Friday, October 21, 2022

Crackpot Elijah Perturbed Weinland and Pack Claim Elijah Mantle



Where would the Church of God be without having some COG leader getting his sacred knickers in a twist over labels of importance?

For decades the church looked at Herbert Armstrong as an apostle and then as carrying the Elijah mantle. Then the unthinkable happened. Elijah died and a void was left for some other crackpot Church of God leader to step up to the plate and claim those titles.

Gerald Flurry took on those titles as proof of his standing with his god. Flurry would eventually call himself "king" since he was in possession of the new coronaton stone. Then there was Ronnie Weinland, the first certified COG felon. He too, claims the Elijah mantle and says he is one of the two witless witnesses - his dingy wife is witnessed #2. Even Dave Pack had to get into the Elijah role which he has so mangled with one false prophecy after another that even Herbert is rolling over in his grave.

All of these Elijahs running around has really ticked off the ONE TRUE Elijah and he is NOT happy! How dare Gerry and Dave claim to be Elijah when HE is the ONE TRUE Elijah!!!! How dare they.

The perpetually butthurt prophet and the ONE TRUE Elijah has this to say about these that refuse to believe he is the Chosen One:

Yet, the Bible does show that there will be an ‘Elijah’ who is alive before Jesus returns and that it is likely that he will be one of the two witnesses. And as Jesus is likely to return within the next couple of decades, it is reasonable to consider that he must be alive today. 
 
Could he be one who has restored information on church history, doctrine, prophecy, and the reason that God created anything? Could he be one reaching people around the world with the Gospel of the Kingdom of God in nearly 100 different languages? Or has God not chosen to have him do much at this stage?

Crackpot Bwana Bob has been tooting his horn for several years now with his claim he is producing more literature in more languages than any other COG is today. He's not, even though he claims he is. Christians around the world have been doing a more powerful job of getting the REAL gospel out instead of the make-believe farce Bob is promoting as truth.

The Great Bwana claims Herbert did not realize that he was not Elijah and that another one was to come. Which of course, in Bob's eyes, means his perfect self. For some unknown reason, Bwana Bob continues to use Dibar Apartian as a voice of authority. Apartian was one of the most disliked men ever put over the French-speaking people of Europe and elsewhere and most of them would never use Apartian as a source of authority or truth.

Yes, HWA expressed some doubt. Herbert W. Armstrong admitted to Aaron Dean, his long-time personal aide (and Aaron Dean told me this personally on several occasions for over the past two decades) that he might not have understood the biblical passages on the Elijah correctly before he died, and that God could raise someone else up to fulfill the Elijah role. Furthermore, HWA specifically expressed doubt to the late evangelist Dibar Apartian (and who also told me). Dibar Apartian did not believe that HWA was the Elijah when we discussed this several times and he agreed with me about this.

Bob's lies about himself just get worse as he continues on:

Now since the Church age has not ended, and the Day of the Lord has not yet come, then it follows that Elijah was to come on the scene publicly after this was written.
HWA, himself, wrote:

Jesus shall come, SOON NOW, to RESTORE ALL THINGS! He did NOT restore all things when he first came. John the Baptist did not “restore all things.” But the one who was to “restore all things” just before the “day of the Lord” and preparing the way for Christ’s second coming, was YET to come, in the future, as Jesus said. Now what are the “all things” to be RESTORED? “Restitution” means restore to a former state or condition (Armstrong HW. Brethren & Co-Worker Letter, August 24, 1982). 
 
Note that HWA states ONE (Elijah) comes just before the day of the Lord—an event that still has not occurred, hence some additional restoration beyond what HWA did is needed–and this has been happening in the Continuing Church of God. CCOG has restored more than any COG in the 21st century and under the human leadership of Bob Thiel it continues to do so. In time, God will make the final Elijah clear to all willing to see (this is NOT saying that he MUST be Bob Thiel–but we believe it will be a leader in CCOG).

Never has the COG had such a skillful shoveler of bullshit than we have in the Great Bwana today! The lies have been going on for so long that Bob actually believes them himself. 


Don't worry, that pile just gets deeper as Bwana Bob makes claims he has restored ALL things. Why is it that the god of Armstrongism has been such a wimpy ineffectual creature for so many centuries? Satan, the most powerful god of Armsgtrongism, has been so good at what he is doing that God cannot complete his plan. For centuries the earth has been groaning for a savior to arise and restore all things. Bob is that man.....what a hoot!

CCOG: Restoring All Things 
 
Jesus stated that an Elijah to come would restore all things (Mathew 17:11). Did Herbert W. Armstrong restore anything? Consistent with Daniel 12:4, were there truths that were to be restored in the 21st century? What are some that have been restored? What about church history, the original catholic church, the faith once for all delivered to the saints, and apostolic succession? What were the last days signs of Acts 2:17-18? What about teachings on violent sports, the fulness of the Gentiles, using scores of languages to help fulfill Matthew 24:14, non-trinitarian ramifications, prophetic matters, the identity of the man of sin, Daniel 11:39 and the start of the Great Tribulation, the identity of Samaria, the connection between Habakkuk 2:1-8 and the United States of America, the final phase of the work, the mark of the Beast, and the third resurrection? Has the Continuing Church of God been restoring matters in the 21st century? Dr. Thiel addresses these questions and more.

This is the lie Bwana Bob actually believes:

The Elijah’s restoring of “all things” means that he is to be restoring information that the true Church of God once understood, but later must have lost or misunderstood. 
 
The problem is that just as many would not hear Elijah’s or John the Baptist’s messages, relatively few will pay much attention to the end time Elijah as well.


 

 





23 comments:

Anonymous said...

They are all just playing mudpies, and taking their individual statures in that game way too seriously. You'd almost think they believe it's real!

Anonymous said...

I read this………………and my head exploded.
I think another title we can add to Bob’s impressive list is Pathetic.

Yet there is an audience for this nonsense.
I don’t know what’s more troubling, the audience or the claimants to ‘Elijah’s’ mantle?
What is no surprise, as Armstrongism dies a slow death, the absurd claims become more frequent and louder.

Anonymous said...

“the connection between Habakkuk 2:1-8 and the United States of America”.

There is no connection.

"Prooftexting (sometimes "proof-texting" or "proof texting") is the practice of using isolated, out-of-context quotations from a document to establish a proposition in eisegesis. Such quotes may not accurately reflect the original intent of the author, and a document quoted in such a manner, when read as a whole, may not support the proposition for which it was cited" (Wikipedia).

Context:

Hab 1:3 Why dost thou show me iniquity, and cause me to behold grievance? for spoiling and violence are before me: and there are that raise up strife and contention.
Hab 1:4 Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth.

Hab 1:6 For [ki], lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs.

“The surprising act of YHWH is stated in verse 6,introduced by the Hebrew particle ki, For. He is going to raise up the Chaldeans, also known as the Babylonians, A foreign power is going to be an instrument in the hands of YHWH to act against the injustices Habakkuk has complained about...” (S. D. Snyman, Nahum. Habakkuk and Zephaniah, TOTC, p.59).

Hab 2:4 “See, he is puffed up; his desires are not upright - but the righteous will live by his faith - (NIV).

“2:4 he. Collective for the Babylonians, but with special reference to their king” (NIVSB).

“The people described here might best be understood as the Babylonians, but also those Habakkuk complained about initially, namely the people within Judah who are responsible for the destruction, violence, strife and conflict that has resulted in the Torah being paralysed and justice perverted” (S. D. Snyman, Nahum. Habakkuk and Zephaniah, TOTC, p.70).

Hab 2:5b he gathers to himself all the nations and takes captive all the peoples.
Hab 2:6a Shall not all these take up a parable against him, and a taunting proverb against him, and say...

“Hab 2:5 ... forms the transition to the taunting proverb taken up against the Chaldean by the nations. This proverb is in the form of a prophecy in which woes are pronounced on the lust of conquest, rapacity, selfish pride and idolatry of the people, and their ruin is predicted, for their vices carry in them their own recompense. The woes are five in number, beginning with Hab 2:6; 2:9; 2:12; 2:15; 2:18. Though the nations take up the woes, as the passage proceeds the prophet himself appears to speak”. (Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges).

Hab 1:13b wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

Hab 2:3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.

“Yahweh gave Hababkkuk one more word of caution before he told him the answer to his question of theodicy. He said that Habakkuk needs to learn to wait. God’s time is not necessarily man’s time, Habakkuk wanted his answer immediately. He wanted God to punish the Babylonians and put an end to evil and oppression right then. God said that he had appointed a time for all that to happen but it might not happen immediately. Habakkuk, like all of us, was living “between the times,” between the promise and the fulfillment. Habakkuk was to wait in faith for God to act. He was assured that judgment on evil would surely come. It will not be late (v3). But Habakkuk was not to wait with folded hands and bated breath for all this to happen. He was to live a life of faithfulness (v4). The evil one is puffed up with pride and he will fail (vv4-5), but the righteous will live by being faithful to his covenant with God...” (Ralph L. Smith, Micah-Malachi, WBC, p.107).

DennisCDiehl said...

Bob Thiel, while coming across as rather weak of presence and short on the ability to convince anyone of anything is as deeply delusional and seriously mentally unstable, with religious content, as any of them. All of these men are promoting a fairy tale of their own creation and are wasting their lives and the lives of others doing so.

Hoss said...

If CCOG doesn't dissolve first, one day, as Bob is pushing up the daisies, someone else will assume his self-appointed role and make similar, or even more bizarre claims. And the bleat goes on...

Tonto said...

Bobo Thiel:

I WILL BECOME YOUR FOLLOWER AND SUPPORTER INSTANTLY!

Simply post here the answers to the following questions...

***The name of my first dog.

***The city that my mother was born in, and her nickname as a kid

*** Street name that I grew up on.

***My all-time favorite baseball player

Answer these Elijah Bobo, and I will be your biggest promoter, guaranteed!

RSK said...

It is funny to see them reacting to tbe fact that Armstrong has been dead for close to forty years at this point and is a virtual unknown today - obviously he did not prepare the way for any Christ. Watching them invent these workarounds to explain that is rather gratifying.

Anonymous said...

As evidence of Bob's "deeply delusional.....with religious content":

Bob Thiel Oct 21, 2022, says: "Jesus warned the Laodiceans since they would not ‘get with the program,’ that they would be punished (Revelation 3:14-18)."

Revelation does not say that.

It looks like the Laodicean does need to repent (verse 19) such as STOP telling people that tithing is commanded today (oh the irony: "gold tried in the fire").

Anonymous said...

All of these men are promoting a fairy tale of their own creation ...

Actually, they are promoting a doom and gloom tale created by lying Rabbis thousands of years ago.

Interestingly, many Christians today seem to be turning to these same lying Rabbis in droves. It is strange that Christians reject their own status as the new chosen people (the new Israel) and now get their prophecy from the Rabbis who Jesus rejected and who rejected Jesus.

LCG observer said...

How is ccog's work turning the hearts of parents toward their children and the hearts of the children to their parents? This can't be skipped over in Malachi.

DW said...

Things God and Jesus NEVER said:

Behold, I will send many Elijiahs before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. You may choose which one is genuine, for My Father and I are testing you. No, never said that. Matthew 11:13-14, All the prophets as well as the law spoke prophetically UNTIL John the Baptist. If you are prepared to accept it, he IS ELIJIAH, the one who WAS certain to come.

2. That is why, to me, David C. Pack, a prisoner for Christ Jesus, on behalf of you Gentiles, God's secret plan was revealed. When you read what I have said, in speaking of the mystery, It is no less than this. I will end the mystery of god and Jesus will return to Wadsworth Ohio. No, never said that. Ephesians 3:3-6 speaks of Paul's assignment to take the Gospel of Grace to the Gentiles, now co-heirs with the Jews, members of the same body. Mystery solved 2,000 years ago.


There shall be many prophets and many apostles in the end times, although they are mere mortal men and can make mistakes, one or more specific prophetic failure really doesn't matter. No, never said that. Deuteronomy 18:22, One wrong prophetic guess is enough to disqualify that prophet. Do not fear or follow that false prophet or you will be disobeying God's command.

The Lord thy God loves a conceited and proud heart and has a special fondness for long lists of 30-50 bullet points. No never said that. 2 Corinthians 10:12-18, We are not so bold as to classify or compare ourselves with certain people who recommend themselves. Since people like that are their own appraisers, comparing themselves with one and other, they only demonstrate their ignorance. It is not the man who recommends himself who is approved, but the man whom the Lord recommends.

If he shall get more prophetic guesses right than wrong, that man shall you follow and obey in all things. That is good enough for Us. The Lord shall require you to follow a man, for He is eventually going to become a god like us anyway. Nope never said that. You are not going to become little gods and goddesses and guesses don't count with the Lord.

You get the point. I just wish Bob and Dave and Gerald, et al would see the light. If by chance they should read this, please, please think again about this. You are claiming to speak for Almighty God. Almighty God. The gravity of that truth alone should scare the pants off you. How will you answer Him when He says, I did not send you. I did not doubly bless you, nor did I ever say I would pass along the mantle to another man some 4,000 years later. I did not give you the authority to say, "On God's authority brethren..." Please, for the genuine love of God, think about what you are claiming again while you still can.

Hoss said...

LCG observer asked, How is ccog's work turning the hearts of parents toward their children and the hearts of the children to their parents?

Bob said something about that not long ago -- I think it was somehow covered by Cartoon Bob and his Bible Lessons.

I watched Bob's sermon on CCOG vs Messianics ... Bob said something like, All they (Messianics) do is talk about how much they know. Ironic comparison...

Anonymous said...

Hab 2:1-8 may not be referring to the U.S. specifically but the vision (v2) is still applicable. The prophecy is really against Judah (whose sins were greater, by the way), since he prophesied of the coming Chaldean invasion (1:6). Manneseh (U.S.) had already been taken into captivity by the Assyrians earlier.

No, the coming Elijah isn't Thiel. He's much bolder than him.

Still, many of you people won't believe him until it's too late.

Anonymous said...

To prove I'm not a false or true prophet: answers to Tonto: Spot. Bakersfield - Liz. Maple. DiMaggio.

Anonymous said...

The joke is on them! They come to a knowledge of what they believe to be "the truth". Then, as they meditate and fantasize, they begin to imagine or aspire to a special role in this truth. And, in all fairness to them, what seemingly reaches out and grabs them is no longer recognizable as fantasy. They think it's real, take an active role in it, and program their lives soas to prepare the way for Jesus Christ. So, they sacrifice, and do all of this work, but it is all for nought, because Jesus doesn't show. And, though they fail to accept this fact during their natural lives, it means that it wasn't Jesus who chose them to prepare the way for Him, they did it presumptuously all by themselves, probably wasting their real talents and true calling.

Seriously, I take Bob Thiel and Dave Pack's callings as purveyors of vitamins and supplements much more seriously than their imaginary callings as preparers for Jesus Christ. But, at least their particular craziness hasn't taken them out on the streets raping women, stealing old ladies' purses, or shooting up schools. And they haven't shaved their heads, bought white robes, flip flops, and tamborines and aren't at the airport chanting "hare Krisna!" So, is their a place in normalcy for them? I might be tempted to answer "maybe" if they weren't exploiting the resources of others! So, as the Who once sang, "Let's forget them better still!"

DW said...

To Anon @2:54...you should have quoted the following verse from that song by The Who, We won't get fooled again! HWA fooled them all once and this current crop fooled themselves and others again.

I just read the article on our prophlet again and I have to say, his writing is atrocious and not his strong suit. But why does he always have to do these ridiculously long, convoluted and disjointed bullet points? That alone shows you the mind of confusion that indwells this guy. We all know God is not the author of confusion, but of a sound mind. Bob's god IS the author of confusion and the father of lies.

I went to his cog writer site yesterday and read his tome on the "lies"of Rod, Gary, Lonnie, Dennis, et al at Banned and, man he hates you guys! He was rehashing his double blessing, Loma dream part 2, YET AGAIN, and two things struck me in his article. First, does he really expect people to believe that ALL of the people he mentions are lying and he is the only one telling the truth? Really Bob? If Rod was such a liar, why should anyone believe that your so called prophet status was the one time he told the truth about you? Secondly, this article had to be 75 pages long, at least. I scrolled down and down and down and I am not sure I ever got to the end. His excessive verbosity is another red flag for a very confused thought process and mental issues. His poor family. He must be miserable to live with.

Tonto said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
To prove I'm not a false or true prophet: answers to Tonto: Spot. Bakersfield - Liz. Maple. DiMaggio.

MY RESPONSE:
Sorry, but you better keep your "day job" as you are not a Prophet. However, thanks for trying, which is still better than BOBO's response!

Tonto said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Let me have a go at being a prophet.

Rastus, Bremen Germany, Liesl, School St., Roberto Clemente.

Zippo said...

Tonto, you know how Bob works. If you were to reveal the correct answers, Bob would possibly, maybe, kind of find something he said, wrote, dreamed that shows he actually revealed the answers.

Anonymous said...

There are nearly as many words on the home page of Bob's Cogwriter site than there are in the books of Psalms or Jeremiah. There are more words on that home page than in any Bible book other than those two. Excessive wordiness is often recognized as one symptom of mental illness. Bob has a very special gift for using an abundance of words yet saying remarkably little.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Bob's COGWriter website could certainly do with a do-over. Reformatting and layout changes would make it far less ineffective. His /gnews.htm section looks like an unending ramble as well.

Herbert the W stands for nothing Armstrong said...

The narcissists do their end time cosplay and compare their piles of shit, telling everyone to live for the end of the world and send them the money they claim is the root of all evil. What an UTTER waste of the gift of life. The root of all evil is the narcissists like them who con the world. They will be remembered by history with the fondness of Hitler's henchmen.