One of HWA's favorite sermons, ok his only one, was about God being a "Uniplural" Elohim. From this it was but a short hop to "God is a family" and someday we would become God "as God is God" and "There were two trees....." Wrong....terribly wrong!
El is the original Most High God in the Old Testament, borrowed from the local Canaanite religion and the Elohim (the plural part) were His Council of the Gods. It is this Council of the Gods that El is talking to when He says, "Let US make man in OUR Image..." and it is El who gets nervous when Adam and Eve eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and says in Genesis 3:22
"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, (El and The Council of the Gods) knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
You see, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil along with the Tree of Life were God Food Trees. They were not for humans consumption. Humans were merely to be the worker bees for the gods in the original Sumerian myth later given a Hebrew twist. . Both the knowledge of good and evil and eternal life were reserved for the gods. However, why then Adam and Eve sinned by eating of the Tree before they knew it was evil to do is beyond most.
None of this has anything to do with El talking to the one who would later become Jesus of the New Testament.
HOW ON EARTH DID THIS SCRIPTURE GET LEFT IN THE BIBLE?
"Contrary to these biblical traditions that suggest an assimilation between Yahweh and El, there are other passages that seem to indicate that Yahweh was a separate and independent deity within El’s council. Deuteronomy 32:8-9 is one of those rare biblical passages that seemingly preserves a vestige of an earlier period in proto-Israelite religion where El and Yahweh were still depicted as separate deities: Yahweh was merely one of the gods of El’s council! This tradition undeniably comes from older Canaanite lore.
Deuteronomy 32:8-9
When the Most High (’elyôn) gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated humanity, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of divine beings. For Yahweh’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage. (YHVH was merely one of the Divine Beings at this point and given his people to be the god over, i.e The God of Israel.)
There are two points to take away from this passage. First, the passage presents an apparently older mythic theme that describes when the divine beings, that is each deity in the divine counsel, were assigned and allotted their own nation. Israel was the nation that Yahweh received. Second, Yahweh received his divine portion, Israel, through an action initiated by the god El, here identifiable through his epithet “the Most High.” In other words, the passage depicts two gods: one, the Most High (El), is seen as assigning nations to the divine beings or gods (the Hebrew word is elohim, plural “gods”) in his council; the other, Yahweh, is depicted as receiving from the first god, the Most High, his particular allotment, namely the people of Israel. Similarly, in another older tradition now preserved in Numbers 21:29, the god Chemosh is assigned to the people of Moab.
The Divine Council
Other biblical passages reaffirm this archaic view of Yahweh as a god in El’s council. Psalm 82:1 speaks of the “assembly of El.” Psalm 29:1 enjoins “the sons of El” to worship Yahweh, and Psalm 89:6-7 lists Yahweh among El’s divine council.
Thus there seems to be ample evidence in the biblical record to support the claim that as Yahweh become the supreme national deity of the Israelites, he began to usurp the imagery, epithets, and old cultic centers of the god El. This process of assimilation even morphed the linguistic meaning of the name El, which later came to mean simply “god,” so that Yahweh was then directly identified as ’el—thus Joshua 22:22: “the god of gods is Yahweh” (’el ’elohim yhwh). " http://contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/
With this in mind we can also better understand the rather enigmatic but well known verse in Exodus 20:5 which warns Israel not to make any graven images etc …"Because I the Lord YOUR God, am a jealous God." Even as a kid I wondered why God was jealous. Jealous of what? Other gods evidently and the text can better be understood as meaning "You shall not bring any other gods into my presence, for I the Lord YOUR God am a jealous God." In other words, there were gods aplenty. Just don't bring them into the territory of YHVH.
Even the God of the Old Testament evolved over time. Original Polytheism lost out to Monotheism. Eventually YHVH overtook El and became the "one true God." But in the beginning it was not so.
30 comments:
I am just amazed ex-WCG members or ministers go to the extent of using human scholarship to reject God's Truth as revealed by God through HWA, .HWA taught God's truth as revealed by God (divine revelation vs human scholarship)) through His word, the Bible. We were called and enlightened. We lived God's way of life until HWA changed God's doctrines beginning in 1974. That is where the rot began.
How do we know we had the truth? Simple: You were the proof. You lived God's truth by proving (living) it. We knew that we knew that we knew. No amount of denial by scientific and faulty reasoning will alter the fact that we had the truth. If we reject the truth, we can never find the truth again because we have already rejected it!
Read Heb 6:4-6 for a start.
the key word here is "ex-WCG"
what else would you expect from them?
Some notable ’elohim in the Bible:
1 Ki 11:33 Ashtoreth the goddess [’elohe] of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god [’elohe] of the Moabites, and Milcom the god [’elohe] of the children of Ammon
(With ‘god’ (’elohim) in the above being in the construct state the masculine plural ending changes: ’elohim (god) becomes ‘elohe (god of)).
Moses:
Ex 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God [’elohim].
Ex 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god [’elohim] to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
’Elohim with a plural verb:
1Sa 28:13b And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods [elohim] ascending out of the earth.
1Sa 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel...
Many “ephraims”?
Ge 41:52 And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.
Even human beings can have names with masculine plural endings.
"One of the greatest obstacles we face in trying to interpret the Bible is that we are inclined to think in our own cultural and linguistic categories. This is no surprise since our categories are often all that we have, but it is a problem because our own categories often do not suffice and sometimes mislead" (John H. Walton, Genesis, NIVAC, pp.67-68).
I would suggest that the comment above is a major explanation why so much COG theology is flawed.
Richard Nelson’s comment on the book of Hebrews also has implications for the rest of the Bible:
“The logic of the book is based on ancient rhetorical patterns and pre-modern exegetical principles that makes the reader’s task exceptionally difficult” (“Raising Up a Faithful Priest - Community and Priesthood in Biblical Theology”, p.141).
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Jer 33:19 And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying,
Jer 33:20 Thus saith the LORD; if ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
Jer 33:21 Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.
Anonymous said...
"I am just amazed ex-WCG members or ministers go to the extent of using human scholarship to reject God's Truth"
Darn that human scholarship! And they use human reasoning to do it! Oh the humanity of it!
No really, I understand the process and emotions tied to HWA's and others repeating their mistaken views over and over and how it gets into us as truth. That is why the process of outgrowing the familiar takes time. I will note that "divine revelation" is in the eyes and ear of the beholder, a slippery slope and reflects what the person wants or needs to hear and see. This is also why being confronted with having seen and heard through faulty filters causes one to dig in rather than explore what they may not have gotten correct the first time.
I thank Herbert W Armstrong for teaching me (or at least instill knowledge about or bring to my attention) the names and circumstance of all the things in Dennis his posting since my youth.
Millions of people in a wide circle around my whereabouts don't give a ff about the things under discussion. Don't know anything about history or the finds that have been dug up or are in ancient literature.
Most likely HWA was flawed in his understanding about these things, but at least he was curious and instilled the same in me. Today I know a hundred times more about strange things than millions perhaps even billions of other people. They are part of my identity.
It didn't persuade the Instagram model I was talking too yesterday, but still her grey eyes looked intrigued all the time I was teaching her about the world. That is sufficient for me.
nck
YHWH was jealous. He did not want his religion to get infiltrated. Maybe he saw what happened to the WCG and the Catholic Church.
It is impossible to avoid all scholarship. HWA relied on scholarship whether he realized it or not. For example, the COGs rely on the protestant canon. They reject the Catholic canon and other canons. They cannot really explain this without turning to scholars. For that reason it's a subject they would rather not think about or talk about much. The basic reason they reject the Catholic canon is because the Vatican is the Great Harlot. Then they accept the canon of the Daughter Harlots. It makes no sense.
I am fascinated by the range of comments - from God directly revealed the Truth to HWA prior to 1974 (except for all the false prophecies), and then he turned away from God's direct revelation to atheism, and the Bible is a collection of myths.
Thought provoking - for those of us who are allowed to think.
In addition:
Understanding the context and characters in the original myth also allows us to better understand Genesis 3: The Serpent in the myth was NOT Satan or the Devil tempting Eve. This is a later addition to the story in the Hebrew twist of the Sumerian creation myth.
The Serpent, in context, was the wise counselor to the Goddess. (Thus art today of beautiful women wrapped in a boa or serpent. It is an old symbol of the Feminine) It is goddess worship that is being attacked in the Fall story. Women were the fault of everything and from now on were to have babies painfully and say yes sir to men. That's a dethronement of women that has lasted to this day and taken up by the New Testament to keep women in their church place.
In reality in this verse, the Serpent TOLD THE TRUTH.
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
It was TRUE that for humans to eat of the God Food Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil would give them open eyes to good and evil as well. Something NOT for humans in the story. It also would give them ETERNAL LIFE, which also was not for humans in the story but for the gods only. It is the concern El voiced when they took of the first tree..."let they become like us."
It is "God" that "Lied" in the story to humans to keep them at bay. The Serpent corrected the lie and exposed the fear that EL and the Council of gods had if humans ate of the two trees. That IS the original story. It later evolved to what we have today where the Serpent is Satan and the truth is a lie. Theme reversal by the Hebrews.
Also, the COG apologetic for "in the day you eat of it you shall surely die" to explain why they did not die the day they ate of it is bogus. We all know it. "Well, even Methusaleh lived to be 969 but the Bible says a day with God is as a thousand years, so he died in the first day." This is ridiculous proof texting. No human, I guarantee you ever lived as long ,"pre flood" as advertised. This is Bible hyperbole gone wild.
Happy Sabbath! Now let's all take our hymnals, rise and sing "Death shall them seize..." and smile brethren! :)
Dennis, all I can say in response to your last is:
Fire before them shall devour. Flames ablaze are left behind. Such as Eden was shall become a wilderness that's desolate.
Like the noise of chariots, and as horsemen do they run. Nothing shall escape as they devour the stubble on their way.
People are faint at their sight, for they run like mighty men. Moving each on his own way they do not tangle in their paths.
Each does follow his own line, climbing walls like men of war. Then they charge as warriors and advance like fighters on their way.
They upon the city leap, break thru weapons each unharmed, run up on the walls and climb in houses, thru the windows leap.
Earth is quaking as they come, heavens shake, stars cease to shine. Then the Eternal thunders and the sun and moon become both black!
We sang that for decades. Amazing!
Is Anonymous 8:54 joking? I guess according to his/her post I fall into the category of one who has rejected the truth and can never believe it again. Anonymous 8:54 are you going to enjoy watching me sizzle in the lake of fire? or will you rush off to your reward in another galaxy?
I am surprised that someone who believes that stuff, would be on this site. Don't you know that in HWA's day believers were not supposed to read material from criticizers and unbelievers. It might corrupt you, a little seed from Satan might enter your brain and the rot will begin.
Sounds like an episode of Twilight Zone. Maybe Rod Serling knew the truth.
All this just goes to show that religion is constantly being reinvented, so the people who say science corrects itself and religion does not ....
In Mexico , he is known as EL EL ! :-)
Nothing is better than seeing an end to the wicked.
If Herb just made up, out of the blue, or all on his own, a fake explanation of his own for why Eve did not die the same day, then what is the Jewish explanation? What is the explanation of other churches? Do they all take the side of the Serpent?
It later evolved to what we have today where ... the truth is a lie. Theme reversal by the Hebrews.
How did we go from the Garden of Eden to CNN?
Great article, Dennis. I copied it and put it on my Facebook page, giving you full credit, of course.
Tonto wrote:
In Mexico , he is known as EL EL ! :-)
His son is known as Cool J.
When people blindly believe what some Daddy Religious Leader teaches, it's like building a house on sand. Which is the ACOG culture enforced by the Gestapo ministers. When people prove what they believe via evidence and reason, it's mentally building a house on a rock. The bibles 'prove all things' is there for good reason.
Having ones beliefs dictated by another, qualifies for the definition of slavery. It's a free person who chooses his/her own beliefs. But it's faith in bully immorality that these church leaders trust in. Nothing will change.
10.02 AM
8.54 PM is our resident troll. He does it often.
I don't consider COG members trolls. Calling someone a troll is not an argument, it's a personal attack in place of an argument.
But the troll gets lonely and needs to hang out with the bad boys
That dude may not be an ACOG member at all. He could actually be a troll. Dozens of people over the years have faked posts to make themselves sound like Armstrongites just to make people angry and guarantee reactions. Sounding like an authentic ACOG member is one of the easiest things on the face of the earth, especially for ex-members with a bizarre sense of humor.
BB
Dennis.
I am always amazed at how we connect on a subliminal jungian level.
And I have stated before for reason that we are brothers.
I do not expect anyone to read what I wrote but find it more than a coincidence that I wrote about the instagram model and you wrote avout the serpent as council to the godess.
That is Jungian psychology in its best form.
Nck
10:32 PM is not really an ex-member. It's easy to fake being an ex-member. All you need is too much free time, a penchant for posting fake opinions, and a strange point of view. It always gets a reaction.
Troll guys remarks treat member mistreatment as nothing. There is no empathy or sympathy. He's heartless. Which is why I suspect he's a former minister or elder.
He’s got no sense of humor, either. Probably wouldn’t even “get” the Big Lebowski. I bet he’d be deadpan watching it, and might even fall asleep.
BB
He's heartless.
Must be a bitter ex-member then.
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