Bob Thiel Lecturing Harold Camping Acolytes

Chiropractor/Herbalist Bob Thiel is setting Harold Camping's cult straight with the 'truth of gawd."  Bob wants Camping's group to know that they have been deceived.  They are fools because they have wrong dates and wrong theology.  Only God's revealed word through Roderick (Spanky) Meredith contains the true word for all humanity.

And of course, since he ignored the calendar in the Bible, Harold Camping did not even have the correct date for Pentecost in 2011.  Pentecost will be on June 12th this year, and no, Jesus will not be coming then either.  There are too many biblically-required events that need to happen first and there is not enough time between now and then for them to happen.

Thiel has been in communication with some of Campings acolytes.  Now that Camping's prophecy failed Bob is hoping they see the true light and come to the true Church.

Yet sadly, at least one Camping supporter, without any refuting facts, said that my article had not sufficiently persuaded him that Harold Camping was wrong a few months ago.  Now, hopefully with their blinders off, more of Harold Camping’s supporters will be willing to take a more objective view and see that what I wrote is true, and of course, always had to have been true.

 You can read more of Bob's warning to Camping's followers here Harold Campings Teachings About the End of the World Do Not Agree With the Bible   Barf bag may be need for the sheer hypocrisy in Bob's screed.


Chiropractor Bob goes on to write:

The iniquity of false prophets such as Harold Camping, Ronald Weinland (who still claims that Jesus will come on May 27, 2012), and others will turn various people off about prophecy. More will feel comfortable being scoffers. And this rise of scoffers who will not believe in prophecy is also foretold in the Bible by the Apostle Peter:

Thiel is not happy with WeinerDude Weinland's prophecies, but what about Meredith's? What about the iniquity of the liar and false prophet Roderick C Meredith?  What about all of his documented lies and failed prophesies?  What about Herbert Armstrong's?  What About Gerald Waterhouses's?  What about Dean Blackwell's?    What about Herman Hoeh's? What about LCG's predictions that there are 6-12 years left?   You are starting to look as stupid as Camping right now!

UCG Now Claimning There is Only Three or Four Years Left?

After the abysmal failure of Harold Camping last past weekend (May 21, 2011) you would think UCG would keep their mouths shut about end time prophecy.  But no, they can't.  They can't because they are "God's TRUE Church" and therefore are privilege to special hidden knowledge. 

The UCG Council has informed the ministry that they will be dumped from the UCG retirement programs because UCG over extended themselves with television obligations and now have to pay up.

But not to worry!  You sheeple ministers won't be needing it anyway because we only have three or four years left. 

Stupid, stupid men!  With over seventy years worth of documented failed prophecies you would think that they would have learned to keep their mouths shut.  Seventy years worth of blatant lies and they still continue on with more lies.  Stupid, stupid men!

Herbert Armstrong and L Ron Hubbard

In Memoriam: Two Con Men, Herbert W. Armstrong and L. Ron Hubbard

Armstrong and Hubbard

Twenty-five years ago this week, the two greatest con men of the 20^th century both died, within the space of eight days of each other. The creativity and sheer chutzpah of Herbert W. Armstrong and L. Ron Hubbard are worth remembering, and in some ways even treasuring as a species of human achievement, with the same sort of awe one reserves for the destructive power of a tsunami. Though both men were failures in the business world, when they turned to religion they discovered a sucker market of breathtaking scope.

Herbert W. Armstrong, born in 1892, worked at several jobs in the world of commercial advertising, failing at each. In the 1920s, he decided that religion was an easier racket, and fought to take control of a small congregation in Oregon. He failed at that, too, but on his way out the door managed to take the mailing list with him.

In 1935 Armstrong launched Plain Truth magazine, initially in mimeographed form; at about the same time he began regular radio broadcasts. To distinguish himself from the evangelical pack, Armstrong specialized in prophecy. He got lucky when an early prophecy, that Mussolini would conquer Ethiopia, actually came to pass. That a mechanized army would defeat spear-carrying tribesmen may seem to be not going too far out on a limb, but Armstrong hyped it into something special.

More prophecies followed, as Armstrong discovered that his audiences ate them up: Italy would conquer Palestine; then Russia would attack Palestine; then Britain would fall to the Germans; then German armies would appear on American shores. The accuracy rate began to deteriorate, but in wartime America where censorship kept the news bland and upbeat, Armstrong’s juicy predictions built his following.

The end of the German threat in 1945 would have dealt a lesser man a serious blow. Armstrong responded by assuring his readers and listeners – for decades on end – that Hitler was still alive, and ready to strike again any minute now.

There is much more to the article at Secular News Daily

One interesting tidbit I learned recently was that L Ron Hubbard was a distant relative of Elbert Hubbard who HWA idolized as a great thinker.

Divorce and Remarriage

Of all the teachings of Herbert Armstrong that he taught, the most vile was the Divorce and Remarriage doctrine.  Hundreds of families were destroyed by this asinine teaching.  Rod Meredith had his hand in destroying countless marriages too.  He forced apart long time married couples in the Dayton area who had been previously married.  Meredith was as sick as Armstrongism when it came to enforcement.  Of course that all changed when Herb decided he wanted to marry his secretary.  Suddenly it was ok for couple to remain married.  Some tied to go back to their previous spouses, but too many years had passed.

There is a thread on Facebook about people who's families were destroyed by Armstrong and Meredith.  Two are quoted below.

My Story: In 1968 when I was 4yrs old, and my sister was 9mos old. A pastor from our local WCG congregation came and told my parents that because my father had divorced his 1st wife, and later married our mother. Their marriage was not valid according to God, and therefore was not accepted, and honored by God. He told my father to move out immediately because he was living in sin. My dad did, and because they told him not to have contact with us, he moved about 500 miles away. My sister and I never got to bond with our dad. Because my dads' income was what we lived on, we fell into a terrible poverty. Mom tried to hold down the fort working 2 menial jobs, and trying to pay 3 tithes, there wasn't enough to sustain us, and we had to go on welfare. Then 4yrs later in 1972, while we were at church, the pastor walks up out of the blue, and tells my mother that the D&R doctrine had been amended, and that she was free to reconcile with her husband. My mom looked at him and said "you've got to be joking". Later she said she'd wanted to slap that pastor. I was later able to spend a little time with my dad, but the damage had been done, and we never bonded, and years would go by without us seeing, or talking to him. He is alive today, and I've forgiven him, but i haven't seen or spoken to him in 9 years.

___________

My parents had a different problem. My dad was in the Church, but my mom wasn't, she hated it and hated that my dad sent them so much money. It destroyed their marriage (I have to admit it might have fell apart anyway who knows). My mom tried to get a divorce, but back then (1960's) it was really hard to get divorced. My dad wouldn't allow her to get a divorce. She had no means of support being a stay at home mom and didn't want to leave her children. My dad could not divorce her because he knew he could never remarry and find a new partner. They lived together for years without speaking, the children had to relay messages, plus my dad became abusive towards my mother and she fought back. The police were constantly called to our house. Eventually they threatened to take the children away, so my mother stopped fighting, and became an alcoholic instead, and then a drug addict, and then became mentally ill. Eventually they threw my dad out of the church and after studying the Bible himself he decided that the D and R rules were wrong, and he went and made up for lost time having many girlfriends. My mom got put in a mental hospital and never regained her sanity.

Andie Redwine: What Happens on May 22?

Andie Redwine reflects on "The Day After May 21" and her experience with the same kind of lies when Herbert Armstrong made a similar prediction.;

Forgive my cynicism, but I’ve been through this before.

I grew up in a church where I was scared to death of Jesus coming back at any moment. Luckily, members of my church were going to be whisked away on the wings of angels to a place of safety while the rest of the world wished that they had heeded the voice of Herbert Armstrong, my cult leader.

I was always afraid that I wasn’t going to be among the faithful. And at six years old, this can be a pretty paralyzing fear.

The people involved in my church weren’t monsters. They weren’t unkind. They weren’t unintelligent. They had just been duped by a false prophet who used fear and mind control techniques to recruit and sustain a large money-making operation. In the name of God, Herbert took well-intentioned seekers of Christ and turned them into devoted followers. Followers of Herbert.

 This was before the Internet, but Herbert’s game before religion had been advertising. He created a magazine called The Plain Truth, he had a television show, and he was a prolific author (although a great deal of his work was allegedly plagiarized). And because this was before the Internet, there was very little ability to fact check any of Herbert’s ideas or background. 

And he was convincing as hell. In its heyday, Herbert’s Worldwide Church of God centered in Pasadena, California had congregations all over the world. New York. Sydney. Brussels. Bangkok. Amman. Chicago. Philadelphia. London. Paris. He was a go-getter.

Herbert was also an end-times prophet. Growing up under the threat of nuclear war, Herbert offered people a way to escape the coming apocalypse. His way. God’s way.

One of my earliest memories is of sitting in a rented hall listening to Herbert Armstrong. I thought he was God. His voice would be booming through speakers from a cassette tape, but I would be looking at the podium with an empty microphone and just know that God was speaking to me. Everyone around me gave the podium their undivided attention, and so I did likewise. I figured if the adults were taking notes and flipping through their bibles when this man spoke, he must be God.

Jesus didn’t come back the way Herbert had thought. And it was the fault of the congregation. It’s because we weren’t ready. The church had to get back on the right track. We were off course. Sinners in the hands of an angry Herbert, who could direct his ministers to throw us out of God’s church.

We were terrified of this. All of us. Terrified. It was the fear that Herbert created in us to hook us, and it was the fear that kept us coming back for more. If we left, we’d be obliterated. There would be no hope.

Read the rest of her story here:  What Happens On May 22?

Andie recently released a movie about life in a cult, Paradise Recovered 

Philadelphia Church of God Summer Camp Horrors

Summer camps should be a time of fun and learning for kids.  It's the first chance for many to be away from home and be alone with their peers.  It can create life time friendships.

However, there are Church of God summer camps where theological indoctrination is trumpeted out as truth.  The worst of these cult camps is Philadelphia Church of God's summer camps.  Imagine having your kinds indoctrinated at summer camp chanting all summer:
"Next year at the Rock, Next year at the Rock, Next year at the Rock." (referring to Petra)  That kind of deviate behavior is just as sick as Harold Camping's lies.


I am reposting the following blog comments from Michael Maynard concerning how his kids were treated at a Philadelphia Church of God Summer Camp.  This is the kind of BS that Gerald Flurry and his cult are indoctrinating kids with and how they are being treated.

Some people never check out the comments sections of posts, and this deserves wider viewing.

Michael D. Maynard said...

I had first hand experience with the utter incompetence at the PCG summer camp in Guthrie, OK in 1996 when my son and daughter attended. When we arrived there a day or two before the camp ended we visited with the campers and staff and spoke to Gerald Flurry at length. We were appalled at what we found. My daughter had second degree sun burns covering on her face her lips were seared and infected from being forced to play sports activities for many hours in the scorching sun without being offered any sun screen. My daughters knees had been damaged from these same marathon sports activities. They were treated like they were seasoned atheletes and run into the dirt. My daughter had pain from her injuries form many years after that. She related how they were all forced to go mountain biking in very steep hill country around dangerous boulders and cliffs. At one point they were forced to ride down an extremely steep hill which terrified my daughter who grew up in Florida and never rode on any hills. One of the girls lost control of her bike during this part of the ride and body slammed a huge bolder at a high rate of speed. It was a wonder she was not killed. My daughter said she had a bruise that covered nearly her entire side.

My son's ankles were both so badly sprained that he could barley walk from this marathon of sports. They still wanted him to play in the final softball tournament without any medical attention. We forbade it and made him sit it out. If we had not arrived when we did no telling how bad his injuries could have been. When we first arrived at the beginning of the camp to drop our children off my wife and I were shocked and my daughter very embarrassed at the first sight we observed. Dennis Leap, the camp coordinator, came riding up on his mountain bike next to where we were unloading or children's gear. He was wearing spandex riding shorts that are skin tight. He was carrying a little extra weight so to start with the sight was bad enough, but what was worse was his "package" and you know what I mean, looked like he was very happy to see someone. To be kind it was repugnant, to be honest it was just LEWD. My wife and daughter spun around away from him while he was greeting them and froze wide eyed staring at me. After he left my wife and I had a private discussion out of our children's ear shot and actually had reservations. I had a strong feeling, which I wished I had heeded, not to leave them there for the camp. But we talked ourselves into leaving them because we knew how much both of them were looking forward to this and many of their friends were there. We found out also that the monitor that was in my sons dorm was an immature boy who had no control over his dorm. There were vicious hazings and my son fell off a porch roof and could have been injured though he just had minor scrapes. It took many months before my son could walk without pain in his ankles. My daughter still has slight scars on her face from the severe sunburn she suffered. But that was not the end of it. When we were loading my son and daughters gear into our motor coach for the return trip to Florida all of the campers were crying, hugging, saying their good byes, and all saying something like a slogan they learned from camp. I couldn't quite make it out so I slid a window open to hear better. I usually don't write this kind of vocabulary, so forgive me if you are offend, I apolgize in advance...BUT I was PISSED when I realized what the slogan was...PISSED! "Next year at the Rock, Next year at the Rock, Next year at the Rock." was what they were chanting as they said their good byes. Those worthless BASTARDS had used the two week camp to indoctrinate and brainwash our children into Gerald Flurry's insane prophecies about FLEEING TO PETRA. And told them there would not be a camp next year because they would all be together in PETRA. That is when I fully realized what a 'BOWL OF SPIDERS" the PCG was. When we got back to Florida I started my exit strategy and did not send another dime to them, and I was a rather large contributor. I know they saw that right away and that was a large part of why I was disfellowshiped so rapidly by the regional pastor that I wrote about earlier. My mother-in-law and brother-in-law are still in that group, just as blind as they can be. At least I only wasted two years there. Michael

Michael's TTDOCF Blog

Spiritual Deviate Camping Has Disappeared

The London Daily News and IBTimes, San Francisco are reporting that Camping has deserted his followers.  Camping is in hiding after his dramatic, worldwide., public rapture failed to occur. Devastated followers are now taking the brunt of Campings' lies.

Disillusioned: Robert Fitzpatrick, who spent his $140,000 life savings on ads to spread the word of the Rapture, believed that it would happen at 6pm on May 21, but unfortunately for him it didn't

...as 6pm came and went around the world and nothing happened, they were forced to confront reality.'I don't understand why nothing has happened,' baffled believer Robert Fitzpatrick said as he gazed at his watch in New York's Times Square just after 6 pm.

 

'I did what I had to do. I did what the Bible said.'
The 60-year-old retired transport worker bought $140,000 worth of advertising to help spread Camping's message of doom.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1389727/Rapture-Baffled-believers-face-jeers.html#ixzz1N7Ca8XMk

IBTimes News Story

The Human Face of Harold Camping's Cult

The look like a normal family.  A mother and father with beautiful looking children.  The also appear to have some intelligence and education.  Reading a few blurbs about them in the Daily Mail (London) you see a mother and father who believe so deeply in Camping's nonsense that they have the ability to tell their children that they are going to be left behind to suffer through the apocalypse while they (mommy and daddy) are whisked off to heaven for eternal bliss.

One U.S. family in particular will be stunned that the Rapture failed to happen.

Two years ago Robert Carson and Abby Haddad gave up their jobs to preach for the Family Radio church at the centre of the May 21 Judgment Day campaign.

They even told their three children - Joseph, Faith and Grace - that they were going to die.

Speaking to the New York Times, 16-year-old Grace Haddad said: 'My mom has told me directly that I’m not going to get into heaven. At first it was really upsetting, but it’s what she honestly believes.'

Another dedicated follower is Michael Garcia.

After spending months travelling the country to put up Judgment Day billboards and hand out Bible tracts, he planned to spend Friday evening with his family at home in Alameda, near the Christian media empire's Oakland headquarters.

'We know the end will begin in New Zealand and will follow the sun and roll on from there,' said Garcia, a 39-year-old father of six. 'That's why God raised up all the technology and the satellites so everyone can see it happen at the same time.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1389481/Rapture-The-world-DIDNT-end-6pm.html#ixzz1N5Y9uQm2

Their beliefs are exactly like the silliness that permeates Armstrongism to this day.  Armstrongism still looks at the idea of fleeing to Petra for a final training to be god's and goddesses.  Parents of unbaptized children will be made god's while their kids will be left in Petra to continue to live as mortal human beings.  Unless of course, they have not been killed by the invading armies that hate the true church so much that they nuke the place.  Oh wait, the stupid pagan's can't even do that!  Petra will be covered by a cloud that makes it invisible to airplanes.  That cloud will scramble the radar of planes so no one will ever be able to find Petra.  Sound stupid?  You bet!  That was actual teachings of Armstrongite ministers!

Even the callousness of the parents telling their kids they will not make it is exactly in line with Armstrongism.  We proclaimed the same thing.  Your child's only chance was to have had a prayer said of him/her at the Blessing of the Children service.  If that happened then they at least had a chance!  Otherwise they were doomed.  And, god forbid if you child did not get baptized by 18.  They were immediately destined to the lake of fire.

One WCG minister who left during all the changes wrote a book about his journey out of Armstrongism and into Lutheranism, Misery Synod.  He also made the same claims about his kids.  Because they had not converted to Lutheranism, Misery Synod, they were not going to make it into heaven. Eternally damned, lost, beyond redemption.

What a sad, impotent little god that would cause parents to make such comments to their kids!

Popular Blog Postings

News about UCG still fascinates people.  Below are some of the popular postings so far this month on this blog.  Poor little Joel Meeker still battles to be seen as significant. :-)  We are averaging 425 hits a day. With 1,000 hits per day during the UCG debacle.

UCG Crisis Continues To Boil: Income Down, Less M... Oct 19, 2010, 6 comments         2,344 Pageviews

UCG Has OFFICALLY Split! New Organization Formed Dec 24, 2010, 1 comment           712 Pageviews

Official Wild World Church of God Pastor/Church R... Jan 1, 2011, 5 comments            529 Pageviews

"Why do you bother with the past? Forget about it... Jan 30, 2011, 2 comments          477 Pageviews

Joel Meeker: YOU'RE FIRED!!!!!!!! Dec 27, 2010                             429 Pageviews

Heathen UCG Youth Raise Money With Bake Sale Feb 23, 2011, 7 comments        400 Pageviews

Appalachian Mountains and Sacred Harp/Shape Note S... Apr 28, 2011, 6 comments         289 Pageviews

Secret Video of South African Elder Confronting Me... Jan 5, 2011, 3 comments            241 Pageviews

David Antion on Apartian's Death and Ron Dart's Co... Dec 22, 2010, 2 comments         227 Pageviews

Ex-COG Member Slits Throats of Daughters and Self,... Mar 21, 2011, 14 comments       226 Pageviews

First Live Shot of Apocalypse Happening in New Zealand

First live photo from New Zealand of the apocalypse 
as it is happening! 

Earthquakes, fire and destruction!  

This same death and destruction 
will soon be upon us Saturday at 6:00 p.m. 
(according to your time zone)

Harold Camping was right! 
The prophet was without honor in his own country!

(Gavin, it was nice knowing you! Was it hot?)

Click on picture to expand to it's full size to witness the death and destruction!

Got Clean Underwear On For The Rapture (or Petra?)

Here is a great cartoon from The Naked Pastor Blog

The great hing about all this silliness going down right now with Harold Camping is that in decades past, few people got roped in by these morons. Their message was not widely spread.  Now with the internet the entire world can sit by and watch these idiots made out to be the liars they are.  The same thing is going to happen to Flurry, Meredith, Cox, Weinland and Pack.  The entire world will get to watch as these men are made out to be fools.  Armstrongism will soon be the laughing stock too.  Oh wait, it already is!!!!!!

Time is Short--The Eternal Carrot

Time is Short--The Eternal Carrot

All fundamentalist and literalist Christians have grown up with the following scriptures burned into their minds...

I Thessalonians 4:15-17 "...For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout...Then WE which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air..."

I Corinthians 15:51,52 "...WE shall not all sleep, but WE shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump...and WE shall be changed."

Romans 13:11-12 "And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for NOW is OUR salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand..."

James 5:8 "Be YE also patient; establish YOUR hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh."

I John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby WE know that it is the last time."

I Peter 4:7 "But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."

Revelation 22:20 "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly..."

Millions in Fundamentalist and Evangelical Churches have grown up with the idea that the return of Jesus, a return which will fix everything that is wrong with everything and reward the true saints, is always imminent. We read the above scriptures as if they were written for us, as it is we who are finally the ones "upon whom the end of the age has come." Unlike everyone before us, we really really are the ones who will see it and be changed, avoiding the reality of physical death.

There never has been, is not now and never will be a shortage of preachers and pastors who just know we are living in the final, absolutely last days. The signs are everywhere and every world event is assigned biblical import and meaning.

In Fundamentalist movements, the tradition goes on and becomes more pronounced as , earthquakes, floods, fire, volcanoes and "unusual" events, or wars and rumors of wars, especially in the middle east rear their ugly heads. If someone blew up the Dome of the Rock, well... there... see, now tell us that Jesus is not a few minutes away from returning.

The fact that most wars are waged by either the Christians, Israelis or the Islamic nations, among and between themselves, which are the religions whose teachings are supposed to save us and make our lives better, doesn't seem to strike us as odd. In fact, at some deep level deeply religious fundamentalists, seem to believe that millions must die violently, so that "all these things can come to pass" and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit can be visited upon the Christian survivors... or Islamic or Israeli depending on who wins. Well of course, the Christians win. Each knows who that it will be themselves that overcomes the other. It's in the book, all of them.

The most popular New Testament "proof texts" for this thinking among Christian Fundamentalists and Evangelicals, comes from Mark 13 and the parallel passages found in Matthew 24 and Luke 21. These written in answer to the disciples question... "WHEN shall these things be, and what shall be the sign of your coming?"
It's all about WHEN. The "when" is unknowable even if one believes with all their heart it has to be soon. The faithful forget that speculation on the future is always just that. It is not fact. It is not how it will be and all speculation over the past 2000 years as to "when", to date has been 100% wrong.

Far too many Pastor types base their entire ministry on the imminent return of Jesus. One would be hard pressed to find the actual word "Jesus" in any other context in their sermons, articles and pronouncements.

It's all about the second coming and it's all about SOON for the most rabid and judgmental COG splinters. Those who question the wisdom of this mistaken approach to life become the scoffers who nip at the heels of the saints.
"...there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation,"
But running that risk, and with all due respect to the sincere seeker of Biblical truth, I predict that Jesus will not be returning any time soon.

Why not? Because in the very predictions of Jesus lie the fact that he was himself wrong about them. Jesus put a time limit in the context of his own predictions that has long since passed no matter how apologists endeavor to resurrect his prophecies for a yet future time.

"Verily I say unto you", This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" (Matthew 24:34).
We simply have to admit, at face value, Jesus was wrong and not only DID that generation pass away, but so have countless others that followed. Jesus has not been misunderstood in this statement. He was wrong. Sincere not doubt and it simply will not go into the bible-reader mind that this might be the simple truth of the matter. There has to be another explanation that makes Jesus right in this perspective not 2000 years past.


"This generation" was not the one Jesus was talking TO, but rather the generation that "these things" would begin to happen IN. Whew! It's in the far future and means a future society when all these signs accelerate and come to a crashing finale ending with the Second Coming.

We now have wiggle room to account for the fact that Jesus has not returned yet. Jesus wasn't mistaken about his own times, he was referring to another time.

Gleason Archer, who offers this solutions to the "Jesus didn't mean it would be in his time," notes accurately what we all know 2000 years later.

"Obviously these apocalyptic scenes and earth-shaking events did not take place within the generation of those who heard Christ's Olivet discourse. Therefore Jesus could not have been referring to his immediate audience when He made this prediction..." (Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties, pg 338).

Archer has to say this as he cannot possibly entertain the idea that Jesus was himself wrong in his perceptions of the times in which he lived and his role in those times. Later in the Gospels, authors would lower the expectations of the early Church, who thought Jesus meant them by reminding them late in the game when it was obvious Jesus wasn't coming any time soon that "a day with the Lord is as a thousand years. Sorry, we forgot to tell you that in the beginning." As long as one is incapable of thinking Jesus was himself wrong the Kingdom of God being just around the corner if he did his part, the doctrine of disappointments would have to be addressed as time went on.

And so we simply need to ask a very simple question. To whom was Jesus speaking? From the opening NT texts, it is obvious that the disciples, apostles and members of the church thought it meant THEM and did not get any hint of Jesus meaning anything other than THEM in THEIR time, which was short. The idea that Jesus would "build my Church" came decades after Jesus death when most were dead or dying of old age and yet the end did not come. Jesus never envisioned a Church that would follow decades and millennia after his death. Jesus life would always be lived and lost in the context of Judaism and the Synagogue.

But back to the original question. To whom was Jesus speaking when he said the words and to whom did he mean for it to apply? The answer is within the context, plain and simple.

"Take heed that no man deceive YOU." (Matt 24:4)
"...YOU shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars..." (Matt 24:6)
"Then shall they deliver YOU up to be afflicted..." (Matt 24:9)
"When YOU therefore shall see the the abomination of desolation..." (Matt 24:15)
"But pray YOU that your flight be not in the winter..." (Matt 24:20)
"Behold, I have told YOU before." (Matt 24:25)

The context in which Jesus spoke was his own. The "you" that he was addressing was the group he was addressing then and the group to which all these things would happen for, and soon. Jesus was telling those disciples that these things would happen in their time. Jesus made a mistake in his perceptions.
In our time, Christians read the same words and see the "ye" and "you" as "me" and "us" just as the original disciples would have. The only difference is that the disciples actually were disappointed and this generation has yet to realize their own disappointment to come.

The proof that Jesus himself meant the people he was talking to is found in the fact that the "this generation" comment is actually the tale end of a much larger, often overlooked quote taken in it's entirety.

"So likewise YE when YE shall SEE ALL these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto YOU, THIS generation shall not pass, till ALL these things be fulfilled." (Matt 24:33-24 emphasis mine)

There is no reason to twist the words of Jesus to mean more than they were ever intended to mean. A scripture can never mean what it never meant. The early disciples and infant Church, knew it meant them and we see the gradual deterioration of their personal confidence in the immediacy of the Second Coming promise throughout the NT.

I Thessalonians 4:15-17 "...For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout...Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air..." Meaning...some would die, but not us who tell you this. Jesus still means us.

I Corinthians 15:51,52 "...We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump..." Meaning...you will die, but we won't but it all works out...Jesus still meant us.

Romans 13:11-12 "And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand..." Meaning...we had some doubts, but now we know it's almost here. Jesus still meant us.

James 5:8 "Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." Meaning...impatience was growing, hang in there. Jesus still meant us.

I John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." Meaning...Jesus still meant us.

I Peter 4:7 "But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."

Revelation 22:20 "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly...."Meaning...ok, it's been about 60 years, but Jesus still means us.

Obviously, everyone of these quoted hopes and statements were wrong. Jesus did not return for them and to date has not returned for anyone. Paul and the early church who wrote in his name was just as wrong as the many COG prophetic types are wrong in this time. And it is based on the fact that Jesus himself was wrong which I know most Christians can never come to admit. For Paul it becomes....

" I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." Meaning...Ok, I give up, Jesus didn't mean us, or at least not me. I was wrong. 2 Timothy 4:8-9

...and at best, this will also become the reality for those alive today seeing the imminent return of Jesus in every newspaper and on every turn of the dial in this dangerous and contentious world of ours.

I'm not scoffing. Being accused of scoffing was a label for those in the early Church. The disciples expected Jesus return within days of his death and when they met him in Galilee, even doubted that. Its what you say to those that are becoming disillusioned but the others know that the return is still in their lifetime for sure. Scoffers were undermining the confidence of the early followers and disciples of Jesus. An observation is not scoffing.

Observations are based on the passage of millennia. It's a 2000 year old observation. To motivate with fear, false prophetic fulfillment's of non- prophecies, and imagined prophetic accuracy on topics anyone could speculate somewhat accurately about, is simply foolishness and makes the Church, in any form look stupid and ignorant. Jesus said his generation would not pass until the Son of Man be come. He was wrong.

So bent on not allowing the member to even remotely entertain the idea that Jesus was wrong, Paul was wrong and the Church is wrong , it was prudent to shift the blame for doubt to the member and thinker and away from the clergy, and thus we have...

2 Peter 3:3 "Knowing this first, (meaning---we forgot to add this apologetic) that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of....."

Obviously, the Church took Jesus words literally for them and not for some future generation. But still Jesus doesn't return to them. This shifts the problem to the scoffers, doubters and those that misunderstood Jesus and not the Church who needs to keep the hope of imminent return going like a carrot before the horse. The Church never entertained until they had to, the idea that Jesus didn't mean what he said about soon. It also implies that this doubt is deliberate and calculated. It can never just be doubt based on evidence and time just going on without any evidence of Jesus return. Even with the temple gone and the Romans more in power than ever, He didn't return. It must have felt for them then as one might say today. "If Jesus didn't return for the Holocaust, what will it take."

The "scoffers will come" scripture was added when it was obvious to the Church that people could and were scoffing. And what some consider scoffing is merely noting that the thing spoken is not so. It's not evil, it's just stating the obvious and putting, in this case, the church on the spot to explain its continued use of imminent return going long. It also lends credibility to Jesus mournful cry at the end of his life..."my God, my God...why have you forsaken me." I expect Jesus really meant that. It was a real shock not to have had things work out as one had supposed. Jesus had done his part. He had pushed the Romans right up to the edge and himself, right up to execution...and still, God did not intervene, sweep the Romans from the earth and set up the Kingdom. Only after Jesus actually died did the followers of Jesus have to rethink it all.

I know... and expect it to be said, "you'll think differently when Jesus returns, or you find yourself in hell with lots of time to rethink your position." I speak in the hope that the average Christian church member won't be motivated and won't tolerate pastors who use the fear of living on this planet to promote their own misguided agendas and speculations. One does not have to see the world only through the eyes of those that speculate on how things are or will be because frankly they don't and can't know.


Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

"There is Nothing Worthwhile Out There In Space Worth Exploring"

An Armstrongite on Yahoo is not happy with the U.S. spending money on exploring space.  "There is nothing out there worthwhile"  Besides, "once we are spirit beings we will have plenty of time to explore space."  More magical thinking!  Once they become 'god' imagine what a hellish world these people would be in charge of! 

 I am sorry to say that I am in complete disagreement with you on this!! This business in space is the most expensive bunch of toys that this country could have ever come up with!! Billions of dollars in total waste. There is absolutely nothing of any value in being out there at this time in our human state! It all started with our trying to prove to Russia that we were better than them. All of those billions could have been used for good use instead of being a total waste,---and instrumental in  helping to destroy our economy!! We will have plenty of time to explore space when we become spirit beings!

Ambassador Reports In New Format

You can now read the Ambassador Reports in an easy reading format through FlippingBooks.  It also works great on your cell phone.  Ambassador Reports was the original source for exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism.  That tradition carries on today with countless blogs, web sites, and books.  The Internet has effectively opened Armstrongism wide open for all the world to see. The world is getting to witness the disintegration of the Churches of God.

Ambassador Reports