It is Appointed Unto All Men Once to
Die....
One of the hallmark traits of the COGs is
that somehow "we" are unique to the history of humans dying. When I was a
pastor, I taught the "we who are alive and remain," concept. It was very
nice knowing that of all the times in history where humans have come and gone by
dying, I was NOT going to have to experience that. Of course, that was
bullshit.
EVERY COG minister teaches and inspires by
telling the faithful that they are unique in the history of mankind and will not
have to die. We live in "awesome" times. We are the special, the
chosen those who will not have to die as billions have before us. We
will be changed, and "in the moment, a twinkling of an eye," shall be
changed.
Of course, Paul was very very wrong.
The Apostle Paul, 2000 years ago, 2000 YEARS!, was wrong. He finally had
to give in to , "I have fought a good fight..." etc, but he was toast. He
had told others to think "time was short," but had to finally admit it
wasn't.
Much of the motivation behind the COG "time
is short," is the absolute fear of death. Everyone dies. If you
agree to show up, you agree to leave. I would love to think that somehow I
was living in a time and in touch in such a way as to never die. I'd love
to think that , "we shall not all die, but we all shall change, in a moment, in
a twinking of the eye.." but, alas, we do all die.
The idea that humans can know the
future is terribly flawed. Prophecy makes us feel as if we are special and
not subject to the common fate of all those before us. The COG guru's
teach as if they will not die and will live over into some kind of amazing
change not common to men. But they are wrong.
Roderick C Meredith will die before Jesus
returns. David C Pack, will die before Jesus return. Gerald Flurry
will die before Jesus returns. Joseph Tkach will die before Jesus
returns. Ron Weinland will die before Jesus returns. We ALL will die
as it is the nature of agreeing to show up!
In hindsite, I realize I wanted to be
special. I wanted to be excluded from the common experience of all human
beings before me. I wanted to feel special as to being called of
God. I wanted to feel that I was among those that would not die but would
be "changed." The reality is that no one is special and that all of
us will die.
How motivational is the idea that "you
won't die as others," But it is a lie. The Apostle Paul spent a few
years thinking he was special in this regard. He said, "we who are alive
shall be changed," yet ultimately had to admit he was wrong. He finally
had to admit he had fought a good fight, finished his course and was going to
die.
Dying sucks. But it is what ALL
humans experience. There is no way out of this biological demise.
Cells can only replicate so many times and old age is a function of the failure
of cells to do this efficiently. All life form get about the the same
number or breaths. A mouse lives about 3 years and breathes about the same
number of times as a human does in 70 years. An elephant that live 125
years breathes about the same number of times as a human at 70 years. Life
and cells last only so long.
So give up the idea that some COG minister
can get you out of this experience. Dying is good for our soul. We
are not, then we are, then we are not. That's how it works. Fighting
it is futile. Thinking that some church or religious view can free us from
this reality is vain.
Jesus died. The Apostles died.
The Apostle Paul, who thought he'd not die, died. All gurus died. HWA
died. GTA died. Gerald Waterhouse died. Raymond McNair died.
All will die is just how it is.
Learn to live now as now is all you
have. Don't give in to the "just around the corner," or "soon"
types. Reject them. Live your life in the now. Enjoy and learn as you
go.
The whole idea that those in the COG "know"
how it all will be are wrong. They are afraid of dying just like everyone
before them and misuse the Bible to get them off the hook.
NO ONE gets off the hook. Live in the
now. Forget the past and do not speculate into the future for you will
probably be wrong.
Amen.
Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com
DenniscDiehl@aol.com
18 comments:
"Much of the motivation behind the COG "time is short," is the absolute fear of death."
No, it's a marketing tool designed to maximize obedience and cash flow.
Paul Ray
Dennis: Incredible work, per usual. Do keep it up!
"You are a bunch of whiny ass little spoiled brat shit fuckers who have to have your mommies hold your dicks while you pee. Little shit fucking fools is what you are."
LOL! U mad?
Anyway...
Don't let this ancient decree (ascribed to "God" but written by uneducated Christians) that "it is appointed unto all men...to die" limit your imagination. We humans are getting pretty good at figuring life out. A lot of research is being done to determine the causes of aging and to develop therapies to reverse the process. While I agree we should not be afraid of dying (as per Epicurus), and that we should utilize the time we have to the fullest--I also think we shouldn't sell ourselves short with an appeal to ignorance. Just because Yahweh can't achieve effective immortality doesn't mean science can't.
How true, Dennis. We all confidently thought we had it made if something didn't disastrously shorten our lives.
The steady decline of old age has driven home to me the inevitability of my coming demise. Nothing works like it did even a year ago. The cells are old and tired and can only replace themselves so many times. Wounds don't heal as fast anymore.
I'm grateful for each day and try to make the most of each. What lies beyond is a big question, but I suspect it's the darkness of extinction.
Non-existence really isn't a problem to anyone or anything. It's just reality if that's all that awaits. Wishful thinking won't change it.
"You are a bunch of whiny ass little spoiled brat shit fuckers who have to have your mommies hold your dicks while you pee. Little shit fucking fools is what you are."
[I can't help it, this is too ironic to pass up...]
Here you are, "anonymous" (so brave!), telling us we need our "mommies", while incompetently trying to defend your own. You believe everything she tells you, without question or critical examination. You do whatever mommy church tells you to do, suck whichever ministerial dick gets waved in your direction, and you don't even have the balls to use your real name when you come on here to throw your little tantrum...so, tell us again, who is the whiny ass little spoiled brat shit fucker little shit fucking fool? You. That's who. Grow the fuck up and stop sucking on mommy's breast, you clueless sheep.
If I'm honest I have to admit that I came to a sudden realization a few years after my apostasy that I wanted to live forever, that I didn't want to miss out on that perk. It came upon me in a kind of emotional rush and I actually cried.
It wasn't that I didn't want to die. Having expected to live forever and to have all the infinite range of experiences that entails, I was now devoid of any such hope. I felt betrayed: they told me I had all this time, that a living sacrifice now would pay dividends in eternity.
But now there would be no eternity, and I was already 30+ years down a finite life's road with nothing to show for it except broken delusions. I sacrificed my youth and Jesus reneged on his bargain by turning out to be either still dead and long reintegrated into the earthen substrate from which he had arisen--or a complete fabrication. What a cruel joke!
And, sure, science may and probably will work out immortality, eventually. But even if that becomes an accessible technological solution in my lifetime, no amount of age-reversing therapy will return to me the adolescence that was stolen, the sacrificed opportunities offered up like slaughtered sons to Yahweh in a good faith effort to qualify for the position I had been indoctrinated to strive for. A position and an eternity that never will exist.
See, they didn't just take away my immortality, they took away a dream--one that was no less beautiful for being a delusion.
"bah bah bah"
Sorry, I don't speak sheep. Why don't you go back to your herd? The grownups are having a discussion.
"Non-existence really isn't a problem to anyone or anything."
The people who seem to have the most trouble with this concept are those who have been exposed to, or believe wholeheartedly, the notion that there is life after death. Once that idea is implanted, it takes root and feeds off the ego. Only then does one find the concept of no life after death incomprehensible.
I wold like to live on after death (except in the totalitarian World of Tomorrow) in some way but it simply isn't going to happen. I look at death as Chandler put it, The Big Sleep. You can finally rest in the Big Sleep. In The Big Sleep there are no cares, no worries. There is nothing- no, less than nothing for you are no longer aware of there being nothing.
Sounds attractive to me. Why spend eternity as a spirit being ruling the region formerly known as Detroit when you could just sleep?
Paul Ray
I agree Paul, We are the only, far as we know, creatures that are aware of our being aware. This gets us great mileage as humans but we also know it all has an expiration date.
I still have some kind of hope but can't prove it . Metaphysics is interesting but still just another way to hope being aware.
I know that whatever and whenever, this whole experience of being not here, now here and no longer here will seem like 15 minutes...
C'mon. Even if science could achieve some kind of immortality, would we really want it? I mean, everything that makes life worthwhile slowly disappears.
Sex goes bye, bye. Energy and balance go in the tank (the septic tank). We shuffle around and lose our sense of balance and eventually end up depending on walkers and motorized chairs to get us virtually nowhere. That's not "living," in my opinion.
Ending up as an energy field in some blinking box or other scientific gadget isn't very appealing.
Like Dennis, I still find the hope of survival appealing -- like the account of the little girl I saw on TV last night. Her beloved "uncle" suddenly appeared to her in her bedroom, radiant and playful with no hint of his palsy. Her parents derided her in the morning for making up stories or for just having a dream, then received a phone call to inform them of the man's death the night before.
I know. It's anecdotal. That's some astounding anecdote, and there are a lot of such anecdotes out there I find hard to discount. That doesn't mean I'm in danger of returning to the slop of gods and religions.
"Why spend eternity as a spirit being ruling the region formerly known as Detroit when you could just sleep?"
Well, if you were a true believer, you'd prefer to serve the human denizens of what was formerly Detroit, instead of just sleeping. And you'd have this preference for a couple reasons: (1) You care about people, (2) You're genuinely interested in what it would take to do the job. Not everyone who bought into this delusion was a wannabe totalitarian prick. In fact, if you really understood it properly, you couldn't be a totalitarian prick and qualify for the job. Of course, most ministers/prophets/apostles (Armstrong himself included) didn't get that idea to the point of practicing it themselves--their apparent attitude: it's fine for the laity, but not for me, thanks.
"C'mon. Even if science could achieve some kind of immortality, would we really want it? I mean, everything that makes life worthwhile slowly disappears."
Look into it Allen: the therapies being seriously considered have to do with reversing the effects of aging. This isn't science fiction, and it has nothing to do with unlikely dualistic scenarios of "uploading" minds into computers. This is real biological science deriving from the study of senescence. We can already grow functioning organs in labs, beating hearts, skin, even teeth--from stem cells. It's just a matter of time before we figure out how to undo the damage aging accomplishes. It simply doesn't have to be true that everything worthwhile slowly disappears. What if you could get it all back? What if you could live indefinitely in what is effectively a 30 year old body? That would be worth something.
"I know. It's anecdotal. That's some astounding anecdote..."
Not really. We're poor judges of the likeliness of chance events. To us, pattern-seeking creatures, almost every coincidence looks significant. It's this very weakness that bankrolls "prophets".
Good thoughts
Allen
Every human being wants to live on. My parents are 96 and still want to live on and on.
In reality, all humans are hairless apes but we have managed to come up with consciousness. It is the conscioiusness that makes us seek hope outside of death. Consciousness may be a cruel joke on us or a hint of good things to come.
Religion is designed to address the fear of death. That is the bottom line. We dont want to die or not exist anymore. Fundies buy into the knowing of others. They buy into the fears and doctrines of the Apostle Paul or the New Testament. These men don't know. They make mistakes, they have hope and they die.
All humans are an amazing composite of all that went before. we are knowing apes. We are conscious and able to speculate and hope. But still we are evolved apes. This makes fundies nuts.
I've read quite a bit about it, Casey, and I'm all for the scientific advances that might turn back aging, if we advanced apes don't destroy every possibility of such advancement in another civilization destroying binge of warfare and destruction.
I worry a whole lot more about idiots like Ahmadinajad than I ever worried about any Russian during the "cold war." Muslims are as insane as Christians, and he, plus the others there, is a Muslim. Their is no one more dangerous than an insane rligious fanatic.
Anyway, as far as my life being rescued and my youthful dynamism being restored by these possible developments, no chance. I'm Toast. I just hope to get out easily and not too soon. Still a lot of interesting things to do.
"Anyway, as far as my life being rescued and my youthful dynamism being restored by these possible developments, no chance. I'm Toast."
LOL, Yeah, me too, most likely. But it's a nice prospect to think about for subsequent generations.
Another great article Dennis. Funny I was thinking about your subject matter a few days ago.
Richard
"What if you could live indefinitely in what is effectively a 30 year old body? That would be worth something."
Depends on if I was living the life I wanted to live studying and learning the things I wanted to . Eternal life in the flesh could be horrific
Imagine really living 600 or 969 years. No worries, didn't happen. But how many deaths of loved ones. Married 500 years to same person! The sheer weight of memories and experiences would kill you.
We're like wind across the plain and grass swaying in the breeze.
"Depends on if I was living the life I wanted to live studying and learning the things I wanted to ."
Obviously. Now, suppose you were.
"Eternal life in the flesh could be horrific"
Sure, it could be. Or it could be wonderfully euphoric all the time. But most likely it would be just like the experience of a current lifespan: full of challenges, joys and sorrows--just infinitely longer.
"Imagine really living 600 or 969 years. No worries, didn't happen. But how many deaths of loved ones. Married 500 years to same person! The sheer weight of memories and experiences would kill you."
I can imagine all of that. Can you imagine something less pessimistic? (If you don't realize it, this is the test of whether you are being rational about this.)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not on a crusade here. I just find the desire to die someday a little strange. But it seems to be predicated on little more than a fear of the unknown and a suspicion for science.
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