Bob Thiel is back today working over time to justify the various
dreams he and others in his splinter cult have had. He feels that these
dreams are proof that he was destined to start another splinter group and that his god is specifically speaking to him and to none other.
Thiel feels that since this is the end time his god is now speaking through dreams:
Thiel and a woman had the first two dreams and the third was by a black man from Africa.While this may not seem to be a massive ‘earth-shattering’ dream, it is yet additional confirmation that God has used dreams/visions to communicate to at least three individuals who all later became part of the Continuing Church of God. Dreams and visions are something that God intended to use during the end times (cf. Acts 2:17-18; Joel 2:28-29). Elijah apparently once thought that God would be in something dramatic, but then only was in “a still small voice” (1 Kings 19:11-13).
Thiel is also still attempting to use Gaylon Bonjours "double anointing" as proof that he is set apart. Sadly, 99.9999999999999999% of humanity and COG members fail to see that Thiel is a prophet and the rightful heir to the legacy of Herbert Armstrong.Yet, in addition to various facts, the three dreams (including prior ones from myself and from Fesilafai Leaana) look like God was planning on making it more plain for true Philadelphians (who are in various organizations/fellowships) to see that the mantle location had truly changed. The Philadelphian mantle is with the Continuing Church of God.
Thiel is highly disappointed that people do not believe him. He even quotes scripture believing that it applies to his situation. According to Thiel if you are a REAL Christian then you would believe and know that he is without error.The two confirmations of my anointing, plus the three confirmations on the Continuing Church of God coming from dreams were fulfilled have happened. Plus, we teach the truths from the Bible and biblical prophecy. The witness is there for those who are willing to see it. Those who do not know what to do should pray about it.
Then to further shame the nonbelievers Thiel uses more scripture to prove that he has three witnesses to prove he is the one true COG leader and that NO ONE should be questioning himI believe that they are partial confirmations that the Continuing Church of God was to lead (two dreams happened prior to CCOG’s formation), and now is leading, the final phase of the work. The truths that we teach should be accepted as the other proof:
45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. (John 8:45)Believe the truth, at least for the truth’s sake. Christians are to believe and know the truth (1 Timothy 4:3). The truth sets Christians free (John 8:32) from all types of error (including Laodicean ones, cf. Revelation 3:14-22).
Thiel then closes with the following where he has to point out that the world is filled with nonbelievers who will always question.Although some have chosen not to believe all the facts about how and why the Continuing Church of God began, recall that the Bible teaches:
16 ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ (Matthew 18:16)Of course, since Gaylyn Bonjour always freely stated that he did the ‘double-portion’ anointing on me which I reported, there long had been two witnesses to that.
19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses. (1 Timothy 5:19)
The problem with Armstrongism and its false theology is that its members are not capable of discernment. Members have been so conditioned over the decades to never question. If you do you are turning your mind over to Satan and the possibility of committing the unpardonable sin. Just look at Theil's admonitions above. Questioning is NOT an option. Discernment is not allowed.Of course, some will discount dreams and their confirmation as proper proof of anything they do not wish to believe.
Of course, some will discount dreams and their confirmation as proper proof of anything they do not wish to believe. Many want more dramatic signs (Matthew 12:38; 1 Kings 19:11-12), but God does not always do it that way (Matthew 12:39-42; 1 Kings 19:12-14).
Can you believe?
26 comments:
Hey bob, I just had a dream. In my dream you were kissing Meredith's butt. It's gotta be from God!
Meredith was kissing Pack's butt. And Pack was kissing your butt.
From Bob's site:
"Because of false statements made by evangelists in the Living Church of God, repeated promises broken by evangelists in the Living Church of God, LCG evangelists acting as they were above the Bible and not applying Matthew 18, LCG evangelists knowingly distributing error-filled literature demonstrating insufficeint love for the truth, having significant prophetic misunderstandings introduced by LCG evangelists, and a disregard for the final phase of the work by LCG evangelists, it was necessary for Bob Thiel to leave the Living Church of God. Hopefully, that is clear."
On that point Bob is probably right, so we should support his expose of LCG liars. Remember that although Bob is an easier target, LCG is the bigger danger.
If he is a prophet, why isn't he laying down an incredible labyrinth of detailed prophecies, as prophets do? Why would he waste valuable time and words bemoaning what ends up being his own ineffectiveness? Would not effectiveness as a prophet speak more eloquently than an imagined double annointing, or the implications of dreams? WWID? (what would Isaiah do?)
This poor guy is clueless, has no rudder or compass, and appears to be rapidly devolving. In a sense, it is not unlike watching an anorexic becoming horrifyingly emaciated and too ugly to fix one's gaze upon, yet an anorexic who sees him or herself becoming more and more beautiful with each glimpse into the mirror.
Or as the Grateful Dead sang, in "Truckin'", "All a friend can do is say ain't it a shame?"
BB
Overlooked in this Bob Thiel post is his claim that the majority of CCOG members are "black."
I'm guessing that means he has more members in Africa than in the U.S. Is that good for his group "Continuing" or not?
I'm sorry, but Bob is a prophet in exactly the same way that a psychic or an astrologer is a prophet. He's He's not receiving any messages from the other side of "the veil," but is just making shit up. He makes vague statements, and waits until something can misconstrued as a fulfillment of his vague statement. It's called "cold reading." Bob is just a 2-bit magician who only does one trick, does it poorly, and pretends it's not a trick, but "real." Pathetic.
To paraphrase an old joke, sometimes when you see clouds hovering over the skies of Arroyo Grande shaped like the letters P C, it doesn't mean "Preach Christ". It means "practice chiropractic".
BB
Bob Thiel "xplained" to us that: "...The witness is there for those who are willing to see it. Those who do not know what to do should pray about it..."
Bob, your words make God out to be some idiot, who fails over and over again at whatever He strives to accomplish. Bob, you sound a lot like you are God's last resort, but who would want to believe that?
Bob, why are you such a beggar? You're begging all of us to believe what comes off of your tongue, even though we've been told to beware of that tongue:
"Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!" James 3:5
We may admire you in the fact that you have not boasted about great things. However, it appears you are continuing to boast about small, little, things that you turn into great things in your own mind. What a tongue!
You say: "...The witness is there for those who are willing to see it.,,"
You are very much like that emperor that wore no clothes. That emperor wanted everyone to acknowledge him, but he was just plain naked...to those who had the eyes to see.
You further say: "...Those who do not know what to do should pray about it..."
Bob, why would anybody pray about anything relative to what you think about yourself? Prayer isn't going to do a thing.
Besides we know what to do...and that is to stay away from anything associated with the Continuing group.
Just what kind of a prophet are you anyways? You can't even discern what and when the "end times" are.
Well, you did write: "...Dreams and visions are something that God intended to use during the end times (cf. Acts 2:17-18; Joel 2:28-29)..."
Yes, God did intend that, but we're not in those latter days! What does Acts 2 say?
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Do you know what "last" means? It has nothing to do with today!
I suggest you study your Bible more and read what happens over a 1,000 years from today when Satan is loosed out of that bottomless pit and read how that vile, evil, thing again goes out to deceive not just you, but the entire world...now that will be some real "last days" for you.
One would think a real, true, prophet would know when those last days really would occur.
Do you see God's Spirit poured out on people, especially prophets, today? No! No!
Bob what do we see today? We see this:
"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive..." John 14:17
We see, if we have eyes to see, people walking:
"... according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" Eph 2:2
Now, Bob, does that sound anything remotely like God's Spirit being poured out upon ALL FLESH? Of course not...
John
Bob notes:
"Of course, some will discount dreams and their confirmation as proper proof of anything they do not wish to believe."
I note:
"Of course, some will make common dreaming mean what it doesn't mean as proof , to the dreamer, of what they want to believe even if it is not really so."
Too bad there is not a God that actually commuicates in real time, openly, without doubt and cutting out all the middlemen which only add to the confusion that this God is not supposed to be the author of.
As Byker Bob points out, we have a SIGN -- a sure sign! -- that ol' Bitter is NOT who he claims to be.
That sign is . . . all the EFFORT, all the pleading, arguing, and whining he does to TRY to make us believe in him AND . . . how effective, er, INEFFECTIVE it is.
Just SHUT UP, will you, please, Mr. Thiel?
It has and is painful, in a sense, to watch Thiel's spiral into self absorbtion and ego. There is nothing spiritual or appealing about it much less true. He simply craves attention and that delusion of being being more special and chosen than all others. It can't be anything less than a mental illness in a suit.
Between Dave Pack, who sees himself spoken of in scripture and Bob, who sees himself a dreamer of dreams that confirm his delusions, I'd say to these guys to just put that most overstudied and wrongly anal-yzed Book of Books away for a couple years and get your mind and life back.
It has and is painful, in a sense, to watch Thiel's spiral into self absorbtion and ego. There is nothing spiritual or appealing about it much less true. He simply craves attention and that delusion of being being more special and chosen than all others. It can't be anything less than a mental illness in a suit.
Between Dave Pack, who sees himself spoken of in scripture and Bob, who sees himself a dreamer of dreams that confirm his delusions, I'd say to these guys to just put that most overstudied and wrongly anal-yzed Book of Books away for a couple years and get your mind and life back.
Dream.
Let the meaning of that sink in.
Proof? Like, as in, evidence admissible in court?
Confirmation? Is this how you confirm your flight and hotel reservations?
Dream on, Bob.
... The Philadelphian mantle is with the Continuing Church of God.
Oh, reeeeeeaaaaalllly?
Gerald Flurry says thee mantle is with the Philadelphia Church of god.
I had a dream also. It went like this...
In my dream I saw myself and my family sitting patiently hour after hour, week after week, year after year listening intently to HWA ministers, believing and trying to live by every word that proceedeth out of their mouths.
It scared the h--- out of me, and I woke up! THE END.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
The End Time has come and gone already... again.
PS: The sign says STOP!
Say Booby, have you read "The Journey: A History of the Church of God (Seventh Day)" by Robert Coulter yet? Check out Chapter 23. It should give you a whole new perspective.
I know, I know, tonight you're going to pull a "Loma" and dream of Petra as the Place of Safety. Dream this: Lake of Fire; you in it. You'll have plenty of company.
I had a dream last night too!
It said that Bob Thiel's dreams are false.
Since my dream is absolutely true, does this mean I am a "Prophetess"???
The dreams and visions of the CoG preachers have just as much real meaning as the dreams and visions of the bible's "apostles" - none.
Nothing of their visions ever came true and never will because their whole religion was based on a wrong method of interpreting the Septuagint.
It's the same with the likes of Bob Thiel and all the other WCG cult splinters. They can never be right because their whole premise and foundation is wrong.
OK, here's the basic jist of the thing. I don't do this much any more, but I'm going to share what I personally believe, not to brag or condemn, but to provide some contrast.
I believe that it's not so much what others do for me, or the supoort or recognition others provide, but instead, what I can do for them! The object, or game if you prefer, is to leave a beneficial, but largely invisible footprint in doing your good.
Money is a tool, one specific type of resource, but it is not the most important part of the equation. In fact, it is often possible to accomplish monumental good working outside of the monetary side of the equation. Some use money as the ultimate measuring stick, but the best measuring stick is often the experiences we get to collect. Our memories of those, as well as the memories others have of our activities are probably the only thing we get to take with us when it's time to go.
Conspicuous luxury is not the key to being able to accomplish good. In fact, in the eyes of some, holding on to that rather than plowing it back into whatever is your work can cloud the intent of and actually ruin the entire mission. Armani suits, BMWs, nightly dining at Ruth Chris, living in a McMansion, and wearing expensive jewelry all become a liability in that one automatically works mercilessly to keep them rather than focus on doing good. Dockers, dress shirts from Ross, a four year old Chevy, tacos, a normal sized home in a safe neighborhood, and a working watch actually exceed one's bottom line needs, and even make one wealthy as compared to the typical world citizen, and most humans who have lived throughout history.
Nobody likes a whiner, or a bad news Charlie. It has been my experience that the people who are positive in the face of negativity are the people to whom we are drawn, and from whose examples we draw strength. Nobody wants to be around a blamer, who assigns guilt to calamity. Humans are innately introspective, and already blame themselves for things for which they were in no way responsible. The blamers seek to subjugate and enslave, while someone who understands grace and forgiveness can free others from burdens and help them build exemplary strength. In this way, we end bad, downward cycles, and assist people in replacing those with good ones.
If you believe in a loving God, you know instinctively that He will always take care of His own. The place of safety is not something that gets held over you. It's God with you, and in you, wherever you are. The degree of safety is metered out by God Himself, not exploitative human wannabe gatekeepers. Save-your-ass Christianity is not a pure form of "the way". When Jesus said that he who seeks to save his life will lose it, could he have been including the people who responded to an ACOG style end times message, and then live a life of extreme willpower directed towards O/C legalism? We've already seen that tithe-slavery leads to nothing but the decay of an empire. Debris from a shipwreck, regardless of size, is ultimately reclaimed by the oceans.
Armstrongism is fundamentally flawed as a theology if you use Jesus as your standard. But, these fake apostles, and false prophets are practicing a variation of the magical sleight of hand, in which attention and the main action have been switched away from Jesus, and towards HWA. The results and arrogance in that speak for themselves.
BB
Bob woke up the other day and said, "That was one of my BEST dreams!"
When he has dreams he doesn't like, why doesn't he tell us about those dreams?
(This is called "confirmation bias.")
Everyone accuses LCG of false statements but I never see that backed up with references at all.
Where is the proof.
What false statements?
Why don't you go read Bob's rants yourself, Murrieta? He's got pages and pages of ax-grinding to share regarding LCG.
Dr. Martin Luther King once gave a famous speech called, "I have a dream" speech:
"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal.” I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today".
My question to Bob Thiel would be - Was God speaking to Dr. King?
Richard
An LCG member would be more familiar with their church's literature than I, but I suspect they continue to preach the twin lies of British Israelism and German Assyrianism.
Really, that's all the proof of lying a reasonable and objective person should need.
BB
Funny that someone should mention MLK. He was a lot like HWA. I'm not so sure about bob, but bob's hero, hwa, was a fruit.
Four things you didn't know about Martin Luther King
1. His name wasn't Martin Luther. It was Michael. It was decided Martin Luther had a more prominent ring to it, so he went by that. He never legally changed his name. To this day, he lived and died as Michael King.
2. While working on his dissertation for his doctoral degree at Boston University, he heavily plagiarized from another author who had done research on a subject similar to King's. As academic committee later found that over half of King's work was plagiarized, yet would not revoke his doctrine. King was dead by this time, and the committee ruled that revoking the title would serve no purpose. It was also discovered that King's famous I HAVE A DREAM speech was also not his own. He stole it from a sermon by Archibald Carey, a popular black preacher in the 1950's.
3. King was under FBI surveillance for several years (until he died) due to his ties with communist organizations throughout the country. King accepted money from the organizations to fund his movements. In return, King had to appoint communist leaders to run certain districts of his SCLC (Southern Christian Leadership Conference), who then could project their communist ideas to larger audiences. A federal judge in the 60's ruled that the FBI files on King links to communism to remain top-secret until 2027. Senator Jesse Helms appealed to the Supreme Court in 1983 to release the files, so the correct bill in the Senate to create the Martin Luther King Federal Holiday could be abolished. He was denied.
4. One of King's closest friends, Rev. Ralph Abernathy, wrote a book in 1989 in which he talked about King's obsession with white prostitutes. King would often use church donations to have drunken sex parties, where he would hire two to three white prostitutes, occasionally beating them brutally. This has also been reported by the FBI agents who monitored King. King was married with four children.
Martin Luther King Day. A day when this country will come to a screeching halt so we can have parades and memorials to honor this man, a man that most of the world views as a saint for his role in the civil rights movement. No other public holiday in the United States honors a single individual. Of all the great leaders in our Nation's history-none of them have their own holiday. All of our great war heroes share Memorial Day. All of our great presidents share President's Day. Yet king — a man who was a phony, a cheater, a traitor, and a sexual degenerate gets a day of his own.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/history/american/mlking.asp#tfiV5BwGH0Q0EbHw.99
Anonymous 9:01, you have just done a terrible thing! You either copied, or cut and pasted the urban legends from Snopes on Dr. King, but you failed to mention that Snopes went to great lengths to provide explanations for some of the allegations, and to debunk and refute most of the rest.
That is about as intellectually honest as citing Snopes as your authority for the existence of Sasquatch without mentioning that the Snopes investigations proved alleged sightings to be questionable and/or baseless.
What a troll!
BB
Thomas Hobbes on dreams:
"When God speaketh to man, it must be either immediately; or by mediation of another man, to whom he had formerly spoken by himself immediately. How God speaketh to a man immediately, may be understood by those well enough, to whom he hath so spoken; but how the same should be understood by another, is hard, if not impossible to know. For if a man pretend to me, that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce, to oblige me to believe it....To say he hath spoken to him in a Dream, is no more than to say he dreamed that God spake to him; which is not of force to win belief from any man..." [Leviathan, chap. 32.6]
Anonymous said...
Thomas Hobbes on dreams:
"When God speaketh to man, it must be either immediately; or by mediation of another man, to whom he had formerly spoken by himself immediately. How God speaketh to a man immediately, may be understood by those well enough, to whom he hath so spoken; but how the same should be understood by another, is hard, if not impossible to know. For if a man pretend to me, that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce, to oblige me to believe it....To say he hath spoken to him in a Dream, is no more than to say he dreamed that God spake to him; which is not of force to win belief from any man..." [Leviathan, chap. 32.6]
June 23, 2014 at 3:34 AM
That's when this scripture comes in handy...
Matthew 7:16-20
King James Version (KJV)
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
...and not by how much (other people's) money, buildings, planes or silver they own...B.S.(me)
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