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With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
The "best Feast ever" crap is part of what woke me up about Armstronigsm's toxic flaws.
Every year, ministerial suck-ups would tell all who would listen, "This was the best Feast ever!"
As for me, one of my first five Feasts was a truly exceptional cruise on a very nice ship. Another was a tour of Israel.
It's not that I didn't like the Feast in Redding or in Bend, but I heard pretty much the same messages there that I had heard at other Feast sites before them, and the people attending were less excited and maybe even a bit less friendly. The Feasts on the boat and in Israel were experiences of a lifetime, though, and would always stand out as such. Unfortunately, when I told people the truth, "It was a great Feast!" that wasn't enough. By refusing to lie and call a good feast "The best Feast ever" I was seen as less spiritual.
Were these Stepford deacons and members truly brainwashed into thinking that each Feast was better than the last? That would be a damning indictment of WCG and its splinters. Or were these people desperately seeking approval, and willing to lie in order to gain that approval? That, too, would be a damning indictment of the church's culture.
One year, a minister asked me why that year's Feast wasn't the best Feast ever. I decided to be honest and to tell him something like this: "I enjoyed being with brethren, and the activities were mostly enjoyable even though I felt sad that about a third of the brethren couldn't afford to participate because of the ticket prices and I could only donate enough to help a couple of families. I suppose the meal at which the hotel served us pork bacon was a valuable trial and a learning experience, but I felt sorry for the people who ate the stuff. I didn't enjoy the contention between some of the ministers about whether the teens' bathing attire was inappropriate; that seems like something that could have been resolved more privately, maybe even before the Feast. I suppose it is helpful to hear more or less the same sermon topics year after year, but two of the men gave the EXACT SAME sermon this year that they did at last year's Feast, which was disappointing. All in all, it was a good opportunity to learn and to grow."
For an objective assessment like the above, I was deemed to be "in a bad attitude."
Old-timers in the ACOGs remember when a Feast site with 1,000 attending was considered small, and most at some point attended at least a few Feasts with more than 5,000 in attendance. Why wouldn't you be depressed to see your church declining in membership and relevance?
The WCG splinters offer a near-perfect illustration of "sunk cost" theory, or escalation of commitment, in which people invest so much in an idea or a group that they refuse to change their behavior or allegiance, since doing so would be an admission that they made a costly mistake.
Anonymous said... Old-timers in the ACOGs remember when a Feast site with 1,000 attending was considered small, and most at some point attended at least a few Feasts with more than 5,000 in attendance. Why wouldn't you be depressed to see your church declining in membership and relevance?
My Dad didn't sign his letter to Joe Tkach Sr about the destruction of the church as "M.T. Hall" for nothing. As I watched the Tkaches destroy my own congregation over a few short years, being able to do nothing about it, from 450 to 16 to nothing was certainly a part of my concluding what a farce it all was and began to readdress the theological and historical questions that I had put away in my head over the years.
It was the worst of times...it was the worst of times and fundamentally changed me.
These platitudes of "how to" do not address the emotions people feel . They seek to simply encourage one to "not feel that way." It's like telling that one that "God won't give you more than you can bare" when your child commits suicide as I have sat through some with. It's simply not true and not helpful. As one person told me when her only child committed suicide, "Jesus death was merely a weekend inconvenience and he and his father knew he'd be back in just three days better than ever....my daughter is dead. Shouldn't a sacrifice stay dead?" Go ahead and address that one with platitudes such as "she is in a better place" or "you'll see her again someday"
Happiness, contentment and peace is an inside job. If you leave it to others they can deprive you of it instantly. That's not living or being authentic.
I well remember the pre feast hype that we were subjected to every year, and I could barely stand reading the annual GN festival issue that was full of how tos that covered every conceivable aspect of the FOT. To me even then, this was indoctrination, and I ignored practically all of it. Our assigned feast site was Regina Saskatchewan, which wasn't the most exotic place in the world, especially in October when sometimes the snow would fall. I was single at the time, and opted for exotic tropical sites as I was a certified scuba diver, and the FOT became an excuse for a dive trip. I did manage to attend every morning service however (wish now that I didn't), but I was on the dive boat that afternoon! I never did kid myself that I was going for a spiritual feast, and one die hard member of the local church finally called me out on it. Regina Saskatchewan was where all of the super righteous people went, not some individuals (namely me) who opted for a "carnal feast".
But I did the carnal thing for a number of my single years and I'm damn glad I did so!!
I also never had that disease called "feast fever" either, a term that I could hardly stand every time I heard it.
"Best Feast ever?" Depended on how much "carnality" I was able to indulge in!
November 26, 2017 at 4:03 AM said, "For an objective assessment like the above, I was deemed to be "in a bad attitude." NO, if you had thrown that turd overboard, then you may have had a "bad attitude."
These are the only idiots I've encountered in my entire lifetime who believed that humans should be able to become happy or joyous on command, often in spite of any bad conditions which they might impose.
The article comes across as very patronising. It reveals more about them, how they love to pigeonhole members, look at the titles they give examples of members.Uggghhh. Meanwhile in reality, many members will be getting on with their lives, doing real jobs in the real world earning enough income to afford the WFW.
PCG, UCG, LCG & RCG always talk down to their members as though the laymembers were a bunch of idiots. The ministers should be ashamed of themselves for treating people in such a fashion. I only know of three groups that treat their members with some respect, CGI, ICG & GCI.
Hey...I thought I was the only one with PRE Feast depression. I always felt guilty because it was never a Wahoo situation for me having to go by myself. My wife...who I thank God for everyday..always sent a Feast package with me with gifts and cards I opened everyday. Gee..and she i one of those "so called christians" that I hear about..a lot..too much..what's the point. Now, I take the time off from work and spend Feast at home with me little angel and these have been for me...the best Feasts ever. I never understood the chosen sites thing. Shouldn't we ALL be together? Happy? So it DOES show shadow of things to come...or am I nuts. I recently listened to a sermon on receiving counsel or the attitude towards it. Through the years I have asked advice but I have not sought counsel. They have Know idea who I am. My dreams. My goals..so..how could you "counsel" me. Just some thoughts..been doing this more too..thinking.
PCG, UCG, LCG & RCG always talk down to their members as though the laymembers were a bunch of idiots.
If you stay in those groups for more than a couple of years, you ARE an idiot, or at least you are being programmed into becoming one. How anyone can accept week after week of LCG sermons is beyond me. It's the same old message, "Obey government." The same message Simon Magus would have preached when he was in charge.
At least the members of PCG and RCG hear new messages occasionally. Unfortunately, the new messages are insane.
I have always thought that the Feast sermons were too focused on how members were to become kings and priests. It shouldn't be about "us". The messages should cover how hope and healing will be brought to the suffering masses, who had no clue why the Earth was such a mess. The rod of iron is also to be mixed with a Christ like love to make things work. There is no need to hear the same sermon fifty times as I have.
Can we picture HWA or GTA successfully mentoring to millennials?
GTA could take some lessons from the Children of God and implement "flirty fishing" as his special brand of "personal evangelism." In today's hook-up culture, he would have a relevance Gerald Weston can never command.
Seriously 3:55. Are you to damn lazy to open the pdf document and look for yourself? How lazy can you be? It is there clear as day for your eyes to see!
Hi 4:30 PM, There is a difference in the 'Read Online' and the 'Download PDF' versions. I went to the 'Read Online' version thinking that they would both have the same content. I learned that they do not. Thank you for your assessment of my abilities.
25 comments:
I could feel the bile rising in my throat when I read this.
The "best Feast ever" crap is part of what woke me up about Armstronigsm's toxic flaws.
Every year, ministerial suck-ups would tell all who would listen, "This was the best Feast ever!"
As for me, one of my first five Feasts was a truly exceptional cruise on a very nice ship. Another was a tour of Israel.
It's not that I didn't like the Feast in Redding or in Bend, but I heard pretty much the same messages there that I had heard at other Feast sites before them, and the people attending were less excited and maybe even a bit less friendly. The Feasts on the boat and in Israel were experiences of a lifetime, though, and would always stand out as such. Unfortunately, when I told people the truth, "It was a great Feast!" that wasn't enough. By refusing to lie and call a good feast "The best Feast ever" I was seen as less spiritual.
Were these Stepford deacons and members truly brainwashed into thinking that each Feast was better than the last? That would be a damning indictment of WCG and its splinters. Or were these people desperately seeking approval, and willing to lie in order to gain that approval? That, too, would be a damning indictment of the church's culture.
One year, a minister asked me why that year's Feast wasn't the best Feast ever. I decided to be honest and to tell him something like this: "I enjoyed being with brethren, and the activities were mostly enjoyable even though I felt sad that about a third of the brethren couldn't afford to participate because of the ticket prices and I could only donate enough to help a couple of families. I suppose the meal at which the hotel served us pork bacon was a valuable trial and a learning experience, but I felt sorry for the people who ate the stuff. I didn't enjoy the contention between some of the ministers about whether the teens' bathing attire was inappropriate; that seems like something that could have been resolved more privately, maybe even before the Feast. I suppose it is helpful to hear more or less the same sermon topics year after year, but two of the men gave the EXACT SAME sermon this year that they did at last year's Feast, which was disappointing. All in all, it was a good opportunity to learn and to grow."
For an objective assessment like the above, I was deemed to be "in a bad attitude."
If you have pre-Feast depression, as do so many in the ACOGs, why wouldn't you still have post-Feast depression?
Old-timers in the ACOGs remember when a Feast site with 1,000 attending was considered small, and most at some point attended at least a few Feasts with more than 5,000 in attendance. Why wouldn't you be depressed to see your church declining in membership and relevance?
The WCG splinters offer a near-perfect illustration of "sunk cost" theory, or escalation of commitment, in which people invest so much in an idea or a group that they refuse to change their behavior or allegiance, since doing so would be an admission that they made a costly mistake.
Add something new to your life, such as a pet
Now we know why crazy Aunt Ingrid has 20 cats... she has been in UCG for 20 years!
When I was in WCG I was all alone.
Why?
Anonymous said...
Old-timers in the ACOGs remember when a Feast site with 1,000 attending was considered small, and most at some point attended at least a few Feasts with more than 5,000 in attendance. Why wouldn't you be depressed to see your church declining in membership and relevance?
My Dad didn't sign his letter to Joe Tkach Sr about the destruction of the church as "M.T. Hall" for nothing. As I watched the Tkaches destroy my own congregation over a few short years, being able to do nothing about it, from 450 to 16 to nothing was certainly a part of my concluding what a farce it all was and began to readdress the theological and historical questions that I had put away in my head over the years.
It was the worst of times...it was the worst of times and fundamentally changed me.
These platitudes of "how to" do not address the emotions people feel . They seek to simply encourage one to "not feel that way." It's like telling that one that "God won't give you more than you can bare" when your child commits suicide as I have sat through some with. It's simply not true and not helpful. As one person told me when her only child committed suicide, "Jesus death was merely a weekend inconvenience and he and his father knew he'd be back in just three days better than ever....my daughter is dead. Shouldn't a sacrifice stay dead?" Go ahead and address that one with platitudes such as "she is in a better place" or "you'll see her again someday"
Happiness, contentment and peace is an inside job. If you leave it to others they can deprive you of it instantly. That's not living or being authentic.
Why were you alone? Did you not have family & friends in the church?
I well remember the pre feast hype that we were subjected to every year, and I could barely stand reading the annual GN festival issue that was full of how tos that covered every conceivable aspect of the FOT. To me even then, this was indoctrination, and I ignored practically all of it. Our assigned feast site was Regina Saskatchewan, which wasn't the most exotic place in the world, especially in October when sometimes the snow would fall. I was single at the time, and opted for exotic tropical sites as I was a certified scuba diver, and the FOT became an excuse for a dive trip. I did manage to attend every morning service however (wish now that I didn't), but I was on the dive boat that afternoon! I never did kid myself that I was going for a spiritual feast, and one die hard member of the local church finally called me out on it. Regina Saskatchewan was where all of the super righteous people went, not some individuals (namely me) who opted for a "carnal feast".
But I did the carnal thing for a number of my single years and I'm damn glad I did so!!
I also never had that disease called "feast fever" either, a term that I could hardly stand every time I heard it.
"Best Feast ever?" Depended on how much "carnality" I was able to indulge in!
November 26, 2017 at 4:03 AM said, "For an objective assessment like the above, I was deemed to be "in a bad attitude." NO, if you had thrown that turd overboard, then you may have had a "bad attitude."
These are the only idiots I've encountered in my entire lifetime who believed that humans should be able to become happy or joyous on command, often in spite of any bad conditions which they might impose.
BB
The article comes across as very patronising. It reveals more about them, how they love to pigeonhole members, look at the titles they give examples of members.Uggghhh.
Meanwhile in reality, many members will be getting on with their lives, doing real jobs in the real world earning enough income to afford the WFW.
PCG, UCG, LCG & RCG always talk down to their members as though the laymembers were a bunch of idiots. The ministers should be ashamed of themselves for treating people in such a fashion. I only know of three groups that treat their members with some respect, CGI, ICG & GCI.
Hey...I thought I was the only one with PRE Feast depression. I always felt guilty because it was never a Wahoo situation for me having to go by myself. My wife...who I thank God for everyday..always sent a Feast package with me with gifts and cards I opened everyday. Gee..and she i one of those "so called christians" that I hear about..a lot..too much..what's the point. Now, I take the time off from work and spend Feast at home with me little angel and these have been for me...the best Feasts ever. I never understood the chosen sites thing. Shouldn't we ALL be together? Happy? So it DOES show shadow of things to come...or am I nuts. I recently listened to a sermon on receiving counsel or the attitude towards it. Through the years I have asked advice but I have not sought counsel. They have Know idea who I am. My dreams. My goals..so..how could you "counsel" me. Just some thoughts..been doing this more too..thinking.
UCG does not have a cure. UCG is the problem.
PCG, UCG, LCG & RCG always talk down to their members as though the laymembers were a bunch of idiots.
If you stay in those groups for more than a couple of years, you ARE an idiot, or at least you are being programmed into becoming one. How anyone can accept week after week of LCG sermons is beyond me. It's the same old message, "Obey government." The same message Simon Magus would have preached when he was in charge.
At least the members of PCG and RCG hear new messages occasionally. Unfortunately, the new messages are insane.
I have always thought that the Feast sermons were too focused on how members were to become kings and priests. It shouldn't be about "us". The messages should cover how hope and healing will be brought to the suffering masses, who had no clue why the Earth was such a mess. The rod of iron is also to be mixed with a Christ like love to make things work. There is no need to hear the same sermon fifty times as I have.
Any links to this? It is hard to believe this is legitimate, kinda.
Here is the link. United News https://www.ucg.org/members/united-news/united-news-november-december-2017
Can any of us imagine how the millennial generation would relate to Armstrongism? Can we picture HWA or GTA successfully mentoring to millennials?
BB
Byker Bob asked:
Can we picture HWA or GTA successfully mentoring to millennials?
GTA could take some lessons from the Children of God and implement "flirty fishing" as his special brand of "personal evangelism." In today's hook-up culture, he would have a relevance Gerald Weston can never command.
Can you be more specific with where this is supposed to be located in UCG's November December United News? Which article?
Seriously 3:55. Are you to damn lazy to open the pdf document and look for yourself? How lazy can you be? It is there clear as day for your eyes to see!
Hi 4:30 PM, There is a difference in the 'Read Online' and the 'Download PDF' versions. I went to the 'Read Online' version thinking that they would both have the same content. I learned that they do not. Thank you for your assessment of my abilities.
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