Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Herbert was the chief narcissist of the Church of God. He needed to be seen and adored. To have his picture taken with all of these celebrities and leaders puffed up his ego and vanity. None of them ever thought about the guy again after they received their money. All his money did (actually our tithe money) was buy his way into photo ops so he could publish them in the church rags. Then the gullible church members would be sooooooooo impressed they would send in more money.
As most of the information on the "anti" blogs is misrepresented, I was misrepresented also.
My entire point always was and has been the following.
Tithe money paid for a nice movie that lasted. Tithe money paid for the red cross. Tithe money paid for World Wildlife Fund in its inception phase. Tithe money paid for medicine research. Tithe money paid for China - US relations. China - British relations (Oxford Chair) Mediation services in California now implemented in the entire USA The 9th circuit court.
And zillions of other causes.
So yes the WCG 's (well your) money is up to this date still having a lasting influence for the good. And you are well aware that I could go on and on and on,using the international awards by emperors and kings as a tool to find where our money went. And I am satisfied with the leverage, that's all.
I'm not impressed! I meet these people now and then. It's just that I am at peace with where some of the money went.
And yes the digs in Syria did not seem to have the lasting beneficial effect. Since the US changed its paradigm lately and let the Russians take over. A Vietnam those were the days when we sponsored the American King of Thailand.
This is hilarious and I don't mean the lousy film. Never expected hwa to have been in Leicester Square cinema. It's still there and now an odeon cinema. Still looks the same.
nck shows us all once again how completely out of touch with reality he is. Defending a crook like HWA is pathetic. Armstrongism has had ZERO effect upon civilization. Other than a few bonze plaques in some locations, no one knows who the pervert was.
Hello 5:11 Perhaps you notice that I do not mention the name of HWA. But I grant you the construe of an accusation of a defense of Armstrongism. I am only talking about the money and the causes. You say I am out of touch with reality.
And you dare say that in the same week that the president (elect) of the united states of america calls the EU a German construct for its own aims. You dare say that on the same day that the unfathomable (at the time) Brexit is announced by PM May. You dare say that on the very date that the elites gather in Davos while the Odeon theatre served exactly that purpose in its time, in its embryonic state, and its lousy announcement of the Duke of Kent in plastic stick up letters.
Now WHO is out of touch with reality?
Now you might want to construe this as a monstrous attempt to say that I am defending Jacob, Mannasah, Ephraim and whatsnot disproved theory of BI. Again if so, you would impart motive in my writing that I never attempted to put there.
I just recognize that Armstrongism exposed a layer of US foreign policy way before its time that only now seems to surface. So no no Beast Powers for me. Just the factual recognition that Armstrongism drew attention to post WWII foreign policy aims to establish peace in Europe and at the very moment when this construct would unite fully and become too powerful, pull the plug. (somewhat)
Yes the Odeon looks crappy in hindsight with its plastic letters. But as any Britton might be aware of, it powerfully managed the flow of information to the British for a long time (Odeon theatre being the internet of the day) and in this particular case served as some embryonic “Davos” with a mix of entertainment and diplomacy;
And I am not speaking of the hundreds of wcg sponsored diplomatic dinners where wary and suspicious post WWII diplomats got a chance to freely embrace the unfolding Pax America under threat of the Nuclear weapon which HWA preached to the elites would for certain be used if necessary to establish peace on earth. Or lets say equilibrium, for the educated.
For one time I wish we could have some intelligent talk here.
For instance.
Both AICF sponsored "Paper Tiger", and "Paper Moon" are about deeply flawed individuals pulling up a front to masquerade said flaws.
I remember very well "The Sting" to be played at Feast sites in the seventies.
Again a movie about a deeply flawed con men.
Of course one could argue that The Sting was important to the church because of its Pasadena origins or Bricket Wood owner being the founders of the British movie industry.
Or one could make a point that Pasadena sactioned art like Paper Moon or The King and I was about White Anglo Saxons being tutors to the cruel races.
nick...I sent in faithfully my tithe money for one specific purpose, to be used in spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ so those God was calling would hear the truth, believe and repent. It doesn't matter how much so called good my tithe money did, I was lead to believe (lied to) that it was to be used in the preaching and teaching of the good news. Then I found out slowly where my tithes were really going, in the pockets of those who lied to me. It was going on jet planes, Steuben glass, fancy expensive cars, gold salt and pepper shakers, highly expensive art, expensive homes with so many bedrooms they would never be used, and more than one home at a time, personal cooks, housekeepers, flying all over the world to speak with kings and queens and others and then saying it was spreading the gospel but never mentioning the name of Jesus, just Phony words like "a strong hand from somewhere".
Tithe money spent on prostitutes, fishing trips and other personal vacations, gold cuff links, top of the line expensive suits, gardeners to keep their expensive homes manicured, and on and on I could go, not to mention how third tithe was used, another lie, all the while I was receiving letters saying how desperate and in need the church was for more money and there was crisis after crisis and the "work" was always in desperate need, so much so that people were conned into making personal loans from the bank, that should have been a red flag for sure. Once I looked up and put all the letters together from HWA from all the way back right up until he died and read them as they showed how he used anyone and anything to get money from us, always saying how desperate the church was and always in need of more money or else. He even used his dying wife and his dying son in letters and twisted things around to say how desperate things were. Anyone can check this out if they want, it may take a bit of time that's all, but that's when my eyes were really opened on how much of a con man HWA really was. Many of us lived from check to check as we paid our tithes, 1st, 2nd and 3rd tithes, offerings, building fund money, special offerings, holy day offerings, excess 2nd tithe, tithe of a tithe, no wonder we couldn't save a nickel, all the while the church leaders lived high on the hog. Anyway nck, any good that came out of it all is not the point, tithe monies were for a specific purpose, to preach and teach the gospel of Jesus Christ as God was calling them.
Anon 511 wrote: Defending a crook like HWA is pathetic
I get nck's point. Just as bad things happen to good people, some actions of "bad" people, regardless of the intent, can be beneficial. Al Capone was charitable and ran soup kitchens, but that doesn't defend his actions, including how he obtained the money.
With HWA, I again draw on one of his stories, which ended with: God gave it, but the Devil delivered it.
It's ok 2:40 if you would like to be Manichean about the whole affair. And some of your points are valid. (2nd tithe I hope you spent well, (it is far less than what I spend on my secular holidays, 3rd tithe in non European countries would be an inconsequential amount of money to support others. 1st tithe I agree a little too much of a good thing. Only good if you are Rockefeller or Carnegie who both tithed a first tithe I believe. And for special offerings. You were at liberty to donate according to your best of ability, being one dollar bill or 1000 dollars. I have seen both.
I'm closer to Hoss's 5:48 take on it in the final assessement.
It is my guess you have deliberately constructed a wholly negative view of things. If it really took you 30 years to realize that the corporate jet was not free and the rest of the published going on's then you truly deserve to be conned out of your money. It was all published, even the hotels where HWA stayed were published, being the Dorchester et all. Frankly I don't believe you if you state that it took you 30 years to figure that out by assembling the co worker letters.
On another note his personal income was moderate as compared to the corporate world, lower than Stan Raders income even (except for the other perks), Steuben glass is a good old american present to world leaders (initiated by Eisenhower) (I mean we are talking world leaders, not your local dentist for dinner.
Hoss wrote, Anon 511 wrote: Defending a crook like HWA is pathetic I get nck's point. Just as bad things happen to good people, some actions of "bad" people, regardless of the intent, can be beneficial. Al Capone was charitable and ran soup kitchens, but that doesn't defend his actions, including how he obtained the money.
Yes, same with Jim Jones' California cult. The Peoples Temple also ran soup kitchens and fed the poor. Before they moved to Jonestown, Guyana, they were involved in many good works (But apparently something went wrong with mass murder and mass-suicides, later.)
Herbert Armstrong, Al Capone and Jim Jones are only the tip of the iceberg. And, lots more crazies have been totally wacko while "feeding the hungry"- a fact which myriad examples of many modern-day slimebag megachurch leaders clearly testifies to the truth thereof.
Hello, Tithe money did spread the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, I was a little kid age 8. I was cutting pictures from colored prints of Plain Truth Magazines for the fun of it. So don't worry, it did spread the gospel. I live in the Farther East, East of Timbuktu.
Yes, Euan Lloyd had difficulty in the financing of movies. Movie financing is a different breed in banking. Stanley Rader's son (who was never involved in wcg I suppose is still somewhat involved in investment in the entertainment industry. And Kuhn is a huge shareholder in Chinese sports(entertainment) channels. Paper Tiger was not a financial succes although Lloyd thought it one of his most enjoyable.
What strikes me is the emphasis on movies about "con men" . paper tiger, paper moon, the sting as fot activity, (hell we even had the whole congregation enjoy "animal farm" for the feast, etc and also the themes of education of the other races by the (former) colonisers, "songs from the king and I" as fot entertainment, paper tiger etc... I guess the culture of the day.
Or perhaps Stanley Raders way of telling HWA, "I got you by the balls my friend." Or perhaps HWA seeing the overruling themes of education and redemption in all sponsored culture. Just take whatever you like.
20 comments:
Herbert was the chief narcissist of the Church of God. He needed to be seen and adored. To have his picture taken with all of these celebrities and leaders puffed up his ego and vanity. None of them ever thought about the guy again after they received their money. All his money did (actually our tithe money) was buy his way into photo ops so he could publish them in the church rags. Then the gullible church members would be sooooooooo impressed they would send in more money.
Yes. One of the impressed ones is nck, who believes that Herb's international con job had a lasting beneficial secular effect.
Hello 9:57
As most of the information on the "anti" blogs is misrepresented, I was misrepresented also.
My entire point always was and has been the following.
Tithe money paid for a nice movie that lasted.
Tithe money paid for the red cross.
Tithe money paid for World Wildlife Fund in its inception phase.
Tithe money paid for medicine research.
Tithe money paid for China - US relations.
China - British relations (Oxford Chair)
Mediation services in California now implemented in the entire USA
The 9th circuit court.
And zillions of other causes.
So yes the WCG 's (well your) money is up to this date still having a lasting influence for the good. And you are well aware that I could go on and on and on,using the international awards by emperors and kings as a tool to find where our money went. And I am satisfied with the leverage, that's all.
nck
HWA was the Bernie Madoff of that era.
9:57
I'm not impressed! I meet these people now and then.
It's just that I am at peace with where some of the money went.
And yes the digs in Syria did not seem to have the lasting beneficial effect. Since the US changed its paradigm lately and let the Russians take over. A Vietnam those were the days when we sponsored the American King of Thailand.
nck
This is hilarious and I don't mean the lousy film. Never expected hwa to have been in Leicester Square cinema. It's still there and now an odeon cinema. Still looks the same.
nck shows us all once again how completely out of touch with reality he is. Defending a crook like HWA is pathetic. Armstrongism has had ZERO effect upon civilization. Other than a few bonze plaques in some locations, no one knows who the pervert was.
Much better than the press HWA got for The Wild Geese.
Hello 5:11
Perhaps you notice that I do not mention the name of HWA. But I grant you the construe of an accusation of a defense of Armstrongism. I am only talking about the money and the causes.
You say I am out of touch with reality.
And you dare say that in the same week that the president (elect) of the united states of america calls the EU a German construct for its own aims. You dare say that on the same day that the unfathomable (at the time) Brexit is announced by PM May. You dare say that on the very date that the elites gather in Davos while the Odeon theatre served exactly that purpose in its time, in its embryonic state, and its lousy announcement of the Duke of Kent in plastic stick up letters.
Now WHO is out of touch with reality?
Now you might want to construe this as a monstrous attempt to say that I am defending Jacob, Mannasah, Ephraim and whatsnot disproved theory of BI.
Again if so, you would impart motive in my writing that I never attempted to put there.
I just recognize that Armstrongism exposed a layer of US foreign policy way before its time that only now seems to surface. So no no Beast Powers for me. Just the factual recognition that Armstrongism drew attention to post WWII foreign policy aims to establish peace in Europe and at the very moment when this construct would unite fully and become too powerful, pull the plug. (somewhat)
Yes the Odeon looks crappy in hindsight with its plastic letters. But as any Britton might be aware of, it powerfully managed the flow of information to the British for a long time (Odeon theatre being the internet of the day) and in this particular case served as some embryonic “Davos” with a mix of entertainment and diplomacy;
And I am not speaking of the hundreds of wcg sponsored diplomatic dinners where wary and suspicious post WWII diplomats got a chance to freely embrace the unfolding Pax America under threat of the Nuclear weapon which HWA preached to the elites would for certain be used if necessary to establish peace on earth. Or lets say equilibrium, for the educated.
nck
So, and now back to topic.
Do y'all keep mixing up Paper Tiger with Paper Moon too?
I do.
Was this the venue for the raising of money for this special genetic disease or was that on a later date. Great find these moving images.
nck
For one time I wish we could have some intelligent talk here.
For instance.
Both AICF sponsored "Paper Tiger", and "Paper Moon" are about deeply flawed individuals pulling up a front to masquerade said flaws.
I remember very well "The Sting" to be played at Feast sites in the seventies.
Again a movie about a deeply flawed con men.
Of course one could argue that The Sting was important to the church because of its Pasadena origins or Bricket Wood owner being the founders of the British movie industry.
Or one could make a point that Pasadena sactioned art like Paper Moon or The King and I was about White Anglo Saxons being tutors to the cruel races.
I don't know. Just be intelligent.
nck
nick...I sent in faithfully my tithe money for one specific purpose, to be used in spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ so those God was calling would hear the truth, believe and repent. It doesn't matter how much so called good my tithe money did, I was lead to believe (lied to) that it was to be used in the preaching and teaching of the good news. Then I found out slowly where my tithes were really going, in the pockets of those who lied to me. It was going on jet planes, Steuben glass, fancy expensive cars, gold salt and pepper shakers, highly expensive art, expensive homes with so many bedrooms they would never be used, and more than one home at a time, personal cooks, housekeepers, flying all over the world to speak with kings and queens and others and then saying it was spreading the gospel but never mentioning the name of Jesus, just Phony words like "a strong hand from somewhere".
Tithe money spent on prostitutes, fishing trips and other personal vacations, gold cuff links, top of the line expensive suits, gardeners to keep their expensive homes manicured, and on and on I could go, not to mention how third tithe was used, another lie, all the while I was receiving letters saying how desperate and in need the church was for more money and there was crisis after crisis and the "work"
was always in desperate need, so much so that people were conned into making personal loans from the bank, that should have been a
red flag for sure. Once I looked up and put all the letters together from HWA from all the way back right up until he died and read them as they showed how he used anyone and anything to get money from us, always saying how desperate the church was and always in need of more money or else. He even used his dying wife and his dying son in letters and twisted things around to say how desperate things were. Anyone can check this out if they want, it may take a bit of time that's all, but that's when my eyes were really opened on how much of a con man HWA really was. Many of us lived from check to check as we paid our tithes, 1st, 2nd and 3rd tithes, offerings, building fund money, special offerings, holy day offerings, excess 2nd tithe, tithe of a tithe, no wonder we couldn't save a nickel, all the while the church leaders lived high on the hog. Anyway nck, any good that came out of it all is not the point, tithe monies were for a specific purpose, to preach and teach the gospel of Jesus Christ as God was calling them.
Anon 511 wrote: Defending a crook like HWA is pathetic
I get nck's point. Just as bad things happen to good people, some actions of "bad" people, regardless of the intent, can be beneficial. Al Capone was charitable and ran soup kitchens, but that doesn't defend his actions, including how he obtained the money.
With HWA, I again draw on one of his stories, which ended with: God gave it, but the Devil delivered it.
It's ok 2:40 if you would like to be Manichean about the whole affair.
And some of your points are valid. (2nd tithe I hope you spent well, (it is far less than what I spend on my secular holidays, 3rd tithe in non European countries would be an inconsequential amount of money to support others. 1st tithe I agree a little too much of a good thing. Only good if you are Rockefeller or Carnegie who both tithed a first tithe I believe. And for special offerings. You were at liberty to donate according to your best of ability, being one dollar bill or 1000 dollars. I have seen both.
I'm closer to Hoss's 5:48 take on it in the final assessement.
It is my guess you have deliberately constructed a wholly negative view of things. If it really took you 30 years to realize that the corporate jet was not free and the rest of the published going on's then you truly deserve to be conned out of your money. It was all published, even the hotels where HWA stayed were published, being the Dorchester et all. Frankly I don't believe you if you state that it took you 30 years to figure that out by assembling the co worker letters.
On another note his personal income was moderate as compared to the corporate world, lower than Stan Raders income even (except for the other perks), Steuben glass is a good old american present to world leaders (initiated by Eisenhower) (I mean we are talking world leaders, not your local dentist for dinner.
nck
Hoss wrote,
Anon 511 wrote: Defending a crook like HWA is pathetic
I get nck's point. Just as bad things happen to good people, some actions of "bad" people, regardless of the intent, can be beneficial. Al Capone was charitable and ran soup kitchens, but that doesn't defend his actions, including how he obtained the money.
Yes, same with Jim Jones' California cult. The Peoples Temple also ran soup kitchens and fed the poor. Before they moved to Jonestown, Guyana, they were involved in many good works (But apparently something went wrong with mass murder and mass-suicides, later.)
Herbert Armstrong, Al Capone and Jim Jones are only the tip of the iceberg. And, lots more crazies have been totally wacko while "feeding the hungry"- a fact which myriad examples of many modern-day slimebag megachurch leaders clearly testifies to the truth thereof.
Hitler built great highways. By the same logic that some are using, then Hitler was a good and beneficial guy.
The photography looks cheap for the Paper Tiger movie. But that was the norm until Spielberg raised the standard.
Hello, Tithe money did spread the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, I was a little kid age 8. I was cutting pictures from colored prints of Plain Truth Magazines for the fun of it. So don't worry, it did spread the gospel. I live in the Farther East, East of Timbuktu.
Paper tiger movie is clearly a b movie let's not fool ourselves. Not an A movie. How much does David Niven talk about this in his books ?
10:57
Yes, Euan Lloyd had difficulty in the financing of movies. Movie financing is a different breed in banking. Stanley Rader's son (who was never involved in wcg I suppose is still somewhat involved in investment in the entertainment industry. And Kuhn is a huge shareholder in Chinese sports(entertainment) channels. Paper Tiger was not a financial succes although Lloyd thought it one of his most enjoyable.
What strikes me is the emphasis on movies about "con men" . paper tiger, paper moon, the sting as fot activity, (hell we even had the whole congregation enjoy "animal farm" for the feast, etc and also the themes of education of the other races by the (former) colonisers, "songs from the king and I" as fot entertainment, paper tiger etc... I guess the culture of the day.
Or perhaps Stanley Raders way of telling HWA, "I got you by the balls my friend."
Or perhaps HWA seeing the overruling themes of education and redemption in all sponsored culture. Just take whatever you like.
nck
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