Oh, Noes!!!!!!!!! Gary Leonard And The Satanic Hoard On This Blog Are Picking On Me! What Ever Shall I do???????????

 

Ghastly days! Whatever shall I do now that the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel has written another screed about me and the reader/commenters on this blog? The world is a terrible place, and this blog is making the Great Bwana's life a living hell. Who knew?

Anyway, the sun is shining brightly here in Southern CA, and life is good, though apparently not so good in Grover Beach, CA, where God's most incredible COG leader to ever walk this green earth channel's dreams and visions from some unknown entity he deems worthy of telling people about. 

The entity fed this hilarious headline into Bob's amazing brain early this morning, "Things Satan does not want you to believe are not believed by all but the Philadelphian remnant"

In his mind, big ol'meanie Satan is on the warpath against him and his perfect little church, the best embodiment of 1st-century Christianity the world has ever seen. The creature he calls "satan" has apparently taken over the minds of everyone on this blog and has directly mind-melded with us to pick on Bobby and his amazing "work".

Satan does not want people to be in the Kingdom of God. He does not want Matthew 24:14 since it will be a countdown for his end. 

 

He wants to dissuade you and others from being in that Kingdom or supporting the most faithful proclamation work. 

 

How does he do that? 

 

Through lies and false witnesses.

This entity he calls "satan" is out to get everyone, including everyone on this blog, though apparently it has already won that battle. At least in his mind's eye.

While you might think you are immune to Satan, remember that the New Testament teaches:

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, (1 Peter 5:8-9) 

 

Satan does not want you to truly have faith in God or His word.

I think the verse he quotes above encapsulates why we do this blog. The Church of God is filled with devouring lions seeking to destroy all they come into contact with through heretical doctrine and outright drivel they deem God-inspired.

Now the fun begins:

...throughout history, God’s true church has been spoken against in many places. Notice confirmation of that as far back as the Book of Acts where the true church is called “this sect”:

22 … concerning this sect, we know that it is spoken against everywhere. (Acts 28:22) 

 

Some of Satan’s allies at Banned by HWA website and other places continue to post lies about those of us in Continuing Church of God (CCOG) as well as other COGs. 

 

Yes, some who claimed to be with us in the old Worldwide Church of God, as well as some who claimed to be with us in the CCOG have turned aside and became false accusers. The Apostle John ran into similar issues as he wrote:

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. (1 John 2:19) 

Bwana Bob does not understand that many of us here"went out" from the lies and falsehoods of heretical doctrines and found true rest in the One that the church claimed it was following. The ministry in the Church of God was a cesspool of bad actors - though I will say there were a lot of good men who tried to do their best over the decades and who were actual agents of grace to church members. Sadly, most of those men were gradually beaten down or driven out by the corrupt leadership over them. There was nothing godly about church leadership.

That is consistent with Satan’s hope as he is called the “accuser of the brethren” which he does do day and night (Revelation 12:10), so it is no great surprise if his lying human assistants spread lies regularly. 

 

If you are not part of a COG (Church of God), Satan hopes you will dismiss the true Christian faith as a false cult–this is something he and his followers have done throughout history.

The true Christian faith is NOT to be found in the misnamed "continuing" Church of God. It isn't there and never will be until Bob Thiel repents of his lies and delusions of grandeur. 

Jesus, Himself, said that people who claimed to believe the Bible often denounced God’s prophets:

11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (Matthew 5:11-12) 

Bob, you are NOT a prophet of God. You have never been one and never will be one. That is an immutable fact.  

Notice the following evil that was posted at Banned by HWA:

Bob Thiel has lied to us from day one about God speaking to him in dreams, that he is the only COG doing the work, that he is a prophet, that he is Elisha, Elijah, Zephaniah, Joshua, and many other appropriated personalities (about the only thing left to call himself is Legion). Has Bob ever apologized and will he EVErRapologize for lying to us? 

 

Now the above is false witness from Gary Leonard (the webmaster of the above site and the one who posted that). 

You are gaslighting your naive followers if you deny you have appropriated the names and characteristics of the prophets mentioned above and others where you claim you are the modern-day reincarnation. You are not even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence with any of them

Satan hopes you will believe lies. 

 

One of the Ten Commandments is, “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” (Exodus 20:16). 

 

Yet repeatedly, Gary Leonard has borne false witness. 

 

There is no point in me, Bob Thiel, apologizing for telling the truth.

And yet, here you are, doing it once AGAIN! 

The Bible, which the Great Bwana leads us to believe he thoroughly believes in, has this to say about the lying Church of God false leaders and false prophets:

“Beware of the false prophets, [teachers] who come to you dressed as sheep [appearing gentle and innocent], but inwardly are ravenous wolves. Matt 7:15 Amplified Bible

“Be wary of false preachers who smile a lot, dripping with practiced sincerity. Chances are they are out to rip you off some way or other. Don’t be impressed with charisma; look for character. Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned. Matt 7: 15-16 Message Bible

Notice the following gaslighting by how he deviously uses certain words to dance around what he really believes:

The second is that I never said I or the CCOG were the only ones doing the work. What I have said is that the CCOG best represents that Philadelphia remnant and that we are leading the final phase of the work. 

 

Gary Leonard and those who believe his lies need to repent.

Of all the things I may have to repent of, calling you out as a liar and false prophet is NOT one of them and NEVER will be. You are exactly like Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry, who are also proven liars and false prophets.

He continues on trotting out Gaylyn Bonjour as legitimizing his prophethood status by reportedly asking God to give Bob a double blessing and then has this to say:

And that includes what I have written about him, dreams, and the prophet matter. My teaching about what happened is accurate and not false. I have not lied about this. 

 

The Book of Proverbs teaches:

16 The lazy man is wiser in his own eyes

Than seven men who can answer sensibly. (Proverbs 26:16) 

 

Satan hopes that YOU will be lazy and not believe. Satan hopes YOU will not take the time to check out the truth on this. Satan does NOT want YOU to accept that God really has been providing and fulfilling dreams in the 21st century.

John D had this to say about you, Bob Thiel, on the Church of God Perspective blog:

Bob Thiel wants to pick on anyone and everyone in order to justify his own beliefs and vaunted ego. However, the fact is that he is a liar, he does not care for the truth, or accuracy for that matter, and he constantly compares himself to others.

12 We don’t dare class or compare ourselves with some of the people who advertise themselves. In measuring themselves against each other and comparing themselves with each other, they are simply stupid.

~ 2Co 10:12 (CJB)  

 

Bob Thiel Is Still a Liar and False Prophet

John D also had this to say about you:

Lies of the Prophet 

 

I’ve already discussed more than once the big one. If he is a prophet, then what is his message? A prophet, after all, is one who utters or speaks for God. So, let’s see what the message is! Lay out your “prophecies”, Dr Bob, so that those with discernment can see! 

 

All along, his “credentials” have been exaggerations of different events. For example, he makes a big deal of being anointed, but he was anointed for something completely different, even he has admitted before. He makes a big deal of the anointing minister calling for a “double portion” of God’s Spirit. 

 

OK, but so what? If I am anointed for a head cold, can I really take that as a validation of something completely unrelated? Even if the one doing the anointing has no clue about the matter? Does God really work that way? 

 

Well, now he is claiming to be “ordained”. The lid is off, folks! He has clearly crossed the boundary of stepping on the line between truth and fiction and proclaimed a complete lie! 

 

No one has ordained you, Dr. Bob. Get over yourself! 

 

In fact, how many prophets in the Bible were ever ordained? Frankly, I can only think of one, Elisha, who is also the one whom Thiel likes to compare himself with. Even then, it was a prophet ordaining a prophet, not a priest or even a Levite! 

 

There is a good reason for that, in fact. Prophets always came from outside of the system because their primary function was to sound a warning when the system itself broke down. The civil government was supposed to keep the religious order in check, and vice versa. When both failed, God sent prophets to warn and rebuke. 

 

As a consequence, prophets worked outside of the system. They did not break away and create their own country or their own organization for worship. Would You Hire These Liars to Teach Your Children? Some people obviously worship a “god” who approves of liars.

Wallace Smith, a minister in the Living Church of God had this to say about you, Bob:

Perhaps it should be said that I am aware of individuals who claim “dreams” which they hope to convince others are such “special revelations.” Of course, we are to test such things against other criteria and, again, all I have seen continually fall short when they are examined. (That, or the claim is beyond examination, making it unable to be tested.) 

 

As one example, I’ve heard of one who claims that he dreamed God would exalt him above the leaders of the Church when he, supposedly, had no beef against them at that time. Yet, years ago, at the very time this fellow claims he had the dream, this same individual personally expressed to me his beef and his intense frustration that Church leaders and the Council of Elders did not accept his interpretations of prophecy. Such a dream during such days strikes me not so much as prophetic as very, very human. (I should add that I mentioned to him at the time my concern for his attitude about the Church’s leadership, and maybe I could have done more to help him see it. I don’t know.) About that same time Mr. Dibar Apartian warned me over lunch, as did others, that the fellow apparently thought himself a prophet, many years before he left the Church and began claiming to be just that. Again, for such a one such “dreams” of personal glory seem easy to imagine — given simple human nature, it would almost be surprising if there weren’t such dreams accompanying such attitudes and personal ideas. Even ignoring other factors (and, wow, in that case are there “other factors”) that make it all the more clear, I’m sorry but such “revelations” are simply not convincing, and don’t even come close to fitting Mr. Armstrong’s clear, biblically informed definition.  Plain truth about “Prophets” from Herbert W. Armstrong

The very church that Bob Thiel apostatized from knows him to be a false prophet and a liar. That's pretty damning! Even worse for Bob,  Dibar Apartian knew Bob was not a prophet, and yet Bob claims Apartian fully endorsed him as a prophet. Bob continues to be a liar. 

Wallace Smith also says this in another article:

"Other titles have come and gone… Various Self-Appointed Prophets and Luminaries of Imagined & Alternate Realities (L.I.A.R.s) have declared or implied that they have been given the title of or are the prophesied individual Elijah, Elisha, Zerubabbel (son of Shealtiel, though I wonder why one prefers the spelling in the Catholic Douay Rheims: “Salathiel”; interesting, that), Joshua, et al. Maybe you have heard a title I haven’t. If so, I’m not sure I want to know… 

 

That none of these who consider themselves Prophets actually are any of these people or have any right to any sort of title is one thing. But the point of post (which I thought I would never get to!) is that it is yet another technique and not just a personal obsession. Sure, it generally represents a delusionary mindset and an incredible ego, but it also adds a level of “excitement” to the Self-Appointed One’s self-appointed “ministry”: Wow, this is a guy spoken of in the Bible, itself! More importantly, it has the potential to lend an authority to the individual’s words that neither the individual nor the words have earned."

And a little later, this: 

"It is not that there are no titles in the Bible and it is not that the Bible cannot make a claim about an individual in our day. It certainly can and it certainly does. But how terribly badly some lust after being such an individual! In some cases they must search the Scriptures seeking out what they can apply to themselves. In other cases, they simply seem to have an ego and pride that the devil can take advantage of, “helping” them to “see” themselves in God’s own words (and in some cases, in the words of heathen “prophecies,” as well) over time. 

 

It is a useful technique for Non-Prophets because increasing their credibility—being taken seriously—is vitally important to them. However, they have not earned the sort of credibility that justifies their self-declared “Prophet” status. Consequently, they must seek out other sources of credibility that can give them a short cut. For instance, it would be difficult to earn the sort of credibility the Two Witnesses will eventually have when God empowers them (cf. Rev. 11:3). Clearly, Revelation says the Two Witnesses are a couple of fellow who should be listened to." 

 

"Not all Non-Prophets feel the need to take a title on themselves, to be sure (I won’t speak to the temptation they may have to do so, as I do not know) as it takes a really special level of self-delusion (or, on the flip side of the coin, a special level of confidence in one’s powers of con-artistry). Nevertheless, it is a technique that is on display out there in the Parade of Self-Appointed Ones time continues to present to us."  Techniques of Non-Prophets: Got Me a Title!

Bob's hilarious screed continues on about how we mock his dreams and revelations he channels from the entity he follows and then says this:

Those who believe the false assertions at the Banned by HWA website are among those that love and practices lies. 

 

Those who do so should repent. 

 

Jesus taught:

44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. (Matthew 5:44-45) 

 

Gary Leonard remains in my prayers.

Anyway, what Satan continues to hope is that you will believe lies, not believe that God actually has sent fulfilled dreams to those in the Continuing Church of God, and that you will not look into the details to see if it is so–like the Bereans of old did in Acts 17:10-11. 

 

If you are not part of CCOG, Satan wants you to stay away from it. 

 

He does not want you to be dedicated or noble enough to see if what is written here (and in the related links) is really true.

Heck, even God wants you to stay away from the improperly named "continuing" Church of God. 

I have no fear of the god that Bob Thiel follows. We will continue to call him out as the liar and false prophet that he is.

Cheers

 

 

 

Brainwashed by Gerald Flurry

 

names deleted to prevent the embarrassment of a complete lack of common sense.

Imagine being this brainwashed...

Dave Pack: Birthday Present…Truth

 

Birthday Present…Truth

David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God dismantled another legacy doctrine of the Worldwide Church of God by sanctioning the celebration of birthdays. While teaching the “present truth” that observing birthdays is not inherently evil after all, the Pastor General shined another spotlight on the rebellion and monumental hypocrisy of Herbert W. Armstrong.

For years, the Pastor General of the Worldwide Church of God had not-so-secretly honored his mother by sending her roses on her birthday in direct violation of a doctrinal understanding enforced by lesser “ministurds” for decades. (Thank you for that phrase, Dennis.)

The moral of the story: If you are “low key” about your covert defiance of church doctrines and happen to be highest in the food chain of your dogmatic religious organization, you can get away with just about anything. David C. Pack has fully embraced this “grand pattern” and plans to preserve it until he retires into the grave.

Beginning with “The Greatest Unending Story! (Parts 552 & 553)” on January 11, 2025, Dave eased into dissolving the long-held belief that Jesus Christ was born on the Feast of Trumpets in the fall. It was no coincidence that the discovery of this mystery birthday ties directly into the timing of the 1335 and the Day of the Lord 1290 of the book of Daniel, which ushers the arrival of the Kingdom of God…just over the horizon.

Jesus Christ was born on Abib 1
The 1335 begins on February 12, 2025
Not January 29
The Day of the Lord begins on March 29

What was sin yesterday is righteousness today.

It was a tremendous relief for members who no longer needed to hide their interactions with relatives around birthdays. The guilt from eating a bite of cake or paranoia around being spotted holding a present has been evaporated. Repentance is no longer required after saying “Happy Birthday.”

Birthdays have come to The Restored Church of God.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Dave has grossly misunderstood the 2 Peter 1:12 term “present truth” and uses it as his Get Out of Jail Free Cardwhenever he wants to invoke or revoke an established church doctrine. The way he understood something yesterday is different from today, but both adherences were correct at the time. This invalidates the concept of “error” from church vocabulary.

Dave's technique is to read the same ambiguous verses he taught for decades and reverse the logic to fit his current narrative.

·      None of Job’s children died on a birthday. Only the servants did.

·      Pharaoh killing the baker on his birthday “does not taint” them.

·      John the Baptist's death on Herod's birthday is just incidental.

·      Ecclesiastes 7:1, "the day of death than the day of one's birth," was misunderstood. It does not mean birthdays are inherently evil.

·      Acknowledging a birthday is not the same as observing a pagan custom.

I already knew this, and so did many who cycled through RCG. Regardless of the evidential legitimacy of enforced doctrines, a member must comply, or they are labeled self-willed, arrogant, and rebellious.

The standard ministerial response was:

“Oh, you think you know better than the ministers of Jesus Christ who were ordained and received an extra portion of the Holy Spirit? God opened your eyes and not theirs because you’re so special? God defied His own government structure by revealing to a lay member what He has withheld from the only living apostle?”

As of Part 552…apparently so.

Even when I was a zealous member of The Restored Church of God, I knew their teachings about birthdays being evil were thin and unbiblical. Man, they had to reach. Even the World to Come episode that addressed this was based on inductive reasoning, not clear Bible verses.

RCG has already begun washing their hands of the sin of the sin of birthdays. You will no longer find the four-page article “Are Birthday Celebrations Christian?” once listed on their website, but you can visit the Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine to see it in its former glory. Or download a PDF copy HERE.

The 2017 Pillar issue featuring the article “What’s So Bad About Birthdays?” is available for download.

Reading their now-redacted materials with a “birthday present truth” perspective exposes how flimsy some RCG doctrines can be because they were established on human steam, not clear commands of God. The “because I say so” theology lives on.

If there ever was a long-standing doctrine that lacked power and clarity, it was what WCG and RCG taught about God hating birthdays. The rationale in this Real Truth article from 2014 is some of the weakest you will find, yet it was compelled upon members anyway.

_____________________________________________________________________________________ 

Part 552 – January 11, 2025
@ 27:46 Now, that’s a shocking thing to understand. And the thing it does [chuckles] it makes Mr. Armstrong look like he was doing something RIGHT when he honored his mother on her birthday for decades of his life.

The unrecognized implication is that Herbie was knowingly doing something WRONG, and Dave was just fine with that. According to David C. Pack, "The greatest servant I ever knew" was a blatant hypocrite and willful authoritarian who kept his defiance “low key.”

The religious apple does not fall far from the corrupted tree.

Herbert W. Armstrong. Do as I say, not as I do.™

Despite granting liberty to the birthday captives, Dave pled for moderation.

@ 48:39 My purpose is not to spell out what we can do on birthdays. Clearly, were time to go on, I would address that.

@ 48:50 But let’s not have what I call a “pepperoni pizza moment.” …Don’t go, “Oh, boy!” You know, over the next few weeks, please don’t go off half-cocked and do something. You know, throw some big party. Don’t do that. Wait. Show restraint.

Dave wants the brethren to show restraint after decades of damaging experiences with their families around birthdays. Ask anyone freed from RCG about the uncomfortable situations they found themselves in when close family members begged them to be a part of a birthday celebration.

Dave is doctrinal Karate-Do-Yes and Karate-Do-No at the same time. This feels awfully familiar to their New Moon observances, which still have that trumpet making an uncertain sound.

@ 1:38:15 …but it duddn't mean that gifts couldn't be given on birthdays. Or that they should be. So, that’s why I say we gotta be careful.

Countless difficulties were needlessly created because members tried to obey the anti-birthday command that they were force-fed while also trying to counter-balance the perspective they were in a repressive cult. We all walked that narrow line at some point, whether it was attending a party but not eating the cake or standing silently while everyone else gleefully sang, “Happy Birthday.”

This now-defunct doctrine caused grief and pain for children, whether they were members or not. It is heart-wrenching for a parent to explain to their small child that they can only observe an activity but not participate.

My buddy Peter in Canada still gets hot under the collar when you mention the harm of RCG’s birthday doctrine. He is justly angry for what he allowed RCG to put his children through.

Rejecting birthdays sparked tension between spouses. Emotionally separated parents from children. This created an unnecessary resentment towards all religious organizations and resulted in the opposite of “letting your light shine.” Instead of letting our works carry a good name, Christianity was further despised. Thanks a lot, Herbie.

This doctrinal flip-flop will not heal the trauma of generations nor erase the personal horror stories many endured in the name of “obeying God.” According to David C. Pack, all that family suffering was in vain.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Birthdays are now acceptable in The Restored Church of God because determining the day of Jesus Christ's birth is essential to knowing when the 1335 of Daniel would begin 45 days before that.

Abib 1 [1290] begins at sunset on March 29.
Shevat 15 [1335] begins at sunset on February 12.

Dave needed one birthday to matter, so he made it happen.

@ 1:17:20 If that could be the birthday of Christ, you you almost find yourself asking, “Does the Millennium begin on Christ’s birthday? Abib 1 [February 12, 2025]?" I mean, it's starting to look suspicious, but we've gotta prove it.

@ 1:30:55 And when that week [70 Weeks Prophecy] is over, when we get to the next Abib 1 on His Day, which would be kept forever, every year forever, on His Day, the Day of Christ. If you can prove Abib 1, we’re gonna celebrate His birthday every day forever. We won’t call it a birthday party, but it’d be His birthday. So, I mean, we’ll let God tell us what it was.

Part 553 – January 11, 2025
@ 05:49 So, Christmas is a counterfeit birthday. A counterfeit gift giving in the wrong time to the wrong Jesus, by the way. So, it’s fitting that Another Jesus would be born at another time.

Just like David C. Pack is a counterfeit apostle, prophet, teacher, shepherd, and minister.

@ 06:18 So, God says I hate your star. Okay? Now, nothing wrong with a star. God showed a star when when Christ was born. Nothing wrong with a star. “I hate YOUR star.” [chuckles]

Dave slipped into another doctrinal moonwalk without the same fanfare he used to enact it. He taught in 2023 that stars were evil. But today, not so much.

The same weak strategy to promote the evils of birthdays is employed to defuse them.

@ 07:11 So, you can begin to think of things in a certain light, and this is a whole different way of thinking. You’ll begin to work off of these things in your mind. There nothing wrong with this.

@ 21:04 On Abib 1, in this great Day of the Lord, you could have all kinds of people saying, “Happy Birthday and Happy New Year.” Don’t say “Merry Christmas.” [laughs] Okay?

@ 22:24 It’s not Trumpets. We’re trapped in Trumpets. And God know that Herbert Armstrong, this great servant, he did [chuckles] he did what he was supposta do, he had the truths of God right. In fac–in some ways, he was a little ahead of his time because he did what he as he honored his mother and didn’t stand in the way of other people.

When Herbert W. Armstrong played down his hypocrisy, he posthumously exercised premature righteousness, not arrogant stubbornness. Maybe all the members of The Restored Church of God should roll the same dice by picking their least favorite doctrine and putting that philosophy into practice.

@ 22:47 [HWA] Just said keep it low-key. Pretty much everybody [in WCG] did and and and most did nothing at all.

Brethren of The Restored Church of God, please hear your Pastor General. David C. Pack just told you that if you are going to willfully sin, just keep it low-key. That is totally fine.

What a dismal swamp of confused doctrines that spiritually bankrupt organization teaches.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Knowing the birthday of Jesus Christ caused all the mystery pieces to fall into place, and David C. Pack will finally be proven to be a true servant of God on February 12, 2025.

@ 38:01 So, you you’re looking at February 12^th. If there’s some other way, I don’t know how to do it, brethren. I’m I’ve tried my heart out.

@ 38:59 Remember that God puts Elijah in charge, typed by Jeremiah, at the “new year of trees.” Well, guess what? That is the 15^th, the 15^th of Shevat. 15^th of Shevat.

@ 53:15 A Trumpets Day of the Lord, Christ’s birthday in the fall, and the 1335 days that was related to that since they did not see they [WCG] did not see that. Worldwide did not see this First Kingdom. All of that collapsed together now. It’s over.

It is hard to fathom that The Restored Church of God is not yet over. And yet, it still limps along.

During “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 554)” on January 18, 2025, Dave visited the idea of moving The Last Great Day again. In 2023, he attempted “The Last Great Moving Day” by declaring it needed to shift from the fall to the end of the Days of Unleavened Bread. That idea cooled faster than his coffee. 

During Part 554, Dave plucked out that holy day and placed it onto Abib 1 to fit the rest of his theological fantasy because…why not?

Part 554 – January 18, 2025
@ 21:26 So, it makes ya suspicious. Is the Last Great Day gonna shift?

@ 21:43 Is the Last Great Day portable?

"The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 555)" given on January 25, 2025, was a colossal nothingburger. Yawn. As a follow-up, Dave was a no-show on Wednesday’s New Moon despite his assurances he would speak. You cannot trust the words of David C. Pack. He continuously proves that.

The entire church system HWA constructed continues to be an unreliable mess, and David C. Pack persists in championing that filthy banner of malarkey.

Birthdays are now sanctioned in The Restored Church of God, but that is only a present…truth.

Marc Cebrian

See: Birthday Present…Truth

On Not Being Perfect: Against the Armstrongist Idea of Becoming God-as-God-is-God

 

A Depiction of Mathematical Perfection

(Fair Use)

On Not Being Perfect 

Against the Armstrongist Idea of Becoming God-as-God-is-God

By Scout

 

My wife expects me to be perfect.  But she knows I am not God.  Talk about dissonance.  God is almighty and, by comparison, it’s a wonder I can function at all.  Only God is perfect and always will be.  He is absolute and cannot be improved upon. We are imperfect and always will be.  We will always be growing and improving (Philippians 3:13). A revealing analogy for this is any geometric figure.   A cube is pictured above.  It is a concept from geometry which, as other fields of mathematics, is concerned with the ideal.  When I say a geometric cube is a “concept”, I mean it can exist as a perfect shape in our minds.  But we do not find this perfect shape in nature.   Take iron pyrite, for instance.

When iron pyrite crystalizes, it forms a cube.  But any pyrite cube, even under the best of conditions for formation, is not perfect.  It only looks perfect to us at our natural viewing resolution.  In reality, its defining lines are formed of an arrangement of molecules of iron sulfide.  In geometry, ideal lines are defined as having length but no width. We can imagine a geometric line but we cannot draw one. If you could see the edge of the pyrite crystal, where two planes intersect to form a line, it would be ragged row of molecules, not perfect like the ideal geometric line.  God is perfect like the geometric cube in geometry and we are irregular like the cubic pyrite crystal.  

What does the analogy tell us?  There is a category difference between God and us. God is uncreated and absolute.  We are created and relative.  He is perfect but we will always strive to be perfect.   But Jesus said, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”   One of the hallmark principles of the New Testament.  The ultimate stretch goal.  How can we become perfect like God is perfect?  Is Jesus being realistic?  Did the Pharisees, whom Jesus opposed so energetically, have it right – nothing is too extreme.  The term for perfect in Greek is “teleios” and its meaning is close to our word “complete.”  Teleios is related to the Greek word “telos” which means “goal”. Teleios expresses the idea that something has reached its intended goal.  In concept, teleios is like the term “finished product” rather than the philosophical concept of absolute, mathematical perfection.  Be the very best pyrite crystal you can be. 

And Jesus said, “as your Father in heaven.”  We are to reflect God’s perfection.  A pyrite crystal reflects but does not attain to the ideal geometry of a cube. Even in the next life we will be a reflection of God’s perfection like the moon does not generate light but reflects the light of the sun (Revelation speaks of this poetically, “And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God is its light, and its lamp is the Lamb”). If we are not in relationship with God, we will not reflect his perfection but dwell in darkness.   We are contingent and cannot function as independent, self-contained beings, now or ever.  If the sun goes out, the moon will no longer reflect any light. 

Again, Jesus said, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”  Armstrongists see this from an odd, minority perspective.  They see in this statement of Jesus the strange and heady idea that God’s perfection is attainable for them personally.  They can be one day, they believe, God as God is God.  Without a doubt we are to be partakers of the divine nature but there is a great, unsurpassable gulf between being the absolute God and merely a partaker of some of his virtues and capabilities.  Don’t get me wrong.  Being a partaker of the divine nature is the most wonderful destiny that one can imagine.  It transcends our ability to understand it.  It is just not the same as the unreachable and misinformed God-as-God-is-God idea. 

 

Pastoral Note:  I am in no way pastoral in my inclinations but there are some things that are so obvious that even I can discern them.  Perfectionists are the unhappiest people in the world.  They always want perfection, as they define it, and they are consistently and perpetually disappointed. Nothing worldly that you care about is perfect. A rock might be a perfect rock but who cares.  The Pharisees must have been a dour lot, if they really believed in all that compulsive attention to detail.  To teach someone to be a perfectionist without including the necessary concept of grace is to teach someone to be unhappy. Someone said that perfection is the enemy of good.  I agree with that. And I was joking about my wife.  She only expects me to be the amateur that I am.  Mostly.

 

 

Why Do The COG's Continue To Smear Christians While Extolling Themselves As Perfect Versions Of 1st Century Christianity?

1st Century Christianity 

Has there ever been a more perfect Christian Church on earth than the present-day Churches of God who see themselves as exemplary examples of 1st Century Christianity? Truth be told, 1st-century Christians would be shocked and appalled at the examples of modern-day Church of God leaders leading their little flocks. None of them have any idea what it's like to practice original Christianity. Yet, they sure know how to blame and shame Christians outside their insular little circles of self-righteous piety.

A huge majority of 1st Century Christians worshiped in private due to the fear of being executed or tortured. Thousands died in the Colosseum. Others were martyred along roadsides, in their homes, hiding in the hills, and in many other places. Yet, through it all, they persisted. 

Armstrongism has no idea what 1st-century Christians did. Today, it is all a play Mickey Mouse world to them, with made-up visions of how things could have been in their little privileged minds. Not a single COG today has ever been persecuted, though we see martyrs like Bob Thiel claim otherwise. The only "persecution" they may receive is due to their own stupidity or self-important arrogance. It certainly is not for what they claim to believe.

LCG took an interesting news item and made it into a smear job of what they deem as "so-called" Christians 

Christianity in Europe Earlier than Previously Believed: In recent years, a silver amulet or phylactery was discovered in a grave in Germany (LiveScience, December 20, 2024). The grave dates to the middle of the third century AD—about 200 years after the death of Christ and about 100 years before Constantine converted to his own brand of paganized “Christianity.” Inside the amulet was a rolled scroll made of thin, silver foil, which was 3D-scanned to read the contents without damaging it. This revealed an inscription that clearly speaks of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, noting that “every knee bows” to Him. While historians know that it was dangerous to profess such biblical truths at that time in the Roman world, the authors of the article fail to recognize that what passes as modern Christianity was not codified until centuries after the original apostles lived—beginning with the efforts of the Roman Emperor Constantine in the fourth century AD—and that true biblical Christianity is very different! The Christianity apparently professed by the wearer of the phylactery predates the “Christianity” of Constantine, though little detail is revealed in the scroll. All this implies the presence of Christianity in the region much earlier than some previously believed. As the mayor of Frankfurt noted, “The history of Christianity in Frankfurt and far beyond will have to be turned back by around 50 to 100 years.” But why would a believer in Christ be found so far north and outside of the Roman Empire? 

 

The Bible records the travels of true Christians all over the Middle East and into Asia Minor and points north and west. In many cases, they followed migration routes set down in earlier centuries by Israelitish people making their way across Europe and toward the British Isles. The recently discovered amulet lends credence to the extent of these migrations. To learn more about where the descendants of the Israelite people are today, read or listen to The United States and Great Britain in Prophecy. —Scott Winnail and Francine Prater

Adult Sabbath School: The Unteachable Robert Thiel

 

This Posting is for Robert Thiel, only, 

as I am sure he will read it shortly.  

Whatever the context, you Robert, as head of God's one surviving True Church, keep taking Isaiah 28:10 out of it.

On August 31, 2020, you repeat, for the umpteenth time, your mistaken exegesis on how one is to study the Bible. In classic WCG mode, you once again make Isaiah 28:10 mean what it never meant.

Today, and once again, you perpetuate the error...

"The Bible Supports the View that It Tends to Literally Interpret Itself"

Notice what the prophet Isaiah taught:

Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message?…For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little”… But the word of the LORD was to them, “Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little,” (Isaiah 28:9,10, 13 NKJV)." Should you literally believe the Bible?

====================================================

In the past, you complained....

Dennis Diehl, and many others, have ignored and/or despised the following instructions as to how to understand doctrine: 

 

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (Isaiah 28:9-10,)" 

Apostate, former WCG minister, challenges COGwriter’s biblical interpretation methods: Which should you rely on? 

 

It is you, Bob, who ignoring the context and making this mean what it does not.

so once again...

How NOT to Study The Bible
(Or at least which scriptures not to use explaining how)
By The Apostate Former Minister

(Your label Bob)

 

 

Isa 28:10 (KJV) For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little. 

 

 

The above scriptures, very familiar to all COG ministers and members alike, have been misquoted, misused, and misunderstood for decades. Ministers of every denomination quote them when asked "just how should we study the Bible?" It is taken to mean that one studies the Bible line by line, topic by topic, skipping over here and then over there to find similar ideas and phrases that one can simply stitch together and come up with God's eternal truths on all things.

The modern term might be called "Proof Texting". Often it is simply the "hunt and peck" method to showing what you already want to be so is so.

In our common COG experience we have the Dave Packs, Gerald Flurry, Ron Weinland types, along with the bit players in the form of yourself, who employ this tiptoeing through the Bible, "here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept " and coming up with pure trash and self-righteous drivel instructing good men everywhere how to interpret scripture through their mistaken notions about them.

Dave Pack can wander all over the Bible, Old Testament and New and come up with his weird and strange ideas about himself as spoken of by the Prophet Haggai, like anyone ever heard of Haggai, and get members gyrating in their seats. You can spend all day making Bronze Age weather explanations the modern-day ones and tell us it is how God "tries" to get our attention. They all do by looking here a little and there a little, putting line upon line together, and coming up with weird and strange explanations galore.

...they and you are mistaken.

To begin with, Isaiah is written to the drunken priests of Ephraim. I know "context" is not a word most COG ministers are familiar with, but context is important. In verse 7 we see the priests and prophets are being chided, to say the least, for being drunk with beer and wine, whether actually, figuratively or both, befuddled and stumbling while they are seeing visions and making rather important decisions. Not exactly the way to go but with the Assyrians beating on the door, understandable.

 

 

⁷ And these also stagger from wine
    and reel from beer:
Priests and prophets stagger from beer
    and are befuddled with wine;
they reel from beer,
    they stagger when seeing visions,
    they stumble when rendering decisions.
⁸ All the tables are covered with vomit
    and there is not a spot without filth.



 

 

Not a very pleasant sight and the information they come up with is, to both Isaiah and Bible God, puke.

In reality, it is Isaiah mocking these fools with the following which has been taken as "here a little, there a little, line up line, precept upon precept" and how to study the Bible. Some commentators feel this is what the priests are saying to Isaiah for chiding them. They definitely are NOT having a discussion on how to study the scriptures!

9 “Who is it he (Isaiah to the Priests or they to him in scoffing) is trying to teach?

To whom is he explaining his message? to those just taken from the breast?

To children weaned from their milk,

10 For it is:
Do this, do that,
a rule for this, a rule for that[a];
a little here, a little there.”



 

Translation:

Who are you talking to? (Either Isaiah to the drunken priests or they to Isaiah ) Children? You sound like children. (Or Isaiah sounds like a child to them in "Who does he think he is?" mode)
blah, blah, blah, nah nah-nah nah nah, do this, do that, rules here, rules there. Always the rules!

Bible God is mocking these men and accusing them of baby talk. In context, to me and others, it seems more of Isaiah mocking them in their drunken state than they him but either way, it is not a treatise on how to study the Bible. It's an accusing blow out between Isaiah, Bible God, and the Priests with the Assyrians waiting in the wings.

In the original Hebrew, the phrase in Isaiah 28 verses 10 and 13 is: "sav lasav sav lasav, kav lakav kav lakav" It is pure gibberish and akin to our "la la la la" and "blah blah blah." It is a mocking tone imitating the drunken gibberish of the priests and prophets of Ephraim and Judah as Assyria knocks at the door to scrape them off the earth. It might also be that the drunken priests are mocking Isaiah as It is NOT a scripture one should use to teach how to study the Bible that's for SURE!

"You want baby talk? I, the Lord, will give YOU baby talk. Want to make more fun of Isaiah? Get ready for this..."

¹³ So then, the word of the Lord to them will become:
    Do this, do that,
    a rule for this, a rule for that;
    a little here, a little there—
so that as they go they will fall backward;
    they will be injured and snared and captured.

¹⁴ Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scoffers
    who rule this people in Jerusalem. 

 

Translation:

So then mister priest and prophet, you want to make fun of me for warning you? If that's the way you want to be then that's the way the Lord will teach you. Blah...blah...blah...nah nah nah nah nah...do this, do that. You like rules? I got rules! You will be over run by your enemies, you who rule Jerusalem. I will arrange for Assyria and the Babylonians to take you away.

(They would have no matter what, but Israel, being in the way between Africa and Europe, was always going to get overrun by someone. They spent a lot of their time trying to figure out why God was punishing them when in fact they just were in the way to the major nations seeking control as major nations are wont to do.)

 

So, there we have it. Short and simple. The next time you hear a Church of God Minister, Member or any devotee tell you that you study the Bible, "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little," just slap your head and explain it to them.

Isaiah 28:10, in CONTEXT, is Bible God/Isaiah mocking the drunken Priests of Israel (Ephraim) for issuing their rules to the people to "do this, do that" which sounds like baby talk and stupid, being drunk, while the enemies of Israel approach to take them away. It can also be viewed as the drunken priests scoffing at Isaiah first for warning them. Depends on the commentary. It cannot, however, be taken as the premier scripture on how to study the scriptures.

CONTEXT BOB.... It's not about how to study your Bible