The Age of Ignorance?
Mel Rhodes has posted a piece that appears to be a rebuttal to my post "Faith of Our Fathers: A Racist Legacy." His post, "The Age of Ignorance," opens with a tribute to Handel's The Messiah (with which I have no problem). He wrote: "Today, we live in what can best be described as the age of ignorance.
My first date with the mother of my children was on the occasion of a performance of The Messiah at the Von Braun Civic Center in Huntsville, Alabama. Then, as now, I felt inspired and appreciated the allusion to the fulfillment of God's plan for humankind as outlined in the Judeo-Christian Bible. Hence, my admiration for this composition could never be described as being secular in nature.
And, although the first two Hanoverian kings of Britain recognized Handel's talent, neither of them could fairly be characterized as "Christian" kings - unless we are using that term in the generic sense - as in, Donald Trump is a "Christian" president. George I was an adulterer who imprisoned his wife for seeking solace in the arms of another and had several children with his mistress.
Likewise, George II had several mistresses and was estranged from his father and heir (the Prince of Wales) for many years. Both George's were crude, vindictive men who spoke little English and used the British throne to further the interests of their principality in Germany (NCK objected to my characterization of it as a minor principality in the previous version of this post). Moreover, as far as the "Divine Right of Kings" is concerned, the only reason the Hanoverians ascended the British throne was that Parliament had barred the legitimate heir to the throne from the succession because he was a Roman Catholic!
In fact, the quotation from Dr. Roy Atwood is a perfect example of the kind of sentimental/nostalgic/fairytale history that I referenced in my post. For those who are interested in correcting the errors of their forefathers, the solution is relatively simple. It only requires a little intellectual curiosity, an open mind, a desire to be a better person and faith in God's ability to transform and forgive.
See Mr. Rhodes' post here
Lonnie Hendrix
43 comments:
Melvin Rhodes has been posting ethnic segregationist, borderline racist posts for a long time.
It appeared a few years ago like UCG was letting him out of his "doghouse" to write articles for the magazine again. That doesn't seem to be the case now, and it's probably wise.
Melvin Rhodes says about Handel and his contemporaries: "Theirs was an age of faith. Today, we live in what can best be described as the age of ignorance."
Well, that all depends. Will Rogers said "Everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects." Of course we are ignorant about a number of subjects that denizens of the 18th century knew; just try to read topical literature from that period without footnotes. On the other hand, try to imagine how much supplementary material it would take for subjects of George II to understand writings about plate tectonics, atomic energy, fractal geometry, and other discoveries made by secular scientists during the Age of Reason, which was just getting started back then. Some of the discoverers had faith, but that faith was mostly irrelevant to their discoveries, except when it was detrimental.
So of course we are ignorant, only not about the same things as people back then. But please don't try to make a case that the Age of Reason is the age of ignorance. What an ignorant thing to say.
People today are not so much ignorant as BRAINWASHED. Example: Far more blacks are killed by blacks than by whites, but the media and BLM don't care. Facts are irrelevant to them. They only get pissed when a white kills a black. They don't care if blacks kill whites. EVERYTHING the media does is a LIE, and fools just soak it all up.
This is not an age of reason. People do not use reason. They just repeat the hogwash that has been drilled into their heads over and over. This is called conditioning.
People are full of crap. You can kill babies (abortion) and that is respectable. But tell a truth that they don't want out and YOU are labeled a purveyor of hate speech. Why isn't promoting abortion hate speech? Why aren't the lies they tell about Trump hate speech?
10:15
A great opinion. Hardly sustained by facts however.
I could name a couple of countries that hardly have ANY petty/street crime, like Uzbekistan or Egypt.
Women in Turkmenistan hold up a hand to hike and cars stop to take them along. Crime against hikers is negligable.
My point.
My guess is you wouldn't want to live in any of those countries despite the low petty crime rates. Your point would be that the level and type of crime in those nations is systemically determined.
Now would you believe that a Swiss person would view school shootings in America typical result of systemic determination through American culture and constitutionally defended gun laws.
Now why would you not accept the level and type of black violence as another result of systemic choices by society? Perhaps also including that the system has largely been determined historically by white.
Your statistics don't sway me in condemning the protestors as lies and fools without adressing system failures first.
nck
"Why isn't promoting abortion hate speech?"
On one of the other blogs a person did argue that he did not want to wear face masks in order to save other people. He said, "That's life."
So in fact he promoted "Post Natal Abortion?"
But I didn't call him a murderer, though in fact he was.
It just depends, where you put your argument, in Congress or in Hillsboro.
nck
nck,"A great opinion. Hardly sustained by facts however."
Fact 1
Fact 2
Anonymous (10:15)
Speaking of being brainwashed: Far more Whites are killed by Whites than by Blacks but you people don't care. Facts are irrelevant to you. You only get pissed when a Black kills a White. You don't care if Whites kill Blacks. Everything the media does is verifiable with a little research, but you people just ignore it.
4:02
Ah yes.
I should have said!
I do not dispute the facts.
I do dispute your opinion depending on the level of analysis.
My posting is very clear about that.
Thanks for the effort though.
nck
Retired Prof
I remember our pastor sermoning on Bloom's "The closing of the American mind" early nineties last century.
We in the West speak of "Education." In Germany they speak of "Bildung", which seems to be a bit broader, philosophical,kinda like "the missing dimension". That's why its hard to have a conversation on "great taco's" or "the latest movie" when you're with a bunch of german backpackers in a train to Athens. They are/were so serious and rather discuss the latest architectural feat on their holiday.
nck
Anonymous (11:22) wrote: "Why aren't the lies they tell about Trump hate speech?"
I agree that Trump is the object of a lot of hateful talk and his followers rightfully have a reason to be incensed. I wonder if you are as incensed about the lies told about Barrack Obama. And the chief instigator of those lies was Trump himself. In other words, are you making a statement about justice and equity or just complaining from a partisan point of view?
I was listening to "Fresh Air" with Terry Gross the other day, and she interviewed journalist Isabel Wilkerson about America's caste system. My interest was especially peaked by Ms Wilkerson's response to Terry's question about how she would respond to white folks who say things like "I don't own any slaves" or "My ancestors never owned slaves" or "My ancestors were immigrants who got here long after all of that stuff happened" etc.
She began by acknowledging that none of the folks now living are responsible for what happened back then - no living white folks are/were slave owners and no living black folks are/were slaves. However, she pointed out that we are all like the folks who buy an old house and move into it. We didn't take the measurements, hold the level or build the house. Nevertheless, when we take ownership and move into the house, we are then responsible/liable for it - flaws and all. From that point forward, it is our responsibility to correct problems that threaten us, our family, visitors, etc. - the structural integrity and safety of the structure is on us. That's something that I could relate to - How about you?
"I do dispute your opinion depending on the level of analysis."
Are you hallucinating? I gave no opinion, just factual data.
"crap", "respectable", "truth","kill", "lies" ....... Etc etc only qualifications and therefore opinions my friend.
Nck
Daniel 12:4 - Knowledge shall be increased.
There are facts Nck. Opinions applied to facts do not change the facts.
"should have", "dispute", "opinion depending", "very clear", "the level of analysis", "effort"-- these all need quantifying from your 8:10 post. Or perhaps latitude in communication is acceptable and common sense should be applied.
Miller, I don't like the analogy because it is directed to an individual physical piece of property that you have general control over.
The system, however you define it, is not readily changed by an individual. It is not exactly property particularly when individuals are part of that system. Your home is your own to do as you please, the system has many differing philosophies, cares, concerns, etc. Some people attack the system and some support it. Work on physical matter is highly predictable; work on a system (such as presumed) is highly unpredictable with many already observed unintended consequences.
Presuming I am not Japanese, does the Japanese system need to change as I would not succeed to the level of my political abilities there and I'm not invited to the best parties. Burn it down!
Is nck in charge of this blog? Does he get paid per comment?
Lonnie, why do you persist to hold onto such a provincial view of a worldwide evil? The contrast is inexplicable between the rhetoric about past slavery in the United States and those who continue to ignore the traumas of slavery still taking place in the world today. If we are obsessed with slavery, why not start a crusade to end the modern day slavery that still exists in places like Mauritania, the Sudan, and parts of Nigeria and Benin. We could expand it to human trafficking too. Why would anyone wish to arbitrarily understate an evil that plagued mankind for thousands of years, unless it was not this evil itself that was the real concern, but rather the present day uses of that historic evil?
Clearly,the ability to score ideological points against American society or Western civilization, or to induce guilt and thereby extract benefits from the white population today, are greatly enhanced by making enslavement appear to be a peculiarly American, or a peculiarly white crime. Which troubles you more? A verbal picture of the abuses of slaves in America long ago, or contemporary photographs of present day slaves in Time magazine, the New York Times or the National Geographic and let's also throw human trafficking in there as well?
Jim,
You make an interesting point about the inherent difficulty in one person attempting to change a system. And yet, Abraham Lincoln told the nation that a house divided against itself could not stand. And, although he did make a considerable contribution to changing that reality, we know that there were many hundreds of thousands of soldiers who contributed to that change. But isn't that the nature of the American system - courageous individuals pushing and leading collective action that makes a tangible difference? America is a democratic republic. For those of us who call it home, I would say that it is both our right and responsibility to improve it and make it safer and more comfortable for everyone who shares this space with us.
DBP,
I am acutely aware that slavery still exists in many places in the world. I would also say that we Americans continue to benefit from the institution in the form of slave wages in mines and factory sweatshops overseas. I know that human trafficking exists all over the world (including the U.S.) in terms of sex slaves. Some would say that our current migrant farm labor system has many of the same features of the peculiar institution.
My remarks were not intended to be provincial or insensitive to these other realities. However, as Jim suggested in his remarks, I am trying to make a difference in my own home - I have a greater chance of making a difference here than in some of those other deplorable situations. Moreover, I have no interest in scoring ideological points against American society or Western civilization - just in addressing/ameliorating systemic problems that were created by some of my forefathers here.
Miller Jones: "I would also say that we Americans continue to benefit from the institution in the form of slave wages in mines and factory sweatshops overseas."
That has been recently ameliorated by bringing manufacturing jobs back to the USA where Americans can now earn a living wage. Plus, it protects the underprivileged from being taken advantage of. Free Trade leads to that kind of exploitation. On the other hand, Fair Trade promotes greater equity in international trading partnerships through dialogue, transparency, and respect. It promotes sustainable development by offering better trading conditions to, and securing the rights of, marginalized producers and workers in developing countries. This is in contrast to Free Trade which promotes the unequal distribution of wealth between nations. Buying products from producers in developing countries at a fair price is a more efficient way of promoting sustainable development than traditional charity and aid. You could think of illegal immigration as being synonymous with free trade but I think it is worse than that. It allows human trafficking. I'm all for legal immigration as long as it does not adversely affect the living wages of American citizens. See, things are getting better if you are not blinded by the current propaganda of systemic racism, which is nothing more than a ploy of Moral Panic.
Yes Jim
I believe "facts" can be caused.
I even gave specific examples for the stupid. I even used the example of the US Constitution CAUSED "the fact of school shootings" as collateral, where other nations CHOSE to CAUSE the facts and statistics to be different.
Facts are often choices rather thsn givens.
Another person commented on this blog and I loved it and will amend the comment a bit.
A lot of people here use "facts" like a drunkard uses a lampstand to support their theories, while others use them as illumination to better themselves and society since EVERYTHING is a construct.
Nck
"Presuming I am not Japanese, does the Japanese system need to change as I would not succeed to the level of my political abilities there and I'm not invited to the best parties. Burn it down!"
Those are the EXACT questions General MacArthur faced in 1945.
And why HWA got his medal!!!!!!!!!!! (which was not an insignicant photo opp award)
nck
Btw
If Miller and DBP keep up their excellent discussions I can safely retire to "my place of safety."
DBP voices many of the points of my thesis on the perils of "the unseen hand" for the common good.
DBP and I should be able to share a "slave free" chocolate bar in the future or call on a cell phone for which no underpaid miner slaved to extract critical necessary ore. Or perhaps enjoy watching a soccer game in a stadium at the Emirates for which only 1 worker died by accident.
Nck
Not on this site it won't.
The Opening from Charles Dicken's "Tale of Two Cities"...
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us..."
DBP, Lonnie, ie, Miller has some outdated ideas left over from the 70's and 80's. It is his left bent that blinds him from a full view, obstructing the free flow of truly relevant information.
If we are to talk about slavery, in truth we all support it. How? The American industrial prison complex.
Why don't these lives matter?
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/blog/congo-child-labour-mobile-minerals
https://townhall.com/columnists/pauldriessen/2020/08/08/why-dont-these-black-lives-matter-n2573964
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2020/01/13/are-these-tech-companies-complicit-in-human-rights-abuses-of-child-cobalt-miners-in-congo/#6ad31a3b1788
Yet Lonnie isn't on here to change his little corner of the world. He's your typical leftist just out to cause trouble, though he's blind to this fact. He lies to himself claiming to be centrist, yeah, like Kamala is a pragmatic moderate. Bullshit!
Good one Opinionated.
Miller does know about the 13th amendment though, I know.
Major Corporations, big names, employing a huge black labor force for 10cts per hour.
Best invention evah.....NOT.
Nck
Tonto,
I love Dickens, and that is one of the best openings in literature! Always appropriate - even in our day.
DBP and Opinionated,
From my perspective, you guys are blind to systemic racism. We all need to ask more questions. Why black crime? Why black incarceration? Why such economic disparity between white Americans and people of color? Could it have anything to do with access to educational opportunities? Is it possible that our criminal justice system is inherently biased against African Americans?
NCK is right about the choices we still have to make - just like our forefathers. And it would be very difficult to enjoy that slave free chocolate bar with him or experience a sporting event that was untainted by the suffering of someone.
You criticize me for buying the propaganda of the mainstream media or drinking the left's leftover Kool-Aid from the 70's and 80's; but I would say that you've "swallowed hook, line and sinker" the right's narrative that everything is now hunky dory - and we are all playing on a level field with equal opportunity for everyone. Sounds like Pollyanna/wishful thinking to me. Reality is always more complex and messy than these left/right narratives suggest.
Framing these issues as left vs right and retreating to our corners solves nothing and precludes progress. Like you, I am an independent thinker. You may perceive me to be a lefty, but that doesn't mean I am. In fact, the only political party that I have ever belonged to is the Republican Party. I am NOW an INDEPENDENT voter - not affiliated with either party or the ideologies which they purport to represent.
I am proud to be an American and a Christian. That does not, however, prevent me from seeing that both the history and current circumstances of the USA and Christianity reflect real problems - areas that are ripe for improvement (and so it has ever been).
True Lonnie,
My advice for the voting season.
Voting isn’t marriage – it’s public transport.
“You are not waiting for “the one” who is absolutely perfect. You are getting the bus. And if there isn’t one going exactly to your destination, you don’t stay at home and sulk – you take the one going closest to where you want to be.”
nck
Lonnie is a she not a he.
Anonymous 8/13 @ 1:29
Last time I checked, I was male.
August 13, 2020 at 10:13 AM
Kamala for Wakanda
Miller Jones,
Systemic racism or systemic oppression has no real meaning that can be specified and tested in the way that one tests hypotheses. In my opinion, this is similar to Joseph Goebbels propaganda. "People will believe any lie if it is repeated long enough and loud enough." People who use the phrase "systemic racism" can't even give a clear and concise idea about what it is. The purpose is to just get other people to just "cave in" and except marxist ideology and a pogrom. Except this time it is aimed at people who would consider themselves under a "white identity." You think I'm exaggerating? Just keep waiting for it. They say, the color of your skin determines who can be racist and not. White Priviledge. If you are to believe that, then that would be systemic racism but not against who you might think!
Your questions have answers but you'll never find them if you only look through the dirty lens of "sytemic racism." Their math will say that 2+2=5.
DBP,
Systemic racism is the prejudice and preference that exists in a society (like the United States) as a consequence of having been built into the system by those who created that society (like white Europeans in the case of the United States). In other words, both the beneficiaries and those who are being disadvantaged can be (and often are - witness you) completely unaware that they are part of such a system.
This is the kind of racism that stems from geographical location, the availability of educational opportunities, the availability of certain jobs, access to a healthy diet, access to adequate health care, access to adequate housing, the ability to participate in corporate and political leadership and how the person is treated by the criminal justice system. A concrete example? A descendant of slaves is born and raised in a government housing project in Birmingham, Alabama. He/she is raised by his/her single mother and attends an inner city school that is underfunded and mostly black. Because he/she doesn't have private health care, his/her primary access to medical care is a visit to the overcrowded emergency room at the local hospital.
Two hours to the North, in Huntsville, a white transplant from Ohio lives in a gated community. His/her father has a good paying government job on Redstone Arsenal, and his/her mother is a successful real-estate agent. He/she has Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance and attends a private Christian Academy.
Systemic racism is real. It isn't an illusion, and you can see it through a clean lens. You just have know what you're looking for and accept what you see when you find it. Systemic racism does odd things to math: 2 + 2 may equal four for a white person, or it may equal two for a black person. Of course, we can always find exceptions to the rule - a white steelworker in Pittsburgh who has lost his job or a young black man from Chicago who becomes President of the United States (the exceptions don't disprove that systemic racism exists). It is real. It is definable, and it is measurable.
Miller,
What system are you talking about that is racist? Or is it the individuals of this system that are racist? Who are these individuals? Can you name a few?
I believe racism can only exist in a sentient being, so you must be referring to individuals. Who currently?
In your last post, you only described a condition. What is the mechanism of the system that creates this condition. Who most readily maintains the current condition? Who began the current condition? When do you believe the disparity between blacks and whites began to further expand? Why?
I accept most of the conditions you cite and that it does disadvantage blacks though inner city schools seem to have higher spending per student than most schools. Still, what exacerbated this? Did Pres. Lyndon Johnson do great damage to our black population? Did the breakdown of the black family in the 60s play the largest role? Were these occurrences designed? Was Johnson's great society actually racist?
What makes the black population fare worse than other minority populations (seemingly everywhere on every continent)?
Sorry, too many questions. Ignore or cherry pick from among these questions.
Jim,
Questions are good, that's how we learn! Since we are speaking of systemic racism, anyone who lives in our society is subject to the effects of this kind of racism. Hence, any white citizen of the United States could be considered a beneficiary of institutional/systemic racism. Likewise any black citizen of these United States could be a victim of it.
As I suggested in my above comments, a person may be completely unaware of institutional/systemic racism. Hence, this kind of racism only becomes personal and overt when a person becomes aware of the relative advantages and disadvantages inherent to such a system and embraces them or refuses to take any action to ameliorate them.
Several of your questions dealt with the origins of the disadvantages that you admit exist. Although we still have much to learn about the relative roles of nature vs nurture in determining our circumstances and identity, we do know that family dynamics have a tendency to be repeated down through the generations. Along those lines, we know that African Americans were deprived of secure familial circumstances during slavery, were prevented from accumulating any wealth and property of their own and were also mostly denied the opportunity of receiving even a rudimentary education. Hence, we can see how these conditions can become systemic within individual families, and how they could easily become institutionalized in the way that an African American would be treated in our society down through the generations.
As you know, the Civil Rights Movement of the 60's addressed more overt forms of racism (folks could eat at the lunch counter and didn't have to sit on the back of the bus anymore). The Voting Rights Act enabled African Americans to participate in the governance of this Republic. As you know, Johnson's Great Society was meant to address some of the economic inequities inherent in our system - to lift the poor out of poverty. Unfortunately, those programs have not achieved the desired end - the wealth disparity continues, and African Americans continue to confront more obstacles than most White Americans in changing that reality.
Miller Jones,
So, you are saying that the color of someones skin does actually determine who can be racist or not? And, the people who are well off supposedly benefited from racism, while those who are suffering are victims of racism? Geographical locations are now racist too? You see racism everywhere the way some people see sexism everywhere. Did you know that 92% of all people killed by cops are men? Extrapolating from your logic, that would mean that the cops are more sexist than racist. People see what they want to see. Teaching people, regardless of their race or sex, that 2+2=4 is fundamental to a sound epistemology. Systemic Racism is full of assumptions with no regard for proof, just blind faith.
DBP
Systemic racism it seems is when the people in the system, not even the ones it concerns that its there, whilst it is obvious for those outside that it is rampant.
It't like jews in the ghetto, saying its so convenient to live close to the synagogue.
Its not an american thing. Huge swaths of "eastern europe" have 11th century "german" villages and slavic villages.
Also in England you have "Visby" etc all the "by" s which were Danes and "Wesses" or Northhamp....."tun" distinctly Saxon.
Racists..... all.
Nck
"Blogger nck said...
"crap", "respectable", "truth","kill", "lies" ....... Etc etc only qualifications and therefore opinions my friend.
Nck
August 12, 2020 at 11:32 AM"
Nck, obviously the person that you're writing to is a modern day Journalist. A Journalist's job is to report facts without opining, but today they're taught to opine while denying that that's what they're doing.
6:57
I easily forgive those that don't know what they're doing.
Even worse are journslists that ask about politicians feelings, or worse the feelings of the man on the street on trade sanctions on Ukraine.
I was shocked the other day to see a german ice cold blonde anchor woman who I at times watch for her frugal delivery appear in a holiday program with a shanty choir of sailors, drinking a beer. She will never be the same to me, she is human now.
Nck
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