I gave one on "The Wonderful World Tomorrow" as expected to do and perhaps even assigned to do in those years. I chose to quote much of "Touch the Earth" which was based on Native American observations about what was wrong with White Culture and how we tore up the planet and had lost touch with nature and the Earth itself accept to exploit it. We have lost ourselves in doing and forgotten what just being means to our good mental health. I expressed the hope that the Wonderful World Tomorrow was more in the Touch the Earth mode than subdue, which original meaning or not seems to mean "plunder" it and exercise "dominion" over every creature as was the original Biblical injunction.
After that sermon a Native American Cherokee family came up to me with tears in their eyes to thank me for addressing Native Cultural perspectives. It was a sermon they had never heard in WCG and always felt marginalized as we all might expect. The next day they presented me with five beautiful arrowheads and a turquois tie pin with a silver feather attached. I will never forget that.
The two red points were gifts from Cherokee WCG Members .
They are Florida Points that made their way up the Coast to Georgia. They date from the Middle Archaic Period of 8000 to 5000 years ago.
If I had a chance to give one more, it would be this one.
In hindsight, living in the Present Moment in one's actual life, without always looking ahead 3-5, 10 max with 25 for sure before the Kingdom comes, ate up way too much real life time and for nothing. Lesson learned.
48 comments:
" I chose to quote much of "Touch the Earth" which was based on Native American observations about what was wrong with White Culture and how we tore up the planet and had lost touch with nature and the Earth itself accept to exploit it. "
"except" to exploit it.....but anyway,
the American Indians did the very same thing, to the best of their ability...pop culture likes to make them out to be some great stewards of nature, but that is not true at all.
and sounds like those Cherokee members were still holding on to their Indian culture even after coming into the Church, straddling the fence, so to speak.....you can't do that, you're either in or not.
Let's see, in Roman times the life expectancy was 25 years, in the middle ages it was 33 years, and today in the west, it's 85 for females and 83 years for males. So I don't have any problems with 'plundering' the earth. Especially the coal, since I love my electric blanket. What was the life span of these stone age Indians? How healthy were they, and what was the quality of their lives? By bible standards, the Indians in the wild were non winners. After all, the parable of the talents was foreign to their culture. It's not surprising that apostates warm up to them.
You may want to do a little more research, 9:28. High imfant mortality skewed life expectancy figures for the Roman empire. Those who survived early childhood had an average life expectancy somewhere in their late 50s.
You really should read up on the accomplishments of non-white cultures! Native Americans had well-developed talents. European settlers learned much from them.
BB
Dennis:
I would imagine the Cherokee family really appreciated your sermon. It was no doubt very unlike their experience in the local area that they came from. Armstrongism and its splinter groups constitute a kind of church for White people. People of color are permitted to attend but they are never fully accepted. The theme of Armstrongism, if you dug a little below the surface, was about White pride and putting other people down. This has nothing to do with Christianity but then neither does Armstrongism.
Anonymous 8:11 reminds me of a guy I knew once. You could not say anything positive about people of color in his presence. If you did he would construe what you said to mean that you hated White people. You had to always aggrandize Whites and put down people of color to be "realistic" in his view.
Thanks 811. It was early.
And yet:
"Canada, the most affluent of countries, operates on a depletion economy which leaves destruction in its wake. Your people are driven by a terrible sense of deficiency. When the last tree is cut, the last fish is caught, and the last river is polluted; when to breathe the air is sickening, you will realize, too late, that wealth is not in bank accounts and that you can’t eat money."
Alanis Obomsawin “an Abenaki from the Odanak reserve, seventy odd miles northeast of Montreal.”
" By bible standards, the Indians in the wild were non winners. After all, the parable of the talents was foreign to their culture. It's not surprising that apostates warm up to them."
I'd not get too enamored with "Bible Standards". They are pretty typically racist or cater to exclusivity of being chosen and more special than others. Everyone, save the chosen ones of Israel or the True Church who were smoozed with "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." seems to have a hard time identifying with other views and even more so, at times, here on Banned when any hint of Native American culture and views come up.
The apostates comment is inane.
The point of the posting is not wasting one's time in the past which is just a thought in your heads or the future which is where most Church of God types spend most of their time to their harm and delusion..
Hey Dave, did you give the sermon in Myrtle Beach about 4D? Whoever gave it had a cardboard cut out of a human and talked about how spirit beings were in the fourth dimension. As a sci-fi geek I was very entertained!
"I'd not get too enamored with "Bible Standards". They are pretty typically racist or cater to exclusivity of being chosen and more special than others. Everyone, save the chosen ones of Israel or the True Church who were smoozed with "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." seems to have a hard time identifying with other views and even more so, at times, here on Banned when any hint of Native American culture and views come up."
Very telling Dennis, seeing that you were once enamored by the same. Obviously you were as racist and exclusive as the ones you're referring to, else how do you know how they think? I don't think you've changed, just sighted in new targets.
Something I need to mention. I am not sure that there is an accurate history of Native Americans in existence in North American archives. Frequently, detractors of Native Americans will cite events from history that derogate Native Americans. This is difficult to sort out because Native Americans were dispossessed of their lands in a highly political environment. A part of justifying this dispossession was to characterize falsely Native Americans as savages. And to some people, if it is in a book, it has to be true. But I have become suspicious of accounts written by Europeans contemporary to the events. If you look in British annals you will find some pretty ugly stuff written about the Celts. Without a time machine, how can this really be validated.
The point in the upper left corner is interesting. I have seen this pattern before but I don't know what it is for. The point has a regular tang at its base but then off to the left is what appears to be a smaller tang. An old flint knapper once told me that this types of point was not an arrowhead but a tool that had two handles, one at the base and one off to the side. However, I am skeptical. I have never seen an example where the small tang on the side was long enough to actually permit the mounting of handle with wrapped sinew. A handle might have been glued there. But what would such a tool be used for?
BB
According to Alexis de Tocqueville's 'Democracy in America', native Americas abhorred hard work. So I fail to see where your "well developed talents" comes from. They had their agricultural insights, since God sent an English speaking Indian into the pilgrims camp to teach them local farming practices, saving their colony. But that's not necessarily the same as a culture that prizes personal development. They were a stone sage race, pure and simple. Followers of political correctness often have difficulty seeing the obvious. Even hill billies can see the world more clearly than political correct fanboys.
I believe I've finally run out of reasons to post anything more on Banned lol (again:) It's not fun or personally enjoyable anymore. Some newbies have appeared of late with good postings on interesting COG topics of interest. Keep 'em coming.
I've shared for a decade all I know to share based in my own experiences but the personal judgements,labels and attacks have taken a decided uptick the past few months. Time to concentrate on other things I expect. For the offended, my apologies (if you're Christan you'll have to forgive me;)and to the encouraged and appreciative my thanks.
News FLASH: Two earthquakes have rattled Charlotte. . . . This can only mean one thing . . . God is very unhappy with the HQ of the LCG.
Don't blame you Dennis. Some of these people are ruthless. But what did you expect? Tolerance from a fringe, so called christian cult? They are the worse of the haters.
News FLASH: Two earthquakes have rattled Charlotte. . . . This can only mean one thing . . . God is very unhappy with the HQ of the LCG.
Well, He must not be THAT unhappy, as neither earthquake registered above magnitude 2.2 on the Richter Scale.
Anonymous 12:15
And I have read early American writings that characterized the Scots-Irish as disgusting, foul people who could not respond to civilizing influences. In general, they could not come to North America as indentured servants because they were violent and sometimes murdered their masters. Today they constitute some of the poorest and most backward people in the United States who live in a world of Country Music and opioids. Sorry, if I am not politically correct.
?Some of these people are ruthless. But what did you expect? Tolerance from a fringe, so called christian cult? They are the worse of the haters."
Its called karma to some or what goes around comes around. Dennis talks so much trash about others he should expect the same in return.
Gods laws are about reality. Love your enemy, something Dennis and many others here never learned from Jesus.
Dennis
If I was you, I would be courting and apologising to God rather than man for your anti God and anti bible articles. Why you have no fear of His vengeance is one of life's mysteries.
BTW, the reason all the elders and angels give glory and praise to God in the book of Revelation is because He strained for billions of years designing the reality that everyone enjoys. It's not irrational as you wrote not long ago.
Anon 5:35, your teeth are marvelously and wonderfully designed and maintained. Why do you not fear the vengeance of the Tooth Fairy for your ungrateful ignorance of Her majestic design of your mouth?
Answer that, and I suspect you'll also have the answer you seek from Dennis.
If I was you, I would be courting and apologising to God rather than man for your anti God and anti bible articles.
What about the many anti-Koran and anti-Talmud articles that are out there? Shouldn't their authors be quaking in fear of divine vengeance?
BTW, the reason all the elders and angels give glory and praise to God in the book of Revelation is because He strained for billions of years designing the reality that everyone enjoys.
If God is such a great designer, why did he design the human spine to be so similar to the spines of four-legged animals? If God wanted us to walk upright, and he had billions of years to do his designing, he sure did a TERRIBLE job designing the human back and spine.
Dennis said, "I have to admit, I miss teaching"
Please,enough is enough.
You caused too much trauma in the WCG and yet you keep going.
If only it was true that you were going to stop posting now but, history says you want to keep "teaching" to meet the needs of your ego.
You can take the minister out of the COG but you can't take the COG-narcissism out of the minister.
6:00
If God designed anything he designed the algorythm for life and the looked on what would happen during evolution. Perhaps with minor interventions by sending a meteor to Mexico at times.
Like modern self learning algorythm based on previous data they are full of the prejudices and mistakes of the former data the algorythm is learning from. So yes we might hunger for meat at times or yearn to kill someone after watching the joker.
Nck
The spine works perfectly if you take care of your body.
12:50, Herbie would be proud of you, basing your social commentary and part of your world view on the writings of a man who died in 1849. Whether or not de Tocqueville's comments were even valid when he originally made them, they are ancient history today. Besides, such stereotypes are lowest common denominator generalizations. There are many minority people who are both smarter and more well to do than you are. I bet that really pisses you off! For your further edification, I would hope that some of them are in positions of authority over you, and that you would regularly have to defer to them.
When I was working construction back in the late '60s, our crew chief assigned a job to one of our workers who had originally come to the USA from Mexico. The crew chief's dad asked, "Son, do you really think Ramon is savy enough to be able to do that job?" The crew chief said, "Dad, Ramon is plenty savy. He just doesn't speak English. Once it's explained to him in Spanish, he'll do a great job!" I might add that the dad's point of view was the prevaling view amongst many European-American English-speakers of that era. That was only 50 years ago, so we can certainly forgive de Tocqueville for having equally egregious misconceptions 120 years before that! People were extremely ignorant back in those days. Did you know that a "Negro" was only considered to be 3/5 of a person for decades of our history? Are you one of the people who wishes that we could return to those days?
BB
I like mathematical music, nck, particularly algorythm and blues.
BB
BB
DNA is like a piano.
Do you know why the piano is hard to open?
Because the keys are in the inside.
BTW At times Dennis is ruthless. So karma has it that responses might be ruthless.
I like things as they are as long as people are clear about their intentions, speak from their personal perspectives and tend to a bit of originality. A bit of civil discourse is nice too. Dennis meets my criteria. Besides his tribal affiliations make him tend to negotiate. So his remarks of "leaving" are just a proposal in my opinion. A proposal that is in want of a better deal so far.
nck
Byker, who usually knows his stuff, disappointingly wrote:
Did you know that a "Negro" was only considered to be 3/5 of a person for decades of our history?
This is one of the most common yet most ignorant statements made by folks who don't know U.S. history. To determine representation in the U.S. House of Representatives, as a compromise between slave states and free states, census takers were to count the numbers of Whites and Negroes. From the number of Negroes, 3/5 of that number was to count toward a state's representation in the House.
If Negroes weren't first recognized as whole persons, the representational compromise would have been meaningless. In every legal or economic matter, 1 slave was recognized as 1 whole person belonging to another whole person. Only to determine representation in the House of Representatives was the 3/5 compromise effected. Also, people forget that it was the NORTHERN states, the free ones, that insisted on the 3/5 compromise, to weaken the South's power in Congress. The South had wanted each slave to be counted fully toward each state's representation in Congress. It was the "free" North that insisted on devaluing states' slave populations.
October 7, 2019 at 5:12 PM wrote: Its called karma to some or what goes around comes around. Dennis talks so much trash about others he should expect the same in return. Gods laws are about reality. Love your enemy, something Dennis and many others here never learned from Jesus.
Dennis has never done any harm to anyone here. Your here at banned because you want to be. Dennis is here to help those blinded by false religion to see the other side of the coin. He also shares his experiences that I find of great interest. Its sad to see that some people just keep droning on with obsolete armstrongism to enforce their views.
Dennis is entitled to the same respect you demand from others. Got a problem with that?
I wish to be counted as one who truly enjoys the writings of Dennis. The personal attacks on him seem to come from the attackers inner insecurities. I like how Dennis draws from his lifes experiences and explains how it helped him to arrive at where he is now. Something his detractors can never seem to do. Are his critics that afraid of different perspectives?
Anonymous 3:34
Byker is not wrong about the 3/5s. You are confusing countability with human value. Byker was writing of human value. You stated:
"If Negroes weren't first recognized as whole persons..."
Blacks were not recognized as whole persons in regard to human value but in regard to countability. For a White person, human value and countability were tantamount. But a Black, though numerically countable, could not possibly be considered the same as a White with regard to human value. The countability of a slave did not magically impart some a priori whole human value. Hence, the arithmetic adjustment.
I would suggest, 3:34, that you read the opinions of black historians and civil rights activists on this 3/5 rule, and its lasting effects. I did not bring up this topic because I wanted to refight the Civil War, or to make commentary on the Reconstruction era, or the severe need for voting rights legislation in the 1960s. I used it on a disciple of Alexis de Tocqueville to illustrate the primitive and generally racist attitudes and stereotypes which prevailed during the 1800s until America finally began to awaken around the time of our nation’s bicentennial.
It is ludicrous to cite de Tocqueville as an authority on the basic nature of Native Americans, especially when one can easily find individuals who defy the archaic and anomalous stereotypes which racists wish to preserve and impose today. Most behavioral scientists weight environment over genetics in the developmental factors which ultimately make all of us who and what we are. This is why some have deliberately attempted to manipulate environmental factors such as educational opportunities in an effort to hold certain groups back.
BB
All these defenders of Dennis playing stupid and pretending that he is only giving a 'different perspective.' And no, The Painful Truth, Dennis is not here to 'help those blinded by false religion.' I've read five books on abusive Christianity the past year, and they are very different to Dennis's articles and posts. The body of evidence is that he is trying to undermine peoples belief in God and the bible. Doing this to those who have the holy spirit is the ultimate crime. There is no greater sin. My bible does not teach that such people deserve respect.
Granted, his personal experiences are interesting.
You are just always going to find philosophical animosities between evangelical believers and evangelical atheists. Defenses are up. Unless individual people are dissatisfied with their belief-nonbelief status and in search of new answers, they will generally resist conversion, no matter how sensitively or insensitively new ideas are presented. This is something both sides feel impassioned about, and there are even going to be attacks. That’s a given. If attacks upset people from either side all they need do is quit evangelizing, and quit being a TOT (Tommy one topic). Strike a common thread and relate for once.
BB
"...obsolete armstrongism to enforce their views."
Since when is "love your enemies" a teaching of armatrongism?
Matt 5;44 Luke 6:27,35
All Jesus.
"Dennis has never done any harm to anyone here."
And no one has done any harm to Dennis either. He says stupid things and he gets stupid thing said back. Or sometimes proper criticism. Is his ego is bruised maybe some humility is in order.
9:47am Amen! If he's going to dish it out he needs to be able to take it too.
This blog is such a paradigm of the old WCG. The offensive minister talks trash about others. The brave call him out for his absurdity and then pastor Dennis' loyal minions attack the brave ones. Minister Dennis gets to say whatever ever he wants but anyone who diagrees with him must be silenced.
A+ for attempting to build a more powerful vocabulary, 5:31. However, I think believe that microcosm would have been a better choice of words than paradigm. This blog, in reality, bears very little resemblance to the WCG, whether in organizational concepts and principles, or as a miniaturized version.
Are there too many comments for this question to Dennis ? Did you believe in the existence of God when you preached to thousands people at your last Feast of Tabernacles ?
Anon asks: "Did you believe in the existence of God when you preached to thousands people at your last Feast of Tabernacles ?"
Yes, of course. Losing faith in faith takes place incrementally and has for me over the past 25 years. I have explained it all, probably too much here over the past ten years.
I have appreciated processing my own experience and hearing that of others including their views of the ministry. I might be one some can project their hurt and pain onto, but I was not that kind of pastor. I thought, in my youth, it was my calling also for reasons too often explained. I was mistaken. I only ever wished to know what is actually true. For me it isn't that.
I am done here however.
DD said: "I am done here however".
What anonymous(s) misses is they are not Isaiah or HWA. Cry aloud and spare not is for a time in the future. Jesus Christ sat and ate with the "unclean and sinners" and healed many of them. His message was for the poor and weak and sick and oppressed (physically and spiritually). The religious elite were looking for a Messiah to validate their status.
The message of HWA was all about attaining status. The Pasadena backdrop was proof of the future viability of the message. Power, mansions, cities, planets, a rod of iron is the goal for many. This subject came up in conversation after a sabbath one day and one man when asked what he was looking forward to the most answered; I will be happy just being the janitor in the kingdom if I get to see my family once again. That is not a perspective you hear often.
What you annonymous are missing is that Christians are not only to come out of the world, they are to come out of the mentality of religious tyranny within. That is the same religious tyranny that Jesus Christ railed against while walking the earth. Those were the men who were shutting up the kingdom to many in the name of God.
Spotted from the world or stained in the name of religion (God) which is worse? In the day of judgement Mr. Diehl may have a life changing decision to make. He has said "I only ever wished to know what is actually true". Will he have a desire to embrace in his mind your message and your god? Will he want to love you and your god with all his heart for all eternity? Will he equate your message as truth?
2.45 PM
You wrote "will he.." three times. Such questioning is the note that many UCG articles end on. This, plus the obfuscation of your post makes you a United Church of God writer or copycat writer. UCG is the spiritually flat as a pancake church of God.
The Pancake Church of God, would be a fitting name. Their coming feast of tabernacles services will teach their members how to be pancake Christians.
"Those were the men who were shutting up the kingdom to many in the name of God."
Dennis says there is no kingdom, what is worse than that?
Matthew 6:24 Jesus says that if you are atheist you serve money.
Psalm 41 says atheists are fools and do corrupt and abominable things.
Romans 1 says athesists have depraved minds and are filled with unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil, envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice. they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful.
It even says they know the law of god and the penalty of sin is death yet still do evil and approve of others that do evil.
This is a description of Dennis from the bible. Seems much worse than anything anyone has said from their own words.
Dennis has know excuse he knows right from wrong and his intentions are to deceive and make his own disciples of atheism a religion of lies and death.
I know many people on Facebook with an approximate count of a thousand "friends" with wcg history. Even from Dennis's generation. So this blog does for certain not resemble the only outlet for "after the work".
It is in my opinion however the most fun blog to date to hear the uncensored spouting of opinions of a fringe minority.
DD could hook up with a few of those guys and have civil discourse on how everyone fares and share pictures of the grandchildren and see how half of those connections still participate in one of the splits and others or the same are very happy and some encountered adversity. However the only exchange "with a bite" takes place here. An occasional holiday from the sourness is required though. This blog is not for the faint-hearted but only for those who have no stake in the fire anymore. This blog is as depressing as ordinary life itself with the only difference that in contrast to real life the lifespan of one's story is a week. Still DDs contributions are part of the fun. It is fun that chagrins the depressed.
Nck
Nck. 2 john 1 say not to even greet someone like Dennis into your home or even offer him a greeting. This is from the new testament. Dennis' actions are that bad.
Dr Meredith never embraced the ten commandments. By his behavior, he proved that he believed them impractical, and instead used what 'really works,' i.e., bully morality. Of course, this is common in the ministry. About a year before he died, I watched one of Rods TV programs where he implied that church government has the right to control members minds directly. Implying a lie is a favorite form of deception in the ACOGs, since they have plausible deniability if confronted by the lie. Ownership is defined as control, so Rod claiming ownership of others lives qualifiers him for the lake of fire hands down.
Rod Meredith will not be in the kingdom!
6:54
It is not that I do not understand your position on "DD the apostate" and his "wiles of the devil." You are right, as it is my job to understand what is really being said in official communications and not what the majority "understands the communication to be".
I however also do fully understand DD's position, since he has been open and frank on his journey through life. A life that in my opinion has had far more merit so far than he attributes to it himself. That mode of disparaging himself in public is part of his genetic and cultural heritage, that he himself has scant knowledge of and in my opinion should investigate further. Instead he has chosen to immerse himself in "southern culture" which is alien to frank open sharing of blunt opinions.
nck
Consider how awful Rod Meredith would have been if he was an atheists also.
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