Verdict: "GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE PROPHET AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY."

Prophet Thiel has made up a list of "charges" against Ron Weinland that "prove" he is a false prophet:

Some of these "charges" can be taken and inserted with Rod Meredith's name and thus would equally apply to him!  Shall we make our own list of failed false prophecies of Rod Meredith?

Charge 1: He falsely claimed that he was given power on April 17, 2008 as that was the start of the Great Tribulation, according to him, and that the real others could not see this is that the Great Tribulation at that time was supposed spiritual.  His own testimony convicted him as he later claimed that the Great Tribulation began on December 14, 2008.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 2: He claimed that his wife Laura was the second of God’s two witnesses effective on April 17, 2008, the supposed start of the 3 1/2 years of the two witnesses gaining power (cf. Revelation 11).  Neither Ronald Weinland nor his wife Laura have displayed any of the miraculous powers of God’s two witnesses.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 3: He wrote in his 2008 God’s Final Witness book that various leaders in the Living Church of God, United Church of God, and Philadelphia Church of God would die towards the beginning of his Great Tribulation.  None have, and since according to his own statements, the Great Tribulation is mostly over.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE PROPHET AND CLAIMING TO BE ONE OF THE TWO WITNESSES AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 4: He falsely claimed that a little after April 2008, the US dollar would be worthless.  The US dollar is still valuable.  And apparently according to the IRS, so valuable to Ronald Weinland that he allegedly “did willfully attempt to evade and defeat the payment of a large part of the income tax due and owing by him to the United States of America for the calendar year 2008″ on “or about October 15, 2009″ according to federal documents.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE PROPHET AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 5: Ronald Weinland claimed that if the USA was not nuked by June 2008, he would resign, admit he was false, and never preach again.  The USA was not nuked, he did not resign, he continues to preach, and has not publicly admitted that he was false.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 6: He falsely claimed that the USA would not get a new president to take office in January 2009.  Yet, on January 20, 2009, Barack Obama became USA’s 44th president.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE PROPHET AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 7: He claims to be part of the Church of God, yet instead has repeatedly denied the deity of Jesus.  The Bible teaches that Jesus is God.  Verdict: GUILTY OF HERESY AND APOSTASY.

Charge 8: On August 8, 2009 he falsely declared that 2008 was God’s final witness.  That is false.  By definition the two witnesses are supposed to give a witness.  His own words again convict him.  Furthermore, he and his wife Laura have not been effective witnesses.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 9:  On December 19, 2009 he falsely declared himself to be the final Elijah.  Yet that 1) contracts his own writing {Weinland R.  The Prophesied END-TIME. 2004, pp. 73, 75, 85, 89, 106, 108} and 2) that simply is not true.  Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

Charge 10: Ronald Weinland continues to preach and teach false information about the Great Tribulation and the return of Jesus Christ–which he now claims will be May 27, 2012.  This is not possible as certain biblically-required events have not occurred (see, for example, Matthew 24).   Verdict: GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS AND SPEAKING PRESUMPTUOUSLY.

"The Culling of the Flock"

Check out a well researched article by Jason about the demise of Armstrongism on A Cult In Decline – Armstrongism In The 21st Century

The Culling of the Flock 

Recruiting however, was only one side of the coin. Once the recruit was in place, great effort was made to keep them attending and to keep them loyal. The WCG was undeniably a very successful church in its day. If the numerous co-worker letters are to be believed, the WCG grew at a steady rate of 30% a year. It would be fantastic if these claims were verifiable, (especially turnover figures) sadly however, they are not.

What we do know is that during the entire course of Herbert Armstrong’s reign, there was never a shortage of members who became unhappy and left the cult. Whether it was because they took issue with doctrines like D&R and makeup, or because they became disillusioned with HWA’s heavy-handed leadership and his constant requests for money, people were always leaving. The never-ending battle waged by those in power was one of damage-control: a constant search for the disaffected, a race to find these “rotten apples” and stop the spread of their discontent before it could affect others.

In the end, the tactics of selective recruiting & culling the herd left the deck stacked highly in Armstrong’s favor. As the years progressed, the group grew to become something other than just a religion. Eventually, it became – at least to the vast majority – a Cult of Personality.

More Crazy Things COGgers Say

Poor COG-Writer Dr. Bob just doesn't get! Those guys who never
where nothing in WCG shouldn't try to correct a Senior Evanglist who would never hurt a flea. Talking about who needs to repent and
needs prayers???

Christ taught the Apostles who in turn taught the
church what Christ taught them. HWA was taught by
Jesus Christ and we all were taught by HWA. If we
don't follow what the teacher taught us then why did we need him in the first place? Government is what God wants to see all His people follow and obey.

We had better heed to the one whom God sent and used to teach us what we should be following not our own ideas or the ideas of other men who claim they know better than HWA.

 Regarding The Passion of the Christ movie.  Jesus is obviously a graven image in the movie.....go figure that one out!

Maybe I am the dumbest person on this forum. But, the second commandment says not to make images.

So, when you say "Should we not then allow that the Gibson movie  naturally suffers from similar flaws"... The flaw is that its breaking one of the Ten Commandments. End of Story.  There is no *allowance* for that.

We are forbidden to make images of God or of anything angelic or heavenly that even *could* be worshipped.. or that was worshipped.  This includes many earthly objects that were worshipped in times past.   This movie is exactly an image of Christ.. a false image set up.

Maybe this is what God plans to use the YELLOWSTONE
super volcano for -- TO RAIN FIRE AND BRIMSTONE DOWN
ON SICK, PERVERTED NATIONS WHO WOULD DARE ATTACK GOD'S SERVANTS FOR SPREADING HIS TRUTH!

Maybe THIS will be the kind of language these perverts will  understand, to die in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AS SODOM AND GOMORRAH!

And with the lake bed of Yellowstone Lake rising at least 3 ft.+ per year, and the animals dying all over the park from SULPHUR POISOINING, I dont' think our gay hugging Canadian friends will have long to wait!

Real Christians (COG, of course) Will NOT Be Watching Football on Thanksgiving Day

Prophet Thiel is on his annual anti-football rant because it is close to Thanksgiving and football occupies the TV's in most homes that day. 

Is playing football really about "loving your neighbor" as the Prophet claims?

Dirty, nasty, violent, ungodly football! You are damned to the Lake of Fire!

Should Christians support violent sports like American football?

The late Herbert W. Armstrong wrote:

Hostility toward the other is sin…Boxing at Ambassador College is definitely banned. God did not create the human brain and head to be pummeled and knocked senseless by an antagonist.
Wherever a game in sports involves antagonists–in hostile attitude to harm the other and/or to “get” from the other–to get the best of the other then a harmful, satanic and evil attitude enters in, and the sport is evil, not good…
Football (American football) is a violent body-contact sport. It is often played with an attitude of hostility and is dangerous and is fraught with physical injury. (Plain Truth, July-August 1984)

While I have even heard some thank God for football, it is not a sport that I believe that the God of love would condone.

“Love does no harm to a neighbor” (Romans 13:9), yet what do sports like American football and boxing do?

Gnats and Camels

This is courtesy of Van Robinson, a reader of this blog:

GNATS and CAMELS

*Man-made religions all strain at gnats, with their do's and don'ts.
*The Internet is a veritable library of websites by innumerable sources, proclaiming what they believe as "truth."
*Human religious leaders will often lead the gullible and the naive down a path of gnats.

*Jesus taught that the pharisees strained at gnats while swallowing camels and this is typical of the religious minded.
*The religious minded will focus on days,  physical buildings, physical temples, dress codes, head gear, tithing, titles, credentials, religious "education", Ink on paper called "the Bible" as if God is the Bible,
"religious languages", scholars, "pastors", "prophets and prophetesses", "end times", television preachers and quoting "the pastor said", or some "prophet or prophetess" said, or upon following someone that is a
charismatic leader and speaker, or someone that is thought to be of influence.

*Jesus taught that swatting at gnats as so many do, is a narrow minded focus, while this type of tunnel vision blinds the mind to the far more important issues of LOVE, COMPASSION MERCY, EMPATHY and HUMILITY.
*Many church groups and countless church goers are GNAT SWATTERS.
*Gnat chasers think that going to church, observing days, tithing, financing pastors so they can go fishing, hunting and play golf, while poor people struggle to make a living and other gnat ideas, is what makes a "Christian."

*It is human to swallow camels and strain at gnats. 
*There is no greater and more important life principle than "love your neighbor as you love yourself" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "blessed are the peacemakers", based upon Jesus Christ.
*Gnat chasers are more concerned with Saturday church, Sunday church, meetings, days and religious issues than "LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE BEFORE MEN, THAT THEY MAY SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS and GLORIFY
YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN."

*Camel swallow(ers) bypass HUMILITY and draw attention to their own self-importance, as all religious leaders do.
*Cult beliefs always involve swatting gnats, because their ideas of what "truth and righteousness" are, are simply the cult leaders camel swallowing nonsense.

*What is more important---to love others, or to go to church?
*What is more important---tithe to the local "pastor" or feed your children and family?
*What is more important---listen to preachers preach, or be led by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit?
*What is more important---read the bible everyday for life, or produce the fruit of love, compassion, mercy, empathy and humility?

*Gnat chasers make a religion of bible study, going to church and following human religious leaders (who themselves are deceived, they just don't know it).
*Gnat chasers deny that they are gnat chasers.
*Gnat chasers think that gnats are so important that they swallow camels.

Only The Best For The Leaders

I had to laugh when I read the following news story this morning that someone sent me.  It immediately reminded me of the hypocrisy of Armstrongite church leaders that claim to be "Just stewards" of the tithes of Church members as they live lives of luxury. 

Mr./Evangelist XYZ is God's TRUE Apostle/leader/Pastor General who needs to interact with world leaders at their own level.  Therefore we MUST have the best. Best Westerns and Marriott's are NOT for us!  We must have our luxury suites, drive the best cars, wear the best tailored suits, etc.

While the people suffer, the leaders revel.

As we can see from the following article, hypocrisy knows no boundaries:

Occupy Wall Street Leader Reportedly Pitches Golden Tent at 5-Star Hotel

Hell no, we won’t go — unless we get goose down pillows.

A key Occupy Wall Street leader and another protester who leads a double life as a businessman ditched fetid tents and church basements for rooms at a luxurious hotel that promises guests can “unleash [their] inner Gordon Gekko,” The Post has learned.

The $700-per-night W Hotel Downtown last week hosted both Peter Dutro, one of a select few OWS members on the powerful finance committee, and Brad Spitzer, a California-based analyst who not only secretly took part in protests during a week-long business trip but offered shelter to protesters in his swanky platinum-card room.

“Tents are not for me,” he confessed, when confronted in the sleek black lobby of the Washington Street hotel where sources described him as a “repeat” guest.

Spitzer, 24, an associate at financial-services giant Deloitte, which netted $29 billion in revenue last year, admitted he joined the protest at Zuccotti Park several times.

Read the entire story here:  Occupy Wall Street Leader Reportedly Pitches Golden Tent at 5-Star Hotel

UCG Calls For "God to Lovingly Intervene" in Zambia Cattle Fiasco

With mounting negative publicity shining a bad light on UCG's "christian charity" it has hit back through Kubik with a letter regarding the Zambia Cattle fiasco.

November 18, 2011

In recent weeks, a number of people have weighed in concerning what they claimed happened or is happening regarding members of the United Church of God in Zambia. This includes one person who directly wrote to a family member of a former UCG COE member, copied to leadership of the Church of God, a Worldwide Association (COGWA), asking that an “open letter” be published on anti-United Church of God websites “and anywhere else it can find a home.”  

As is evident by the now-published material, that request has been carried out, apparently with no one who received that request asking that  it  remain private for determination by the appropriate authorities.   This “open letter” includes a distorted  summary of events, as well as what can only be described as a completely fabricated story about an “apology” that simply never took place. 

What is particularly sad and tragic is that, what started out as a legitimate prayer request for God to intervene and straighten matters out regarding the loss of cattle harming the livelihood of some UCG members, has now become a public campaign to bias the facts.  While we were not interested in a war of words, this public misinformation requires a reply, lest silence be taken for agreement of the false information being broadly circulated.

What we would desire, and what we believe is the position of the United Church of God, would be that a spirit of civility be restored among those who were once dear friends working together, that property be restored in a spirit of honesty to whom they were intended and that all of this be done according to the will of God.

With this, we humbly renew the prayer request, asking that God positively and lovingly intervene and set these matters aright. Since this simple prayer request, which did not include any other factors in Zambia, has been inaccurately portrayed and escalated publicly by others, it is necessary that we provide the following summary of events so members can focus their prayers.


In early January 2011, our now former pastor along with some other members of the United Church of God in Zambia announced that they were no longer going to be affiliated with United Church of God, an International Association and, instead, became affiliated with Church of God, a Worldwide Association (COGWA).   However, these people decided to claim a continuing control of the name United Church of God in Zambia (and with that control and ownership of its physical assets).   Members in United Church of God in Zambia who desired to remain affiliated with United Church of God, an International Association also claimed that they have the right to the name and property of United Church of God in Zambia and dispute the right of this now COGWA affiliated group to that name or assets. 

Last February, United’s former pastor in Zambia, who is now a pastor for COGWA in that country, wrote that they would not relinquish control of the UCG-Zambia name or its assets unless “proof” was produced that they were required to do so by simply claiming that they have the legal right to use the registered name of the United Church of God and declaring in writing that they “had never left this church,” they claim ownership.   The fact that most members of United Church of God in Zambia continue to maintain that they remain, as before, affiliated with United Church of God, an International Association and desire continued use of the United name and its property does not matter to them. 

There is no question that the property they are keeping was overwhelmingly the result of gifts of people still affiliated with United Church of God, IA.   Yet they still refuse to walk away and build their own separate COGWA entity in Zambia.  And to add insult to injury, when announcing their break with us last January, they stated that they “sincerely appreciate the financial support that the United Church of God, an International Association has provided in the past years.”

As a consequence, litigation was initiated about last summer by two United Church of God elders in Zambia to seek a ruling on those issues, which case is slowing proceeding in the Zambian courts.  A judge has indicated that the issues involved are questions that appear to require adjudication in a trial to essentially determine which of the two groups is the “true” (from a legal standpoint) “United Church of God” in Zambia entitled to use of that name and ownership of its assets. 

Similarly, at the same time last January, members of the breakaway COGWA group in Zambia who happened to be directors of the LifeNets (International) local Chapter in Zambia also announced the severance of their affiliation with its International sponsor, but retained the local Chapter name and its assets.  They have rejected LifeNets (International) call on them to relinquish that name and assets to those seeking to maintain an affiliation with LifeNets (International).

Of course  these former members are also well aware that Beverly Kubik, wife of Mr. Kubik, personally assisted in raising  much of the funding that made possible the purchase of the property and erection of buildings and their furnishings for United Church of God activities in Zambia as well as projects (such as the Heifer gifting program) and other assets for LifeNets outreach in Zambia. Many photographs of the Kubiks’ trips to Zambia to help brethren have appeared in several publications. They demonstrate the direct engagement of the Kubiks in helping Zambia members.

Attempts were made to peacefully resolve the cattle taking issue privately but to no avail. Members who had their cattle taken were understandably upset and traumatized by these actions. Thus a worldwide prayer request was issued to ask for God’s direct intervention.

We call on COGWA and its affiliate in Zambia to honor its ethical promise of last January that  “We will respect all property of our former affiliation (tangible, intangible and intellectual) and will promptly return all such items to the local congregational leaders of United Church of God (Hebrews 13:5). This can be done by returning:

1)      The United Church of God property donated for  our Zambian UCGIA affiliated members – a Festival site and youth camp, etc. – and LifeNets gifted property are returned to these rightful owners (those who remain affiliated with UCGIA and LifeNets (International), including vehicles and the $42,000 in the Zambian account that was to be used to finish the buildings on the property. This would honor all donors, and particularly the two UCG members who contributed the vast majority of funds (over $100,000) required to purchase the property and build the facility. It would help restore peace, honor God and give use of the facility to the majority of Zambian brethren  who have chosen to remain affiliated with UCGIA and who, this year, were forced to pay for an alternate Feast site and youth camp elsewhere in Zambia.

2)     The remaining cattle gifted to individual members or to UCG Zambia, but not yet returned to those owners must be returned immediately, as planting season has already begun. It should be noted that no efforts by these COGWA affiliated people have been made to take cattle away from cattle owners who benefited from the LifeNets Heifer gifting, but who are affiliated with the COGWA fellowship—they only took cattle away from members retaining their affiliation with UCGIA.

On a visit to Zambia in about mid-January 2011, Victor Kubik tried to have discussions with the former Zambian senior UCG official who had resigned from UCG when these actions first occurred. Contrary to what has been publically posted, this former senior UCG official wrote that he would not talk to or meet with Victor Kubik.   This was prior to any involvement by any attorneys writing to that former UCG minister objecting to their continued use of the UCG-Zambia name and property in late January and February, 2011. 

It was on a later trip to Zambia in April 2011 following another request by Victor Kubik to meet that Mr. Kubik received the e-mail, now publicly posted, listing that former UCG elder’s pre-conditions  for any meeting.  A meeting could have taken place before any legal action was filed (that occurred sometime later)... 

We also reject the proposition that we are “taking a brother to court.”  The recovery of the exclusive use of the name United Church of God and of that Church’s asset is against people who are former members of United.  They are falsely claiming to be members of United Church of God while belonging to (and attending the Feast site of) another church (COGWA) and who refuse to relinquish Church owned property.  They are not “brothers.” They do not recognize any person in our Church as having the authority to act as arbiter in this matter.  
 
We do not appreciate the posting of selective correspondence that leads to false conclusion that we did not try to resolve this matter face to face   before being forced into a different course of action.

LifeNets and UCG have gone to great lengths, with personal visits, phone calls, e-mails and meetings to be circumspect and accurate in what has been written above. This response is in answer to posts, asked to be made public, that paint an inaccurate picture of events.  

We bear no animosity, but we do seek equity and God’s intervention in all the related matters in Zambia. It is the fiduciary duty of the leadership of  UCG in Zambia to  protect the integrity of their projects and the assets given to and for use of Zambian members who did not leave our fellowship.