The COG and its Peter Waldo Myths

by Ryan Caswell

Caswell Visuals

(Reposted with permission)

There have been many religious groups throughout history that claimed their organizations can be traced to the the 12 apostles. Using the analogy of an “unbroken chain” they claim their form of religion is the “purest” form of Christianity. In effect they seek to use this credibility to bolster their own religious beliefs insisting that Christ Himself taught their same particular doctrines.

The Seventh Day Adventists are a good example of this.

This doctrine of the “unbroken chain,” otherwise known as the teaching about “church eras” uses Revelation 2 and 3 to establish this. These 2 chapters describe seven churches found on a mail route in ancient Turkey. The doctrine teaches that instead of these groups being geographically separated, they are actually “eras in time” that make up the church, with specific warnings and praises given to each one.

In the Worldwide Church of God, Herbert Armstrong strongly believed and taught about these “Church eras.” This was a central point of his theology. Specifically Herbert claimed he was the modern apostle of the Philadelphian era, or the 6th era. In addition to his claim to apostleship, he also claimed to be a type of prophetic Elijah who restored true understanding that the church had lost through subsequent eras. So he alone was a representative restoring the foundational truths of God that the original 12 apostles taught.

A heady claim for sure.

In order to substantiate this claim, Hermon Hoeh (who was one of the early WCG Ambassador College and received his Doctorate in theology from Herbert himself) worked at the church’s headquarters and was tasked with examining the “True Church” through the centuries and trace it’s existence throughout history. While the WCG never claimed to have a perfect record of the church’s existence through the ages, they produced a book which was the manual on church history and in it they cited many historical sources that purported to show the church in snapshots throughout its history.

In this book, they claim the fourth era or Thyatira, existed during the medieval period with Peter Waldo as the most prominent leader and apostle to that church. They also claim his group was separate from the Catholic church and that they kept the Sabbath and Holy Days, in contrast to the Roman Catholic Church. Thus, Peter Waldo, who led the religious group known as the “Waldenses,” (which they identified as the 4th era) is used as a crucial link to connect the WCG, back to earlier eras.

Since the WCG boldly claimed one could trace their lineage and cited a variety of sources “proving” their claims, it should be relatively simple to examine those sources to see if they are true.

“In the Worldwide Church of God, Herbert Armstrong taught the doctrine of “Church eras” based on Revelation 2 and 3. This was central to his theology. ”— Ryan Caswell

WCG Offshoots Also Hold to This Belief

However, it is important to note that after Herbert Armstrong’s death, and the demise of the WCG, the hundreds of splinter groups that formed in its wake use the original church history book to substantiate their claims of church lineage. While some no longer publish openly the exact same quotes from the WCG book, they reference it in their sermons and among the membership.

There are 4 groups I would examine to see if they continue to claim Peter Waldo and the Waldenses were the crucial 4th era link.

United Church of God (UCG): While it appears they have removed the reference to Peter Waldo and the Waldenses in most of their public literature, you can still find references to them by searching the website. From their article “Famine of the Word,” when talking about the ancient church they state: “Consider this vignette from the Middle Ages. Many believe that Peter Waldo was converted about 1160, and translated the Scriptures into French to spread the good news to all who would hear him.” While in this article they don’t mention his role as apostle, they still imply his leadership as connected to their movement.

Additionally, an obscure sermon document still remains on their website dating back to 2018 called: “Spiritual Timeline of the True Church of God.” In this document, it identifies Waldo as a key member of the Thyatira era. So even though they may not publicly include it in their literature, it’s clear he still plays a key role in their history.

Church of God Worldwide Association (COGWA): This is a large spinoff group from the UCG, while they are nearly identical in teaching, they also don’t list much information on Peter Waldo or the Waldenses. However they do openly teach the doctrine of church eras. In their “Welcome to COGWA” brochure they do trace their roots through the Middle Ages (e.g. Peter Waldo) without listing him and his group as proof of how they do this. The brochure states: “This history continued in Asia Minor and, later, in Europe during the Middle Ages. The Church thrived for a time in England, but persecution eventually drove some of the believers to the American colonies in search of religious freedom.” So while they still believe it in tracing their lineage through the Middle Ages, they no longer commit to Waldo as a means to do this. One could wonder if there is a new link, or if they continue to use the Waldenses as a means to do so.

In their sermon materials, Jim Franks (COGWA’s president) explicitly covers their connection in the following sermon “A Study of Church History”

Living Church of God (LCG): This splinter group confirms their belief in Peter Waldo and the Waldenses as a crucial medieval link in their own church history materials. In “God’s Church Through the Ages” they state: “After the death of Henri in 1149, the Church languished and seemed to go into eclipse. A few years later, a wealthy merchant in Lyons, Peter Waldo, was struck down by an unusual circumstance and began preaching the Gospel in 1161. After being shocked into contemplating the real meaning of life as a result of the sudden death of a close friend, Waldo obtained a copy of the Scriptures and began studying God’s word. He was soon amazed to find that the Scriptures taught the very opposite of much of what he had learned during his Catholic upbringing.” There are many other quotes which they copied verbatim from the WCG literature that makes it clear on their belief that Peter Waldo is a link between the apostolic era and their own church.

Restored Church of God (RCG): Restored, a splinter of Global (which subsequently became LCG) uses Peter Waldo to establish their church’s lineage also through the medieval ages. They also copy most of the WCG book into their own materials using the exact quotes and sources that Herbert used decades ago. One particular example is this from Restored’s book “Where Is the True Church? and Its Incredible History!”, it states: “We do not find anywhere in the writings of the Old Testament that the light of truth and of holiness was at any time completely extinguished. There have always been men who walked faithfully in the paths of righteousness...We do not believe that the Church of God absolutely departed from the way of truth; but one portion yielded, and, as is commonly seen, the majority was led away to evil” (Hist. of Waldenses, Comba, pp. 10-11).” This passage is specifically quoting Waldenses documents. There are many other quotes that could be included but the net effect is that they are using the exact same history presented by the WCG to establish their church history, with Peter Waldo being a crucial link.

So while the successive groups may not explicitly publish their affirmation to WCG church history, they continue to borrow the same foundational material that their parent organization, the WCG established in the 1950’s.

“While the COG splinter groups may not explicitly publish their affirmation to WCG church history, they borrow the same foundational material as the WCG in the 1950’s.”— Ryan Caswell

Examining the Source

Interestingly, the initial draft of WCG’s True Church book was published in 1959. This was a time when the access to information was much more limited than today. Members back then often didn’t have the time, experience or access to the literature that Hermon Hoeh used to build his historical iteration of “God’s True Church.” However, in the internet age and through Google books, Wikipedia and a variety of other online library resources, we have searchable access to virtually any book going back hundreds of years. So If Herbert’s claims (and those of the splinter offshoots after him) surrounding church history were correct, then we should easily substantiate them by examining the same resources Hoeh did in the 1950s.

Let’s examine the following quote from the WCG book: “A True History of the True Church,” which was also used verbatim in the RCG book produced several decades later. The book reads:

“Here is a marvelous record from these people, still preserved, dated 1404: "We do not find anywhere in the writings of the Old Testament that the light of truth and of holiness was at any time completely extinguished. There have always been men who walked faithfully in the paths of righteousness. Their number has been at times reduced to a few; but has never been altogether lost. We believe that the same has been the case from the time of Jesus Christ until now; and that it will be so unto the end. FOR IF THE CHURCH OF GOD WAS FOUNDED, IT WAS IN ORDER THAT IT MIGHT REMAIN UNTIL THE END OF TIME ... We do not believe that the Church of God absolutely departed from the way of truth; but one portion yielded, and, as is commonly seen, the majority was led away to evil." (Quoted in Comba's "History", pp. 10-11.)

Their enemies admitted that these people proclaimed the gospel of the Kingdom of God, that they baptized repentant believers and obeyed the WHOLE law of God.

But just as there was a false teacher, Jezebel, in the local church at Thyatira so now there were many FALSE teachers and FALSE brethren among these people. Some rose up among the Waldenses teaching that it was right to have Catholics, and later, Protestants, baptize their children and to attend IDOLATROUS mass once in a while. Others committed spiritual fornication by meddling in politics in the hope of avoiding persecution.

To correct His people God caused a frightful crusade to pass over them about 300 years after the death of Waldo. Only a faithful remnant escaped.” “A True History of the True Church” - “Called the “Church of God,”” WCG Book

The quote seems to suggest that the Waldenses are an extension of the “True Church” or “Church of God,” that preached the Gospel as Herbert described, baptized and kept the whole old covenant law. Additionally, this church provides a link for WCG back to the original apostles.

However, note the ellipse in the middle of the passage. This is the crucial context removed from the original quote.

“Once the deleted comment is reinserted, it becomes clear that Comba, who was quoting a Waldense’ document, was describing the split between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church.”— Ryan Caswell

Removing Context

Consider the material that was ellipsed from the text:

“For if the Church of God was founded, it was in order that it might remain until the end of time. She preserved for a long time the virtue of holy religion, and, according to ancient history, her directors lived in poverty and humility for about three centuries; that is to say, down to the time of Constantine. Under the reign of this Emperor, who was a leper, there was in the Church a man named Sylvester, a Roman. Constantine went to him, was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and cured of his leprosy. The Emperor finding himself healed of a loathsome disease, in the name of Jesus Christ, thought he would honour him who had wrought the cure by bestowing upon him the Crown of the Emperor. Sylvester accepted it, but his companion, it is said, refused his consent, separated from him, and continued to follow the path of poverty. Then, Constantine went away to regions beyond the sea, followed by a multitude of Romans, and built up the city to which he gave his name--Constantinople--so that from that time the Heresiarch rose to honour and dignity, and evil was multiplied upon the earth. We do not believe that the Church of God, absolutely departed from the way of truth; but one portion yielded, and, as is commonly seen, the majority was led away to evil. The other portion remaining long faithful to the truth it had received. (Hoeh's deletion of History of the Waldenses of Italy, Emilio Comba, pp. 10-11)”

It is important to realize that Emilio Comba, was a celebrated Waldenses Pastor who lived during the early 1900’s. My assumption would be that he knows best how to position his group historically, rather than Herman Hoeh and the WCG.

Once the deleted comment is reinserted, it becomes clear that Comba, who was quoting a Waldense’ document, was describing the split between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. The “Church of God” in this passage is identified as the Catholic Church and that it was doctrinally pure through Pope Sylvester (who served 314-334 AD) and taught how it’s leaders should keep vows of poverty. Then, Constantine by founding the Eastern Orthodox Church was at fault.

This is completely different than how Herman Hoeh uses this quote. This isn’t identifying a small religious sect who kept the Jewish Sabbath or the Mosaic Laws. Comba identifies the “Church of God” as in fact the Catholic Church.

According to Comba, the Waldenses were Catholics in every way except their vow of poverty. Peter Waldo was simply a Catholic reformer, like Martin Luthor, who took a vow of poverty over his disagreements with the pope and was excommunicated from the “Church of God” (Catholic Church).

However this particular quote creates a humorous problem for COG members. If we were to re-insert Hoeh’s deleted quote into the church literature, it identifies the WCG as a splinter of the Catholic Church.

“Peter Waldo was originally a Catholic reformer, like Martin Luthor, who took a vow of poverty to resist the Pope. He was a Catholic in every way, with no documentation existing to suggesting otherwise. ”— Ryan Caswell

Is the WCG Truthful in Dealing with Historical Source Material?

A bigger question though is, “Was Herman Hoeh and the WCG treating historical documents truthfully?” It is obvious he deleted context from the original quote to make it sound much differently than it was originally intended. In doing so he radically changed the meaning of the passage. From my experience, reviewing source materials in other WCG literature, there are many other deceptions like this. Its quite common. Whether on British Israelism or church history, WCG used deceptive tactics to twist historical records. One has to question, would God allow his “One True Church,” to use such obvious errors to establish this crucial link in their church’s historical chain?

It is important to note that the Waldenses Church still exists and can easily be found online. Throughout the 1900’s, they have often been used as a “missing link” for religious sects who wanted to bolster their credibility. Over the years, they have refuted any involvement in Armstrongism and the Adventist movement. This includes the Seventh Day Adventists, the group where Herbert Armstrong “borrowed” much of his history from.

Peter Waldo was originally a Catholic reformer, like Martin Luthor, who took a vow of poverty to resist the Pope. He was a Catholic in every way, with no documentation existing to suggest he kept the Jewish Sabbath, Jewish Holy Days, or any of the Mosaic Laws. For a more exhaustive examination of the Waldenses, I recommend Bruce Renehim’s book “Daughter of Babylon.”

The splinter groups that formed after the collapse of the WCG similarly teach that Peter Waldo and his Waldenses are a crucial link in church history connecting their particular offshoot with the first century church. While they may not include this in written materials, you can find it in their sermons and references to it in other materials. They rely on the same historical errors to establish their history also.

This one passage is a prime example of Herman Hoeh and the WCG twisting historical records to imply scholarly credibility. Since we have more information at our fingertips today than previous generations, we can more easily see through these inaccuracies.

Always examine the source documentation and find out what the text says for yourself.

Dating Tips From The Greatest Church of God In Human History! Woo Hoo!

Learn how to pick up a hot date in the produce aisle at your local market. 

This is how the one true church does it, 

unlike you promiscuous Laodiceans who go to bars and nightclubs.

Would you look to a man who has been an utter failure in prophecy, biblical interpretation, and running a splinter group, to tell you how to date?

Well, get ready boys and girls, the Great Bwana to Africa, and 100 Caucasians is here to do that. 

Woo Hoo!

This truly is the most pathetic thing you will ever watch...

narrated by the Great Bwana himself.

The Great Bwana to Africa, Bob Mzungu Thiel has this to say about dating in the greatest Church of God to ever exist in human history!

Should a first date be between two experienced pickup artists interested in fornication? Or should it be between a man and a woman who would like to actually know each other better? Does the Bible give any guidelines that Christians who date should pay attention to? If so, what are some? This brief animation shows a worldly pickup date at a bar, and an inelegant, but appropriate request for a date in a more open environment. Dating should be fun and involve communication, and not regrets. So, check out our animation on worldly vs. Christian dating.

Dating is a key to success in marriage. Should Christians have different dating standards than those who are not real Christians? How are men and women different? Can people fall in love? What should people do on a date? What about getting physical? Who should pay for the date? What should a man expect from a date? What should a woman expect from a date? What should be the authority for morals? What should a date be like? Dr. Thiel addresses these issues and more. This is part one of a two-part series.

What do you do when the Greatest Church of God ever to exist in human history 

is so incredibly SMALL that there is no one to date? 

Never fear! The Bwana is here!

This is the second part of a two-part sermon on dating for Christians. In it, Dr. Thiel covers subjects such as what do you do if there is no one to date, if Christians can date or marry someone not part of the Continuing Church of God, dating for marriage, and pre-engagement counseling. He also provides answers to questions that teens have had about dating. He goes into the use of ‘social media’, avoidance of trolling, sexting, and some other matters somewhat unique to the 21st century. Dr. Thiel goes over factors such as cultural, racial, financial, age, mental, education, family, and other factors Christians should consider. He also discusses dating for those who have been married before, as well as if married couples should still date.

That first date after listening to the Great Bwana pontificate:

 

Dave Pack: Bettor Late Than Never...Dave Blew Off LGD AM Services

 

Bettor Late…

The openly practiced hypocrisy of David C. Pack cannot be overstated. Last week, the Pastor General of The Restored Church of God handed out stern warnings to the Headquarters Feast of Tabernacles attendees that if they intended to leave the Feast early or skipped the Last Great Day, God might kill them.

 

Part 473 – October 5, 2023

@ 09:43 Here’s another powerful point. And it’s very powerful. And I’m gonna warn the church right now. I’m gonna give a very strong warning and a rebuke to people thinking of leaving.

 

@ 13:37 You may not even get home.

 

After planting the mental seed that execution was a post-Feast activity option, Dave appealed to the more snitch-minded members to clean off their spy goggles and entirely ignore the instructions of Matthew 18:15-17.

 

@ 14:37 If you know of anybody who’s gonna leave the Feast, tell us now so we can maybe save their life. Maybe warn them and save their life. If not, expel them.

 

@ 14:59 I’m glad I have the opportunity to stand up and speak like this.

 

I am glad I have the opportunity, too. After his “powerful warnings” about not skipping commanded assemblies as the time draws near, it was a curious “gift” what David C. Pack admitted two days later.

Part 474 – The Last Great Day – October 7, 2023

@ 36:40 I di–literally did not know about this attack till I walked in the door at about a quarter of 11 [AM] because I was going over a few little things, so I got here late for Services. I wuddn’t even here at 10.

 

Dave realized what words fell from his lips and abruptly started moonwalking his statements.

 

@ 36:53 Maybe maybe the maybe it was about twenty-five till 11. Something like that. Hafta remember what it was.

 

His body language shifted right at the moment of sobriety. He scratched his head, looked down, and dropped his voice. That is what liars do.

 

The same man handing out “powerful” threats to members neglecting Holy Day services admitted to the entire Restored Church of God membership that he neglected a Holy Day.

 

Pastor General David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God was late to the Last Great Day. The hypocrisy runs more profound than that.

 

 

Was Elijah That Prophet tardy because he was planning on giving a sermon? No.

 

@ 01:18 Only a few closing comments had been planned.

 

Was the Fraudulent Branch late because of critical instructions from God? No.

 

@ 36:47 …because I was going over a few little things…

 

After arriving at the Hall of Administration, did the Blaspheming Messenger of the Covenant attend the AM Service? No.

 

@ 36:19 I prepared today’s sermon faster than any time I ever have in my life…

 

David C. Pack was upstairs in the Third Floor Executive Imaginarium learning about the war in Israel while the rest of The Restored Church of God assembled together on the Holy Day.

 

But even before that, he was perfectly comfortable coming late on the Last Great Day for no pressing reason. Just because he could.

 

If any of the visiting brethren had done that for ANY reason, they would have received a personalized sermonette across the hall about “disrespecting God,” “not fearing God,” “being self-willed,” “having an Israelite attitude,” and “thinking the rules don't apply to you,” how it was “a commanded assembly” and all the brethren “must walk together in unity and everyone else showed up on time” and on and on and on.

 

Nobody on the face of the earth is ranked high enough to chastise David C. Pack. He is above all correction. He is above reproach. He is most high, after all. His flexible attitude about the start time of services (or attending at all) has been documented repeatedly on exrcg.org.

 

David C. Pack verbally confirmed what I have been reporting for over a year. Once again, he validated what you read on exrcg.org.

 

 

David C. Pack's arriving in the building 45 minutes late has unspoken implications.

 

Mrs. Pack must be pretty accustomed to the empty chair next to her during services. Yet again, she was the one to place the green envelope into the offering basket because her husband was attending to more important matters like “a few little things.” She wisely took it with her when she left the house as if she already knew he would be a no-show.

 

You better attend the Holy Day, brethren, or you might not make it home.

 

But Dave will be fine.

 

You better give your offering with a pure heart and cheerful attitude before God.

 

But Dave will be fine.

 

Do not forsake the assembling together as you see the day approaching, people.

 

But Dave will be fine.

 

hy-poc-ri-sy

the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform

 

The one thing David C. Pack does not skip is the meal. Whether it is a Holy Day, Spokesman's Club Ladies Night, or a Sabbath potluck, the man is always present to stuff his mouth. All the other junk on either side of that event is subject to the coin toss of his presence.

 

There is no amount of rushing to call out anything under the sun that would keep him from grasping his fork to enjoy a meal he did not prepare and sometimes did not even pay for.

 

@ 58:18 The Last Great Day is called a solemn assembly. A holy convocation…which means a commanded assembly.

 

A commanded assembly David C. Pack was comfortable being late for. This means he does not believe the commands of God apply to him. If the command to assemble on a Holy Day does not apply to The Apostle, what other commands is he comfortable ignoring? What other command-breaking goes on at the Headquarters of The Restored Church of God that “lesser” enabling hirelings are too cowardly to hold him accountable for?

 

Kaiju Dave is god over there. He can do whatever he wants whenever he wants. He can preach anything, and nobody makes a peep. That is why the Spirit of Antichrist thrives at Headquarters. When good men do nothing, evil prevails. There may just be no more good men left.

 

 

Dave's “powerful” warning two days earlier proved later to be a double-bladed sword he cut himself on. The first cut involved him disregarding what he told everyone else to regard. The second cut was conjuring a reverie that his threats made an actual impact on anyone in RCG.

 

Right after teaching the church the importance of a commanded assembly, Dave trailed off into the realm of make-believe.

@ 58:28 And I bet you…

 

Stop.

 

David C. Pack is telling everyone that what he is about to say is fiction. He has no evidence to support his claims. His “bet” is an illusion using the power of presumption to verbally invent imaginary members and manufacture reality by talking until it becomes true.

 

@ 58:28 And I bet you some who were gonna leave the Feast decided to stay…

 

He knows this based on what? Nothing. If he knew if it were real, he would cite an example. But he cannot because there is not. “I bet you” is a preface meaning, “I don’t know this to be true, but I think it could be.”

 

Things are real in The Restored Church of God because Dave says so, just like his doctrines and titles.

 

@ 58:33…and I’d just about bet you (I don't bet, but) that some who were warned went home anyway.

 

Oh yeah? Who did that? Nobody.

 

Hey Brad, please tell me—oh wait. I forgot. Brad Schleifer no longer reads these articles. My bad.

 

Well, IF Brad WERE still reading, I would have asked him to fact-check this for me because I do not believe for one second that even a single human being across the entire globe left the Feast of Tabernacles or Last Great Day early. The caveat to that would be the Pastor General, but he does not count in this context.

 

If any zealous field hirelings want to check CRM and let me know, I will type a correction and admit my error publicly.

 

In the meantime, the scenario inside RCG where anyone was going to leave but stayed or was going to leave and did anyway is pure fantasy.

 

This is Dave making himself the hero of his own story. He tried to warn them. Some listened. Some rebelled. He finds odd ways to pat himself on the back and wants it so painfully, he invents a magical “win” when there is none else to be found.

 

This entire concept is baloney-stuffed malarkey topped with fairy dust and happy thoughts.

 

But for those in RCG, it is true because “Mr. Pack said so.”

 

 

With the money angle never far from his thoughts, Dave applied more financial pressure just after the brethren gave their fourth offering in two weeks. Well, except for him. His wife did that.

 

@ 58:38 Just like some are told, “Sell all that you have,” and they look God in the mirror and say, “I'm gonna disobey you. I will not do it. I don’t care how many times Christ says sell all, I don’t care how many times I’d read in the New Testament from day one everybody gave what they had as Common, I don’t care what happened to Ananias and Sapphira. That’s them, not me. I’m not gonna obey God, but I think this is His church.” But, they oughta just look and say, “God, I'm gonna disobey you and end the charade. I'm outta here. I'm not gonna keep the Feast, which is a great test or money is a great test.” We have people like both of those. They don’t care what God says. My thought is, “Well, then, why aren’t you just Lutherans who don’t do anything God says? Go have a ham sandwich and believe in the Trinity.” But they don't.

 

Dave pontificated on a vague timetable for the Kingdom’s arrival. He threw out Cheshvan 1 (October 16) as a possible deadline but would not commit to anything. The failure on the Opening Night of The Feast of Tabernacles really singed his nose hairs.

 

@ 1:16:17 Or maybe they’ll send their Common to the church. We won't need it. But if you want eternal life and not sudden death, you better do it.

 

Throwing in another death threat for good measure certainly is not due to his overwhelming outgoing love and concern for the brethren. They are his merchandise, his cattle. But the milk from the teats no longer fills the bucket.

 

Dave would not be begging for Common if he thought the time was too short to spend it. He desperately needs it. The biggest question on my mind is, “Which house will be the first put on the market this winter?” The members living on Hartman Road may want to consider collecting as many cardboard boxes as possible. Starting now.

 

You cannot get blood from a turnip. Many still in RCG already gave their Common, so they offer little help keeping the ship afloat. The Headquarters Campus cannot survive on tithes and offerings alone.

 

That is why exrcg.org continues to report on the happenings inside The Restored Church of God. Some current members know about these efforts, but they are now mainly to warn people before they contact RCG. Keeping the Common money from walking in the door is where the “invisible impact” lives. Due to that audience, the Headquarters leadership has no way to quantify exrcg.org's actual footprint. Quite frankly, I do not either. But enough pre-PMs reach out on occasion to keep me motivated.

 

I hold very little hope for anyone who stays in The Restored Church of Another god at this point. David C. Pack teaches antichrist theology, driving the organization deeper into blasphemous apostasy. If people have not left yet, they may never.

 

The exceptions to that are “the leakers.” They stay as living sacrifices to ensure information gets out. Their efforts are greatly appreciated. The individuals who continue to shine the light in the darkness are the real heroes.

 

And I bet that pisses Dave off.

Marc Cebrian

See: Bettor Late…

CGI: "Prove All Things" A No Show

 

I was willing

Lonnie Hendrix

Many of the regular readers of this blog will recall that CGI’s Jeff Reed invited some of the folks who regularly appear on this blog to appear on the program which he hosts with Mike James, Prove All Things. In fact, Jeff and Mike devoted an entire episode of that program to Banned by HWA back in August (without any guests from the site).

In response, despite a great deal of trepidation about participating in their forum, I publicly and privately accepted Jeff’s invitation. I reasoned that the courage exhibited by Jeff via wading into our forum demanded that I reciprocate. Moreover, both Mike and Jeff assured me that the forum would be friendly and nonconfrontational. Indeed, there was even some discussion about doing more than one appearance, but I suggested that we wait and see whether or not we were pleased with the initial experience before committing ourselves to do more.

Since that invitation and reply, however, there has not been any effort to follow through on the proposal. To be completely transparent, I did reach out to Jeff about a month ago and inquired whether or not they were still planning on doing the episode and was assured that they were. Subsequently, there hasn’t been any communication from either side about the proposal.

In the meantime, NO2HWA published a post by me that was critical of Canadian CGI Pastor Adrian Davis’ messaging about public health measures related to Covid-19. Interestingly, none of the CGI leadership team has chosen to respond to the post. Indeed, as far as I know, nothing was done to address Pastor Davis’ open defiance of CGI leadership on the matter or to respond to his insistence that they repent of expressing support for public health measures. So, it appears that the courage which was previously demonstrated has evaporated – that it was only a “flash in the pan.”

Whatever the reason for the inactivity and silence, I wanted to make clear to our readers that I did not back out of my commitment to appear on CGI’s forum. The decision not to move forward with the project is/was entirely their own. I continue to be open to challenges to the views expressed here and am willing to defend those which have been expressed by me in various posts appearing here and on my own blog. Moreover, I would also like to take this opportunity to invite Vance Stinson, Jeff Reed, and Mike James to comment here whenever they wish to explain their perspective or defend themselves against any criticism of their doctrines which may appear here in the future.

Church Hopping In The Churches of God

 

We have long discussed here how many of the African churches hop from one organization to another, particularly when it comes to Sabbatarian groups. This was especially evident in the Great Bwana to Africa Bob Thiel's little group.

Christian missionaries in Africa have long recognized that this is an ongoing issue with churches that identify as Christian. Groups go from one organization to another when they find more money and tangible items like, food, computers, building materials, etc being provided as ways to induce members into switching sides. But, Bob being a Bob, has denied his little group would NEVER do such a thing. After all, these are TRUE followers of the one TRUE church on earth today led by the one TRUE man. 

While I am sure that the members of these groups are very sincere in their beliefs and understanding, it is the leadership of these groups who tend to be the ones looking for the latest and best opportunity from American-based church groups.

The above screenshot is from the Church of God Scattered Flock, run by Gary Liebold, based out of Seminole, Florida.

One of his church leaders in Africa admits his group has jumped from one Armstrongst Church of God to the next:

Currently, Church of God Scattered Faithful in Kenya has 53 persons attending church services, including 17 baptized members, 14 who are interested in and awaiting baptism, and 22 who are children below 17 years old. Most here came from the Worldwide Church of God, Global Church of God, United Church of God, and the Living Church of God. Our last church affiliation was the Living Church of God, but we left the Living Church of God over doctrinal issues. Since then, we have been renting a meeting place.

This isn't unique to African churches though. American Church of God members do the exact same thing, though they are not looking for tangible gifts, but for those who have the right "truth". 

All of them look for whoever is keeping the best truth of a man. Not being a follower of Jesus, but of the man, Herbert Armstrong. What can we expect when we have this kind of nonsense slathered on our brains almost weekly:

This is how brainwashed we were. This is also what allowed hundreds and hundreds of splinter groups to arise over the decades. Each was led by a man who decided he knew better how to interpret Herbert Armstrong's words than the previous guy did. None of these guys ever said when they decided to break off, "Hey, let's follow Jesus for once and do what is right." instead it was always about who was following the closest to Herbert Armstrong's teachings.

Church hopping in Africa will continue from one Sabbatartian group to the next. American church hoppers will continue to jump from one organization to the next as the group leaders die off leaving their groups rudderless. 

The Absoluteness of God: Why the Anthropomorphic Language Describing God in the Old Testament is Allegory

 

The Absoluteness of God

Why the Anthropomorphic Language Describing God in the Old Testament is Allegory

By Ranger

“Imagery was never intended to define God; rather, imagery is a window through which we see aspects and facets of the nature and character of God.” -- William Paul Young, “Lies We Believe About God”, p. 73, 2017.  

God is absolute.  I think it is difficult for the human mind to deal with the concept of absoluteness.  We are much more familiar with those things that are relative.  “Relative” and “absolute” are opposites. If something is relative, it exists on a scale and it is conceivable that it can be scaled up and scaled down. For instance, one person can run faster than another person.  If something is absolute, it is not defined across a graded scale but is total.

Absoluteness is a part of our reality.  The idea of “nothing” denotes something that is absolute.  The null set contains nothing and that is without conceivable exception. But it is a philosophical concept, an abstraction that does not map well to anything we know experientially.  Absoluteness, however, is not just an abstraction. Physicists regard the speed of light as absolute among other absolute physical constants. And also, the Bible tells us that God is absolute and we will turn to that next.

The Exegetical Argument for the Absoluteness of God

Those who point out that God is absolute are often criticized for not having supporting scriptures. People are skeptical because, I think, that God’s absoluteness is profoundly disturbing to many.  It’s like a scenario where some guy lives in a cave all of his life.  And at the age of forty or so someone tells him the cave is not the whole world and leads him to the surface.  As they stand on the surface in daylight, he sees the boundless sky for the first time.  Does he exult?  No, I think he would be profoundly disturbed, maybe even terrified, and would want to immediately retreat to the enclosed security of the cave.  Same scenario concerning God’s absoluteness. 

God’s absoluteness is difficult for those atheists who see evolution as the driving force of the Cosmos.  Hawking said, "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing".  That odd statement assumes the existence of gravity, gives no etiology of the Cosmic infrastructure, and is apparently the best that advanced cosmology can offer.  The absolute God is the source of the non-evolutionary features of reality, such as existence itself, time, space, the organizational infrastructure (particles and sub-particles) of matter, and others. 

So, here are some scriptures.  It is important to point out that this is not a proof of God’s existence.  That is a separate discussion. This is a logical, scripture-based argument that the Bible asserts an absolute God. 

An exegesis:

“By the word of the Lord the heavens were made and all their host by the breath of his mouth.” (Psalm 33:6)

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1, KJV)

“By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.” (Heb 11:3, ESV)

“All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.” (John 1:3)

It is clear that the Bible asserts that God, the uncaused first cause, created all from nothing.  If God created all things then there were no already existing things from which to fabricate the universe.  If God had pre-existing substances, then he did not create all things and is not a creator but a fabricator.  In Gnostic terminology, a fabricator is not God but a demi-urge.  The Bible supports God as creator and not God as fabricator.  God the creator then created all things from nothing as testified by scripture.  

This means that God created and controls, in totality and without qualification, the created realm including our Cosmos, which is our objective reality.  The created realm is his in all of its existential features. Reality does not operate outside his purview as its creator.  He created our reality and has absolute possession of it.  His complete possession of it does not exist on a scale of some sort.  He doesn’t just happen to own the created realm more than others who might be co-owners, for instance.  He is absolute. 

To Define God by Anthropomorphic Language is to Portray Him as Relative and Deny is Absoluteness

Without a doubt, the Old Testament describes God in human terms.  But such scriptures as Psalm 33:6 above tell us that this is not the full story.   While there is no neat, cohesive exposition of God’s absoluteness in the Old Testament, we may understand it from the distributed data we are given.  

Humans are relative beings.  A man may be very strong because of superior musculature. Others may be stronger or weaker than the man.  Power in our realm is relative. Some stars generate great energy and other stars lesser energy.  A similar scale exists for intelligence.  God created human powers and capabilities and they are relative.  To say that God is “all-mighty” is the application of a human relative term to God.  God may be seen as all-mighty through the lens of human relativity in order to make God more intelligible to humans but it is not a characterization of God in his ontology, his existential essence.  God is absolute.  Levels of power are meaningless to him.  This kind of relative power that is relevant to humans is utterly irrelevant to God.  He is not just the biggest kid on the block.  And human beings will never be absolute like the uncreated God is.  There is an ontological category difference between God and humans in spite of the sound bite “God as God is God.”  But that is a separate discussion.  The sales pitch to you that you are going to be God-as-God-is-God is a blatant fable.  You are relative now and forever.  As a created being you will rejoice forever in what God creates ex nihilo (Isaiah 65:18).  You will not be a creator but rather a fabricator. 

The rule is that if a descriptor is scalable, it is anthropomorphic and allegorical when applied to the absolute God. To accept the anthropomorphic language of the Old Testament as descriptive of God in his essence is to diminish him in the mind to being relative and a denial of his actual absoluteness.

A Remark on Poetry/Allegory in the Bible

I once heard from the Armstrongist pulpit that God rides on a cherub when he goes places.  After all, in Psalm 18:10, it says:

“And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.”

This text creates a dramatic picture in the mind, but it is poetry.  It is not literally true but is a vivid word painting.  It allegorizes God’s swiftness in coming to the rescue of Israel. One might argue that this statement is poetry because God is omnipresent and does not need to go from point A to point B (he is already at both points) and certainly not riding on a cherub – a parallel to human equestrian travel.  But while the intentions of the argument are good, there is a problem with the appeal to omnipresence.  

On careful consideration, the word omnipresent is a relative rather than absolute concept.  Human beings may occupy place in space.  Three coordinates can identify that place.  But omnipresence means that God occupies all places in space. But what about God’s presence in non-spatial realms?  So, omnipresence is just an intensification of the human ability to occupy a place in space.  It remains a relative concept.  But, in fact, God created space and is not bound by the three-dimensional coordinate system.  Humans do not have good words to describe this idea.  There is very little language of absoluteness in our daily talk.  Writers of theology tend to use the term “transcendent” to capture those qualities of God that are beyond our human relative experience.  And if we are careful with language, we must admit that God transcends such terms as omnipresence that are based on human relativity. 

Summary Statement

Among those who are close readers of scripture, to believe that God as a relative being in essence is the ultimate lèse majesté.  God is great beyond our knowing.  We cannot plumb the depths of his absoluteness.  Like “infinity”, absoluteness knows no limitations.  Yet, we are made in his image.  He has placed a little flame of his endless, brilliant fire in the small lamps that we are.  No doubt many followers of God down through the ages have thought of him in relative terms rather than absolute terms without injury but also without a fitting appreciation of God.  But for those who wish to consider, the horizon is dispelled and boundlessness enters in.  

Note: I always marvel that when I write something that exalts God, it makes Armstrongists angry because what I have written does not conform to HWA’s declarations.  It as if they have no ability to consider anything for themselves but always default to what HWA said.  If God is anthropomorphic and relative like HWA has asserted, I would like to see a well-reasoned rebuttal to what I have written here – not just a collection of ad hominem attacks and inane sound bites. 

"The Israeli blood spilled upon the altar of David C. Pack’s megalomania is a perfectly timed sacrifice necessary to perpetuate his lies."

 

Israeli Preoccupation

 

The filthiness of all David C. Pack’s prophetic sins was washed clean by the blood of Israelis this weekend. During "The Greatest Untold Story! (Part 474)" on October 7, 2023, the Pastor General of The Restored Church of God exploited the horrific atrocities against Israel on the Last Great Day to prop up his self-perceived biblical legitimacy.

 

When the Kingdom of God neglected to appear on the Feast of Trumpets and the Opening Night of the Feast of Tabernacles, David C. Pack became increasingly desperate to whitewash his recent string of failures. After swearing off date-setting during the Feast, he continued to give “maybe” dates supported by lists that “suggested” the Kingdom’s arrival was only days away.

 

The shocking event early Saturday morning provided David C. Pack with “the lucky break” he had been praying for. The vile attacks committed by Hamas handed him a means to perpetuate the illusion of his authority as a man chosen by God to end the Mystery of God, unseal Daniel, and proclaim the arrival of Jesus Christ.

 

“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.”

― Rahm Emanuel

 

 

David C. Pack interweaves the war in Israel with his realizing that he had the Kingdom timing wrong. The two are linked to fulfill a transcendent purpose.

 

Part 474 – October 7, 2023

@ 01:25 …on Thursday, I began to develop a sense (I’ll explain this) that we could go beyond the Last Great Day. And, of course, the Feast of Tabernacles. It matured yesterday. Last night. I was still a little hopeful yesterday…that our wait might be over. But, no more.

 

@ 02:06 A great Bible prophecy is underway. I long saw (partially understood), but not fully.

 

@ 03:52 Now, you know I’ve long-wrestled whether I’m to announce a date. Many verses suggest Yes. Others No.

 

@ 05:53 But, my job has been to try to see and examine all these other possibilities…Going another year is not one of them, and there was never any doubt of that, but war in Israel today ended all possibility that that could happen. 

 

The world cannot go on another year without Jesus Christ returning because of what began in Israel this weekend. So says David C. Pack.

 

@ 11:29 But, I walked in this morning to powerful confirmation of timing. And I wanna cite…what began in Israel this morning.

 

@ 21:54 Let’s remember, I’m gonna show you God did this. I’ll show you His own words where He says what happened today was by His hand, and it becomes the greatest metric. I just wondered [chuckles] when we would see it.

 

David C. Pack chuckled. He read verses about God’s vengeance upon Israel, he read news stories describing the death and kidnappings of Israeli civilians by Hamas terrorists, and then, he still finds a reason to chuckle.

 

Thankfully, for the members of The Restored Church of God, their Pastor General has a complete understanding of world events, so he can confidently lead them into the promised land on schedule.

 

@ 30:43 So, what are we actually seeing? What are we seeing? What is this? What are we seeing on the Last Great Day of the Feast?

 

The attack came just in the nick of time for David C. Pack to draw a parallel between his revised suspected timing for the arrival of the Kingdom of God and elderly people being murdered in Israel.

 

@ 35:17 “..and I [God] did it.” Hamas didn’t do this. Now, you have two choices in a way. To say, “Well, Mr. Pack, you sure you got this placed right?” Maybe this massive attack on the Last Great Day of the Feast, when we believe the Kingdom of God is near, is a coincidence. Those are your choices.

 

The crossing of two lines does not equal providence. Let us reason together.

 

Line #1: The enemies of God’s people in the Old Testament tried to use obedience to God as an advantage to thwart them. Daniel, Esther, Nehemiah, and Ezra recorded this. The modern nation of Israel is historically attacked on a Sabbath or a Holy Day. This weekend was the fiftieth anniversary of the 1973 attack by Egypt and Syria. The enemies of modern Israel know when they are most vulnerable: on solemn observance days.

 

Line #2: Every single Holy Day in The Restored Church of God since 2019 is a “Feast when we believe the Kingdom of God is near.” Every year, every Holy Day is a “keep watching” occasion. Whether it is Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles, or the Last Great Day, David C. Pack fills his followers with hopeful ideas that “this” is the time because we “cannot go another year.”

 

Line #1 intersected with Line #2 on Saturday. It was not divine. It was inevitable. The collision of two non-miraculous circumstances crossing paths does not mean Bible prophecy manifested before our eyes. 

 

It also does not prove David C. Pack’s validity as an apostle, prophet, or even a man of God. He fraudulently invented the circumstances by which RCG brethren “believe the Kingdom of God is near” and then shamelessly capitalized on the brutalities committed against Israel to further the fantasy that he has some great insight into what God is doing and when He will do it.

 

It is all a lie. Do not believe David C. Pack. Do not fear David C. Pack. He heeds to the Spirit of Error and the Spirit of Antichrist, enabled by cowardly hirelings like Ryan Denee, Jaco Viljoen, and Frank Lydick, who care not for the sheep.

 

 

@ 35:41 I find fascinating that before this attack, I’d come to realize we have a little more time. “We’re not quite there measuring this right.” 

 

The mirage of confirmation is amplified by the power of presumption.

 

@ 35:56 When this happened…I knew immediately what my assignment was. I finally understood my last assignment. I was to rush to carry out. Now, I’ve given thousands and thousands of sermons. I’ve given almost five hundred just in this Series. You imagine how many thousands of sermons I’ve prepared? I prepared today's sermon faster than any time I ever have in my life, and I'd been giving full sermons over fifty years. I never prepared one this fast.

 

Thousands of sermons over fifty years prepared, and this one was the fastest. This "fact" carries significance only because he says so. Also, notice that he knew immediately what his assignment was rather than God giving him the assignment. His assignment came from inside his own carnal mind by the power of presumption. Not from God.

 

@ 38:24 “But make it plain.” I can now make it plain by simply talking about what you’re gonna hear on every television station almost anywhere in the world. Or every website. My job is not to tell you what news commenters or world leaders would say but to make plain what it means.

 

@ 39:11 So, my assignment became clear and immediate. Rush without notice to call out and make plain the vision that Habakkuk saw. And why it’s gonna last a little while.

 

For those in RCG who happen upon this article near the Feast in 2024, please remember the words of your Pastor General. Remember how the October 7, 2023 events meant the Kingdom was only a tiny, tiny micron away. And remember that the vision Habakkuk shrieked over was Hamas terrorists slaughtering Israeli civilians.

 

Today and in 2024, the words of David C. Pack will prove that David C. Pack had no idea what it meant or what God was "gonna do" before Cheshvan 1. If you remember, why are you still there?

 

@ 1:00:25 Now, it’s easy to understand. It’s easy. There should be no one alive in this church who cannot now see “the day” approaching. See what Habakkuk saw.

 

For those who have not been reading these articles since June 2022, you would be astounded at the “easy to understand” teachings David C. Pack had to later recant and admit, "I thought I understood. But now I do." He will absolutely do that again when he is forced to “clarify” the vision Habakkuk saw. It will surely come. Wait for it.

 

 

Matthew 12:34

…for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

 

Matthew 7:20

Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.

 

Proverbs 18:7

A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul.

@ 1:00:55 So, I want you to think of this terrible event where babies are being slaughtered like dogs and old people, too, and you know, Palestinians dying, I mean, it’s terrible. You don’t want to see anybody die.

 

His choice of using “you” here instead of “I” or “we” is fascinating. This fully supports my growing understanding of the man.

 

@ 1:01:11 But think of this terrible event (and I’m gonna use a term with quotes around it) as a “final, great prophesied gift—gift” to those watching that we have the right year.

 

In David C. Pack’s perverted theology, Israeli citizens being kidnapped and murdered by terrorist monsters proves he is right about timing.

 

If you think that is a flawed analysis of his viewpoint, think again.

 

@ 1:15:24 I’ve explained this great prophecy that nobody ever understood about God’s warfare by His hand and affliction by His hand in Judah and Jerusalem that tells us we’re close. And I just don’t think He wants to divulge it.

 

@ 1:15:46 But, maybe He wouldn’t want everybody else to know who hear because we have people who leak the news outta the church. Or the word gets out ‘cause we have enemies.

 

If you listen carefully to what David C. Pack said, report on what David C. Pack said, and remember what David C. Pack said, you are considered his enemy.

 

I, Marc Cebrian, am perfectly comfortable with that. He can call me an enemy. The one thing he cannot call me is a liar.

 

 

This weekend, the "final, great gift" for David C. Pack was receiving an opportune circumstance that fuels his self-deception while also shocking doubting brethren back into line. If not for evil-minded Hamas terrorists, most RCG brethren would have gone home from the Feast disappointed because nothing happened the way their Pastor General said it would. The Kingdom of God did not arrive. Jesus Christ did not come.

 

But now, horrific world news gets the prophetic adrenaline pumping, and people crawling over the fence are startled back into the yard they planned to escape. This buys Dave more time of perceived legitimacy with impending world doom, drawing doubters back to the teat of cultish familiarity.

 

A war in Israel works out so much better for David C. Pack than just setting a date three months away. The gory headlines will provide self-sustaining fears and fervent Bible study that will glue members to their chairs, ensuring they get to Sabbath Services every week and not hold back on the tithe checks. 

 

During a crisis, nobody leaves the safety of an organization promising protection and good things just ahead. Only a few more weeks, everyone. Just a few more weeks…

 

The Israeli blood spilled upon the altar of David C. Pack’s megalomania is a perfectly timed sacrifice necessary to perpetuate his lies. He will feed off the reported corpses of babies to reinvigorate the crumbling façade that he is God’s Messenger.

 

Make no mistake. David C. Pack is a documented false apostle, false teacher, blaspheming liar, hypocrite, and proponent of antichrist theology who will clutch on to the crisis in Israel and ride it for as long as he can. He is a proven false prophet who will not "eventually" become a true prophet. Not by divine fiat. Not by accident.

 

Do not let fear from your news feed deceive you that David C. Pack knows anything about what God is doing today or that "someday" he will finally figure it out. If you believe your Bible, then you know he is forever forbidden from speaking on God’s behalf in prophetic matters.

 

Brethren, please remember that no matter how bad things get in the world, none of it makes David C. Pack right. No matter how much fire and blood paint the headlines, they do not mean David C. Pack has God's authority. There are not enough earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanoes, terrorist attacks, or nuclear explosions that will ever make David C. Pack true.

 

David C. Pack will intentionally use the war in Israel to preoccupy your mind and keep you from accepting what you already know.

Marc Cebrian

See: Israeli Preoccupation