Allie Dart Properties Update
By Wes White
As a result of my December 28 post about the dispute over the four real estate properties gifted by Allie Dart to four individuals, I received a call last Sabbath from a man I will refer to as “a close friend of two CEM board members.” He asked me to keep his name confidential, so I will honor his request. Let’s call him David. This is not his real name.
David told me that there were two errors in my December 28 post. He pointed out that the title of my post was incorrect in that CEM does not technically have a lawsuit against the estate of Allie Dart. (More about that in a moment.) And he said that, while Skip Martin is very clearly named as the executor of Ron’s will, David had made it clear that (while Ron was alive) Skip stated he was not going to perform that service for the Darts. (More about that in a moment.)
Let’s start with the title of the post which mentions CEM suing the estate of Allie Dart. David is right that this title was incorrect. Let me explain. When I sent the post, I did not include a title. The title was added by the Banned people who wrote the title and genuinely believed it was correct. They wrote the title in good faith and it was an honest mistake. When most people hear the words lawyer or attorney, they usually assume a lawsuit. When the post first came out, I didn’t even notice the title because I was regularly monitoring the Comments section only. After my letter was posted, I didn’t even read the post itself because I was just hitting the “Comments” button. I should have paid closer attention. This was my mistake. For that reason, I apologize to Banned and its readers and to CEM. It was never my intention to mislead.
In the meantime, Banned has corrected the title and I thank them for this.
But I must stress that, other than the title, I stand by what I wrote in the article and I can state with a clear conscience that I had spent much time reviewing the article for accuracy before I submitted it. Again, I acknowledge my error regarding the title.
During my conversation with David, he made two points that I believe need addressing. They are important points! They are as follows:
First, David stated emphatically that the CEM board is NOT the cause of all this endless litigation that’s going on over the estate of Ron and Allie Dart. David placed the blame for this mess squarely on Ron’s family.
Second, David stated emphatically that, if Ron were alive, Ron would NOT be for the existence of RLDEA.
Let’s first deal with who is the cause of the current endless litigation. And this is an important point because everyone knows that Ron taught against taking a brother to court. And I have been told on more than one occasion that the CEM leadership is trying to deflect blame for being the ones who got the ball rolling on all this litigation that is costing all sides tons of money – money that could be better spent on preaching the Gospel and feeding the flock and helping the poor. This fable about CEM not being the initiators of this litigation is being spread throughout the Armstrong movement. It is not true.
So I have created a timeline of events on how all this got started:
During the October 2017 Feast of Tabernacles at Land Between the Lakes, I met with a CEM board member and with a man who later became a CEM board member. In that meeting, I expressed my disappointment that I had just learned about CEM hiring a litigating attorney. Both guys were unapologetic about this turn of events and made it clear that anyone who sits on the CEM board has a “fiduciary responsibility” (their words) to do what’s best for the corporation known as CEM – even if it means suing people who are in the church! In other words, corporate loyalty trumps relationships between brethren.
At that time, Cathy was executing Allie’s will. It was about that time that she had given the property deeds to Phillip Hufton and Dianne McDonnell. It was also during this time that she had given Allie’s gifts (as prescribed in the will) to various friends of Allie’s. Gifts like cars, dishes, cash gifts, dining room furniture, etc.
When CEM found out that Cathy had turned the deeds over to Phillip and Dianne, that’s when they hired an attorney to contact Allie’s estate attorney for the purpose of stopping Cathy from disposing of Allie’s properties. And what was their basis for insisting that Cathy stop disposing of Allie’s properties? They made it clear that this was community property and that Ron’s will provided for an inheritance to CEM. The CEM lawyers were insistent that Ron’s will was going to go into a settlement phase or be probated.
So, Cathy was informed by Allie's estate attorney that CEM had acquired legal representation in late September of 2017. However, as a sidebar, CEM had already begun making demands before the hiring of their attorney was announced. On August 18, 2017, just fivedays after Allie's funeral, Cathy received an email from the CEM board president (Willie Oxendine) requesting a timeline of when all of Allie's properties would be transferred over to CEM. I have seen this letter and was appalled at the board’s callous insensitivity. Again, we had only buried Allie five days prior.
Over the next few months, there was debate between Allie's estate lawyer and the CEM lawyers about whether or not Ron’s will should be probated. By this time, CEM had hired a second legal team. Note that the surviving Dart family members are nowhere in this picture! Also, Cathy's only legal representation at that point was Allie's estate attorney -- not a litigating attorney -- but a mere estate attorney.
By the time January 2018 came around, it was clear that if anything was going to move forward, Ron’s will would indeed need to be probated. Then the question was, “Who would be the executor?” The will that Ron signed clearly said that Skip Martin was to be executor. I remember that, at that time, we were wondering why Skip had not taken the will down to the courthouse to get it into probate. Personally, I had no idea Skip was refusing to execute the will at that time.
When it became clear that Skip was not going to probate the will and that CEM was trying to do a settlement agreement on their own terms, Cathy suggested that Ron’s niece (Jamie) volunteer to be executor. Jamie volunteered and the probate court judge then appointed her as administrator of Ron’s will. If Jamie had not become administrator of Ron’s will, we would still be at a stalemate with nothing moving forward.
Should Ron’s will have been executed? We now know the answer is yes. This is the lawful thing to do. CEM is entitled to an inheritance, whether Allie condoned it or not. It is the law.
The problem in all this comes when CEM tells its supporters that it was Ron’s relatives who started all this legal stuff. Ron’s relatives were not sitting around thinking of ways to get their hands on estate money. They were perfectly content with Allie’s will carrying the day and only got involved in Ron’s will AFTER CEM made it clear that Ron’s will was going to be put into probate one way or another. Yet, I have also been told by another person who is a friend of CEM board members that “one of Ron’s nieces” is the reason a final settlement can’t be reached. This is not true. All of Ron’s relatives ever wanted was to get this thing behind them as quickly as possible. This still want this. Meantime, it is all being held up because CEM is attempting to micro-manage the settlement to their favor and are refusing to negotiate fairly.
Now let’s deal with David’s claim that, if Ron were alive, he would be against the existence of RLDEA.
I asked him directly, “What makes you so sure that Ron would be against the existence of RLDEA. How can you be so adamant?” He replied that he was a friend of Ron’s for twenty years and had spent much time talking to Ron. He said that Ron had told him he wanted everything that he and Allie owned to go to CEM after their deaths. (For the record, shortly after Ron's accident in 2010, Ron and Allie told me they were no longer on speaking terms with David due to bad behavior on his part.)
Here’s where the logic of David falls flat. David is making a judgment based on a snapshot in time of what Ron was thinking at a particular moment. David does not take into consideration that Ron just might have changed his thinking if he were to know the events that would take place after he died. In any attempt to divine Ron’s thinking, we have to ask questions like this: “Would Ron have still wanted all his assets to go to CEM if he knew that his wife was going to be mistreated by the CEM board after his death?”
Now let’s be clear. I cannot say with 100 percent certainty that the CEM board mistreated Allie after Ron’s death. I can only tell you that Allie constantly complained to me (and many others) about the disrespect that she suffered at the hands of the board. I have read emails between her and the board where she recounted things that were said in board meetings that were highly disrespectful. I have read emails from board members to Allie where they made promises to her that they broke shortly after her death. But again, I wasn’t there. And neither was David. So I think most observers should be careful when making a judgment as to whether or not Allie was mistreated by the CEM board.
With that in mind, in the same way that I cannot say that Ron would INDEED approve of RLDEA’s existence, David cannot say that Ron would NOT approve of RLDEA’s existence. We can’t always predict someone’s future behavior because that behavior could be affected by events that happen after their deaths. On one hand, I cannot say, “I knew how much Ron loved Allie and, therefore, I predict that Ron would have done this.” And neither can David say, I knew how much Ron loved CEM and, therefore, I predict that Ron would have done that.”
This line of predictive reasoning doesn’t always work. However, one thing I can state with absolute surety is that Allie Dart definitely wanted RLDEA created before she died. As Ron’s wife, she was convinced that this would have had Ron’s blessing. And that’s all I needed to hear. The widow of Ron Dart requested I set this up for her, so I did. For all who are angry at me for helping her out, come on! She was a widow who had very few people she could rely on. Today, just about all of those who abandoned Ron and Allie after Ron’s accident are now against RLDEA.
Further, when David attempts to divine what Ron would or would not approve of today, isn’t he making the same mistake made by the worshippers of HWA?!? Don’t so many of these groups – in their attempts to claim the mantle of HWA – emphatically state, “If Mr. Armstrong were alive today, he would back what we’re doing and he would be against what all those other groups are doing.” This type of projection is an exercise in futility and it is wrought with pitfalls.
And here’s is the most important point anyway: Our Christian walk should never be, “This is what Mr. XXXXX would do if he were alive.” Instead, our metric should always be to concern ourselves primarily with what the Bible teaches. Isn’t what is Scriptural the most importing thing?
Yes, David and I both absolutely appreciate Ron’s efforts and Ron’s body of work. But Ron was fallible. As much as we loved the man, let’s not deify him. Instead, let’s acknowledge the good work Ron has created and let’s promote it. But let’s always look first to Jesus when trying to determine what should and shouldn’t be done. Let’s not try to be like Saul when he attempted to divine the will of dead Samuel. Saul should have been looking to God for guidance and not to a dead servant of God.
Again, I appreciate the conversation that we are having on Banned regarding this situation. I welcome input and even disagreement from all people. I am not perfect. As I pointed out in the beginning of this post, I make mistakes.
And, civil debate is healthy for us all – in spite of our beliefs on theology or church administration.
For those of us on this forum who claim to be followers of Jesus, we must always remember that Christianity is relational – not corporate. How we treat each other personally is more important than any corporation. With that in mind, I would like to close by recounting that David apologized to me for starting off our conversation with hostility in his voice. After we reasoned together, he told me how his Baptist friends are helping him to learn how to show more love and patience to others. He also apologized to me for abandoning our friendship that we once had. He acknowledged that his anger at me two years ago had nothing to do with anything I had done to him personally. That was a big admission. It is my hope that he will eventually understand that his misplaced anger at me was all over corporate issues. He has much loyalty toward various COG leaders and lets that get in the way of his personal friendships. He also asked if we could go back to being friends. I praise God for David’s kind words and hope that some Christian good can come out of this mess.
49 comments:
Christianity isn't hard, but sometimes it requires that you make hard choices.
If you want to do your fiduciary duty and your Christian duty, yet by doing one you must compromise the other, you must choose: are you going to be a good Christian or a good fiduciary. Christ told us that the love of money is the root of evil. Let us hope that as the contending parties pursue the money to which they believe they are entitled as Ron's gift, they do not lose out on the salvation to which they are not entitled but which God offers as His gift.
Corporations trump Christ and Christianity.
Lesson learned. I quit.
How much money will CEM gain (after the lawyers are paid) because it has pursued all available legal remedies?
How much money will CEM lose when people decide not to spend their money on CEM, having seen the bad fruit that comes from following the teachings of Ron Dart?
CEM ought to consider that even in winning their lawsuit, they may lose grievously.
Forget lawyers, why not settle this "Comanche Style"? White mans ways too slow!
5:38 PM , Of course you quit, you have nowhere else to go after this!
The problem is that once one party enlists legal representation, unless the other party enlists equally powerful representation, they will be basically defenseless.
BB
Wes said, “He (David) pointed out that the title of my post was incorrect in that CEM does not technically have a lawsuit against the estate of Allie Dart. Later, Wes said, “First, David stated emphatically that the CEM board is NOT the cause of all this endless litigation that’s going on over the estate of Ron and Allie Dart”. Then Wes said, “This fable about CEM not being the initiators of this litigation is being spread throughout the Armstrong movement. It is not true”.
MY COMMENT – Wes, your second two statements above are in conflict with your first statement regarding the original post title. Litigation means lawsuit. If CEM doesn’t technically have a lawsuit against the estate of Allie Dart, then who is being sued by CEM? What is this litigation you refer to? Is there a Court case filed in a Court with a case name and case number and the defendants identified? Who are the Plaintiffs and who are the Defendants, if any case? Thanks!
Richard
Wes wrote, “First, David stated emphatically that the CEM board is NOT the cause of all this endless litigation that’s going on over the estate of Ron and Allie Dart. David placed the blame for this mess squarely on Ron’s family. “
MY COMMENT – If David means “Allie Dart” by his statement “Ron’s Family”, then I would have to agree. In my mind, this “Affidavit of Heirship” executed by Allie which you referred to in the original post was a fraud. When you write, “CEM is entitled to an inheritance, whether Allie condoned it or not. It is the law”. This statement tells me that you inherently knew that Allie was committing a fraud. Seems Allie felt mistreated by the CEM Board after Ron’s death, so she willfully decided to ignore Ron’s Will to leave CEM an inheritance, didn’t deal with Skip Martin when he went AWOL, and then claimed that she was sole inheritor of the estate by virtue of the Affidavit of Heirship which was NOT true so she could screw CEM. She tried to perpetrate a fraud and thought she could get away with it!
I totally get CEM’s “fiduciary responsibility” position. Ron Dart wanted to provide CEM with an inheritance. If he later changed his mind, then he needed to update his Will to exclude them.
There are lots of “Christian Education” (pun intended) material lessons here including the importance of updating Wills as life changes occur throughout one’s life. Wills do not have to be stagnant documents. I’ve had multiple wills and codicils added during my lifetime as my life’s circumstances changed. Connie Schmidt’s advice about a Living Trust especially when Real Property is involved was excellent advice. I hope an out of Court workout settlement can occur which includes considering the suggestions I made earlier, so the matter can be resolved equitably for ALL.
Very sad situation for all involved.
Richard
What's the purpose of RLDEA anyway? IS it a rival to CEM?
I think Ronald Dart's favorite doctrinal change was when they said it was ok for men to wear wigs and toupees.
I know one man who was incensed about the decision and went around showing the scriptures that he said proved it wrong. (He had plenty of hair.)
I never understood why Ron Dart wore that ridiculous toupee. It was so obviously fake that it just screamed out the messages, "I hate the way God made me!" and "Truth is less important than my image!" It detracted greatly from his credibility, and now we see that the people closest to him, who most closely followed and promoted his teachings, are essentially no different from their fellow Armstrongites.
So says you. What a horrible things to write.
Many were very jealous of Rons humanity, bible knowledge and unshakeable faith in God.
Having hair was far more important to a man in the 60s and 70s. It became far more accepted when pro wrestling became popular plus most of the famous NBA players were bald.
If someone wants to wear a toupee - so what?
We should not get all hung up on irrelevant physical issues.
12:08 displays one of the biggest issues of Armstrongism in all of it's glory: Focusing so much on the physical, and ignoring the spiritual.
I saw this same attitude happen in the WCG time and time again.
Judgement on suits, Judgement on hair length, on handshakes. Toupees are a personal choice. It a toupee detracts from someone's credibility, then this explains why there was so much judgement on every other physical issue that happened among the church. Trust me, I've seen the sneers, the looks, the gossip, the backbiting - the conversations. This guy's tie is too short. The suit is cheap. The slip is showing.
The Toupee does not and should not matter. What should matter - and this is what is important - is the heart, the mind, and the faith of a person regardless if he wears a toupee, a suit, jeans, a sweatshirt, sweatpants, rags, or only has hand-me-downs.
I hope people notice this attitude 12:08 displays and notice it well. This is Armstrongism in full glory. Where a toupee detracts from credibility, despite the spiritual fruits that were displayed (regardless of doctrinal and theological disputes/issues).
The original reason Ron Dart got a toupee was in connection with his work on the Garner Ted Armstrong “America Listen” personal appearance campaign. It was thought to enhance the overall presentation, the image of the campaign and the church which sponsored the campaign.
So far as the wills are concerned, if time elapses between the deaths of a husband and wife, conditions can often change. Hypothetically, if the wife sees attitudes amongst the board members which could change the vision associated with her late husband’s work, the wife should have the prerogative to make corrective adjustments in her own will. Even if Ron’s will had been probated, most likely there would still have been a fight for his intellectual properties and estate following Allie’s passing. That’s consistent with the way in which ACOG ministers generally use the legal profession.
We have an unusual situation in this case in that Ron apparently did what we exhort all the ACOG leaders to do. He avoided enriching himself from his ministry. Fortunately for him, his wife was the individual in that relationship with the capitalist savoir faire, and we can infer that her earning power most likely greatly funded Ron’s ministry. The value of what Ron left behind was his body of written and recorded works, wealth that is arguably only of value to a small handful of people involved in the practice of Armstrongism. Of course, it may also well be that the collection of independents who looked to Ron is actually the largest surviving ACOG group, bigger than them all.
It would fly so much better on a public relations perspective if the CEM board believed enough in Ron’s materials and in their own ability to properly use them that they made an effort to preserve and fund the dissemination of this collection of materials on their own. Other benefactors and patrons have certainly stepped up to the plate to perform a similar service with other artistes throughout the past.
That said, another practice which we always critique is the continued usage of old GTA programs, as if he were alive, breathing, walking and talking with the rest of us. Now we’ve got another leader that people want to do this with. To me, it is all very similar to PCG and the lawsuits they filed to gain control over dead Herbie’s booklets. Everybody seemed to want to fight over the horrid and depressing Dwight Armstrong hymns as well.
As we get further and further away from Armstrongism’s time and date stamp, and the mercury continues to split into more and more infinitesimally small droplets, the materials will naturally devalue themselves, and we will see less and less of this happening.
SHT - are you denying the rights of the WCG and splinters? You maybe a failure at work, a lousy parent, and/or have the worst house on the block - but you can feel superior because one day you will be a king and all the people who look down on you will have to grovel at your feet.
Where a toupee detracts from credibility, despite the spiritual fruits that were displayed (regardless of doctrinal and theological disputes/issues).
The "spiritual fruits" of Dartism are on display right now as the RLDEA and CEM show us Dartism in practice. They are as fake as Ron's toupee.
Byker wrote:
The original reason Ron Dart got a toupee was in connection with his work on the Garner Ted Armstrong “America Listen” personal appearance campaign. It was thought to enhance the overall presentation, the image of the campaign and the church which sponsored the campaign.
The WCG had the advice of BBD&O, and had members like GTA's friend Dr. Robert Kuhn who moved in the highest strata of society. It had enough wealth that it put expensive paintings in the homes of evangelists. Surely, if the toupee had something to do with enhancing the credibility of the Work and GTA's campaign, there would have been someone who could have told Mr. Dart's handlers to spend more on a toupee that wouldn't look ridiculous. Of course, in WCG it couldn't have been a mere member telling him this, but if he heard it from an advertising executive or from a minister above him in the WCG hierarchy, Mr. Dart would have had no choice but to get a toupee that wasn't such an embarrassment.
Not as superior condecending as you. Got a grip with the world ?
Regarding Richard/Lake of Fire’s questions on 12/31/2018:
Allie absolutely, positively did NOT attempt to commit fraud when she filed her “Affidavit of Heirship”! Everything she did regarding this legal stuff was done under the advice of her attorney. And I am not suggesting her estate lawyer was unethical. I think he might have been careless. Perhaps even inept. Again, I am not trained in legal affairs so I cannot comment on her lawyer, his qualifications, and his state of mind. But I am qualified to comment on Allie’s state of mind when it came to Christian ethics. And I will say to my dying day that Allie would NEVER knowingly do something illegal!
Please remember that, from the moment of Ron’s injury, Allie’s life turned into a hellish situation. She was trying to take care of Ron (full time job) and CEM (full time job) at the same time. She was elderly. After Ron’s accident, she was abandoned by so many people.
I firmly believe that Allie died too soon because she sacrificed her health – an older lady trying to nurse a sick husband and manage a ministry. It was only after Ron’s funeral that she got back to the doctor to treat the symptoms which she had been keeping from others and ignoring for many months. I believe that, if she had addressed these health issues sooner, she might just be with us today.
I believe all these actions demonstrate Allie’s commitment to her husband and to his ministry.
And yes, it was Allie’s decision to put off her own medical treatment until after Ron’s death. It was her decision and hers alone. So, while we can have understanding for Allie’s decision-making process, it still falls on her and her alone. While I look back and wish Allie had handled things differently regarding her own personal health, I am firmly convinced that she would NEVER have ever deliberately committed fraud.
The possibility of Allie even possibly committing fraud is the first I have ever heard of this. Even those people who detested Allie (to my knowledge) have not made this statement. Have you heard this from others or is it something that you have just surmised on your own?
Further, if I “inherently knew she was committing fraud,” I would have walked away from this situation immediately.
Finally, when David refers to “Ron’s family,” it has nothing to do with Allie. David made it clear to me that he was referring to Ron’s blood relatives. Definitely not Allie.
--Wes White
wdwhite49@yahoo.com
Anonymous @6:02 said:
"How much money will CEM gain (after the lawyers are paid) because it has pursued all available legal remedies?
How much money will CEM lose when people decide not to spend their money on CEM, having seen the bad fruit that comes from following the teachings of Ron Dart?
CEM ought to consider that even in winning their lawsuit, they may lose grievously."
Exactly. Hard to imagine that even the most materially driven people would imagine coming out on top in this.
Okay, it's time for me to correct the record. I will try my best to take the high road. So, I'll just state the correct facts.
Yes, Ron Dart asked me to be an executor of his estate. The key word in that sentence is "an." I was never the executor. Ron's wife, Allie was first, and I would have been had Allie been unable to serve. Here is the wording from Ron's will. Please note the statement about "in this order."
EXECUTORSHIP A. Appointment. I appoint the following persons (In the order, priority and sequence named) to serve as Executors of this Will:
1.My spouse, ALLIE B. DART; 2. SKIP MARTIN, 1405 Pocahontas, Arizona 72455.
If a person named above shall not be living at the time of my death or shall die, resign, fail, refuse, become incapable or unable to serve as Independent Executor of this Will, then the next person named shall serve as successor Independent Executor of this Will.
In addition to that wording, I had presented Allie Dart with a letter of resignation at my last CEM Board meeting. So, even if the will had not stated plainly that Allie was Ron's executor, my letter of resignation took me out of the loop.
I resent that my name has been maligned several times on this site. Hopefully, this will end it.
Here is the bottom line. Allie Dart was Ron's executor, and it was her job to probate Ron's estate.
On the other hand, had I been the executor, I would have absolutely probated his estate and fulfilled his wishes.
Skip Martin
Anon 4:06 AM. but you can feel superior because one day you will be a king and all the people who look down on you will have to grovel at your feet.
As opposed to you anon Jan 1 4:06 AM who clearly is living the dream here and now. What a Godly character you have. Posting vemenous comments on here. Hiding behind a laptop. Must be a Headquarters worker.
You look down on Ronald L Dart because he's dead. You would not have said boo to him alive. Well Ron's dead physically where as your clearly dead on the inside but alive on the outside.
4.06 AM
Do I feel superior because one day I will be a king? Most certainly. I'm proud of that fact, and won't be intimidated by moral trailer park losers.
I had a psychopath in my previous workplace who I was forced to deal with. I got this nonstop 'song' from him to the effect of 'don't think you're better than me.'
Well, I am better than psychos. I am better than those who end up in the lake of fire. I am better than demons, who by the way, who call us humans monkeys because of their superior intelligence. Those who rule ten cities are superior to those who rule five.
Those who rail against some people feeling superior to others are rule riggers. They can't win honestly, so they immorally rig the rules to get as head. They are crooks.
Skip Martin, thank you for clarifying your role and posting the excerpt from Ron Dart's Will. Obviously you weren't totally AWOL as we were initially led to believe. Since Ron Dart's Will was never probated by Allie Dart as first in line order executor while she was alive, wouldn't her death make you the Successor executor or second in line? If that is the case why did you not come forward as successor executor? I'm not sure what your resignation as CEM board member had to do with it . Richard
I remember Ron Dart from over 40 years ago when he was a pastor in Britain, he was always intelligent and a good speaker and one of the better ministers. His hair was thinning back then, but it looked good on him. I was very surprised to see the toupe in recent years.
I sent him an email once, saying that I was surprised to see that he must have been healed to now have a full head of hair, as he was already losing his hair in his 40s. He didn't reply. Despite respecting Dart back then, I wondered why he joined the scurrilous GTA.
Now if I remember, Rader was thinning too, in the 1970s, and somewhere along the line his hair started to get thicker. But only a little thicker, not a completely full head of hair. I presume he must have had some hair weaving or transplantation or something....but done in a way that wasn't that noticeable. The slimey lawyer got it right at least in the hair department.
Most older men look fine bald, and look weird with lots of hair.
You look down on Ronald L Dart because he's dead. You would not have said boo to him alive.
Why would I look down on a man simply because he is dead? My opinion hasn't changed, though the antics of the two Dartist groups, RLDEA and CEM, confirm my previous opinion.
Also, why would I have said boo to him alive? He didn't care what I thought. Some people appreciated that he was preaching a kind of "Armstrongism-lite," but from my perspective he was like a man who had figured out how to convince people to eat TidePods by adding cherry flavor. TidePods aren't less toxic when you add cherry flavor, so in a way Dart was more monstrous than the horrid little men who expect you to swallow your Armstrongism in its original nasty flavor.
Richard, the letter I was speaking of was my resignation as executor of Ron and Allie's wills. I gave Allie my resignation letter in front of Ron and the entire CEM Board. Allie's comment was, "Good, I was going to fire you, anyway."
After Allie's death, when it became public that Allie had not probated Ron's will, I offered to step in, but my resignation letter allowed the court to appoint someone else. (Thank goodness.)
The court appointed a lady who was named in Ron's will. I have not kept up with any further actions. However, it's my understanding that Ron's will is now being probated.............there is no "lawsuit."
Thank you for further clarifying Mr. Martin. Now I along with the entire Banned readership have a clearer understanding of your involvement in these events. I apologise to you if my questioning was interpreted as maligning you. It wasn't my intention. Richard
Wes, it is what it is. If it walks and quacks like a duck, its a duck. The plain truth is Allie conveyed properties that had a cloud on the titles. The cloud on the titles was Ron Dart's Will that was never probated. Who was the executor of Ron Dart's Will? According to Skip Martin's post Allie was the executor of the Will. Allie knew Ron Dart left CEM with an inheritance. Allie knew Ron Dart's Will was not probated when she conveyed the 4 properties to the named individuals because she was the executor of the Will. What else do you call that if it is not a fraud? Incompetence? I don't think so. Not when I read between the lines of the other comments you have made about the CEM board and its treatment of Allie after Ron died. You can't blame Allie's estate attorney if Allie actually signed the Affidavit of Heirship affixing her name to the document. The Affidavitt Allie signed was not truthful. Sounds deliberate and intentional to me. Sorry to "spill the beans" on your benefactor but you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Allie's hands are not clean in this matter. I knew something didn't smell right when I read your first post and the mention of the affidavit of Heirship. Richard
Anon 6:45 Your comments expose how very little you actually knew about Ron Dart. But i agree with you, we dont care either what you think.
We’ve heard the testimony (sort of) of two parties. I find myself wondering what sworn depositions under cross examination of these and additional parties might turn up. It will be interesting to see how this actually plays itself out as it processes.
BB
I am glad that Skip Martin has deigned to talk to us on Banned. It is not often that a drink-the-Cool Aid Armstrongite will give “degenerates” like us (fans of Banned) the time of day. Let’s get right to the heart of the matter.
Again, Allie never probated Ron's will because she genuinely did not think it needed to be probated.
Then, at the time of Allie's death, she was obviously no longer the executor. Immediately upon her death, Skip (according to the wording of Ron’s will) became the executor of that will and he should have gotten it probated immediately.
Now get this: I am looking at the first FSA (family settlement agreement) that was proposed by the CEM attorneys. (As president of RLDEA, I am now requesting access to some of this stuff because it can potentially affect RLDEA directly or indirectly.) This initial FSA was sent to Cathy’s estate attorney almost exactly a year ago. The date of this email is 1/3/2018. Here are two direct quotes from this proposal that was crafted by CEM’s attorneys:
1.2 Skip Martin, as executor of the Estate of Ronald Lee Dart…
3.1 Ron Dart’s Will will be admitted to probate, and Skip Martin will be appointed as the independent executor of Ron’s Estate pursuant to that will, to serve without bond;
If Skip Martin was not just a “no” but a “hell no” to be Ron’s executor after Allie died and had been a “hell no” for several years, why did the lawyers for Skip’s buddies at CEM put Skip’s name into this FSA?!? This smells to high heavens. Skip is very, very close friends with CEM board members John Beasley and Rod Martin. So how did this happen?
Did Skip know they were going to include him in this first settlement proposal? If so, then I think he is being disingenuous with us on this thread. If not, then what kind of friends would have their attorneys put Skip’s name in something like this since he had supposedly already taken “hell no” stance years earlier? None of this makes any sense.
I think the real questions are as follows: Did Skip say “no” to being Ron’s executor at the time of Allie’s death because his intentions were to "change his
--Wes White
mind" later? I ask this because Texas law says that a will has four years from the death of the testator to be probated. If it is not probated within four years of the death of the deceased, it becomes null and void. Is it possible that Skip’s refusal to execute Ron’s will was only a temporary tactic because he knew that CEM’s attorneys were planning to do legal machinations which would tie up the execution of Allie's will for years -- just as is going on right now? Could it be that the leaders of CEM (Skip's good buddies) wanted to stall the execution of Allie's will for as long as possible in an effort to slow down the development of RLDEA? Would Skip then agree to probate the will just before the four year deadline was up?
I believe these are valid questions. I hope someone can answer them. But for anyone who tries, please remember that I now have access to these records and I will be glad to go thru them to see whether or not you are being truthful.
Now, if the plan all along was to stall the execution of Allie’s will, it didn't work because RLDEA is up and running today. And it didn't work because one of Ron's nieces stepped up and is now administrator of Ron's will. Skip has been bumped out of the picture.
But Ron’s niece is paying dearly for trying to do the right thing. Her legal bills are mounting. This is a shameful thing to do to one of Ron’s relatives. Skip loves to say that Ron would be against the existence of RLDEA. Well, what do you think Ron would say about his own blood relatives having to continually fork over money in legal bills because of CEM’s stalling tactics? Remember that Ron (unlike many of the COGs) never wrote off his relatives as “unconverted” and abandoned them because of his religion. He was close to his blood relatives and showed them love all thru his ministry.
The current followers of Armstrongism lament that their church organizations are dying. These WCG-type of dirty tricks (coupled with the promotion of dishonest headline theology) are a big part of why many have fled Armstrongism and why Armstrongite churches can't attract new converts. Armstrongism is dying. But then again, this is not news to those who regularly read Banned.
--Wes White
Looks like Wes and Skip need to decide whether Matthew 18:15 applies between ministers.
Wes White wrote:
If Skip Martin was not just a “no” but a “hell no” to be Ron’s executor after Allie died and had been a “hell no” for several years, why did the lawyers for Skip’s buddies at CEM put Skip’s name into this FSA?!?
Well, as Skip had said "Hell, no!" to Allie's and Ron's faces some time before, there's as much fault to be found among Allie's buddies at RLDEA. Maybe CEM screwed up, in which case I'm sure Wes wants us to forgive, just as he implores us to forgive Allie for her screwups.
Wes also wrote:
Texas law says that a will has four years from the death of the testator to be probated. If it is not probated within four years of the death of the deceased, it becomes null and void. Is it possible that Skip’s refusal to execute Ron’s will was only a temporary tactic because he knew that CEM’s attorneys were planning to do legal machinations which would tie up the execution of Allie's will for years -- just as is going on right now?
Skip could not have known in advance that Allie would choose to file a bogus Affidavit of Heirship rather than probate Ron's will. Wes's speculation here makes no sense.
Wes also wrote:
Skip loves to say that Ron would be against the existence of RLDEA.
This is pure emotional manipulation. How does Wes know whether Skip "loves" to say it, or whether he sadly laments stating what he considers to be a painful truth? Presuming to know another man's heart is a dangerous business. I, for instance, cannot determine whether Wes is making nutty assertions because he is blinded by emotion, or whether he is deliberately motivated to deceive for some monetary or other benefit. I can, however, recognize that his assertions are in large measure nonsense.
Wow! I've never had anyone so obsessed with me that he just can't stop talking about me. :-)
Well, again, I will try to take the high road. As I said earlier, I resigned as Ron and Allie's executor. I handed my resignation letter to Allie in front of several witnesses, so whether Wes likes it or not, I was no longer involved.
When Ron Died, Allie was Ron's executor. I can't say why Allie chose not to probate Ron's will. I can say this, however.....
In Ron's will were several monetary bequeaths. I'll leave names out, but every one of these, according to Ron's will were Allie's family.
$1,000 per month for life to A. If this person dies, $500 per month each to two family members till their deaths.
$1,000 per month for life to B.
$1,000 per month for life to C.
$1,000 per month for life to D.
$1,000 per month for life to E. If this person dies, $1,000 per month till death to a family member.
$1,000 per month for life to F.
$1,000 per month for life to G.
The last one (G.) is the person the court has appointed as executor, and has filed the petition for probate, as I understand it.
If you get your calculator out, you will see that Ron willed many, many thousands of dollars to Allie's family members. But, because his will was not probated, those people received nothing.
When I was notified, after Allie's death, that Ron's will had not been probated, I was surprised. At that time, I had never seen a copy of either will. But since I had resigned several years before, there was no reason for me to see them.......Ron's in particular. I was asked if I would step back in and perform executor duties for Ron. I was happy to say yes. A few weeks later, I was informed that since I had resigned as his executor and one of the beneficiaries had petitioned the court to be executor, I was happy to step aside. I am not aware of any paper work that put my name in as executor, but if it was, so be it. I was not involved, and am still not involved except to the extent that I will defend my name against blatant incorrect charges.
And as to the Matt. 18 comment, first, I am not a minister. Second, that applies to all Christians, and I contacted Wes personally, as Matt 18 says to do.
Now, all I am doing is setting the record straight.
I will correct a couple of errors I made in my last post. Two of the named beneficiaries were Ron's kinfolk. Sorry
Skip
Skip, I now know you weren't the executor, but do you have any insight that you can provide the Banned readership of the dollar value of the Ron Dart estate? Do you know how much the CEM inheritance was estimated to be? Richard
CEM & the OX-BOW Incident
There seems to be a rush to judgment to hang the CEM Board. The danger is that we may all end up with our own version of the OX-Bow incident. So before we tie the knots around their necks and kick the horses out from under them and hang them I think we all need more information regarding the following:
1) Who appointed the current CEM Board members?
2) Why wasn't Allie Dart appointed to the Board?
3) Did Ron Dart provide explicit guidance before he was injured as to the direction he wanted CEM to follow, and does this conflict with the direction Allie wanted CEM to follow after Ron's injury?
4) Do the Board members receive financial compensation for sitting on the Board or is this an act of unpaid service on their part?
5) Why was Allie Dart so upset with the Board? I read somewhere that Allie wanted the Board members to sign a statement that they commit to being adherents to the Republican party?
6) Based on Skip's statement about his interaction with Allie it seems that the one who might have been treating people with disrespect was Allie and not the CEM Board?
Thank you,
Aristophanes
(I have no affiliation with CEM and I am a fan of CGI, Wes White and Banned)
At 10:54 AM, Skip Martin wrote:
I am not a minister
Skip, is this you?
The Colossian Heresy
Thank you for the correction, letting us know that you aren't a minister, but are simply a guy who gives sermons for CGI.
Hoping to take the high road, I will answer as I feel comfortable.
1. Before Ron's accident, two of the current board members were elected......Rod Martin (no kin,) and John Beasley, both handpicked by Ron. As with most private boards, the board elects its members. As far as I know, Allie was in favor of all current board members other than Larry Watkins. He was elected after her passing.
2. Allie WAS on the CEM Board. At Ron's request, I nominated her myself, a few years before Ron's accident. She was re-elected and served till her death.
3. There was no specific guidance from Ron other than to spread the Gospel as he/we believed. We were all on the same page with him. I was on the board from 1998 till about 2010. Ron and I spoke at least weekly, from the mid-eighties till he was injured, so I was more than a little familiar with what he expected from CEM after his death. Our conversations were much less after his accident due to his inability to communicate. He was very close to several of us, and hand picked every board member till his accident.
4. None of us ever received a penny in compensation. CEM paid hotel and travel expenses when we traveled to Tyler for meetings.
5. Let's just say Allie didn't like for anyone to question her or vote against her motions. I've never heard of any pledge requirement concerning politics. I do know of one motion that was presented that was not passed. After I was gone, it is my understanding that she asked the board to pass a resolution that Larry Watkins would never be involved with CEM. The board refused. I believe that was the beginning of the end of the board and Allie's relationship.
6. I've said all I feel I can about Allie.
One clarification to Mr. Martin's post.
"But, because his will was not probated, those people received nothing."
Actually, for all but 2 or 3 of those people, they received nothing because they died before Ron Dart did. For anyone interested like Aristophanes, these wills are public record.
Did Skip know...
Did Skip say...
Could it be that the leaders of CEM...
I guess it would be better to ask them before posting here then.
drink-the-Cool Aid Armstrongite
This may have been meant jokingly, but insults do not sway me to your case.
Richard, I don't have any idea how much Ron's estate is. Allie was a fantastic realtor, and bought and sold lots of property. Together, their estate was probably sizable, but the screwed up way it was handled, I don't know. By the time Ron's will is probated and the seven people are satisfied, I can't see CEM receiving a large sum, because Allie didn't allow any of her estate to pass to CEM. Of course I could be wrong. Generally, the wills of a married couple aren't at opposite poles like these are. It's anyone's guess.
I will say this, though. As I understand Texas law, each spouse owns an undivided half interest in real property. The homestead may be exempt from that. I don't know. Because Ron's estate was not probated, his half of the real estate did not pass to Allie. Allie's executor, as I understand it, deeded several properties as per Allie's will. The problem is that Allie only owned half of those properties. The probate court will have to fix that, somehow. If I were the judge, I would have the properties appraised by three firms, and take the average. Allie's estate would owe Ron's estate half of that, and then allow the deeds to pass to the people Allie had in her will. I'm betting we will be hearing how CEM is taking properties from these folks, when in fact, it is Ron's estate that should be paid. If Ron's estate isn't paid half of the real estate values, I don't know where the money will come from to pay the seven individuals named in his will.
It's an unbelievable mess.
Anonymous, yes, I am the one who spoke on the Colossian Heresy at Tyler a few weeks ago. It was my first time to speak there, ever. We have an online, interactive home fellowship that I lead most Sabbaths. I've been on BOTS two times, but other than the one "sermon," and the two BOTS, my speaking is limited to our home fellowship. Sermons aren't my cup of tea. I prefer Bible studies.
And thanks for the clarification on the survivors of Ron's gifts. Since I resigned from being his executor, I haven't kept up with that. The only reason I am posting on here is to clarify some ridiculously incorrect comments made about me, and trying to answer questions. Hopefully, we are about through hashing and re-hashing what is true and what is false. :-)
Looks like something got memory-holed.
As a service to those interested...
http://archive.is/UeH7K
Yep. As a request for now. It is save though
Checking in and found a year has passed without any further news on this. Hopefully that means everyone has been satisfied and justice has quietly been done for the various heirs...
...or maybe it is all still a mess, but moving at a glacial pace with nondisclosure agreements.
Whatever.
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