Offical LCG Statment
It is with great sadness that we announce the death of Dr. Roderick C. Meredith, Presiding Evangelist of the Living Church of God. He had been suffering from cancer and died peacefully late Thursday night, May 18, 2017. He would have been 87 years old in June and took his 67th Passover this year. He is survived by his 6 children, 10 grandchildren and 4 great-grandchildren.
Dr. Meredith was one of the first evangelists ordained by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong in 1952 and spent 64 years in the Work that Christ began through Mr. Armstrong. He was active in the Work until recent months. The Living Church of God, which Dr. Meredith raised up, has more than 350 congregations in 55 countries worldwide. He is succeeded as Presiding Evangelist by Mr. Gerald E. Weston.
Even after the partial paralysis of a stroke in 2008, Dr. Meredith pushed himself to continue to preach the gospel of the Kingdom of God to the world and to shepherd the flock. His greatest wish was for the Work in which he labored for so long to go forward in unity and power under Jesus Christ. We look forward to seeing him again in the resurrection at Christ’s return.
The funeral is scheduled for Sunday, May 28 with Mr. Richard F. Ames presiding. An additional announcement will be made with details.
The family requests that donations be made to the Living Church of God in lieu of sending flowers.
Prayers are requested for God’s comfort and peace for his beloved family.
162 comments:
Eternal rest grant unto him, Oh Lord, and may perpetual light shine upon him. May his soul, and the souls of the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace.
Get ready for "The last thing RCM told us was...'I want all of you young men to just continue to do the work'"
That being said, I believe, and I could be naive and wrong, RCM was both sincere all his life and a victim of his personality and overly unrealistic as well as ill informed theological education, which is what all COG ministers suffer from and through. End of an era. Beginning of more drama and jockeying for ministers, members and position in a very ever shrinking small pond.
RCM told many lies over the decades. Dibar Apartian famously said before his own death that "Rod hasn't changed in the 40 years I have known him." To the end, Rod insisted that anything he did was of God, because "God would remove me if He didn't approve of my actions." Christians are known for their growth and for their fruit. By the testimony of many who knew him, Rod's fruit was as rotten in 2017 as it was in 1957.
Now that God has removed Rod, will Gerald Weston reach out and apologize to Charles Bryce, and to the Scarboroughs, and to the countless other people about whom Rod told lies to cover up for the sins of his own family members?
Now get ready for the accolades to pour in that he was the greatest and most loving man the church ever had. Even though they know it not to be true, they will still heap their praises on him.
How long will it be before the Meredith children, no longer the spoiled and favored princes of LCG, go rogue after not getting what they want from Gerald Weston?
Another one bites the dust!
Don't quite know how to react. I'm not "gloating" that he's dead...but just sad that RCM didn't seem to learn anything all his life. Nothing on how to have Godly treatment of people...endless slandering of people he didn't like (Scarboroughs.) All the way around, it is one giant tragedy...and the tragedy only continues.
The Living Church of God, which Dr. Meredith raised up, has more than 350 congregations in 55 countries worldwide.
Nice how they admit it was not God, but rather was Rod, who raised up LCG. If you want to be in the Church of God, you go where God has raised up the Church. If you want the Church of Rod, by LCG's own admission, that's LCG!
Interesting how most people here on this blog who never even met the man or spent ANY significant time with him just "know" that their thoughts on him "must" be true, so they feel the "need" to decide to spread hearsay or outright falsehoods about him and third-, fourth-, umpteenth-hand rumors about his integrity and character. What a sad spectacle to witness.
I think you would find that MOST here have had many experiences with Meredith over the years and know him very well. Many here have spent time with him and know exactly what he was like.
To Anon 9:54 AM... you need to remember that some people on this blog sat in RCM's classes at AC. Others were under him as ministers when he was WCG's director of church administration. Others here sat in his Charlotte congregation. At least one is still on the LCG payroll.
Rod hurt a lot of people during his lifetime. If those hurt people follow Christ's example they will show mercy and not strike out at the dead man. If, however, they follow Rod's own example, they are likely to attack him in much the same way Rod attacked his enemies throughout his life.
Rod's most staunch defenders are either the faithful innocents who were never close to him, or the close sycophants whose favor Rod curried. The problem with that is that when the innocents came close to him they became disillusioned, and when Rod grew tired of the sycophants (or their money ran out) Rod showed them his true nature and they became disillusioned. Ask Charles Bryce. Ask the Scarboroughs. Rod was a people-user. Soon we will see whether Weston has become another Rod, or whether he will have the Christian charity to reach out and apologize for Rod's conduct.
Another asshole bites the dust! If the Lake of Fire existed, that's where he'd end up!š„
Anon 10:08 AM...So what you are saying is that he was a scumbag people-user regardless if you knew him or not? That doesn't sound like this man called Roderick C. Meredith. I know plenty of people who know him very well, who were not in his family or under his employ or in the LCG, and they dearly loved him for his genuine and sincere kindness, generosity, warm and compassion for everyone - regardless of who they were. Maybe he was a little rough back in the day. He even admitted he had to repent of many things. But over the last 20 years, the man you all are describing here is not the man most people today knew. Sorry (not really) to burst your bubble.
The death of Rod Meredith feels like the end of an era to me. Like Dennis, I found Rod Meredith to be sincere and earnest, sometimes painfully so, but often lacking in compassion. Will be interesting to see what happens with LCG over the next couple of years.
Who is now the senior surviving minister in all of cogdom? Senior in the sense of having been ordained earliest. Some of the former leading lights who still survive are Wayne Cole, David Antion and Les McCullough.
The embers of HWA's empire are flickering out.
Anon 10:21 AM wrote:
I know plenty of people who know him very well, who were not in his family or under his employ or in the LCG, and they dearly loved him for his genuine and sincere kindness, generosity, warm and compassion for everyone - regardless of who they were.
Please name five people (five is a long way from "plenty") who were not in the LCG who loved Rod Meredith for his "genuine and sincere kindness, generosity, warm and compassion for everyone." Thank you in advance!
You forgot the part about being a cult leader making money off people
I am surprised at how some seem to worry about how Bryce was treated. I predicted that he would not last one year when Meredith brought him to HQ, (I was wrong proving that I am not a prophet), but I think he lasted about a year and a half. His first sermon in Atlanta mentioned how when he told his previous WCG congregation ---- Savannah, Augusta or wherever ----- they applauded! NONE came with him, but it sounded like they were glad to see him go. I seem to remember reading that when he left LCG he commented about how they were not teaching "closely enough to Herbert Armstrong"s teachings". Bryce told us in that first message that when *he* interviewed RCM he asked him one question: "Do you believe what is written in Mystery of the Ages"? Meredith told him that he believed every word of it, and CB said that was good enough for him, so he jumped to the Global ship! I don't believe that story either, as he told it as well as other things that weren't true. Always figured that when he had a office at hq and actually was expected to do some work, he wouldn't last long.
I was a member of LCG for almost three years. I thought I was following scripture to the best of my ability, enjoyed Sabbath services, and the fellowship, but unfortunately due to personality, mannerisms and other petty reasons, I was ask to not attend Sabbath services the last week of February, 2017, while my mom was dying in the hospital, and she died march 12, 2017.
Other humans play in sync with each of us as individuals, or at counter-purpose to us. There can even be various mixtures of this. Our determination of them as net good, or net bad largely depends on our personal experiences with them, which facet of their personality was shown to us. It is natural that there would be a wide variety of opinions on RCM, based on whether the interactions were pleasant or unpleasant.
As a preteen, I was fascinated by Rod's wild histrionics during his sermons at the Feast of Tabernacles. Later, as one who did sit in his classroom every day, I was also amused by the coarse and graphic nature in which he made his points, over, and over, and over again. But, you couldn't focus on the sheer lunacy of that alone, because here also was an individual with tremendous authority who had to be feared. I found this juxtaposition to be very off-putting, and disconcerting.
Leaders are a funny topic. And it becomes even more complicated in Armstrongism because members are commanded to love and respect their leaders as if the leaders were Jesus Christ. The real tell is, if you took away all authority and pretense, so that you were on equal footing with them, would they still be lovable and worthy of respect on their own merits? Each of us as individuals must parse our experiences with these authority figures and make that determination for ourselves.
Net for me is that I remember some amusing moments with Rod. I just learned very early on that you couldn't take it all too seriously. He has not been a lingering influence throughout my life.
BB
@ Glenn 11:31 AM, I'm thinking it's probably Don Billingsley; he's been around a pretty long time.
I have mixed emotions. I have to drive right now, so I'll save that double Dewars shot for this evening to celebrate the passing of an era. I did the same when HWA left this world. I never could stand Rod's extremist right wing attitude of elitism. Couldn't stand his long winded Nave's Topical Bible sermons that made my behind ache from those hard chairs, and his hateful attitude toward anyone who didn't bow in submission to Pharisaical dictates appalled me. But, I was once just about as deceived and blinded and couldn't see my own ignorance and what really amounted to hypocrisy. So, I'll rejoice that he's finally gone, but that's all it is. He's gone. He isn't anywhere except in a funeral home as a totally unconscious corpse. He isn't going to be any "kingdom" either. That's all a fictional fantasy.
Allen C. Dexter
Gerald Flurry in one of his publications accused Rod of being cruel to those under him. I doubt Gerald would have published this unless he knew he could prove it in a court room. The body of evidence is that Rod was morally challenged.
Still, my condolences to his family.
The Painful Truth put up a fitting tribute to the man.
Meredith dead.
I will raise my hand as one of 5 who liked Mr. Meredith. I am sure there are many more.
I was a member of the Global Church of God when it first began. I reside in NJ and we were a tiny congregation back then with Global. A close knit loving group many of whom have passed on now.
Mr. Meredith came to NJ to visit back then and had a genuine concern for how we all were feeling after what happened in WWCG.
He took the time to talk to us individually and was gentle and real.
I understand that might not be everyone's experience, especially for guys who experienced him in college.
He told us he was tough on his students and told us he regretted it many times.
At one of the first feasts with Global he said he suspected that women would place higher in God's estimation in the Kingdom because they had it so much harder in this world. He said "we men" gave women a rough time of it in this world much tougher than ever deserved!
He spoke of his tough personality and said he struggled with it. Some had known him in Ambassador and called him out on it.
He was kind and gentle to me as a person and I was impressed by his actions.
So the Roderick Meredith I knew was nothing like the stories many tell.
I don't doubt those stories as Mr. M said they were true himself but, just saying I saw another side to him.
I hope he rests in peace and that his family are comforted.
By the way your captcha is awful and takes a lot of time to complete.
Ray, just curious. Were you accused of causing division? Petty reasons? You said you enjoyed services. Was the minister and congregation judgmental?
I've been with COG for over 46 years. I went to different church location and had a guy question me like I was some kind of spy or threat. Nothing Christ like in his attitude. Way to cultish for my blood.
In a real Christian environment would be less judging, more accepting for humans being different and recognizing that nobody has all the "truth".
I have no problem telling my minister when I don't agree with him. We are all still seeking the "truth" and how to best please our Creator.
I was asked to leave by the minister who had a difference of opinion on the cause of the civil war, and other petty stuff. I went to church that day looking for a little solace cause my mom was dying in hospital, but was ask to leave instead, wow, what compassion, and I had done nothing. I won't ever go back to LCG or give offerings or pay tithes there ever again. In guess, Ill just stay at home. I wish I could upload the letter I received from the minister in here, but I don't see that I can.
Well, he told me when I went to church that day that he sent me a letter of suspension, lol and that I should get it in a few days. Well, I got it three days later and he said that if I wanted to repent and get counseling, then I can be reinstated, but when I ask him what I done, he could not tell me. But during last years FOT, he messaged me on Facebook said that he did not agree with my opinion on what caused the civil war, and that I shouldn't click on something about the civil war cause it might offend some brethren. But I didn't click on anything that (he thought would be racist), cause I'm not a racist person. So what I did was, I asked him to tell who it was I (supposedly),offended and I will apologize to him/her, but no one came forward.
He and I met at shoneys 6 weeks later, and I went there to be reconciled, but he came in an accusatory mode, saying that I was not "Approachable", and I was like JOb, "Had a self righteous attitude", lollll All I did was try and serve the brethren, leading music, leading congregational prayer, etc. I was a member of UCG for 19 years before I went there. Anyway, the meeting ended abruptly after I saw that he had an accusatory attitude, pointing fingers at me, there was no reasoning, non what so ever. I told him I will leave my gift at the alter and make things right, but there was no one that I offended.
Ray W Smith said...
... I wish I could upload the letter I received from the minister in here, but I don't see that I can.
___________________
Send it to the Painful Truth. I'll publish it.
I even posted on a facebook an apology if I offended anyone, but no one came forward so I did not offend anyone, I did not put a stumbling block in front of anyone, I would never do that. I filed suit several years ago against an entity, and he said he saw that on internet and he questioned me about that and I told him, well citizens have the right to defend their integrity and defend against rumors, defamation, slander, etc. I am a retired para-legal, had my own business for many years until hurricane Katrina destroyed it. When we met he said he didn't want to talk about our differences of opinion on the civil war, then it was something else, lol. He was more accusatory, pointing fingers than wanting to reconcile so the meeting was abruptly over. I didn't see any compassion, empathy, sympathy, reasoning, understanding, etc. All I saw was animosity, anger, stubbornness, and no reasoning, so sad. I thought ministers are suppose to be listeners, not judge a book by it's cover. I thought forgiveness was in order and reconciliation, but it wasn't.
Anon 946 wrote: Interesting how most people here on this blog who never even met the man
Quite true, we "only know what we read in the newspaper".
I remember standing in a short line to shake hands with him at a FOT. I couldn't let go of his hand, and that probably made him very nervous...
"The family requests that donations be made to the Living Church of God in lieu of sending flowers". At least they're being honest about the LCG's real raison d'ĆŖtre.
Ray, that's nuts! If this is true, then it's a reflection of RCM. The Armstrong legacy is one where "we" are special because we keep the Sabbath and Holy Days, but like the Pharisees, lack love, mercy and judgment.
Christ didn't come to reveal the "truth" of the Sabbath. The Sabbath was a given, but made harsh by hard ass ministers like RCM.
There are many reasons and messages that came with Christ. The biggest missed by many COGs, was to be Christ like. His example of mercy and love for the rejects and poor of society was too Protestant for HWA. Too weak a message to proclaim. But it will only be by the spread of the Christ like attitude, will peace and prosperity come to planet Earth.
Ray W Smith
Perhaps you were kicked out of the church because you are independent minded and assertive. The church only wants Borg drone Christians.
Senior Lady from NJ, thanks for your comment about Meredith's personality. As a student of his for two semesters, I did not see the soft side you did. In fact, I am surprised that he had one. It is good to know that he did, since (like Dennis) I feel sure he was a sincere man, not a charlatan like HWA. Other people I have disliked have turned out to have good qualities, so your post will remind me to keep hoping that not everyone who acts like a son of a bitch in some circumstances is nasty all the time.
Your comment has set me to thinking about the D he gave me in the second semester of the Bible class he taught. I deserved an F because I had given up studying for the tests and declined to turn in the major out-of-class assignment, which was due on the final day of class. I had kept on attending class to keep from attracting attention, but all I did was sit there thinking my own thoughts.
Up till now I have always rejected the possibility that it was the goodness of his heart that motivated him to give me a passing grade, because I doubted there was any goodness in there. Now I have to open my mind to the possibility that he actually was acting out of kindness.
He "Kicked The Bucket"!!! Get Over It People!!!
How do I send the letter it to the pain truth? All I have said is true and there is more to it than what I have said. I am a victim of slander and defamation, cause after all that happened most recently, I contacted another COG minister about attending there and I have a letter he sent, that basically says the same thing. I wrote him a certified letter and ask him to send me specifics but I never have received a response, lol. What is wrong with those so-called churches of God? The ministers seem to be arrogant, they seem to accuse without telling you what?, where, When?
I am waiting for "David C Pack dead".
'He "Kicked The Bucket"!!! Get Over It People!!!'
'Getting over it' is a process. Don't be a social barbarian.
Ray, you can send me the letter and I can post it. Scan it or take a photo with your phone. no2hwa@yahoo.com
Retired Prof,
I don't know of anyone, even Meredith's harshest critics, who accuse him of being cruel to people simply for the enjoyment of being cruel. WCG ministers didn't like Meredith's tight control over them, so they sometimes took his harshness as cruelty, but let's also remember that there were ministers who thought it was their privilege to give a Sabbath sermon and then basically sit on their butts for the rest of the week. They didn't like Meredith pressing them to do ALL of their pastoral duty.
No, Meredith did not practice cruelty for cruelty's sake. What he did was USE PEOPLE. Giving you the "F" you deserved would have made you less useful to WCG. Giving you a "D" gave you more of a chance to make yourself useful. The "D" was a compliment in that it meant he thought you might still be useful. Once you're no longer useful, however, he would cut you off, just as he cut off Bryce and the Scarboroughs. He wasn't cruel to them, he just ghosted them like they were crazy ex-boyfriends.
Gerald Flurry has a reputation for enjoying cruel behavior, so it's ironic that PCG accuses Meredith of cruelty. Meredith in practice could be arrogant and political and even harsh at times, but not cruel.
Happy Sabbath!! Finally! I will enjoy an extra beer tonight.
Back in the '60s at SEP in Texas, I first learned of the continuing animosity that existed over the civil war. It was the first time in my life that I had been hit with a regional stigma, and called a Yankee. Unexpected in "God's" Church's summer camp. But the southern campers with whom I was rubbing shoulders had over a century of grief handed to them by people from my neck of the woods, and wanted to make sure that we knew that they had some valid points supporting their side, and they made it plain that if there is ever another Civil War, the South is going to win!
How a minister who is supposed to be a neutral ambassador from the Kingdom of God could decide which side was right (it took the bloodiest war in our nation's history, as we recall, to suppress one of the sides) and to use someone's counter experiences or cherished beliefs to disfellowship them is beyond absurd.
The problem is, ACOG ministers are supposed to cultivate and impose opinions as if they have the absolute answers to everything. As in Ambassador College, there is no such thing as intellectual freedom. They relabel this as real love, real compassion.
BB
I suspect that for about the next year or so, the word will be "We have never had so much unity in the LCG". Somewhere around next Passover, that will likely change.
The reality behind the scenes will be a deepening of camps, and lobbying amongst the ministry.
RCM's death will likely change the balance of power across the COG spectrum, especially if the LCG has ministerial slinters that will align themselves with other COG groups.
Whatever else you may say about Meredith, he cared about reaching people with his message. Weston has done much to turn LCG inward, like UCG and COGWA. Notice how since Weston arrived at LCG HQ, LCG's telecast has gone off WGN and many other TV stations, and the magazine's circulation has been cut nearly in half. LCG doesn't publicize those numbers, but if you look at the TV Log and the circulation numbers in the magazines you can put this together for yourself. LCG's income is dropping and Weston prefers to cut back on proclaiming the Gospel instead of cutting back on administrative overhead and ministerial perks.
Ray, how long ago did you leave LCG? Who was the minister?
BB. When I was at SEP in 1971 in Orr, one of the kids in my dorm was from the south. He proudly would show everyone that he was a card-carrying member of a white supremacist group in Alabama. It wasn't the KKK, but another equally violent group.
Good riddance to Rod from this "typical Negro"!
It will be interesting to see who are the other two to die. Dave must be praying that please don't let it be me.
It was February 17, 2017
I sent copies of the letters with information via email to the painful truth so they could upload them to the website. But along with the letters, the information (story), I have submitted must be submitted along with the attachments so the whole story can be told.
I'm glad to have had those Southern campers as friends, Gary. I had imagined that standardized textbooks would have given the same message across the USA, but there were family influences at play there which countered all of that. SEP was very educational culturally, and made me aware that there are a lot of sensitivities that must be understood and accommodated if people are to get along and to work together. Why is it that the "Christians falsely so-called" always seem to be more advanced in these things than Armstrongism? By their fruits ye shall know them.
By the way, at the end of SEP '63, most of my best friends were from the South.
BB
Gerald Flurry and Vic Kubik lead the two largest splinter groups. Now Pack has to deal with Weston being in charge; Add to this equation Jim Franks of COGWA who also will be killed by Dave's god. Bob Thiel is not in the equation because he is nothing more than a pimple on Satan's ass.
A fitting musical tribute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE
The minister is Ed Breaux
Where will LCG get their updates on gay sex and masturbation now?
Will Meredith donate his assets to the church like he wanted everyone else?
Will Meredith donate his assets to the church like he wanted everyone else?
Meredith's children are church employees, so by giving his money to them he is giving it to the church. At least that's what LCG leaders will say to justify Meredith's apparently saying one thing while doing another.
Probably the most enthusiastic stalwarts in the LCG were expecting that something spiritual would happen, providing validation from Father God. And, of course it did not. It never does. So that's got to be another in a series of red flags, and majorly disappointing. Seems like there will be an automatic reset of their prophecy clock.
BB
In a twisted way, I hate to see good ol' Spanky go, but death is the great equalizer and a call for humility to everyone. Since there's not much you can do about it, might as well have a good laugh... He's dead Jim!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3at_Ev2kOoI
I felt a similar sense of loss at the death of Harold Camping.
The king is dead, let the carnage begin! How many pieces will LCG fall apart into?
Wow, that was a cheap shot for the Painful Truth to come on here and steal a person's letter so they could run with the story.
Can there be a more irritating comment that church members throw out that says, "He fought the good fight and won" "He has run the race, it is finished"
Did Meredith really win the race, did he fight the good fight, or did he receive a shock that he never expected at the moment of his death?
NOT IN HIS LIFETIME!
Oh, how often RCM would thunderously preach that very specific cataclysmic events would happen “in your lifetime”!
Many of his followers died while his prophesies were failing. The remaining inheritors of his lifetime legacy of false predictions of end-time events, with constantly moving three to seven year time-frames, are left to contemplate perspective over the breadth of his ministry. Most will overlook the facts of failure and continue to laud his presumed calling, accomplishments, and zeal. However, only the zeal was real.
LCG family members of mine who thought highly of RCM were recently bragging about his increased focus on Jesus over the past few years. However, they were unfazed when I commented that no one truly wishing to know Jesus should follow a minister who was just getting a bit cozy with Jesus at the end of sixty-plus-year ministry.
The volumes of his written works and his recorded sermons prove that he spoke very little about the New Covenant and the terms of the New Covenant, like Grace and Justification. The evidence can be methodically counted and weighed to clearly demonstrate that RCM had extremely little use for the terms of the New Covenant because he did not understand them.
RCM leaves a wide wake of hurt in the lives of numerous individuals – many of whom have passed the agony down to new generations and pushed the pain horizontally to others around them. If only the hurt could die with RCM; but no, he leaves behind an abusive institution to carry on his work of destruction.
He had a long life, but nonetheless, a tragic death. It’s very sad that he died not knowing Jesus and was devoted to spreading that affliction. I wish the best of possible outcomes for RCM and comfort and peace for his family and followers. May God have mercy on RCM and all his people – hallelujah, God is merciful!
Upon death, we become gnostic.....or not. Every religion has their own set of speculations as to what the Kingdom is going to be like. Jesus was sparse on the specifics, but that did not keep HWA/WCG + splinters from preparing a detailed overlay, with of course their ministers and members being in charge, reeducating all the other Christians, and the participants in other than Christian religions, and imposing Armstrongism as the eternal government of God! Their overlay sounds as unbelievable as a sales pitch for the Brooklyn Bridge or the Spruce Goose. Things are repeated as guiding facts for peoples' lives, and they cannot be verified.
I kind of wonder what Rod might have thought if upon his passing, David Bowie and Freddy Mercury were assigned to conduct his orientation into the Kingdom. God does have a sense of humor, and a way of shaking things up!
BB
Anonymous said...
Wow, that was a cheap shot for the Painful Truth to come on here and steal a person's letter so they could run with the story.
May 19, 2017 at 7:58 PM
----------------------------------------------------------------
Not at all.
This is not a BANNED vs. Painful Truth issue. Gary and I are on the same page.
I have the resources to document and preserve this mans story which he has decided to share with us. If Google (which hosts blogger.com) ever gives this site the ax it goes away. I have my site cut to dvd's. In a worse case scenario, the PT could appear anywhere on the web without a page lost. Can't say the same for Google hosting.
NO SHIT
How a man can know about Herbert's incest and still be a minister in that church and work closely with Herbert is beyond me. I just can't get how a sincere person can do that, yet he always seemed sincere to me. But then again so did Herbert, so what the heck do I know? Perhaps he really fell for Herbert hook line and sinker, and he just had to believe that he himself was one of God's big leaders, right next to Herb. Maybe these guys thought they could make it into the kingdom on their great sermons, writing, administrative skills, and doing the work of God, even if they had serious personal faults. Didn't Herbert say he wouldn't give a plug nickel for his chances if he weren't the apostle used to do the great work?
Meredith was not crude, just very plain spoken regarding sexual temptations faced by young people. I think people are here are distorting the picture quite a bit. Also, he railed against homosexuality because, like 98% of the people of his time, he naturally found it incomprehensibly repulsive and disgusting. Besides, he was a preacher, and homosexuality must have been a big sin because it was a death penalty in the old testament. I guess that tells you what YHWH thought of it. He was a product of his age, before political correctness and social engineering conquered the West.
"... If Google (which hosts blogger.com) ever gives this site the ax it goes away."
Which is why the usual suspects control Google, Hollywood, the media, youtube, facebook, twitter, the most influential papers (new york times and washington post), the Fed, the most influential schools (e.g. Harvard) and the list goes on and on. They are already shutting people down.
"RCM told many lies over the decades."
People can rationalize anything.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
How a man can know about Herbert's incest and still be a minister in that church and work closely with Herbert is beyond me...
_________________________________________________
Easy. Shut off your conscious. It worked for Herbie, why not Rodney? My question is for the membership. How can you embrace a sexual pervert (Herbie) as a man of God while at the same time condemning the entire world because it doesn't keep the holy days and sabbath?
And that's just for starters... How can a so called Christian cult leader disfellowship members for trivial shit while turning a blind eye to stalkers, child molester, adulterers, etc?
Maybe people go to church to hide their evil???
Byker Bob said, "Probably the most enthusiastic stalwarts in the LCG were expecting that something spiritual would happen, providing validation from Father God. And, of course it did not. It never does."
Are you sure it never does? Me, I'm blind to spiritual wavelengths and deaf to spiritual frequencies, so I could be surrounded at any time by furious spiritual activity--all the way from hosts of angels singing hosannas to mighty battles between the forces of good and evil--and never have the faintest clue it was going on. I understand some groups have claimed such spiritual fulfillment of their prophecies, which nobody outside the group was sensitive enough to notice.
Or it could be that spiritual events always occur deep in the heart, where only believers can detect them. Maybe members of the LCG follow the formula often recommended on this site: obey the Commandments and pray earnestly. That will place God under an obligation to answer. Nobody else will know such spiritual events occurred, but so what? Revealing them to unbelievers would only profane them, anyway, and spoil the special intimate quality of the experience.
There's only *one* highlight I remember i.c.w. RCM that stands out as far as I'm concerned - his booklet on the Ten Commandments I've read during 1975. Strange, what struck me in the entire *treatise* was that he said that God's name is not actually JEALOUS, but ZEALOUS. That's all I remember distinctly ...
From my POV I think he's in for some interesting surprise once he's *reassembled* in the Resurrection Halls :D
@Ray W Smith and other interested parties, I've googled "Ed Breaux Minister," and found his *resume* (PEDIGREE would be a more apt word describing how he is selling himself on Linkdline.) Man, you should thank your lucky whatevers that you're rid of the guy ... as well as the LCG. All the best in your search for theological sanity š
Roberta Honkanen.10:17...Trying to play God are you Roberta. Like many others, you have no idea where RCM stands before God. It's very easy to think we know where someone else stands when it's their turn to stand before God, maybe it's easier to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling and check out where we stand rather than someone else's where we only know half of the story.
Good Riddance To Bad Rubish!
Most people want to live a long life, one free from want and to die a good death, at home and free of pain. RCM had such a life and death. Sadly, he denied others the same with his teachings against going to doctors to relieve pain and to repair the body and urging people to give all that they could of their resources without providing for their later years.
Also I forgot to add, that Mr Breaux had ask me at the meeting we had at Shoneys quote, " If I was bipolar", I laughed and said "no, and I don't have any mental health issues". That's when I terminated the so-called "reconciliation Meeting). I'm still laughing about it all, but angry at the same time..
Mr Breaux and Dan Hall (regional pastor), told me that my fruits were negative, but did not elaborate on specifics except to say that it seem to them I had a "Job", mentality?, wow > I did tell Mr breaux that I did not "Blindly follow any religious leader", that I had a brain to think with and a Bible to read. He did not like that I guess, sooooooo I have email transcripts of emails between Dan Hall and MR Breaux and myself, one of them Mr Breaux says that "The ways of a man seem right but the end leads to death", so I guess he was telling me I deserved death cause my opinion of the cause of the civil war was different from his, lollll I can provide those emails if needed. I have never heard or seen such ridiculous drama in my life in church, loll A place where people suppose to go to comfort others and find solace, wow I have been wrong for all these years.
"Meredith was not crude"
Give me a break. He is the only preacher that could give a sermon on any topic and feel the need to talk about gay sex, masturbation, or women's big breast. There may be a time to discuss the topic, but not every sermon. The man was a pervert. I still remember the first time my wife and I met him. He talked to her breast the entire conversation.
2.29 AM
I beg to differ, we can often tell where a person stands before God. Otherwise, why did Christ say beware of the Pharisees and wolves in sheep clothing. We can know by the scientific method of 'you shall know them by their fruits.' As a public figure, there was much fruit or lack of it, over decades for people to discern Rods character.
Retired Prof
No one here accused Rod of being cruel for the simple enjoyment of being cruel. That is a straw man argument on your part. You claim Rod was only harsh. People can tell the difference between a person being harsh or being cruel, thank you. Like many former teachers, you have difficulty comprehending adulthood.
Some here claim that Rod was kind to them. I believe them. I also believe that what they experienced is the sheeps clothing, as in wolf in sheeps clothing.
PS all cruel and abusive people develop degrees of sadism (enjoy seeing people suffer). It's a characteristic of the evil mind and confirmed by my life long experiences.
By their fruits you shall know them. Let's see, Gal 5 gentleness, patience, kindness, long suffering, etc. How many of associate these fruits with HWA and RCM?
Now that's some "Good News"!
I recall being embarrassed on behalf of the ladies in our class by Rod Meredith for his crude locker room narratives in which he went way overboard, way past the bounds of polite society. Sometimes a deeper, more memorable learning experience happens through subtlety. That was not the WCG way, though. Rod was as he was because those above him in those days approved of his methodology, and found it useful to the cause.
And, yes, we know that mainstream attitudes towards homosexuality were different during that era, a time when it was often treated as a mental illness even to the extent of electroconvulsive shock therapy being used as a treatment. But, back in those days, when people occasionally asked my opinion on homosexuality, I'd just smile and reply that "Well, I've always thought that it was in very poor taste!" Believe me, I often saw bouts of uncontrollable laughter over that little quip!
Finally, for the benefit of Retired Professor, I'll amend my "something spiritual" descriptive (He's right. Humans can't perceive purely spiritual events, but that often does not prevent them from faking them) A more accurate set of words would have been "something spiritual with great physical manifestations". That's the type of validation the Armstrongites have been schooled to look for for their groups, and theoretically, Rod Meredith would have been a leading candidate for this. But, once again, no great physical manifestation. We've got a vast dossier of non-supportive evidence where Armstrongism is concerned. If God ever had been the author of the movement in its early history or heyday, it appears that He's all but abandoned it at this point in time.
BB
i agree with some of the things youve said; frankly part of his legacy is the fact that its a "shrinking pond"...
and long ago he should have been heir to wwcg, but frankly because of his hardened heart he squandered that opportunity...
nevertheless, the work will endure, the gates of hell cannot prevail against it...
For those of you naive fans of Meredith that found him kind when he visited your church area. His practice was to compile a list of the big donors and tithe payers. This will account for most of the kindness you received. Get a grip people. The world is a much better place now. It's really a shame that a "loving" God would allow a man of such degenerate stature remain so long. Weston is exactly the same man with a little more filter on his mouth. He is a very cruel and mean individual. I speak from personal experience. One can only hope for an extreme implosion from within to stop the madness.
frankly glenn, even their own teachings imply that the Church will not figure prominently just before the Return of Christ, but rather the two witnesses...
to be honest, mr. smith, if they had any concerns about the cause of the civil war other than the fact that the white south was doing to blacks what they would not want to be done to themselves, it is because they are carnal minded, tares in Gods Church what have one foot in this world...
you should not allow tares to choke your growth; just remember: they will be rooted out eventually, and those who endure the negativity of such individuals without giving up their crown will ultimately retain that crown, and will witness the uprooting demise of said tares...
do not be one of those who is offended...
Hey, folks. Time for a reality check, a survey of sorts. How many (like me) are actually more concerned over the death of Chris Cornell of Soundgarden and Audioslave?
BB
No, I never thought Rod was cruel for the simple enjoyment of being cruel. And I didn't think I implied that. Sorry if I was unclear. I thought he saw his harshness as fulfilling his duty as a minister. Notice though I used the term "son of a bitch," I did not say he was one, but implied that he acted like one. The difference is in motivation.
He always urged members to be filled with zeal. His examples all suggested he meant "single-minded, excessive enthusiasm for an ideal." From where I sat, he never seemed to put individual human beings at the forefront. They were always secondary to The Work, an impersonal goal that love and compassion could only impede. He is the main reason the word "zeal" has such a negative connotation for me.
In short: although I disliked him, my contact with him was mostly limited to sitting in his classroom, and my view of him was incomplete. Even with my skewed perspective, I never thought he was a bad man, only badly misguided. Misguided actions can still have bad consequences.
Well, that was our disagreement, His view was the war was caused by slavery, but I know that was not the true reason for the first shot fired at fort sumpter. I took American history in college and I know the war was the war for southern independence, also known as the war of northern aggression, and the war for states rights, MR Breaux (him being form the south and has a masters degree in history, should know that but he disagrees with me, so be it. I told him to read the inaugural address Abraham Lincoln did on March 4, 1861 (excerpt, New York Tribune news paper, March 4, 1861), and he would see for himself that slavery was not the cause of the war or the first shot to be fired, but he didn't want to go there, so why not go there if it warrants a suspension, then why not go there and get is straightened out? loll
I don't allow tares or anything else to change my opinion on the cause of the civil war, cause I Know the cause of it, and it doesn't really matter, that happened over 150 years ago. But, still that doesn't warrant a letter of suspension, lolllll. I told him I don't blindly follow any minister, I have a brain to think with and a bible, and I can read.
I hope Meredith was a Christian. But, the evidence from the entire body of his life's work suggests he was not. There is no record that he accepted the terms of the New Covenant and was covered by it. May God have mercy on his soul.
"How can a so called Christian cult leader disfellowship members for trivial shit while turning a blind eye to stalkers, child molester, adulterers, etc?"
It's called elitism, double standards, thinking the ministry is special in the eyes of of God. Capitalism is like that too. The richest 10% do only about 10% of the work but get 90% of the money. The other 90% have to split the remaining 10% of the money among them. If the rich got 'only' 80% there would be 20% left for the rest of us and we would all be a hell of a lot better off. But the rich think they deserve it. They think the system can't get by without them. They got us by the short and curly ones. Just like God couldn't run the church without the elites.
Well, some of those over-protected prissy AC girls thought when they got married they should have sex with their bras on. Somebody needed to get them adjusted to the real world of male sexuality, so they would be ready for marriage, and I'm grateful that Meredith had the balls to let them know the AC guys were undressing them in their heads. Girls need to know those kind of things, and the guys needed to know they had to control their lusts and urges. You don't want to marry a prude or an insensitive jerk. Both sides had to meet in the middle.
He was warned enough times to teach ALL of God's Statutes and Judgments and refused, over a period of 14 years or more. I was not the only one that tried to reach him to keep the solemn seventh years and jubilee reading the Law at the Feast of Tabernacles in the solemn seventh years, and he refused. That solemn seventh year is a Statute because it is a "sabbath", H7676.
Anom 2:48 Your a dumb ass if you really believe that. You are also not giving much credit to the intelligence of women. Also, if that was Meredith's reasoning he would have stop it by the late 80's or at least early 90's. All you have to do is view his final farewell sermon and he couldn't even say good bye without bringing sex in the topic. Nope, he's just a pervert.
"Anom 2:48 Your a dumb ass if you really believe that."
And you are a dumb ass for not knowing that. And it's "Anon" not "Anom" and "you're" not "your", Mr. Smart Guy.
"You are also not giving much credit to the intelligence of women"
And you are insulting the intelligence of women by implying they need a dumb butt like you to defend them.
"... if that was Meredith's reasoning ..."
I am telling you what he did. Unlike you I don't presume to read his mind.
"...he couldn't even say good bye without bringing sex in the topic. Nope, he's just a pervert."
You can't listen to the radio or TV for 75 minutes (the length of a sermon) without several references to sex, often off-color. And you can't have a conversation with a lot of people without hearing F-shots, dirty jokes, and people being called either "faggot" or "homophobic". Sex is on everyone's mind it seems. Perverts everywhere, by your own standard. I guess he was trying to counter all that, don't you think?
"They think the system can't get by without them. They got us by the short and curly ones. Just like God couldn't run the church without the elites."
They thought they had God by the short and curly ones. When some of them wake up in the lake of fire they will find out the real score.
Hey, folks. Time for a reality check, a survey of sorts. How many (like me) are actually more concerned over the death of Chris Cornell of Soundgarden and Audioslave?
BB
Count me in BB! I also miss Wendy O Williams of Plasmatics fame...
LCG just won't be the same without RCM.
It's like...
Frosted Flakes without Tony the Tiger
Count Chocula without the Count
Cap'n Crunch without the Captain
Coco Puffs without Toucan Sam
Winnie the Pooh without the Pooh
Anon 234 and Anon 825 referred to terms of the New Covenant
As I've mentioned before, when someone makes a reference to details of the "New Covenant" they don't seem to give a source. We have demanded COGs to cite sources, how about a reference to the "terms" so we can verify such claims?
You can find covenants with Noah, Abraham, David, the people of Israel, and others spelled out, in some cases in great detail.
There is also a prophetic reference to a New Covenant with the House of Judah and the House of Israel. Is that the "New Covenant" you refer to? If not, where?
Ronco,
It's also going to be like the baloney without the baloney.
Ronco,
It's also going to be like a baloney sandwich without the baloney.
Well, there is something about some kind of new covenant in Heb 12:18-24.
For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. For they could not bear the command, "IF EVEN A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT WILL BE STONED." read more. And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, "I AM FULL OF FEAR and trembling." But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
And then there was the passover thing? Not that I care much anymore about these kind of discussions, just thought you might want a scripture.
Chris who?
Hoss: I'll speak up for the Annoymousies. For starters, Rod rejected Jesus as Savior and instead, preached a message of be your own savior. He rejected Ephesians 2:8-9 and rejected the Gift of God. He did not believe in being saved by grace or faith. Instead, Rod was all about works.
Also, Rod perished as an enemy of the cross.
1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Someone once played me a clip of one of Rod's sermons from about seven years ago.
In the clip, Rod said something like: "We should be preaching the cross of Christ."
I know that sounds too crazy to believed, coming from Rod - but I really heard it!
However, Rod never acted on what he said.
The cross remained foolishness to him until his end, and that showed in his lack of power to do any good with his church.
Mr. Smith,
Ignore the prattlings of the cryptically named "nck". That's what we all do. We've been trying to make sense of any of his postings for months now, and it seems there is none to be made. I've sometimes wondered if he's not a professional "salter", deliberately taking perverse positions just to bait people into commenting.
Ray Smith, yes, many "members of LCG". who were once called "Brethren". A member in my view is a "member of some social or cricket club", not people who are supposed to belong to the household of God, which Gerry Weston now addresses those who attend LCG. Well it is was an indictment of RCM's leadership and the legacy he leaves, that members are only fodder, to be used, for monetary purposes, to be exploited in every way possible. If you have even the slightest different point of view, I don't believe history is a doctrinal issue for you to be put out of the church and be accused of having mental issues. A minister can abuse the hell out of you and you cannot go up the ranks to protect yourself because they do not give a to hoot about you or many others for that matter, only jobs for the boys and of course family nepotism rhort's. It was not like that during HWA, and HWA was cleared of incest charges. No! Rod has his own way of doing things and they were not Godly, he was the veritable user and used the church for his own gain. He kept to sound doctrine initially, but seem to rationaize that to bring in heretical teachings some years prior to his death may benefit his little family empire. Yes we were members of LCG and met Rod and his wife Sheryl some years back, he seemed to find it difficult to strike conversation after we picked up from the airport and paid for lunch, which seemed strange for someone who preached fire in the belly. Well Ray do not be too concerned I don't think you are missing much, think better off away from this mob.
This is what happened to me recently, loll click to go there.
https://hwarmstrong.com/ray-smith.htm
"He did not believe in being saved by grace or faith. Instead, Rod was all about works."
Seriously? People still want to pretend to believe that sinners will make it? There is reward and there is punishment. You get one other the other depending in your behavior and character. The demons have faith too, but they are still demons.
Since it is quite difficult to say anything positive about him, let it suffice to offer sincere condolences to his family at this time.
I am of the opinion that nck is mentally unstable and have posted about this several times. Ignore him.
This has been an interesting thread and as expected there are mostly people on here who are not sad about RCM's passing. I found it amusing that Ray W Smith seemed to "hijack" this thread and make it more about him than RCM. I actually know RWS from many, many years ago in UCG and he's actually a sincere man who's had a hard life. He also lives in denial (as many of us do to our sins and idiosyncrasies) because his suspension from first UCG and then LCG are not just about his disagreement of Civil War history. He's even gotten his own link sharing his story which now includes being "blackballed" from COGWA. Perhaps it's because the COGWA congregation he seeks to attend is mostly made up of the same UCG people he was suspended from meeting with before?
When RCM was in Global Church Of God he was a "stick in the mud" and had me disfellowshiped over the fact I disagreed with something he had said in a sermon. But, at least he will be in the second resurrection.
Anonymous, I agree with you, I'm just still in the shock mode I guess. I had no idea it was coming, loll. I have contacted interclaim.com to see about maybe getting some kind of class action suit started for all the abuse, brainwashing, money grabbing, by those who are responsible, for all the people who were/are being ripped off. I hope they get back in touch with me.
Anon May 20, 2017 at 8:37 PM said...
"...Hoss: I'll speak up for the Annoymousies. For starters, Rod rejected Jesus as Savior and instead, preached a message of be your own savior. He rejected Ephesians 2:8-9 and rejected the Gift of God. He did not believe in being saved by grace or faith. Instead, Rod was all about works..."
I agree with you as Rod, apparently driven by another spirit, preached another Jesus and another gospel.
Rod was all about WORKS of SELF and his man-made group. FWIIW, on 24 December 2004, I wrote Bob Thiel, at that time a supporter/(worshipper?) of Rod Meredith, about Rod's claim that his Living group was following in HWA's "footsteps far more than any other organization on earth."
Without further comment, I will just show what was sent to Bob T:
******
Good morning Bob T,
Recently on your website you quoted Rod Meredith's letter where Rod mentions how he believes he/lhis living group/formal global group are actually "following in his [[HWA's]] footsteps..." far more than any other organization on earth. Well, is that really true? Why would one want to claim such a thing? It almost makes an idol out of HWA. Well, I'll just quote the whole paragraph of Rod's letter here for context:
***************
"...So, as we approach the 19th anniversary of Mr. Armstrong's death (on January 16, 1986), we do honor his memory and the powerful work he did. As many of you fully realize, we are actually "following in his footsteps" far more than any other organization on earth! But Mr. Armstrong himself always put the emphasis on Christ and not on his own human leadership. So throughout the first twelve years of this Work, that is what we have done and continue to do. Nevertheless, I feel it appropriate at this time to remind all of you of his pioneering leadership and of the fact that we are, indeed, carrying on that Work in a significant way..."
**************
Doesn't Rod realize that Joseph Tkach Senior followed HWA's footsteps far more than any other organization on earth...or any human being for that matter! Rod doesn't even come close! And he ought to be ashamed of himself for writing what he wrote, but he probably doesn't realize what he even wrote. I'll explain further.
How do we know that?
Because when Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong [[HWA]] died on 16 January 1986 [[Rod spoke the truth there]] his footsteps stopped as HWA was "dead in his tracks!"
So, where did the "footsteps" go? Either nowhere or backwards! HWA was "dead in his tracks!" That's it!
Now, it just so happens that Joe Tkach Senior walked in those footsteps [[And Joe spoke truth there when he said he would do so; that was his, not Rod's, job to do...or as Gerald Waterhouse might say...get the point?]] backwards so perfectly the organization went back into Protestantism and paganism...or should I say Pagan Christianity?
Without Joe doing that there would be no Laodicean era today [[and living is part of it, but doesn't know it yet---that's another story]], which God had as part of His plan of salvation (Rev 3) from long before you or I were born.
To be con’t…
John
Continuing to Bob T...
Joe was "the man!" He did the job he was supposed to do. Joe will be in God's Kingdom along with all of the rest of the Laodiceans. It's just part of God's plan---not anyone's theory or some satanic plan of salvation...especially one where people are taught that salvation is not by grace, but must be earned by meeting prerequisites/requirements...by one's own works, etc., which the "living" group teaches. Living teaches one may lost their salvation and end up in some lake of fire if they commit the so-called "unpardonable sin." Well, if that were true, then it must be true that one must "do their part" so that, that "unpardonable sin" doesn't happen? Where is the grace in that? It does not exist! Let's not be hypocritical! Rod frustrates God's grace...and I'll explain that shortly.
I think that is why Brian Knowles thinks that the "living group" and others like it striving to qualify for their salvation by works, by self, by me, myself and I are really the ones needing to heed the warning to the Laodiceans.
Yes, I read your comments on what Brian wrote too.
Brian said, "...If those who claim to be "Philadelphian" are merely self-serving, self-congratulatory, self-satisfied, self-righteous, exclusivist Christians, then perhaps they need to heed the warning given to the Laodiceans?..."
And you took offense at him saying that, but he's "right on the money" with that statement there, but you can't "see it" his way....yet!
Living group does not believe God when God says that salvation is by grace! Period! The living group thinks they have a "part" in the salvational process and are all qualifying somehow. Brian thinks not!
Now, again, Joe Tkach walked in HWA's footsteps perfectly! That was his job! Rod does not! Living does not! It really appears that Rod/living jumped into HWA's footsteps and just stagnated there...kind of like being in some spiritual rut.
The org(s) either stagnate or go backwards. Remember once upon a time I asked you what new truth living learned since HWA's death. I'm paraphrasing some, but you gave me only one verse...Galatians 2:20! That was it!
God's Church grows in grace and knowledge. Living does not if that is all they can claim they have grown in!
Rod instead beats God's Law on people's heads when people, without God's Spirit, can't keep it anyway (Romans 8:7)! But, Rod does not teach grace's part in salvation. Rod keeps using the "Ten Commandments" as a "Rod!"
We know what Gal 2:20 says:
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Did Rod stagnate there in that verse?
Did Rod ever go forward, look ahead one verse, and read/expound verse 21?
"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
To be con’t…
John
I was not suspended from UCG, I removed my self from attending several years ago. I was a member there for 19 years until the new minister came along and he and I did not see eye to eye on some stuff, so I left. So I just wanted to clear that up. It wasn't on count of any sin I had committed, it was a disagreement.
Continuing to Bob T...
Rod frustrates God's grace! And almost every personal of his mentions the Commandments...and Rod doesn't even perfectly keep them himself! It's hypocritical. How do we know Rod does not perfectly keep them? And yes, it's easy to say, "Well, he's trying! He's doing the best he can! He's doing the best he can with what he has!" Well, is he?
Paul told us Rod can't do it---Romans 7:20-21.
James tells us Rod can't do it---James 4:5.
John tells us Rod can't do it---I John 3:8.
Now, God will work out any repentance/change as He sees fit. It's His plan of salvation! He will save the 144,000 Firstfruits first! The Father already saved Christ, the First of the Firstfruits. Later, He will save the rest...and then even later destroy Satan and his buddies! Done-deal! But, God must and will grant the repentance/change! It's always been His choice!
Personally, I would be ashamed to write "...we are actually "following in his footsteps" far more than any other organization on earth!..."
All right, you probably would want me to not overlook the rest of Rod's context!
Okay, personally, I would be ashamed to write "...As many of you fully realize, we are actually "following in his footsteps" far more than any other organization on earth! But Mr. Armstrong himself always put the emphasis on Christ and not on his own human leadership. So throughout the first twelve years of this Work, that is what we have done and continue to do. Nevertheless, I feel it appropriate at this time to remind all of you of his pioneering leadership and of the fact that we are, indeed, carrying on that Work in a significant way..."
Yes, I realize Rod and his org/group jumped into HWA's footsteps BUT stayed there in one spot...and hasn't budged forward at all!
And yes, I realize that Rod and his org/group is NOT "...carrying on that Work in a significant way!"
HWA did the work God gave him to do.........completed it.......and he died! No one is going to do HWA's work! No one is going to do his work! He did it! He completed it! Rod went elsewhere doing "his own thing!"
Joe Tkach Senior did the work God gave him to do.........completed it.........and he died! Rod went elsewhere doing "his own thing!"
Is Rod striving to do a "dead man's work?"
God's Church moved on! God's Church God kept on going with His plan of salvation. Rod jumped into HWA's footsteps and strived to organize a man-made organization named Global, which was not supported by God in any way, shape or fashion. Why not? It was "rooted up!"
"But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up."
Now, God's Church by God's Spirit, does "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." It does NOT "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong." Rod sounds like he he is doing the latter!
Now will living, like global, yet be rooted up also? They both looked like they had some "good beginnings" on the outward appearances!
As my friend would say, "Time will tell!" If Rod were "walking in the footsteps" of Jesus Christ, who of Himself did nothing, he would NOT write some/many/most/any of the things Rod writes, because Jesus knew what was in man (John 2:25)....and Rod, at this time, does not! But he will, God-willing,....later! But first, God will have to guide Rod to the correct "footsteps" to follow....and they do not belong to Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong! And incidentally, Rod is doing "his job" too, but he still frustrates the grace of God...and he can't help but do so at this time.
Best regards, and have a delightful Sabbath ahead!
John
******
OH and by the way, that is not my website, loll. A guy named James put that up on his website called The Painful Truth.
I didn't want to seem like I'm stealing the show, so I will comment on RCM, I did not know him so there's not anything I can really say about him, other than RIP. I never met him in person, nor talked to him on phone or anything. So, I don't know anything to say. I will Not post anything else on here but thanks for allowing me to tell my story (truth), not rumors, fabricated statements, etc.
One of the 100s of Anons on here said:
"and I'm grateful that Meredith had the balls to let them know the AC guys were undressing them in their heads. Girls need to know those kind of things, and the guys needed to know they had to control their lusts and urges. You don't want to marry a prude or an insensitive jerk. Both sides had to meet in the middle."
Well Anon, it's natural biology. RCM thought having normal sexual desires (which includes fantasizing about the opposite sex) was some sort of unnatural lust, which is a rather prudish belief if you ask me.
But your phrasing above struck me personally because, as I recall, he used the exact same words when counseling me in college. "Now Michael, you need to know how wicked you are in God's sight, he knows you've been undressing pretty girls in your mind".
Ah, to be able to go back in time now and watch the look on his face when I would then answer: "Actually no, Dr. Meredith, I'm 100% gay you see!" (Im not, but just to see the look on his face...:-) Anybody happen to have a time machine lying around?
That would have been much more fun than what I actually did (looking down at the floor in embarrassment...)
Ah, to be able to go back in time now and watch the look on his face when I would then answer: "Actually no, Dr. Meredith, I'm 100% gay you see!"
RCM surely had some issues around homosexuality. Closer to his uncle than to his father, he had his first major life crisis when his wrestling buddy Jimmy died in a tragic accident. Any LCG member who heard RCM talk about how he and Jimmy wrestled together would notice the almost homoerotic way in which he described their closeness "like two bear cubs rolling in the grass."
The author of "The Plain Truth About Queer Men" went on to hire an effeminate assistant, Denny Luker, who would later in life be noted in UCG as one of the most vocal supporters of outreach to the gays. When it was time to strike out on his own, RCM chose to surround himself with queer employees at his LCG HQ. Why would that have been? Was he blackmailing them? Using them to shore up his own doubts about his own masculinity? Living vicariously through them? This is a man who would talk very graphically in sermons about gay men needing to wear diapers because their sphincters could no longer close as a result of anal sex. How ironic that before he died he was himself wearing diapers because he had lost control of his bowels! Did he learn a lesson from that? I wonder.
I was never at AC (left the group before I was that age), so maybe I just don't realize the behavior of those who were there.. but I don't see how anyone over 14 wouldn't be aware of that. They really needed Rod to rail about dirty thoughts, masturbation and general hankypanky all the time?
mr. smith, since you are a person what studies history you should read the speech that jeff davis' vp, alexander h. stephens, gave regarding the reason the civil war would be fought...
regardless of our conjecturous, revisionist musings, the contemporaries of that era were explicit in their sinful point of view regarding blacks, and our slavement, including lincoln himself...
No. Nobody needed that as if it were something required to help us deal with life. Inexplicably, it was just Rod's primary preoccupation, something that he couldn't reign in or hold back. Various students have attempted to interpret and spin it in both favorable and unfavorable ways, but the bottom line was that it was some deep inner sickness regularly spilling out. If he'd been able to maybe restrict those comments to once per month, it might have had therapeutic or instructive value. As it is, students were doing Rod Meredith skits in the mens' dorms!
I don't know whether the ladies also got some mileage out of it in their dorms, or missed out on the fun. I don't believe that any of the coeds were so naive or prudish that they would have insisted on wearing bras during sex. They may not have been well versed in the Kama Sutra, but nobody who grew up in the '60s was sheltered in accordance with the Victorian mold.
BB
I will repost what I posted earlier, and I do know all about President Jefferson Davis, his wife Vienna, and his five kids, three sons and two daughters. I use to be a tour guide at Beauvoir in Biloxi, MS of the Jefferson Davis Mansion owned by the Sons of The Confederate Veterans. Anyway, here is what I posted earlier in here; My opinion and other petty stuff he and I discussed briefly, still did not warrant a letter of suspension from LCG. But I don't care now, cause my eyes have been open after 24 years, sooooo.......And, I don't want to discuss the Civil war on this thread.......
Ray W Smith said...
"Well, that was our disagreement, His view was the war was caused by slavery, but I know that was not the true reason for the first shot fired at fort sumpter. I took American history in college and I know the war was the war for southern independence, also known as the war of northern aggression, and the war for states rights, MR Breaux (him being form the south and has a masters degree in history, should know that but he disagrees with me, so be it. I told him to read the inaugural address Abraham Lincoln did on March 4, 1861 (excerpt, New York Tribune news paper, March 4, 1861), and he would see for himself that slavery was not the cause of the war or the first shot to be fired, but he didn't want to go there, so why not go there if it warrants a suspension, then why not go there and get is straightened out? loll"
May 20, 2017 at 1:23 PM
"Well Anon, it's natural biology. RCM thought having normal sexual desires (which includes fantasizing about the opposite sex) was some sort of unnatural lust, which is a rather prudish belief if you ask me."
No he did not think it was unnatural lust. He thought it was the carnal man (i.e. natural lust) that we had to overcome. It amazes me that people who were in the WCG could miss that point. Often we were told we must overcome the flesh. Often we were told we were carnal--made of flesh and subject to the pulls of the flesh. The teaching was that this was done by God to give us something to fight against so we would develop character.
Sometimes I think I was the only one who wasn't sleeping at services.
People are trying to debunk theology they never understood, like all that nonsense about how they never believed in grace or faith.
If the sordid tales on here are true (and it would be stupid to take the word of many people on here at face value) it sounds like rod grossed people out. That would be because describing sin is disgusting because sin itself is disgusting.
I don't know whether the ladies also got some mileage out of it in their dorms, or missed out on the fun.
One of the saddest things I have seen as an LCG attendee is the way HQ warps good people. I'm thinking now of one minister's wife who, when her husband was "in the field", would walk out on RCM DVD sermons when old Spanky started talking graphically about sex and about rape and violence and other topics just not appropriate for families with children. She even complained to HQ.
Sadly as soon as her husband was moved to HQ, she started just sitting there and taking it during Sabbath services when RCM would make disgusting comments that would offend the women and cause the mothers to have to explain some very uncomfortable things to their young children. If she had had the courage to get up and leave, she might have been able to make a difference. Instead, she joined the side of the abusers because it was now good for her husband.
I only come here to read Connie's comments....
I know that many here are anti-ACOG. I expect your "all ACOG's are evil comments" so go ahead.... but,
For those LCG members reading this, I want you to know that COGWA is a viable option for you when you get sick of the tyranny that is only going to get worse under Gerald Weston.
I jumped ship after LCG's "upgrades" a few years back and life is so much better. Instead of hearing the same recycled, boring, uninspired sermons we get uplifting sermons on a variety of topics (as opposed to LCG's focus on government and obedience to LCG).
COGWA is doing a work that is at least equal to LCGs.
You're allowed to have your own opinions. Private Bible studies aren't against the law.
There are other options. You don't need to stay in a corrupt, tyrannical church.
To Ray
I 100% believe your story. LCG is notorious for kicking people out for the dumbest of reasons.
Silly me, I would think that a minister would try to be a light to those he feels are going astray. Not in LCG. They just cast you out and wipe there boots never looking back.
LCG ministers are notorious for believing they can assess repentance. In their minds they are the gate keepers of the Kingdom.
Did you know that Dan Hall's daughter and son-in-law were among the famous LCG "Book of Enoch" private Bible study group? Yet, they weren't asked to leave. Why? Because they are related to Dan Hall! It was a clear cut case of favoritism plain and simple.
LCG has different rules for different people. You obviously either didn't make large enough offerings OR you didn't have family/friends high enough in the food chain to save your butt.
Another Anon wrote:
"No he did not think it was unnatural lust. He thought it was the carnal man (i.e. natural lust) that we had to overcome. It amazes me that people who were in the WCG could miss that point. Often we were told we must overcome the flesh. Often we were told we were carnal--made of flesh and subject to the pulls of the flesh. The teaching was that this was done by God to give us something to fight against so we would develop character."
Natural or unnatural is actually not the point, Anon. - he taught that human sexual desires were bad, bad, bad.
Masturbation, bad. Sexual fantasizing, bad. Watching porn, bad. Homosexuality, bad.
Doesn't matter the theological reasoning he used (we are carnal, have to overcome, fight against it, blah blah blah), he simply turned a pleasurable thing into something to be ashamed of or shunned.
I remember reading a piece on the PT site a long time ago where the writer said that in his group, Meredith was referred to as Gods Apostle of Masturbation because he never could get through a lecture without bringing the topic up somehow. It was a funny read.
5.50PM
The cattle rustling begins before they have even buried Rods corpse.
Come to my church cause it's better? Isn't that wicked capitalist competition?
"Natural or unnatural is actually not the point, Anon. - he taught that human sexual desires were bad, bad, bad."
So, what is actually the point? Just finding some way to bash Meredith, accurate or not? He did not teach it the way you say he did. What he taught was that there was sinful sex and unsinful sex because that is what the Bible says. Sounds like a lot of the things he did which were so awful to some is just taking the Bible literally regarding sex. I think you know that, but bashing people is more important to many on here than the facts are.
The propensity of so many to distort reality is strong and clear evidence that the human race is probably a lost cause and not worth saving.
True Bread wrote above:
"I only come here to read Connie's comments...."
MY RESPONSE-
And I only come here to read your comments about you reading my comments!
Anon 5:50's glowing comments about cogwa are quite unknowing, actually. The only work cogwa does is providing a good lifestyle for the good old texas boys, as opposed to LCG's public proclaiming of their version of the truth. Whether we agree with LCG or not, they are making an attempt to "reach the world." Anon states, in what is a self-fulfilling prophecy, "You don't need to stay in a corrupt, tyrannical church." My experiences with cogwa from the start show them to be one of the worst of the ilk, from their dubious founding upon slander and lies to the bullying and tyranny that continue from the elitist clan. All would be prudent to steer clear of the hypocrisies of the cogwadians.
Connie,
I thought i was your true bread.
Tarzan
To Anonymous, Well, I don't care anyway. 24 years it took for me to see the truth, now I do, and it has set me free. I don't ever intend on returning to non of the so called COG. I can read my bible at home, and I don't have to send any organization money to tell me God Loves Me, lol.
Seriously? People still want to pretend to believe that sinners will make it? There is reward and there is punishment. You get one other the other depending in your behavior and character. The demons have faith too, but they are still demons.
We're all sinners pal. Even if you keep 67 passovers and pay 3rth tithe. As a former WCG and Global member, I had to read Galatians about 500 times before I finally got that old covenant cult belief system out of my head. Saved by grace thru the faith of Jesus. Period.
to anonymous;
lolllllll, here you go, read for yourself;
https://hwarmstrong.com/ray-smith.htm
We're all sinners pal.
We all sin but we are not all sinners. The bible makes that distinction. Clearly you never learned much about your bible.
Anon 9:30 PM, you wrote: "...Both Herb and Joe Snr were pathological liers and self serving rule riggers..."
Have you ever lied? Sinned? They sinned...and so have you and I. The wages of sin is death. They died. So will you and I, but we have not seen the end of the matter for them or us.
I will admit I learned a lot more about the Bible from HWA than I did from JWT senior. Both HWA and JWT senior did what they did, even with the "man of sin" messing around within the "temple of God," and then they died. Wages paid! You and I have yet to pay the wages for the sins in our lives, but we still have not seen the end of the matter for them and us...unless you believe the following, among other similar verses:
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Cor 5:19
And that world includes HWA, JWT senior, you and me.
You say that I failed to “…to point to a law of nature or law of God to prove your accreditation rule.…”
It’s not my rule. It was the rule of HWA and JWT senior within the WCG.
Returning to your statement about liers, you wrote: "...Another one of their 'rules' is that members cannot qualify for salvation unless they come to church services and allow themselves to be bossed around by gestapo ministers..."
There are no scriptures backing up that qualifying for salvation as you wrote there.
"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began," 2 Timothy 1:9
And that salvation is for HWA, JWT senior, you, me, all human beings, but we've not seen the end of that matter. And that salvation is not for Satan and his angels, nor that "man of sin" that has been messing around in the temple (2 Thess 2:3-4) of God for approximately 2,000 years now, but again...
Time will tell...
John
Anonymous said:
"We all sin but we are not all sinners. The bible makes that distinction. Clearly you never learned much about your bible."
I'm sorry, but the logic doesn't follow.
We all sin therefore we are all sinners.
Jesus alone never sinned.
He alone of all mankind was sinless.
Therefore, He alone is not a sinner.
Rcm and his ilk have kept my mother in law in spiritual darkness. A church devoid of mercy and grace. Sad for the guy's family. But, he will have to answer for his misgivings. May the grace and mercy of Jesus rescue more and more from these Armstrong influenced cults and their old testament legalistic fetishes.
Yea, it's been almost two years, I'm glad. I do churCh at home now.
I do churCh at home now.
I have never been suspended from UCG, I just stopped attending in 2014 because of the hipocracy I saw in ministers who worked in the local congregations, and I did not want to be a part of it. After 21 years, it was time to leave.
Debbie H
My husband is a 31year member of this dangerous cult, I am not.We have been
Married 11 yrs and he is always talking his Bible shit. That feast crap cost over two grand per year.People are nuts to throw their money away on stupid shit. Part of my family is Jewish and do no do this shit.
February 2017, Ed Breaux is the minister. The letters were posted on the painful truth eebsite., James posted them.
2 years ago, Ed Breaux minister, Laurel, Mississippi congregation. You can see letters on pianfultruth website.
RCM was a practicing liar and many others at lcg hq knew that also--including prominent ministers who actually admitted it to me and others in private. RCM had multiple outbursts of anger and rage--once he said himself that he didn't think a demon made him do it... he was just in a bad mood. He made racist comments to many and loved money and power far more than God. I knew him very well... he used to call me to pick him up for lunch--I spent literally hundreds of hours privately with him... just him and me. As my position at lcg hq was a prominent one for several years. So I knew RCM better than 99.9% of lcg members and better than most lcg hq employees also. He was a sad and pathetic person who once even told me some pretty bad things about his own wife--Sheryl. He told me that sometimes he basically regretted marrying her. He told me horrible things about Wallace Smith--because he was jealous that Wally's TW programs got better responses than his. I remember thinking... this is the leader of the Church??? Something is seriously wrong here!!! Well... he is dead now and his reign of evil is over.
Well, I know I have been gone from LCG for three years now, I do church at home now. I never personally had any problems with RM, as a matter of fact I enjoyed be his sermons. I enjoy Wallace Smith sermons as well. My problem was with a local minister, ( Edward Breaux), he and I seemed to have different opinions on what caused the silver war, and Facebook postings. You can find it here, Ray W Smith, " suspended from Living Church of God, blog on the www.thepainfultruth.com
Yep, I see people still commenting on my statements, lolll go for it........I still do church at home and watch online services with COG groups, different ones.
I see the Laodicean church age is here.
Yep, I see people still commenting on my statements, lolll go for it........I still do church at home and watch online services with COG groups, different ones.
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