, whoever and wherever they are and that has been true for the past 2,000 years (Rev 2-3), but Satan even hates the world that he holds captive: he hates his own! Witness death from hurricanes, fires, wars, drugs, as Satan has people fight one another and even strives to pit man again God. When 2 people/nations are at each other's throats: there is a "third party" involved. How do we know? By their fruits we know them.
Evils are all about us, and we are all learning about evil and learning to hate evil; it's just part of the plan. God knew (Act 15:18; Heb 4:3) that ancient physical Israel, without the guidance of His Spirit in their lives (like today), would never yield to God whether they crossed on dry land across the Red Sea area, or the Jordan River area; they would continue to go a whoring, etc. What's new? God knew who was in the details.
The write-up of this thread does outline lots of the evils experienced by others, and in many cases, rightly so, but we have yet to learn that God's unconditional love is for every human being who has ever drawn breath. He did give His Son, did He not? Jesus loves every human being too (even the satanic-driven Pharisees of old). He did give His life, did He not? It's a plan that God must fulfill: Thy Will Be Done! Who will change it? A day is coming when we all will thank God that He never needed any of our help to establish His Kingdom on earth...some time after that agent of death, Satan, exits the pit. We each will endure to the end, and we will strive to do the best we can with what we have. I am encouraged for all of us in a very faithful loving God, who accomplishes His will in our lives.
Anyway, that woman and her husband observed God's Holydays this year, but in different locations. They each loved each other before any WCG/Ucg involvement, and still do love each other despite having travelled two different paths for the past 25 years. How do I know?
Oh, that woman landing at the Airport in about 45 minutes (2:45pm EST) is my loving wife, as...
Time will tell...
John
Time will tell,
Glad she made it back Mr. John (are you the John from New Mexico?). I know how it is over there. I've have been acquainted with both groups. The thread is a way for us to share our experiences with one another when love is absent from the organizations that we came out of. The groups will eventually take a side without understanding the context of history. They will ignore the evils that both have done. They will look primarily at the physical or perhaps not.
time will tell
Anon, Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 3:41:00 PM PDT, said:
"...Glad she made it back Mr. John (are you the John from New Mexico?). I know how it is over there. I've have been acquainted with both groups. The thread is a way for us to share our experiences with one another when love is absent from the organizations that we came out of. The groups will eventually take a side without understanding the context of history. They will ignore the evils that both have done. They will look primarily at the physical or perhaps not..."
******
Thanks for your response, but I am not from New Mexico. About 30 years ago, my wife, children and I attended, while part of the former WCG, God's Feast in Tuscon, and at one point made the time to visit Nogales, Mexico, but have never visited the state of New Mexico.
The members of both groups are relatives to each other, and seemingly are ignorant of their history. They could trace their heritage back to Abraham, who was told: "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Genesis 12:3 All families be blessed???
The god of this present evil world hates Israel (witness what was accomplished by Satan against physical Israel by the 7 heads of the Beast (Egypt, Assyria, Babylonian-Chaldean, Medo-Persian, Greco-Macedonian, Roman empire, Rev 17:10). After head number 6, then what happened? Enter spiritul Israel whereby the Word was made flesh, Jesus Christ the first sealed firstfruit member of God's Church, and Satan hated Him and His God, His Father. Satan especially hates God's Church (Revelation 2-3), spiritual Israel, wherever it is. There will be no 7th head, Gog, against physical Israel until 1,000 years later when Satan is loosed from some pit.
Fifty years, plus one day, from the Yom Kipper (God's 5th annual Holyday) war of 1973, another war broke out with Israel, but on the Eighth Day (God's 7th annual Holyday for 2023).
When that Eighth day is fulfilled there will no more war among human beings.
HWA, and the former WCG, understand virtually nothing about the Eighth day, and to this day the former WCG hirelings have taken most of the applicable 8th Day verses and lumped them into the Feast of Tabernacles. Even Doug Winnail (you may lump other xcog leader's names with Doug) is still looking for another Jesus to return very soon (in 3-5 years?) to establish His rulership on earth...maybe even with Doug being one of his many "helpers," but where is that Jesus? When a theory is built on sand, it doesn't work out very well. Have the xcog/xwcg hirelings, driven by another spirit, latched on to another gospel? Time is telling.
The fulfillment of the Eighth Day will not be like what was recently experienced in Israel, but the following will be reality in that Day:
To be continued…
John
Continuing
"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God." Revelation 21:3
How could John know about that future view? From God inspiring such prophets's prophecies as: Jeremiah 32:38; Ezekiel 37:26-28; Zechariah 2:11-13; however, the fulfillment of those verses will not occur until Satan is loosed from that pit to deceive earth's inhabitants again, and then be put to death via the 7 Vials (Jeremiah 25:30-33), God's wrath of destruction. It will not be 1/3 of this real estate, and a 1/3 of that as it will be with the 7 Trumps, wrath of the Lamb. God’s wrath (Day of the LORD) will be total destruction, as it must be, before fulfilling the Eighth Day prophecies.
God's plan of salvation to save all humanity, and subsequently destroy Satan and his angels is very long term, but it is sure (Acts 15:18; Heb 4:3). Who will disannul it?
The words God gave to Abraham about all families being blessed were words for the day when the Eighth Day is fulfilled. Satan still wants God to look like a liar, like himself, but God can't lie. God is using the former WCG hirelings to spew out Satan’s lies, but they are blind spiritually and cannot “see” it. Be patient; time will tell.
God has nothing to do with the Mickey Mouse Millennium, but He will insure that the meek shall inherit this earth. It would be nice to have a strong heart that can live forever. It's coming, but we must be patient. God, who is perfect, is in charge of all timing: His timing, His way. Look forward to the fulfillment of the Eighth Day, because then the reality will be evident to one and all.
How did David know future history and “see” all families of the earth be blessed?
Psalm 22:26 "The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
:28 For the kingdom [is] the LORD’S: and he [is] the governor among the nations."
So much for history, and history in advance, but...
Time will tell...
John
John,
Good for you making your marriage work in light of some differences in fundamental beliefs. How do you pull it off?
mike
Mike, Friday, October 13, 2023 at 11:12:00 AM PDT, said:
"...Good for you making your marriage work in light of some differences in fundamental beliefs. How do you pull it off?...”
******
Mike, I really take no credit for pulling it off. We're told that someday all will acknowledge Isaiah 64:8.
"But now, O LORD, thou [art] our father; we [are] the clay, and thou our potter; and we all [are] the work of thy hand."
All will be taught of God, but in accordance with His will being done. All humans will be healed/saved (Jeremiah 17:14), but time will tell.
My wife and I were on the same page through 25 years former WCG, followed by 3 years United Association (1995-1998), then we went separate ways and she continued on with United to this day, which in many ways is still like the former WCG in its doctrines with minor growth in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. I am familiar with all of her beliefs; however, she does not know about my beliefs and changes made in my life since 1998, but that’s okay.
Once upon a time (I will speak for myself: not my wife), I was not seeking God or anything of a Bible, but at some point I believe, due to circumstances in my life, that God the Father called/dragged (John 6:44; Acts 13:2) me and over time He opened my mind to God/Bible, He accepted me, and put His Spirit in me, etc. Again, I never sought God out. By His Spirit, He sealed (I John 3:22-24) me. I never made any choice in this. It all just happened, and I am very happy with it.
I’ve given the analogy before of how it is like God in a boat snagging a fish, which does not want to get into the boat and fights and strives to escape under rocks, etc. to break the line, but God has unbreakable twine.
God is not forcing humanity to yield and obey His laws; so why should I. God is not judging humanity at this time; He knows mankind without His Spirit will not yield and obey at this time.
So, interestingly enough, my wife and I observe the Sabbath and the same annual Holydays, but we both have a different understanding of what those Holydays mean. Neither one of us needs to strive to convince the other of anything. That’s very peaceful to us!
How make a marriage work? Thank God for His Spirit and the fruits it produces in our lives. Don’t judge/blame each other. The more love we express to our mate, the less judging/blaming we will do. Love, like faith (Romans 12:3, 6) is a fruit that God produces in our lives by measure/proportion.
To be continued…
John
Continuing…
Don’t discuss religion or politics. Discuss the Bible only when one asks a question of the other. In my wife’s case she’ll ask minister her questions regarding the Bible before asking her husband. That’s okay. Neither one of us is going to change the other’s thinking, because it is God who grants/gives one repentance. For the world at this time, God is not concerned about the world under Satan’s control; He knows He will pick up the Firstfruits at the completion of the first resurrection and pick up “the rest” at the time of the second resurrection. God has unconditional love for each human being, and each one is a miracle. Still, nobody can figure out how that DNA information got/gets into the cells of all living things.
Anyway, we are all individually miracles, who will learn about evil in various ways and learn to hate evil. We each have our own stories to tell of how we think God may be involved in our lives. We will all sin; we will all die; we will all live again, which is actually part of the good news for humanity. It is not good news for Satan and his angels; there is no sacrifice, no shed blood of Christ our Passover for them, although if there is good news for them it will be that they will not suffer long, will cease to exist, and be as though they never existed; however, they since their creation fit within God’s Plan. Perhaps that will be mercy for them.
Another thought to help a marriage work better, since we all love ourselves (no flesh ever hated its own flesh), is if at the time of marriage the husband to be is told to love his wife to be 25% as much as he loves himself. The wife to be is told the same thing, and if they think on those things it could be helpful. I doubt that each one could really love the other 100 % of the time; we still live in a present evil world, and other forces come into play. Once married, if it can be detected soon enough when a potential dispute/trouble is about to brew, one of the other may be reminded that "a third party may be present.”
The principalities (Eph 6:12) cause racism, cause hatred, cause wars, turn brother/sister against brother/sister, mate against mate, to continue to tear the family apart, to take anything good of God and turn it into evil. I suppose more could be said. The Bible is full of very helpful advice, but it is not always easy to follow.
Anyway, in answer to your question, Mike, these thoughts have come to mind. You may come up with your own thoughts that may be helpful.
Have a delightful Sabbath,
John
John: God the Father and Jesus Christ really are going to rule this planet for a 1000 years and then loose Satan for awhile (see, he was "subdued" for a 1000 years).
Looking at the events over there now. I can see how Christianity is surpasses Judaism.
What happened to love your enemies? Or even love your brother.yes John, many people talk about that feast in Tucson AZ.
Anon, Friday, October 13, 2023 at 8:14:00 PM PDT, said:
"...John: God the Father and Jesus Christ really are going to rule this planet for a 1000 years and then loose Satan for awhile (see, he was "subdued" for a 1000 years).
******
Anon, the last enemy is death, which is part of the "all enemies."
Your reasoning is interesting, though. Have you ever considered the following verse?
Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Jesus Christ was the first member of God's Church. He was murdered and dead for 3 days and 3 nights. Did the gates of hell prevail against God's Church, or not?
When you see Jesus reigning on earth at the beginning of your 1,000 year (MMM), please send us an email. If that happens, I will apologize...even repent/change my thinking.
Time will tell...
John
P.S. For your 1,000 years you may want to consider the following verse, which has still not been fulfilled:
Amos 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find [it]."
What? God is not judging humanity at this time? Then why does Bob T. use scare tactics every year at feasttime and tell folks, "ATTEND THE (ccog) FEAST, & do NOT make excuses"...with vague similarity to Dave Pack's "some of you may not get home if you leave early"
Anon, Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 11:51:00 AM PDT, said:
"...What? God is not judging humanity at this time? Then why does Bob T. use scare tactics every year at feasttime and tell folks, "ATTEND THE (ccog) FEAST, & do NOT make excuses"...with vague similarity to Dave Pack's "some of you may not get home if you leave early"..."
******
Anon, you asked:
"...God is not judging humanity at this time?..."
It's probably because within God's Plan of salvation for humanity, God is busy reconciling humanity of this present evil world:
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Cor 5:19
Most of the hirelings of this world like to kid themselves into thinking that God is out there someplace reconciling their own butts, and the rest of the world? Go to hell!
Also, Jesus said He didn't judge after the flesh (Remember, Paul said Eph 6:12?).
"Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man." John 8:15
Also, Jesus tells us this:
"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." John 12:47
Yes, God is reconciling the world.
You also mused: "...Then why does Bob T. use scare tactics every year at feasttime and tell folks, "ATTEND THE (ccog) FEAST, & do NOT make excuses"...with vague similarity to Dave Pack's "some of you may not get home if you leave early"..."
I suspect Bob T, like Pack, and numerous hirelings of the former WCG, may be driven by another spirit (2 Tim 2:26; James 4:5; 1 John 4:6) to preach another Jesus and a false gospel (one not of God reconciling anyone), plus they learned very well how to impose Satan's fear religion on others.
Bob T, Dave Pack, along with those other hirelings (2 Cor 11:13-15; Matthew 23:35), like modern-day Pharisees, of the former WCG cannot choose to stop sinning for the rest of their lives and make it daily stick, and finally they will pay the wages for the sins in their individual lives: with their own deaths (Romans 6:23). They strive to impose God's law on us/others, when God does no such thing. None of them can meet the prerequisites and requirements that they impose on others so as to qualify for something, and make the law a burden like a yoke to us. They will all eventually die? How do we know? They must pay those wages, proving they did not, cannot, could not yield to God daily, 100% of the time, and make it stick.
God has veys to help them false hirelings cooperate, such that eventually they will be humbled to finally believe that God really did reconcile the humanity of the entire present evil world controlled by principalities (Eph 6:12), so much so as to even reconcile their own personal butts. No one is going to earn their way and somehow impress God enough (Romans 7:18; 1 Cor 1:29), but...
Time will tell...
John
I am mostly with you 8:14.
Christ will appear a second time (Heb 9:28) to complete the second half of His prophetic week, (the seventh week of Daniel 9:24-27 - see members.optusnet.com.au/futurewatch/375ecc60.png for a graphic) - both Christ and the Antichrist have a prophetic week with both assassinated during the mid-point of their weeks (cp. Rev 5:6 and 13:3a respectively - note the Greek “spagizo” in both instances for “slain” and “wounded”).
During the first half of Christ’s prophetic week He raised up Israel the Church and in the second half He will raise up Israel the Kingdom. The Millennial temple will also be built so that Christ will have a dwelling presence in it after the completion of the second half of his prophetic week (cp. Acts 2:2 with Eze 43:5).
Christ will not literally be on the earth during the Messianic Age, when Israel will be ruling the world; just as He is not literally on the earth in the Church Age.
Eph 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms
Christ after the first half of his prophetic week ascended to the heaven, specifically the heavenly most holy place; after this second half week he will also ascend to heaven, specifically the heavenlies.
2Sa 5:7 Nevertheless David took the strong hold of Zion: the same is the city of David.
2Sa 5:9a So David dwelt in the fort, and called it the city of David.
“David captures intact a functioning bureaucratic center. This means David need only place his own “civil servants” into a ready-made political structure as he organizes his kingdom” (Andrew E. Hill, 1 & 2 Chronicles, NIVAC, p.200).
Christ and the Saints are going to replace Satan and the demons in the "heavenlies” and rule the earth from there. (Satan is in the pit during this time).
Just as David ‘captured’ the Jebusite stronghold and made it his city; so Christ will ‘capture’ the heavenlies from Satan and the Demons and rule His Kingdom from there.
Da 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Da 10:20 ... and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
Instead of ‘demon’ kings of Persia and Greece there will be ‘saint’ kings of Persia and Greece.
So for me:
Jeremiah 32:38; Ezekiel 37:26-28; Zechariah 2:11-13 occurs before Satan is loosed from the pit.
From Daniel there are only four beasts which span the time from Nebuchadnezzar to the Antichrist (the little horn of Daniel 7:8). The Beast/Antichrist appears on the scene "AFTER" the ten kings (Da 7:24).
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
As mentioned above the Antichrist is assassinated. Before being killed he is the seven head and after he is resurrected he is the eighth.
Peter was the rock on which Jesus built his church - cp. "Peter" being the nearest explicit antecedent to "rock."
And 3 days and 3 nights was a Hebrew idiom which counted parts of days as full days so that Christ died on a Friday afternoon and rose from the dead on a Sunday morning.
“The "three days and three nights" phrase is forced into artificial conformity with current English forms of speech, instead of the common usage of the people living at that time" (Joe Crews, Three Days and Three Nights, amazingfacts.org).
John,
Thank you for your comments/advice. It's painful to be on a different page with one's spouse, but it seems you accept it for what it is and know that without the Lord's direct intervention so it will likely remain...and there's no good in making a federal case out of it in the meantime.
Cults and semi-cults are damaging to relationships primarily because they shut down communication. I'll see if I can come up with some helpful thoughts of my own. Thanks for yours.
John I hope Bob's wife stumbles on what you wrote here & then shows it to her hubby, he might take stock in something that Mrs. T. shows him
Mike, Monday, October 16, 2023 at 9:09:00 AM PDT, wrote:
"Thank you for your comments/advice. It's painful to be on a different page with one's spouse, but it seems you accept it for what it is and know that without the Lord's direct intervention so it will likely remain...and there's no good in making a federal case out of it in the meantime.
Cults and semi-cults are damaging to relationships primarily because they shut down communication. I'll see if I can come up with some helpful thoughts of my own. Thanks for yours."
******
Mike, it's not too painful as I have been where my wife is and I, as a result, have empathy in lieu of pain. She has not been where I've gone. God's Spirit is the biggest helper, comforter, etc. It's just part of life.
Something helpful to know is that a spirit in man exists, which is different from the one that HWA taught us, but James speaks of it:
"Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?" James 4:5
The Apostle Paul understood this, and expressed it in different words (Romans 7:17, 20-21).
He also understood this: "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not."
That spirit of James 4:5 is not the spirit that HWA had in mind when he explained what made humans different from the rest of creation, but it exists within all of us, and it is manifested differently in all of us to one degree or another. It is displayed by negative traits, which are so much easier to spot in others: everyone else, but it is not very easy for the Self to spot it and acknowledge it. Sometimes it smacks us in the face, and we may just continue walking on...into who knows what trouble(s). Sometimes we blame self; sometimes we learn to know a third party may be involved. One way or another we all are destined to learn about good and evil, and eventually learn to hate evil.
Based upon that understanding, it is best not to judge one another. How often are we guilty of doing/saying the same dumb things in our lives? Jesus said: love one another.
That's good advice from one who experienced the suffering that we sometimes go through.
You're doing okay, striving to do the best you can with what you have. Thankfully, none of this will affect the salvation of any of us, but we all will learn a lot...life goes on ...and'
Time will tell...
John
Didn't He say Himself that it was the sign of Jonah when He literally meant 3 literal days & 3 literal nights🛏️🛏️🛏️
Mt 17:23 And they shall kill him, and THE THIRD DAY he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.
Mk 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and AFTER THREE DAYS rise again.
So, literally, was the resurrection on “the third day” or was it “after three days”?
Jordon was a calm spot during that time. Brethren weren't concerned about traveling to that spot. It had been peaceful in Jerusalem when feast goers arrived there. The unsuspected attack struck on the last great day . How were they supposed to know it was going to be dangerous. Even the Israeli government was caught off guard. I believe all brethren might now be back home.
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